Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

One thing to keep in mind is that by this time, if your opponent has been paying attention to it, all of his Australian infantry squads should be done upgrading to the current best standard - what's it called, AMF 42 or something? There will still be units filling out for a while to come, but all the militia should be gone by now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

How is it stated so nicely in Shattered Sword?
The Japanese faild to follow the principle to use the maximum available power when it was needed.

Go one by one, but make sure you gain something worth the delay. That means: Make sure you let the better prepared enemy forces not get away!

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ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

One thing to keep in mind is that by this time, if your opponent has been paying attention to it, all of his Australian infantry squads should be done upgrading to the current best standard - what's it called, AMF 42 or something? There will still be units filling out for a while to come, but all the militia should be gone by now.

AIF42. By end Feb the Allied can upgrade all his CMF and CMF Militia squads if he knows how to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

The Brit CVs should start leaving in July or so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I would, if that takes out Jap CVs.
Who cares about some PP, when enemy Capital Ships can be sunk?

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ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I would, if that takes out Jap CVs.
Who cares about some PP, when enemy Capital Ships can be sunk?

One of the biggest parts of the war I've been working on is how to understand my opponent, and his potential for action. So far he has been mostly cautious with occasional feisty moments of surprise.

Through my brash use of the fleet early on I'd like to give him pause whenever he considers an operation and to keep his best assets out of harm's way until he is stronger. The current Mini-KB attack on Perth, the second strike in several weeks, is slightly beyond the line of what should be safe right now. This would make me think he wouldn't be comfortable leaving the British CVs at Columbo, which would be the best place to be able to react to a move into the Indian Ocean, but is also vulnerable to a move from around Sumatra. I do know that at least 1-2 of the US CVs are in the Pacific, but I haven't seen a British CV anywhere yet during the game.

Based on comments by Jocke in our emails I know he is scrambling to get enough units into place and has bemoaned the lack of PPs several times. I assume that if the withdrawal was soon he would be preparing by keeping the CV in a place where it could easily get back to a port to save the points.

Still, if I do go for the Atolls in the IO I will set a sub wall around the area and have search on AVs a good distance from the invasion fleet and the Mini-KB. It's still a month away, so things may be very different by then.

Another thing to consider is that with Junyo back into shape by then (I think) the Mini-KB should be strong enough to do well against the British. It has at full capacity: 88 A6M2, 54 B5N2, and 15 D3A1. The main worry would be CVs coming unexpectedly through the wormhole.

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What do you hope to gain with Diego and Addu?

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ORIGINAL: obvert

HMAS Vendetta. Hopefully we've seen the last of this ship. She's been a menace to the subs in the area for months.

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

HMAS Vendetta. Hopefully we've seen the last of this ship. She's been a menace to the subs in the area for months.

One 250 kg could sink her, but I wouldn't count on it. Allied damage control is just too good.

quote:

Understand your concerns. Couple things to realize about SLs.

1 The SLs relate to game troop density, not IRL troop density. IRL troop densities are very different; about 2 to 3 times game troop densities. So IRL troop density concerns don’t have much relevance to the algorithm.

2 The SLs aren’t hard limits. If either side goes over the limit what happens is they experience greater fatigue and disruption (random 1 to 5 for each unit) and, most importantly, eat supply at a higher rate; for each 10% over the stack limit, supply usage increases by an additional 20%. Obviously, the larger the SL for a hex, the larger the unit that can cause an overstack and begin the supply penalty.

There’s lots of headroom, in the vast majority of China hexes, for major battles with very large formations, on both sides. There’s generally room for 3 J-Divs and supporting combat troops (Arty, Tanks, and Engs), facing 4 to 5 Chinese Corps (about 60-80k per side, per hex). The only thing limited is the Megastack.

The SLs try to take account of the 3:1 ratio. In a fully occupied defended hex, it’s gonna be a bitch for an attacker to get a decent ratio for more than a few turns because of the limits. But then that’s how it was, yeah? So I don’t think Japan is gonna run rampant. If China chooses well and defends correctly, results in that theater might show up a bit closer to nominal: and an SL limited ‘difficult’ terrain hex will swing even more to the defender’s advantage.

No advantage to Arty. Believe me Joel, that’s the first thing we tested. Frankly, arty works like it’s supposed to if it’s used as it was.

Armor is helpful, but we’ve been using Babes where the whole armor thing has been redone. Haven’t seen anything where armor provides any significant advantage. In highly disadvantageous terrain, it is proportionally disadvantaged.

But, of course, all this is predicated on the players being righteous. And those are the very players the SLs were done for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

This is my reply to your opponent's inquire about using stacking limits with existing games. Just so you known what I said.

Jocke,

The first few turns with the new Pwhex files (there are three found in link below) was adjustment for both sides. Since I'm playing Japan, I had my "Death Star" one hex to the west of Changsha in China at Siangtan (95k limit with 149k actual). The first turn found my Allied opponent pulling out of hex totally and the AI gave me possession. When I looked at the base afterwards, ALL my supply with the troops was destroyed. OUCH!! However, the next turn showed the units refilling with supply, but that was a surprise.

My Allied opponent had his "Death Star" one hex SE from Chittagong. He had 12 divisions and 9 armored units in hex. He attacked the turn before and the turn after the Pwhex. He lost a lot of vehicles the turn after. I was already in the process of pulling back a hex as 3 of 5 divisions need to be rebuilt.

On my last turn, I was trying to send a partially rebuilt division from Cox Bazar into the hex directly east and was unable to give orders. The hex due east of Cox is still overstacked, so the move was not allowed. It looks like you cannot deliberately add more troops to a hex that is overstacked. More learning, I think.

Overall, I don't think I'll go back to playing a game without these stacking limits. Yes, there will be some period of adjustment, but I will need to become better with tactics and use mobility to achieve my goals. I will need to experiment with how much I can overstack a hex and deal with the extra disruption in combat.

Michael

https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/map-and-art/stacking-limit-data



This is from JWE:

quote:

Understand your concerns. Couple things to realize about SLs.

1 The SLs relate to game troop density, not IRL troop density. IRL troop densities are very different; about 2 to 3 times game troop densities. So IRL troop density concerns don’t have much relevance to the algorithm.

2 The SLs aren’t hard limits. If either side goes over the limit what happens is they experience greater fatigue and disruption (random 1 to 5 for each unit) and, most importantly, eat supply at a higher rate; for each 10% over the stack limit, supply usage increases by an additional 20%. Obviously, the larger the SL for a hex, the larger the unit that can cause an overstack and begin the supply penalty.

There’s lots of headroom, in the vast majority of China hexes, for major battles with very large formations, on both sides. There’s generally room for 3 J-Divs and supporting combat troops (Arty, Tanks, and Engs), facing 4 to 5 Chinese Corps (about 60-80k per side, per hex). The only thing limited is the Megastack.

The SLs try to take account of the 3:1 ratio. In a fully occupied defended hex, it’s gonna be a bitch for an attacker to get a decent ratio for more than a few turns because of the limits. But then that’s how it was, yeah? So I don’t think Japan is gonna run rampant. If China chooses well and defends correctly, results in that theater might show up a bit closer to nominal: and an SL limited ‘difficult’ terrain hex will swing even more to the defender’s advantage.

No advantage to Arty. Believe me Joel, that’s the first thing we tested. Frankly, arty works like it’s supposed to if it’s used as it was.

Armor is helpful, but we’ve been using Babes where the whole armor thing has been redone. Haven’t seen anything where armor provides any significant advantage. In highly disadvantageous terrain, it is proportionally disadvantaged.

But, of course, all this is predicated on the players being righteous. And those are the very players the SLs were done for.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Guys, just in case it isn't clear from JWE's quotation: There is no prohibition against moving units into an over stacked hex. NY59Giants ran into some kind of movement bug. You are allowed to over stack as massively as you choose, and the game engine will penalize you accordingly.

My opponents and I have been hit with the penalty at various times and at various levels. The kind of over stacking that NY59Giants mentioned will drain all supplies within range like a black hole if you let it continue!

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

It's a bit too bad you can't move troops through a hex that is overstacked as this could limit rotating troops in and out to wear down determined defenders unless there were multiple routes available. But I guess this mirrors real conditions better where terrain and pinch points were actually very important.

(Any implementation of this will be too late to help the Allies much in China after my opponent revealed he actually has more men now in China than the total number of supply there! While I have been wary of attacking big stacks, this is a useful piece of information to let me try one out once all troops are in place).

Do the levels of development of a base give it a greater stacking limit or are they fixed amounts?

Another question. Would this make arty less useful in low stacking limit hexes where you'd want to have as much AV per unit as possible?

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Guys, just in case it isn't clear from JWE's quotation: There is no prohibition against moving units into an over stacked hex. NY59Giants ran into some kind of movement bug. You are allowed to over stack as massively as you choose, and the game engine will penalize you accordingly.

My opponents and I have been hit with the penalty at various times and at various levels. The kind of over stacking that NY59Giants mentioned will drain all supplies within range like a black hole if you let it continue!

Aha. Thanks. So it's possible but risky in most situations. Thanks.

How have you found the use of artillery units changed by these limits? I would think it would be hard to choose to use up a portion of the stacking limit with a non-AV type of unit in a hex with strong defense. Do you think it's still worth it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

It's a bit too bad you can't move troops through a hex that is overstacked as this could limit rotating troops in and out to wear down determined defenders unless there were multiple routes available. But I guess this mirrors real conditions better where terrain and pinch points were actually very important.

(Any implementation of this will be too late to help the Allies much in China after my opponent revealed he actually has more men now in China than the total number of supply there! While I have been wary of attacking big stacks, this is a useful piece of information to let me try one out once all troops are in place).

Do the levels of development of a base give it a greater stacking limit or are they fixed amounts?

Another question. Would this make arty less useful in low stacking limit hexes where you'd want to have as much AV per unit as possible?

Been using stacking limits in two PBMs for months. Totally love them - how could we have ever played without them - that's how good they are overall.

There is no prohibition on moving into or through an over stacked hex; he must have run into an unrecognized movement bug (I've seen one or two posted in Tech Support).

The stacking level (I forget the precise term and don't have the game open) for a unit is different from the load cost. In many case they are similar, but sometimes a good deal different. If memory serves me well: most artillery units seem to have a fairly low stacking value.

Each individual hex (with or without a base) got it's own stacking limit based on factors that they mentioned in threads on the subject. Basically (from my observations):

- The more open the terrain the higher the limit.
- The more developed the hex the higher the limit (roads, agriculture, towns & cities and such).
- The presence of waterways raises the limit.
- Small islands and atolls got their stacking limits adjusted as well, all that I have noticed changed went down from the stock limits. I don't recall but 6,000 might still be the lowest limit they assigned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The one caveat is to look at where you might be over stacked before you switch over, else the nasty "supply black hole" surprise!

And I just realized that exceptions to the "more open" the terrain is the higher the limit would be the desert types. Open, yes. Generally hospitable, no!

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Give yourselves a date like June 15th for the switch over. That will allow both of you to make moves now to get under the limits or at least enough so you don't end up being in as bad a shape as I ended up.