Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! - 5/18/2012 7:39:40 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		I hope I don't rape the thread intent too badly with this, but ...

Remember discussing this a couple years ago in context of the Japanese perspective from Senshi Sosho. Invading Australia would be a nightmare. Weren't enough troops (would have required 12 Divisions, minimum) but most important, there wasn't enough shipping. Planning schedules said 1,500,000 tons (at least) to keep things going for a descent on OZ. Since the Empire only had 3,000,000 tons, that would have been painful.

The IJA affirmatively recognized it would be a slippery slope, "Reflecting on the bitter experience of the China Incident, the chances are high that an invasion would eventually extend over the whole of the Australian continent." (Ugaki). According to MajGen Tanaka Shin'ichi, "Even if the Army could supply the required strength for the proposal to invade Australia, there are grave fears that the problem of supplying shipping would destroy the fundamental basis for executing the war." Tanaka, Tanaka Shin'ichi Shosho no nisshi no motozuku shuki. Some of the guys in the IJA Division of IJGHQ weren't all that stupid. They implicitly recognized that the entire Eastern coast of the sub-continent would have to be conquered and that was simply impossible.

So if you don't want your entire body ground into hamburger, don't stick your winkie into the wood-chipper.

Darwin wasn't the best place, either to invade from, or invade to; just too isolated. But it did confront Timor/Ambon, so if was a backwater, it was an important one, nevertheless.

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 31
RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! - 5/18/2012 8:35:41 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Actually you brought the thread back on topic.

_____________________________


(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 32
RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! - 5/18/2012 11:46:45 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

We were lucky to have such capable men....


To me, this has always been the bottom line on WW2.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 33
RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! - 5/19/2012 5:40:58 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline 		Was reading here about invading OZ and questioning whether the US/OZ pipeline could be severed or effectively interdicted. A really good question. Did an Ops Problem for one of the groups a couple years ago on this issue and it struck me that it might be a nice small map scenario for the general playing public. It would be in the right time frame, where things were pretty much equal, and gives the Japanese player an excellent opportunity to win.

Did Operation SF, right out of the IJGHQ playbook - volume, chapter and verse. Might be right up a bunch of alleys. In the real world, the Japanese recognized many things. They were not stupid. The IJA and IJN had a disconnect about stuff, but it was a disconnect in a manner that we Westerners don't quite resonate with. IJA and IJN were arguing terminology. But in Japanese, terminology has implications. IJA was arguing for 'consolidation', IJN was arguing for 'expansion'. There's like 70 pages of conference notes, in Senshi Sosho, for this Op alone, resulting in a 'compromise'. Woof !!

Ok, so did all this stuff into a scenario for a Babes group. Was a freaking success and led to an interesting resultant SWPac posture for the subsequent Ops Problem.

Some initial details are on the Scen Design sub-forum. If anyone is interested in pursuing this, would like to hear from you.

Oh, shoot, here's the map.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JWE -- 5/19/2012 5:42:57 PM >

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 34
RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! - 5/19/2012 9:33:22 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Lady Bracknell: “My nephew, you seem to be displaying signs of triviality.”

Jack: “On the contrary, Aunt Augusta, I’ve now realized for the first time in my life the vital Importance of Being Earnest.”


_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 35
RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! - 5/19/2012 9:48:20 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior
“On the contrary, Aunt Augusta, I’ve now realized for the first time in my life the vital Importance of Being Earnest.”






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Home of DaBabes

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 36
RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! - 5/19/2012 10:06:22 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus



Yes. Darwin and the entire SRA area around it are overimportant in the game because of the way the abstracted logistics work and the overgenerous SPS values therein. When MacArthur was traveling through Northern Oz to where he'd end up in Brisbane, he saw for himself the logistical nightmare that would have been trying to stage a major offensive through Northern Australia into the SRA which is why the SWPac theater eventually opted to strike Japan through New Guniea.

In addition to being sparcely populated with few developed industries, even the rail gauge between N. Oz and SouthE. Oz was different. The situation in AE was improved recently by map changes which make Darwin hard to supply overland but this can be easily solved with a few big supply convoys. After that one just needs to land at any of a dozen SRA points, all with generous SPS values and quickly turn them into major air and/or sea bases.

Some people (including myself and Treespider) try to further represent the logistical and geographical difficulties of this Theater by greatly lowering SPS values for Darwin as well as the surrounding bases.

As for real life. The Australian government was set to cede all of N. Oz to the Japanese if they had too. The heart of the country was S. Oz in terms of economic and people resources. The "Brisbane Line" may have had some hysterial to it, but it also represented a realistic plan by a government with a limited size military to concentrate on the most important areas. Oz being as immense as it is, the loss of Darwin would have been a major morale blow and further secured the SRA but would have changed little in the SW Pacific Theater other than to drain away some land forces which might have slowed down the buildup to offensive power a bit.


pre-War Darwin





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 37
RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! - 5/20/2012 3:13:35 AM   
Disco Duck


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
Status: offline 		Apparently they built some oil storage tunnels that never worked.


Burrowed deep beneath the city is one of the most interesting historical sites in Darwin. The World War II Oil Storage Tunnels were built during World War II due to the vulnerability of standard storage tanks to aerial attacks. This innovative approach to conserve oil was a significant part of Australia’s defence strategy.

Of the eight oil tunnels originally planned, only five were completed, however delays in obtaining suitable materials hampered construction and the failure to properly seal the tunnels from water meant that they were never used for their initial purpose. Two of the tunnels are open to the public and feature a collection of photographs of Darwin during World War II. Guided tours operate daily.

http://en.travelnt.com/about-nt/share-our-story/historic-darwin.aspx

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 38
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> RE: Darwin, the importance of being Earnest! Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.984