Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 12:38:18 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

Here is an amazing amount of work that Annagil put into creating an index for this monster. Thanks, Annagil! Enjoy!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Annagil

Since it has been years and I'm getting confused, I've decided to re-read the whole thread and make an index for this while doing it, listing the main management posts, daily reports and interesting, little know, game mechanics.
With 88 pages of posts, it will take a while, tho, so this will be a work in progress, where I will give update announcements with a link to this post. That is, if Mike agrees.

Thread Index

Pre-game
■■■OOB analysis
■■■Resources logistic plans
■■■Merchant navy analysis
■■■Convoy planning
■■■The Singapore-Japan oil train
■■■Ship conversions and use
■■■Air power analysis
■■■Aircraft production
■■■Oil shuffling in the SRA
■■■Pilots' training
■■■Ships conversions and use 2
■■■Aircraft production 2
■■■]Engine production
■■■Factories and shypyards upgrades
■■■Ports and airfields upgrades
■■■Fleet arrangement
■■■Air HQ placement

Game - 1941
Pearl Harbour (after restart)
8 Dec 41
9 Dec 41
10 Dec 41
11 Dec 41
12 Dec 41
13 Dec 41
14 Dec 41
15 Dec 41 - fall of Wake
■■■Aircraft and Engine production 1
16 Dec 41 - fall of Adak
■■■Engines and Airframes - by SuluSea
■■■Upgrades relative to airframes - by SuluSea
17 Dec 41
18 Dec 41 - fall of Hong Kong and Brunei
19 Dec 41 - fall of Mersing
20 Dec 41
21 Dec 41
22 Dec 41
23 Dec 41
24 Dec 41
25 Dec 41 - fall of Rabaul
26 Dec 41
27 Dec 41
■■■On JAAF BF radars - by awaw
28 Dec 42 - CV Soryu torpedoed
29 Dec 41
30 Dec 41 - CV Hiryu torpedoed
31 Dec 41
■■■End of Dec 41 Stats
■■■Ship losses for Dec 41
■■■Airframe and engine production 2

1942
1 Jan 42
2 Jan 42 - fall of Clark Field
3 Jan 42 - Hiryu torpedoed and sunk
4 Jan 42
5 Jan 42
6 Jan 42 - fall of Guam
■■■CM conversion table
7 Jan 42
8 Jan 42
9 Jan 42
10 Jan 42
11 Jan 42
12 Jan 42
13 Jan 42
■■■Airlift Capacity
■■■On the Helen-Sally and aircraft R&D - by PaxMondo
■14 Jan 42 (and aircraft R&D)
■■■Aircraft R&D and upgrade paths
15 Jan 42
16 Jan 42
17 Jan 42
18 Jan 42
19 Jan 42
20 Jan 42
21 Jan 42
22 Jan 42
23 Jan 42
24 Jan 42
25 Jan 42
26 Jan 42
27 Jan 42
28 Jan 42
29 Jan 42
30 Jan 42
31 Jan 42

1 Feb 42
2 Feb 42
3 Feb 42
■■■On training ships in port
4 Feb 42
5 Feb 42 - Action off Merak
6 Feb 42
7 Feb 42 - Strike on Soerabaja
8 Feb 42 - fall of Rangoon
9 Feb 42 - invasion of Sumatra
10 Feb 42
11 Feb 42
12 Feb 42 - invasion of Java
14 Feb 42
■■■On HQ capabilities- by ny59giants and Correction
15 Feb 42
■■■On repair priorities - by Hanzberger
16 Feb 42
17 Feb 42 - air action off Darwin
18 Feb 42
19 Feb 42
20 Feb 42
21 Feb 42
22 Feb 42
23 Feb 42
■■■On sub deployement
■■■On carrier air composition
24 Feb 42
25 Feb 42
26 Feb 42
27 Feb 42
■■■On ship utilization by class
28 Feb 42

Well, things have finally worked out and I'm ready to start my PBEM with my long time opponent, tc464. Ted and I go way back to 2005 when I returned from a deployment and started our first WitP PBEM. I think it was patch 1 or 2. We played through spring of 43 when AE came out so we decided to start again. That one continued until January of this year, when I was taken away for most of the year. Shortly after I returned my computer died and with it our game. We got a Mac and I lost my job, so I didn't want to spend money on Windows 7 until I found new employment. That just happened today so I thought I'd start my AAR. I plan on getting Windows 7 on Black Friday and will get things running. So, I expect to spend most of a week getting the first turn going and talk my way through it as I did before.

Ted is a very challenging and fun opponent. He does things out of the blue so I have to be on guard always. He definitely makes the game fun. Our house rules are few. I'll list them later. We plan on using the beta, so we'll have all the fun new things in play as well.

PDU will be on, so all of you who complained to me about it being off last time will have to find something else to complain to me about.

As always, thoughts and input are always welcome.

Happy Thanksgiving Day!

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 11/8/2017 9:26:42 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 12:41:30 AM

obvert

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Excited to see the result of all of your planning. Good luck Mike, and thanks for all of your help. I'll be checking in and giving whatever small help I can.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 1:47:01 AM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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Give 'em hell, Major Mike-san...

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 2:32:15 AM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline

Sub-freakin'-scribed!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 3:46:45 AM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
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You do know that you can only ask for very, very, very limited feedback on economics.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 3:51:19 AM

John 3rd

Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline

Good Luck. What Scenario?

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 3:56:06 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

What do you mean limited? How do you think I learn the economics stuff? I just remember what you guys tell me.

Scenario 1 John.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 4:01:19 AM

ny59giants

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I still have the spreadsheets of the different transports that you put out when AE first came out and what ship types would be used to go from various bases to Japan. You were the economic 'guru' when AE first came out. Have you given the title to someone else??

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 4:37:44 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

I'm flattered, that's all. Guess I should start babbling about what my plans are. Here goes. Keep in mind that my planning has been without the game. Just my spreadsheets and a copy of the map.

Here's the easy part. Historically, I've had horrible luck taking the Philippines and Singapore in a timely manner. Here's the plan this time around.

I didn't keep a handle on supply in Malaya last game and I ran out. I figure it added 2-3 weeks on when I took Singapore because I had to ship supply from Japan to get the attack going again. This time I'm going to send 150k supply from Japan to Malaya as soon as I can get the xAKs together.

I'm in no real hurry to take the Philippines. I believe in the past that I had more combat power there than I needed to siege Bataan, but not enough to take it outright without depleting Allied supply. This time I won't make that mistake.

I plan on taking Singkawang as I did last game initially. From there, I'm going to go to Tobali (I took Billiton last time) as an air base to isolate Palembang and start the destruction of the Dutch air force. Elements of the 21 Air Flotilla will go there, along with elements of the 3 Air Division. Instead of taking Ambon early on (which I neglected to do) I'm going for Kendari. That has the same size air field as Ambon and a better port. Elements of the 23 Air Flotilla will stage to that area to isolate that part of the map.

My main ground focus will be on Malaya and the liberation of Singapore as soon as possible. I am allocating 8 full divisions to that end.

Here is the OOB showing only the main infantry units. Note that the support units from that army will accompany the divisions.

Philippines

14 Army
16 Division
48 Division
65 Brigade

Note that as soon as the Allied army is isolated in Bataan, one division along with the army's armor will transfer to Mindinao to liberate that island. Davao is an important base for me as discussed below.

Burma

15 Army
55 Division
33 Division

This is the historical force that attacked Burma. The Burma invasion will begin immediately and will receive armor from 25 Army as soon as Malaya is liberated. I don't plan on using the armor in the siege of Singapore.

Malaya

25 Army
Imperial Guards Division
5 Division
18 Division
56 Division

16 Army
38 Division
2 Division

Southern Area Army (SAA)
4 Division
21 Division

Note that, other than small battalion sized units, the only units available are the 21 Mixed Brigade and the 4 Regiment. The 21st will be used for SIngkawang and then Tobali and the 4th has yet to be allocated.

I plan to make use of the SNLFs and Naval Guards to take the important industrial bases and the company sized units to take the un-garrisoned bases as quickly as possible.

PPs

My initial use of PPs will be to replace some CV captains. Then, I plan on activating the Gds Bde (Japan) and 90 Regiment (Kwantung) for SE Fleet for the invasion of Rabaul and Pt. Moresby and then 20 Division (Korea) for SAA for the invasion of Palembang (along with the 21 Mixed Bde. That won't happen until January, unfortunately. I'll probably activate regiments as soon as I can and move them into position as soon as possible. I may invade Palembang in late December if I can get the 3 regiments of the 20 Division there in time. I plan on using the 23 and 21 kt xAPs for the movement.

Air Force

IJNAF:

21 Air Flotilla - movement as quickly as possible to Tobali for isolation of southern Summatra and northern Java. This force will remain in the southern SRA.

22 Air Flotilla - This force will be in the Burma theater, primarily at Pt. Blair, to defend against the RN.

23 Air Flotilla - This force will spend some time in the SRA before moving to the SE Fleet area.

24 Air Flotilla - 4 Fleet area.

IJAAF:

3 Air Division - This force will be primarily in the Palembang - Java area with a small slice in Burma. As the SRA is liberated, most of this Air Division will move to the Burma theater.

5 Air Division - This force will remain in the Philippines until it is liberated and the Allied army is destroyed. At that point it will move to the southern SRA for defense.

China Expeditionary - This force will remain in China. (Duh)

Training Air Units

IJNAF:

China Area Fleet (China & Formosa)
12 Air Flotilla (Japan)
13 Air Flotilla (Japan)

IJAAF:
2 Air Division (Manchuoko)
2 Air Army (Manchuoko)
51 Air Regiment (Japan)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 4:53:24 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

Hubs

Here's how I plan on getting the good stuff from the SRA to Japan.

Java and Summatra will ship to Singapore. From there to Takao. From Taihoku to Kagoshima.

Northern Borneo to Takao, then as above.

Balikpapan will ship all fuel directly to Truk. In the last game, I never had a good reserve of fuel at Truk. I don't plan on having that problem this game.

Tarakan and the small oil producing islands will ship to Davao (was Babeldaob last game). Then from Davao to Japan. Davao is easier to defend with more airfields nearby. It's critical that I take Cagayan early to drive the B-17s out. They're a pain in the butt. That's why I'm allocating a division from 14 Army along with the 2 tank regiments to take Mindinao.

The 5 resource producing islands south of the Philippines will ship to Naga. Then, Manila to Takao.

Nauru and Ocean islands will ship to Truk and then to Japan.

China/Manchuoko/Korea (C/M/K) - Keijo and Fusan to Japan are the goals, but initially I'll ship resources from Pt. Arthur and Shanghai. No oil or fuel will be shipped out of C/M/K.

Sakhalin will ship to Sapporo and/or Wakkani. Then Hakodate to Ominato.

I think I have all the convoys identified by ship class, but I'll post that later. One thing I will say is that the small xAK(L)s are much more valuable that I originally thought. Many ports that must be used to move oil, fuel and resources are small. Using large ships at those ports slows this movement drastically.

More to come on the merchant fleet later.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 10:14:52 AM

PaxMondo

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Mike,

First off, congrats on the new job. Was not aware you had to undergo that stress. Second, welcome back to the land of AAR!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 11:03:42 AM

ny59giants

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IMO, you could easily divert one of those eight division from Malaya to take Palembang earlier as eight is too many troops there unless you are doing some form of the "Mersing Gambit." Then, divide in to its three combat commands. Southern Sumatra is easier to capture with the use of some fast moving armor/tank units along those trails.

Mindanao - I would land on those two bases (Oroquieta & Dumanquilas) on the western peninsula to isolate Zamboanga as this is the islands only source of supply. With those two bases captured, then any units he has at Zamboanga cannot retreat and are destroyed. The rest of the island is easy, but these make it go quicker.

Takao as a hub - I wonder if you were to capture southern China and gain control of those roads, would dropping off your Resources, Oil, and Fuel at Hong Kong be a better option?? Would the AI move it inland and you could pick it up from Shanghai to decrease your shipping time. I haven't tried this to known.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 11/24/2011 1:42:40 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 11:36:43 AM

Olorin

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From: Greece
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Hi, Mike, good luck to your game.
Question: Is Taihoku big enough to handle the load you are giving it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Takao as a hub - I wonder if you were to capture southern China and gain control of those roads, would dropping off your Resources, Oil, and Fuel at Hong Kong be a better option?? Would the AI move it inland and you could pick it up from Shanghai to decrease your shipping time. I have tried this to known.

I wonder about it too... it would be great if you could unload stuff at Hong Kong. The problem is, when you capture the roads connecting China with Vietnam, where will all the stuff go?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 11:45:02 AM

pws1225

Posts: 1166
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From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline

Welcome back Mike. It's good to see you posting again and starting another AAR. Like it or not, you are my JFB mentor on all things economic. I'm looking forward to following this one!

Regards, Paul

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 12:27:23 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Olorin

Hi, Mike, good luck to your game.
Question: Is Taihoku big enough to handle the load you are giving it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Takao as a hub - I wonder if you were to capture southern China and gain control of those roads, would dropping off your Resources, Oil, and Fuel at Hong Kong be a better option?? Would the AI move it inland and you could pick it up from Shanghai to decrease your shipping time. I have tried this to known.

I wonder about it too... it would be great if you could unload stuff at Hong Kong. The problem is, when you capture the roads connecting China with Vietnam, where will all the stuff go?

You can clear the roads/RR from Singers to Fusan. It will flow all the way, eventually. The savings when you do this are enormous and have big implications in the game.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 2:33:07 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

IMO, you could easily divert one of those eight division from Malaya to take Palembang earlier as eight is too many troops there unless you are doing some form of the "Mersing Gambit." Then, divide in to its three combat commands. Southern Sumatra is easier to capture with the use of some fast moving armor/tank units along those trails.

Mindanao - I would land on those two bases (Oroquieta & Dumanquilas) on the western peninsula to isolate Zamboanga as this is the islands only source of supply. With those two bases captured, then any units he has at Zamboanga cannot retreat and are destroyed. The rest of the island is easy, but these make it go quicker.

Takao as a hub - I wonder if you were to capture southern China and gain control of those roads, would dropping off your Resources, Oil, and Fuel at Hong Kong be a better option?? Would the AI move it inland and you could pick it up from Shanghai to decrease your shipping time. I haven't tried this to known.

I'm torn with pulling a division out of the Malaya OOB. If I do, it'll be one of the ones that start in Japan. Let me ponder that. I'm still gun-shy from how long it took me to take Singapore last game. I suspect it was the supply issue but I'm not sure.

Thanks for the tip on Mindinao. Noted.

I don't know if dropping resources, oil and fuel at Hong Kong would work. I think it's gamey though. Working the game engine. I won't do it. I can't see how the Japanese would get enough tankers (train and vehicle) to do it. I'll stick with TKs.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 3:02:05 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olorin

Hi, Mike, good luck to your game.
Question: Is Taihoku big enough to handle the load you are giving it?

Yeah, I think so. It's a 4/2 port and the destination is Kagoshima, which is 4/5. I'll increase both to 5, but even as a level 4 port, they can handle the following resource or fuel TFs of 10x Tohos and 2 Ansyu-C PBs. I have all the Tohos here, so I will have up to 5 TFs of them. Granted the xAK hauling fuel isn't very efficient but I don't think there are enough TKs in the inventory to haul all the oil and fuel back to Japan. In addition, I have allocated 4x 11,160 TKs to haul oil. I don't have the tonnage of them but it'll be either 1 or 2 TFs, escorted by Ansyu-Cs. I estimate the TKs can haul about 134k oil a month. I think the Tohos can haul all the fuel and resources but I have to work that out. I'm beginning to think the Manila resource convoys will ship directly to Japan. There's not much there so it's not that critical.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 3:04:04 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Thanks Paul. I'm looking forward to getting back into AE as well. It's been since January since I played.

Pax, you too?! Seems like all you guys are interested in hauling overland from Singapore to Fusan! What do you think? Is it gamey or not? Convince me to try it!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 5:13:13 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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The 51 xAPs will be used to move LCUs from the Home Islands to a hub near where the LCU destination will be. They will not be used in combat (hopefully). Given this, I do not see the need for many -t conversions.

Here's my intent on the xAK(L)s by class:

AK Yusen-S (10) - They're already AKs. They will remain AKs.

xAK Lima (46) - 6 will convert to AKV and 7 will convert to AKE leaving 33. Initially, they will form 3x TFs of 10 + 3 Ansyu-C PB. Two will be at Pt. Arthur and one at Shanghai. They will send resources to Japan and the Shanghai TF will move supply to China as needed. Hopefully, the Pt. Arthur TFs will be reassigned when the flow out of Keijo and Fusan becomes adequate.

xAK Yusen-N (56) - These are nice 15 kt cargos that have 300 liquid capacity. They will be used to haul between major ports. I'm not sure where I'll use them yet.

xAK Yusen-A (7) - Convert to AK.

xAK Kyushu (32) - These are the nice 18 kt cargos that have 300 liquid capacity. They are allocated to move resources/oil from Singapore to Takao.

xAK Aden (189) - These are the workhorses that will move resources/supply (and if needed, fuel) between major ports. Unfortunately, with their large capacity, they take a long time to load so they are relatively slow. Couple that with their 12 kt speed and it takes forever to get them somewhere and unloaded. We're stuck with a lot of them so they'll be used for normal movement of stuff and it'll just take more of them. *Sigh*

xAK Husimi (25) - Six will convert to AR and the remaining 19 to AK. There just aren't enough of them to go around.

xAK Akasi (57) - Four will convert to AD and the rest will be used between medium sized ports.

xAK Ehime (58) - Eleven (at least) will convert to AG and the remainder will be used between medium sized ports.

xAK Toho (53) - I like these guys. They aren't too big and their 14 kt speed makes them relatively quick. I'll use them in TFs of 10 ships to haul resources (and fuel if needed) between Taihoku and Kagoshima.

xAK Std-C (17) - All of this class will be converted to TKs. Lots more are in the reinforcement queue.

xAK Ansyu-C (54) - They will all be converted to PBs. With the 52 that start the war as PBs, I'll have over 100 of them. I suspect I'll need them. They have nice endurance (6000) and make nice ASW TFs as well as convoy escorts for 12 and 14 kt TFs. Their only down side (aside from their horrible starting experience levels) is that they are relatively large (2980 tons).

xAK Gozan (58) - This is the smallest of the xAK classes. Their slow speed (10 kts) is, in my opinion, countered by their low tonnage (2375 tons). This allows them to be used in small ports. I'm planning on using them on the Fusan-Fukuoka and Toyohara-Wakkani routes to move resources.

xAKL Miyati (59) - The largest of the xAKLs, they will haul resources for the most part. Right now I have 5 TFs of 5 Miyatis and 2 Kiso PBs to move resources from the 5 resource producing islands south of the Philippines to Naga. I haven't figured out the rest but you can count on it being something similar somewhere else.

xAKL Kasu-D (46) - These are my favorite xAKL class because of they are "blessed" with being small and having a 12 kt speed. Right now I have half of them allocated to the resource run between Nauru/Ocean Island and Truk. They would make "fast" cargos useful in moving troops to front line locations, although I don't think they'll last long in that capacity.

xAKL Daigen (68) - These are the smallest "useful" cargo ships. With only a 10 kt speed, and a capacity of 125 troops/1570 cargo, they will be used to move small quantities of troops and/or supplies to small garrisons here and there, preferably not near enemy air power. I see them used in the southern SRA in that capacity.

xAKL Kiso-E (69) - My intent is to convert them to ACM (40) and PB (29). With the 31 existing, I'll have 60 PBs. I like them because they have an endurance of 4000 and have 3 DC racks. Their 11 kt speed will pretty much force them to escort the multitude of 10 kt cargos. I really wish it was 12 kts. Ah well....

xAKL To'su (37) - My intent is to convert them to ACM (17) and PB (20). With the 34 existing, I'll have 54 PBs. They're blessed with a 12 kt speed but their small endurance of 1700 reduces their capabilities.

Overall, I'll have 220 PBs (106 Ansyu-C, 60 Kiso-E and 54 To'su). With luck, they'll last long enough to get the nice escorts later in the war to replace them.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 5:35:42 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
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From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline

That post alone is worth the price of admission, Mike.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 5:51:24 PM

pws1225

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 6:22:47 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Thanks guys. I appreciate the support. Where is Tate's Hell anyway?!

Anyway, here is an example of my planning process.

Take Miri (and Brunei). Miri starts the game with 150(150) oil and Brunei is 10(10). Then there is the 150 refineries at Miri as well that come into play. When repaired (around the end of May) that enclave will produce 51,000 oil (170*10*30) and 40,500 fuel (150*9*30) a month. That's a lot of stuff that has to move out of a level 3 port. Ok, a level 3 port can move 11,250 liquid a day max, and up to 1500 liquid per ship per phase. The kicker is that a level 3 port can dock a convoy of up to 24,000 tons. Now using the large TKs will mean a tiny number of ships (2 TKs max) and it'll take forever to fill them. Fuel and oil will accumulate much faster than it will be pulled. We need to use the small TKs to do it and the 1250 TKs won't cut it. Here's the solution:

There will be 4 convoys each composed of the following:

3x 2850 TK (converted Std-C)
2x 1250 TK
~3-4 To'su PB

This TF will fit in a level 3 port. It also will completely fill in one day minimizing it's time in port. In that day, it will fill it's tanks with 11,050 points of oil or fuel. (Note that Miri and Brunei produces 1350 fuel and 1700 oil a day for a total of 3050 points.)

Now, that enclave produces a total of 91,500 points a month. Divide it by 11,050 and you get 8.28 fills of the TF. That's 2 trips per month per TF. I'd set 2 to pulling oil and 2 to pulling fuel.

That takes 12x 2850 Std-C TKs and 8x 1250 TKs plus ~16 To'sus.

The Std-C conversions are absolutely essential. You'd never do it without them.

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Post #: 22

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 7:13:31 PM

Mike Solli

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Ok, thoughts on increasing Java's HI. Java starts with 225 oil, 260 resources, 200 refineries, 60 HI and 180 LI. There's a deficit of 1300 resources a day. I didn't expect that, but the 180 LI does a number on the resources. Fortunately, there are a lot of resource producing bases nearby. I will ship resources from the following:

Base (resource centers)

Bandjermasin (60)
Tobali (20)
Billiton (20)
Christmas Is IO (10)
Makassar (20)
Kolaka (40)
Palembang (20)
Singkep (20)
Pontianak (20)

This will allow me to increase the HI in Java by 50 to 110 leaving the following excess for use elsewhere:

Monthly excess:

Supply - 15,000
Fuel - 47,400
Oil - 7500
Resources - 0

The supply will be used in Java as well as the surrounding small bases. Not sure about the fuel, but the oil will make the long trek to Japan.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 7:59:15 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks Paul. I'm looking forward to getting back into AE as well. It's been since January since I played.

Pax, you too?! Seems like all you guys are interested in hauling overland from Singapore to Fusan! What do you think? Is it gamey or not? Convince me to try it!

I for one think its a bit gamey and do not use it. But I would not hesitate to use it if my opponent started 'gamey' tactics themselves. I haul from Palembang and Singers all the way to Japan. I even haul Resources OUT of Hong Kong and ship it to Japan.

Xargun

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Post #: 24

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 8:04:46 PM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Thanks guys. I appreciate the support. Where is Tate's Hell anyway?!

Anyway, here is an example of my planning process.

Take Miri (and Brunei). Miri starts the game with 150(150) oil and Brunei is 10(10). Then there is the 150 refineries at Miri as well that come into play. When repaired (around the end of May) that enclave will produce 51,000 oil (170*10*30) and 40,500 fuel (150*9*30) a month. That's a lot of stuff that has to move out of a level 3 port. Ok, a level 3 port can move 11,250 liquid a day max, and up to 1500 liquid per ship per phase. The kicker is that a level 3 port can dock a convoy of up to 24,000 tons. Now using the large TKs will mean a tiny number of ships (2 TKs max) and it'll take forever to fill them. Fuel and oil will accumulate much faster than it will be pulled. We need to use the small TKs to do it and the 1250 TKs won't cut it. Here's the solution:

Don't forget about Brunei - it's Port can be expanded larger than Miri and fuel moves to the larger Port easily - but oil does not. I use both ports - I ship the oil out of Miri and Fuel from Brunei - I use the small 1250 ton TKs for the oil and normal AOs or large TKs for Fuel from Brunei.

You may also want to plan to enlarge all of the oil bases to size 9+ so you do not suffer any spoilage of Fuel. I had some lost in my game but easily expanded the Ports primarily and then the airfields to get size 9+ to avoid losing fuel to spoilage before it can be hauled away. It makes a HUGE difference at the larger bases like Palembang, Balikpapan and Tarakin.

In your ASW efforts you may want to look at the small islands near Yokohama and south of Okinawa (can't remember their names and not at my game machine). These can easily be built up to a size 1 or 2 port and a size 2+ airfield to provide a base for ASW PBs and ASW air patrols. Put an AG in port at each base to rearm the PB's DCs and you are good.

You can use simple Float planes and AVs to provide support for them so you don't tie up a valuable Base Force or Coy.

Xargun

< Message edited by Xargun -- 11/24/2011 8:10:52 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 8:08:51 PM

Xargun

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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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Don't be afraid to increase the HI at Singapore as well. It is relatively safe from allied bombing once you take the Rangoon area and Sumatra / Java. You can easily drop of fuel and resources from Sumatra to Singapore to fuel any HI you want to build. I have been slowly increasing the HI there to avoid having to build at home and ship everything in.

I would also consider increasing the Refineries at Soerbaja to match the oil so you can simply haul fuel from there and not worry about having to haul oil somewhere else.

Xargun

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 26

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 8:38:44 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Hi Xargun. Lots of great ideas!

My opponent does not use gamey tactics and I don't either. I doubt I'll do it.

Nice idea about Brunei. I didn't realize it accumulated the fuel. That's a great idea!

I try to build up bases to prevent fuel spoilage. There are some bases where you can't get the magic 10 port + airfield to prevent spoilage.

Wonderful idea about AV & AG to eliminate the need for a BF. Never thought of that!

Also a great idea about increasing refineries in Java. That would take only 25 refineries. That's worth it. I think I'll do that. That would eliminate the excess oil and increase supply to 15,750 and fuel to 54,150 a month.

Damn Xargun, you're full of all kinds of good stuff! Thanks!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 8:39:43 PM

Mike Solli

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Joined: 10/18/2000
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Oh yeah, I do plan on increasing the HI in Singapore. Not sure how much yet, but whatever it is, there will definitely be excess fuel and resources to feed it.

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Post #: 28

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 8:59:12 PM

jrcar

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From: Seymour, Australia
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I think shipping to Takao is a mistake, it will become a bottleneck (even at Level 7), get it all the way back to the home islands and save 4 days of unloading/reloading at Takao.

Even in the home islands I drop off at multiple ports so that only a max of 2 convoy are in a single port at a time.

Cheers
Rob

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Post #: 29

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 11/24/2011 8:59:46 PM

Redsunrizing

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Joined: 11/15/2011
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Hello Mike, I can't see the naval 11th air fleet in your deployments, and I was wondering where you were going to use this HQ?

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