RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 2:29:55 PM

Chickenboy

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Mike-you shouldn't have done that with your carriers. You got lucky.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 3:06:17 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

20 Aug 43
I�m at the point in the war where I need to take risks to slow down the Allies. If I just sit in port, I�m doomed. Heck, I�m doomed anyway, but where�s the fun in just watching him pound my bases to dust?

Japan always takes risks.

Your planes flying defensive CAP, what was the % set at, height, and range?

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Post #: 3422

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 3:23:22 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

quote:

I actually got the turn back and ran another turn but the Chungking deliberate assault took an hour to run by itself.

Next time you are doing orders, hit the "P" button. Use right and left clicks to adjust replay speeds. Mine are in screenshots. Even as Japan, you can hit the "Esc" key once to fast forward through the replay. I often do so as Allies, but doing it as Japan will not effect the Allies ability to watch in normal speed.

And if you ever want to counteract the Esc, push Spacebar. It will slow it back down to regular speed.

It will also "properly" continue from a paused replay (Ctrl-P).

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Post #: 3423

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 11:02:50 PM

rustysi

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quote:

Rusty, I've tried playing two games at a time back in the WitP days. I don't care for that much.

Said a little tongue in cheek anyway. Besides I was referring to your post above where you mentioned playing the Allies. After some thought though I still couldn't commit to a PBEM at the current time.

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Post #: 3424

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 11:05:50 PM

rustysi

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quote:

It is interesting to note that the Chinese gross strength is 380k. I need to check but in the past, when I hovered over Chungking, I would see ~680k troops. Gotta check the old combat report too.

I've come to the realization that my 'intel' will report roughly twice the actual number of troops in a particular location no matter how much recon I get into the place.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 11:06:45 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Mike-you shouldn't have done that with your carriers. You got lucky.

Ditto!

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Post #: 3426

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 11:15:37 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Mike-you shouldn't have done that with your carriers. You got lucky.

Andre, I've had more than my share of luck this month. I'm skedaddling.

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Post #: 3427

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 11:18:03 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

20 Aug 43
I�m at the point in the war where I need to take risks to slow down the Allies. If I just sit in port, I�m doomed. Heck, I�m doomed anyway, but where�s the fun in just watching him pound my bases to dust?

Japan always takes risks.

Your planes flying defensive CAP, what was the % set at, height, and range?

Normally, I set them at 60% at 18k. I'll have to check because it seemed different. I usually keep the A6M5c on 100% CAP at 0 or 1 hex range but I changed that up this time. Some of them escorted the attacking bombers 7 hexes. I must have used drop tanks. I did it quite a while ago (real time) so I can't remember.

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Post #: 3428

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 11:20:20 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants_MatrixForum

quote:

I actually got the turn back and ran another turn but the Chungking deliberate assault took an hour to run by itself.

Next time you are doing orders, hit the "P" button. Use right and left clicks to adjust replay speeds. Mine are in screenshots. Even as Japan, you can hit the "Esc" key once to fast forward through the replay. I often do so as Allies, but doing it as Japan will not effect the Allies ability to watch in normal speed.

And if you ever want to counteract the Esc, push Spacebar. It will slow it back down to regular speed.

It will also "properly" continue from a paused replay (Ctrl-P).

Wow, I never knew you could pause a replay! Thanks Lokasenna! By the way, that hour for the Chungking DA was after I hit the arrow in the upper right. I'll try what you suggest Michael, when the next Chungking attack occurs.

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Post #: 3429

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/7/2018 11:21:15 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

It is interesting to note that the Chinese gross strength is 380k. I need to check but in the past, when I hovered over Chungking, I would see ~680k troops. Gotta check the old combat report too.

I've come to the realization that my 'intel' will report roughly twice the actual number of troops in a particular location no matter how much recon I get into the place.

Well, if that's true, then 380k is much better than 680k!

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Post #: 3430

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 12:29:45 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

I just realized that I owned a comb when you started this game.

I just realized that I never responded to your little comment.

Wise ass!

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Post #: 3431

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 4:46:33 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

It is interesting to note that the Chinese gross strength is 380k. I need to check but in the past, when I hovered over Chungking, I would see ~680k troops. Gotta check the old combat report too.

I've come to the realization that my 'intel' will report roughly twice the actual number of troops in a particular location no matter how much recon I get into the place.

Mine doesn't. Mine will be pretty accurate (maybe +/- 25%), but you will want to look on multiple days of DL 9/10 to be sure.

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Post #: 3432

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 4:49:08 PM

Lokasenna

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If you're not actually interested in watching the replay of the Chungking bombardment... do you run the game in a window? If you do, after clicking the "Done" arrow in the upper right (or pushing escape, which does the same thing) - click out of the WITP window into something else. Wait about 1-1.5 seconds and then click back in. You'll now be at the report display for the combat.

Another thing to mention about troop levels: keep in mind that Chinese infantry squads are larger than yours by at least 10%. The load cost of the squad correlates to the number of troops in said squad.

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Post #: 3433

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 5:02:06 PM

Mike Solli

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My DL is 9/13 and is always up there. With the mouse over, I see 682k troops and the combat said 380k. Either way, it's a bunch, but I'm starting to whittle down the forts, which is the main goal right now.

I use a Mac with the HD partitioned running Windows 7. Not sure how to run the game in a window though. That's beyond my capability.

I reduced the troop v troop and bombardment delays from 1.0 sec to 0.2 sec. We'll see how that works, but it'll probably be a week before I launch another DA.

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Post #: 3434

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 6:42:30 PM

Mike Solli

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Been looking at stuff accumulating in Japan, mainly ground units. Nothing major, but I may as well move them to some locations where they can die gloriously for the Emperor.

Also been looking at all the AA that's all over Japan. Time to start thinking about where to place them. I finally looked at the AA stats to see what they're good for.

Type - Effect - Ceiling
20mm - 15 - 6,200 - pretty much worthless, glad there's only 3 of them right now.
75mm - 15 - 25k - not much better, but at least they have some range.
88mm - 20 - 31k - not bad and there's a fair amount of this stuff. Some of it upgrades to the 120mm......in 11 months.

10cm - 34 - 31k - the best there is right now. I count just over 100 tubes right now.
120mm - 45 - 39.37k - can't wait to get these guys!

To be honest, I'm not sure if they really matter. Anyone who's played late game care to chime in? Aside from the 20mm garbage, I count ~350 tubes total. I know we can't cover everything, but how many bases should have some? 3 or 4? What do you guys think?

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 7:49:55 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Been looking at stuff accumulating in Japan, mainly ground units. Nothing major, but I may as well move them to some locations where they can die gloriously for the Emperor.

Also been looking at all the AA that's all over Japan. Time to start thinking about where to place them. I finally looked at the AA stats to see what they're good for.

Type - Effect - Ceiling
20mm - 15 - 6,200 - pretty much worthless, glad there's only 3 of them right now.
75mm - 15 - 25k - not much better, but at least they have some range.
88mm - 20 - 31k - not bad and there's a fair amount of this stuff. Some of it upgrades to the 120mm......in 11 months.
10cm - 34 - 31k - the best there is right now. I count just over 100 tubes right now.
120mm - 45 - 39.37k - can't wait to get these guys!

To be honest, I'm not sure if they really matter. Anyone who's played late game care to chime in? Aside from the 20mm garbage, I count ~350 tubes total. I know we can't cover everything, but how many bases should have some? 3 or 4? What do you guys think?

Flak alone is irrelevant to the late game as Japan, but it's a important part of a holistic defence of the Home Islands. Your flak should be deployed to protect your aircraft factories, as they'll build the planes that will protect your industry and manpower. Concentrate flak on the major aircraft production hexes, as they're probably the weakest chain in the IJ industrial machine, so you want to turn these hexes into 4E kill-zones.

Japanese flak is pretty anemic at best, but it will wound the Allied 4E's, which will mean they'll have a lot of post-mission downtime. Combined with fighters and balloons, you won't stop raids but you will attrition the bombers.

Nagasaki, Yokohama and Kure don't really need extra flak - the base forces there have static 12.7cm DP guns that will do nicely for flak duties. Yokohama base force gets a TOE upgrade to something like 90 or so. There's other small base forces scattered around Japan with organic AA, but not near the same quantity.

Don't be too critical of the 20mm and 25mm guns, they're trash, but they'll shoot at low-flying bombers and poke a few holes in them. The bigger guns aren't all that much better, but quantity has a qualitiy of its own.

Having seen what the late war Allied bombers can do, I've taken the radical view that moving AA out of the core areas is mostly a waste. AA fire seems to be a massive supply drain over a long period of time, so you may as well make sure that it's firing in defence of something worthwhile.

Basically, fighters are the big thing for beating the bombers in the late-game. However, flak is valuable for one key thing - it hurts Allied bombers and the Allied late-war sweeps won't stop it!

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 7:55:22 PM

DanSez

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Thoughts on:
20mm
Where do you expect low level bomber or straffers?
Maybe where a carrier strike will hit a port?
Protecting a valuable beach?

Saipan, Babeldoab, Phillipine Invasion Beach Defense, Burma or Home Island Beach defense is where I try to route them.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 8:00:40 PM

DanSez

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Agree with M-M about keeping all the Home Island units at home.
Units pulled from Manchuria routes to the main lines of defense.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 8:22:31 PM

Lowpe

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Big fan of AA for holistic defense...

I love 20mm AA, wish I had more of it. 20mm doesn't have to fire for it to be effective...as damage soaks.

Check all your TOE upgrades...some really good ones exist for AA, plus you will get a big slug of AA reinforcements in early 44 to counter the B29.

A lot depends upon how the Allies use their bomber force.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/8/2018 8:24:25 PM >

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Post #: 3439

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 9:04:35 PM

Mike Solli

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Good idea focusing on the aircraft factories. I was thinking of focusing on the bases with the most stuff to maximize protection. Focus on keeping the aircraft factories alive so the planes can protect bases.

I agree to keep the Home Islands AA there & move other stuff to the front line.

Lots of good stuff discussed. Thanks.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 9:31:42 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Good idea focusing on the aircraft factories. I was thinking of focusing on the bases with the most stuff to maximize protection. Focus on keeping the aircraft factories alive so the planes can protect bases.

I agree to keep the Home Islands AA there & move other stuff to the front line.

Lots of good stuff discussed. Thanks.

I'd go further, move all the AA to Japan.

Do you really care, come '44 and '45, about anything outside the innermost positions getting bombed? I know I don't.

For the record, I looked up the upgrade path for IJ flak.

The 10cm guns upgrade to the 12cm guns on 9/43, then there's no real upgrades for IJ flak until 9/45 (!), when the Japanese copy of the Bofors arrives too late to actually help with anything. There's also a twin barrelled version of the 20mm arriving in 1/44, but it's only a marginal improvement.

There's also a good smattering of DP guns in the various coastal fortresses in Japan proper, so it makes sense to concentrate your AA units on the inland industrial hexes.

< Message edited by mind_messing -- 6/8/2018 9:33:50 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/8/2018 9:36:25 PM

Zorch

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When do you start building forts in the Home Islands, and where?

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/9/2018 2:12:17 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

When do you start building forts in the Home Islands, and where?

I started about 15 or so months ago. Most of the big cities are done at level 6. Tokyo is close to level 7 where it'll stop. The rest are at varying levels.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/9/2018 2:16:16 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Good idea focusing on the aircraft factories. I was thinking of focusing on the bases with the most stuff to maximize protection. Focus on keeping the aircraft factories alive so the planes can protect bases.

I agree to keep the Home Islands AA there & move other stuff to the front line.

Lots of good stuff discussed. Thanks.

I'd go further, move all the AA to Japan.

Do you really care, come '44 and '45, about anything outside the innermost positions getting bombed? I know I don't.

For the record, I looked up the upgrade path for IJ flak.

The 10cm guns upgrade to the 12cm guns on 9/43, then there's no real upgrades for IJ flak until 9/45 (!), when the Japanese copy of the Bofors arrives too late to actually help with anything. There's also a twin barrelled version of the 20mm arriving in 1/44, but it's only a marginal improvement.

There's also a good smattering of DP guns in the various coastal fortresses in Japan proper, so it makes sense to concentrate your AA units on the inland industrial hexes.

Now that's an interesting thought. Most outer defenses really don't need AA. It just sucks supply for no real reason. I have some time so I'll ponder what to pull into the Home Islands.

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/9/2018 2:31:14 AM

Mike Solli

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22 Aug 43

Sub War

A nice day for me. Right off the bat, the I-9 got the CVE Corregidor in her sights and hit her with 3 of 6 torpedoes. A week ago, the I-6 put two torpedoes into her but she survived and was limping back to a port. Down she went this time with 27 Hellcats and Avengers aboard.

The I-23 caught another Luckenbach and put a torpedo into her along the route to and from San Francisco. She's still afloat, but I doubt she makes port.

5 Fleet
4 Fleet

Nothing to report.

SE Fleet

Not a lot going on here really. Five CAs and a CL bombarded Kavieng to no avail. They caused 6 runway and 1 port hits. I'm sending 300 mines to Kavieng as a little gift for the next Allied TF that visits.

KB1 is 1 hex away from Truk. Akagi and Kaga are actually repairing their damage! Soryu and Shokaku are completely repaired with Zuikaku ready to go when she arrives at Truk tomorrow. Also, Ryujo will be fully repaired tomorrow and Hosho is also available if needed. That's 273 aircraft capacity if needed.

The Allied bombers hit the SNLF south of Kavieng again.

Base damage is coming down:

Manus: 81-4-0, down 19
Kavieng: 83-97-19, up 3 overall, boo
Rabaul: 49-51-0, down 34
Talasea: 0-97-29, down 7

SRA

The oil laden Std-A TK torpedoed off Jesselton yesterday sank.

Burma

The 1 and 2 Tank Divisions arrived at Warazup today and will do a shock attack tomorrow. In the air, 6x 2E bombers were shot down while trying to bomb the tank regiment there.

China

Repairing the disabled squads...

Other Stuff

The Ki-43-IV R&D advanced to 3/45 (will become operational 2/44).

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RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/9/2018 3:34:31 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

22 Aug 43

The 1 and 2 Tank Divisions arrived at Warazup today and will do a shock attack tomorrow. In the air, 6x 2E bombers were shot down while trying to bomb the tank regiment there.

Those are two units, arguably your best, that need an AA air regiment to protect them. Your IJA heavy infantry squads can also benefit from having an AA unit dedicated to them too when near the front lines.

Especially fighting in Burma it is hard to recover morale.

In addition, having some decent AA at your large inland airbases really helps keep them functioning.

Any key defensive position needs IJA heavy infantry squads, artillery 15cm and greater, AA, and even a couple of radar sets. Tanks are great too...especially as fire brigades because the Allies can move their troops incredibly fast.

Take some time now to look at how you expect to fight across Thailand/Vietnam.

Having the lion share of your AA on Honshu doesn't do much if the Allies use their bombers against your frontline defensive position and ignores your economy.

Economic wise, if you have fuel and oil on Honshu, the lion share your supply generation is concentrated in three cities. Your vehicle and dockyards are also concentrated. However, even bombing resources on Honshu will grant VPs...so there is no shortage of key spots to defend.

Even Yoko and Hiroshima, which get great TOE boosts (yoko gets around 100 dp guns...1 day at a time) aren't all that effective without numerous radar sets and other AA units helping them in my experience.

No easy answers at all... nice work on the CVE!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/9/2018 3:38:14 AM >

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Post #: 3446

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/9/2018 9:44:24 AM

Mike Solli

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Hi Lowpe. As always, more to think about.

The one advantage I have in Burma is air supremacy over my troops. I have a lot of experienced IJAAF fighter units there that shred the Brits regardless of what they send my way. There's been no fighting (on the ground or air) recently because of the monsoon. I have very little supply flowing right now.

My intent is to beat up the Chindits then pull those tanks back to Rangoon to recover. My defensive line is currently along the Burma-India border. I'm slowly pulling it back. When the monsoon ends and supply begins to flow again, I expect the Brits to start attacking. I have a good chunk of my infantry upgraded to the 1943 infantry. Only 1 division left to upgrade and it's heading back to Rangoon to upgrade now. Not sure how many are 1943 divisions, but I'll check later today.

That's a good idea about the AA. There's a fair amount in Burma, but it's all back with the air bases. I'll look at moving some up.

Yeah, lots to think about with the Home Islands defense....

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Post #: 3447

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/9/2018 10:49:02 AM

Lowpe

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Once last thought, never mentioned about AA is the die roll...this is a GG game and the die roll can crush you. Having more units in place tends to normalize the results.

This is really evident with radar sets, but is also true for AA.

PS: At some point you won't have air superiority, or time to rest troops so be careful.

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Post #: 3448

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/9/2018 8:53:18 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Having the lion share of your AA on Honshu doesn't do much if the Allies use their bombers against your frontline defensive position and ignores your economy.

We'll need to agree to disagree here. I get where you're coming from, but in the late-game every Allied bomber attacking ground troops is a little victory for Japan in that it's one less plane targeting factories.

You want the bombers to spend themselves against your frontline positions. If the Allies decide to throw their 4E's against ground units, they'll wreck the units, but a wrecked division is still a division, and Japan has plenty of them.

The single greatest protection for your ground units against bombing is terrain. Fighters help a lot, flak only slightly so, but being in x2 and x3 terrain works wonders for keeping units intact. Forts are an added bonus.

I will happily leave every unit on the map devoid of AA protection if it meant that I could be assured that B-29 squadrons striking industry on Honshu had to suffer 10% losses to flak and a two week downtime after every raid.

Anemic Japanese flak isn't going to save the an IJA Tank Division if the Allies send their 4E's against it, but concentrated it might just save enough supply and industry to keep the Empire trundling along a few weeks longer. A dozen AA units won't save the Burma Front if it comes crashing down, but it might give you a couple weeks production out of Osaka or Tokyo. What has more value to you?

The supply consideration is also a major factor that you should closely consider. AA fires every raid, and the supply consumption can add up immensely. I'd rather be spending the supply in Japan, where there's no cost involved in shipping it, than on the frontlines of Burma for example, where logistics are already difficult.

I'm already known for pretty radical views, so feel free to poke holes in my logic!

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Post #: 3449

RE: Once Again into the Breach - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 6/10/2018 3:49:29 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

20mm AA also supply sinks - each time they fire it eats supply.

It occurs to me that maybe I should stockpile those devices so my IJA/IJN units just don't get any and can't waste any supplies

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 3450

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