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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

 
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/8/2012 11:30:57 PM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 694
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline 		The Allies, on the other hand, have depth charge racks that can go all the way down to 600 feet...almost double the maximum depth for any Japanese sub.

(in reply to CT Grognard)
Post #: 1051
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/8/2012 11:31:40 PM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 694
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline 		Yes, durability * 10 is the maximum depth.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1052
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/8/2012 11:33:10 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Ahh, thanks.  Didn't know the formula.  thanks.

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Post #: 1053
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/8/2012 11:36:47 PM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 694
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline 		The deepest any Japanese sub can go is 330 feet.

The Mousetrap (both Mk 20 and Mk 22) all go down to 400 feet, and with 40 accuracy on the Mk 22 - deadly for an IJ Navy sub.

Sorry for hijacking your AAR, Mike!

< Message edited by CT Grognard -- 4/8/2012 11:38:25 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1054
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 12:06:46 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Not a big deal at all. We're all learning here. I'm learning that the Japanese subs are doomed.

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Post #: 1055
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 12:12:32 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		How deep is shallow water?

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(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1056
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 12:56:27 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		22 Feb 42

Sub War

Nothing new to report.

5 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

4 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

SE Fleet

Air combat over Lae and Pt. Moresby netted 6x P-39Ds for the loss of 3x Zeros and one pilot.

China

Nothing new to report.

Burma

Fighting over Taung Gyi and Meiktila netted 3x P-40Es (and an op loss) and 1x H81-A3 for the cost of 3 Oscars and 2 KIA and 1 WIA.

Philippines

Tacloban fell to the 16 Division, destroying the 93 PA Regiment. One more island to take then off to Bataan.

Malaya

Nothing new to report.

SRA

My forces in Java continue to spread out. I control most of the territory but Ted still has large garrisons in Batavia and Soerabaja. My forces are beginning to accumulate at Soerabaja. I'll attack soon.

The 2 Raiding regiment landed at Koepang. The enemy forces are too strong for the regiment to take the base, but that base is definitely not reinforced.

Other Stuff

11 DDs finished upgrades, Kamikazes and Minekazes.

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Post #: 1057
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 12:59:10 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Not a big deal at all. We're all learning here. I'm learning that the Japanese subs are doomed.

Quite. AFter 42 they are just allied VP's to me.

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Pax

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Post #: 1058
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 1:00:52 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		23 Feb 42

Sub War

A couple of SCs caught the Pike in the shallow hex just south of Rabaul and hit her with a DC. She won't sink but she's most likely going to have to go home for a bit.

Wish it had been an S class or Dutch sub.....

5 Fleet

My kids have been home from college for a few days. My daughter was curious about how the game was going so I was talking about it and showing her the map. A couple questions later and she game me a great idea. I currently have 2x Naval Guard units heading for the Aleutians. One was going to reinforce Adak and the other was going to capture the islands to the west of Adak. She was curious about how we play the game knowing so much info about the other side and so much about each other's play style. I told her that we have to change things up to make it fresh. Then I got the idea of invading Umnak Island and Dutch Harbor. Both TFs are in range and I gave them the orders today. The invasions should happen tomorrow. We'll see what happens. Talk about seat of the pants!

4 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

SE Fleet

Three Betties escorted by 15 Zeros went after an AM south of Pt. Moresby. Five Warhawks responded and the Zeros were superb, shooting down 3 and driving off the other two. The Betties missed the AM.

China

Nothing new to report.

Burma

More aerial combat cost us 2 Oscars (1 pilot KIA) for no enemy losses.

Rangoon's airfield reached level 5. The goal is level 7.

Malaya

I am going to try a shock attack tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

SRA

Nothing new to report.

Other Stuff

Reinforcement: I-27 - Heading to the Pacific.

Six more DDs completed upgrades.

I'm hoping to receive another turn tonight. I really want to see the outcome of the Aleutians invasions and the Singapore shock attack.

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Post #: 1059
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 1:01:23 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Not a big deal at all. We're all learning here. I'm learning that the Japanese subs are doomed.

Quite. AFter 42 they are just allied VP's to me.


Thanks for the vote of confidence, Pax.

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Post #: 1060
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 1:18:05 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I can fill you in from the Allied standpoint. Basically, even with an opponent that knows ASW well, I never really lost too many subs for the first two years. More than the historical numbers but not enough to worry about. He had a good focus on air ASW and that probably did more damage than ships. Mostly RTB. However, by escorting every convoy and maximizing air cover, my subs were never a big threat. Then once I got good torpedoes in late 43, the Japanese side started to get the super escort type ship. These things are flat out sub killers out of all proportion to reality and I am losing about 7 subs a month in 1944.

As for your Japanese subs, have fun until early 1943 and then prepare to start losing them in droves. I pretty much had eliminated the Japanese sub threat by the end of 43. Best ASW platform remained the Allied DDs due to crew experience. I trained up my air groups in ASW a little but for the most part rely on them to find subs while the DDs kill them. DEs and SCs get their share but it is the DDs that are the real killers. By the time you get the flood of DEs and PFs with excellent ASW weapons there are not many Japanese subs left to kill. Ark made extensive use of SSX and found them to be virtually useless. One hit a Pearl and then maybe two or three more successful attacks but for the most part they just die and cost you VPs.

Allied carrier aircraft pilots all come with decent ASW skills. SBDs and avengers are both effective sub hunters and will get a few kills. It does not matter which aircraft you use-ASW skill is the key.

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(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1061
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 1:23:21 AM   
BigBadWolf


Posts: 584
Joined: 8/8/2007
From: Serbia
Status: offline 		Can't you scrap together some Zeroes for Burma? IMHO, it would really help. Oscars are just giving his pilots experience and skill points.

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Post #: 1062
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 1:29:45 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf

Can't you scrap together some Zeroes for Burma? IMHO, it would really help. Oscars are just giving his pilots experience and skill points.


I'm trying to but there aren't many available in that area. I have 18 in the Java area and 9 at Pt. Blair. That's it other than SE Fleet and the Pacific. I'll probably move those 18 to Burma soon. The Oscars are doing a great job against the AVG but can't seem to get the Warhawks.

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Post #: 1063
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 1:36:40 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Not a big deal at all. We're all learning here. I'm learning that the Japanese subs are doomed.

Quite. AFter 42 they are just allied VP's to me.


Thanks for the vote of confidence, Pax.

No, I'm hoping you'll find a use for them! Other than the Glen subs, I just park all my other subs on 1/1/43. They just die too easy and give the allies "freebie" VP's. Very disheartening.

Actually, even by late '42 the IJ subs really start to die fast.


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Pax

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Post #: 1064
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 1:37:35 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Hmm, gotta think about that Pax. There has to be a use for them. Maybe it's just sitting in port though....

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Post #: 1065
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:00:14 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Hmm, gotta think about that Pax. There has to be a use for them. Maybe it's just sitting in port though....

Counting on you. Here are all the negatives that I know of:

1. Allies get their annual "ASW" improvement (deservedly) for sonar etc.
2. Starting DD ship exp has crept up from 50's to 60's just through use.
3. Ditto Ship captain exp.
4. DD/DE's have all had at least one upgrade and huge increase of ASW weapons. EX: Porter class goes from 2xDC to 6xDC
5. ASW weapons improve. From simple DC racks to K-gun with twice the range.
6. Beginning in 7/42 the allies start to get a steady stream of DD/DE's. Roughly 5/month that continues until war's end.

Balanced against this the IJ subs get ....

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Pax

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Post #: 1066
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:05:46 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Sounds imposing. The only thing off the top of my head is to use them as an intel gathering device. Use them in screens to tip off enemy movement toward the Japanese main line of defenses. Spread out every third hex and in a couple of belts, they can cover areas where the recon is weak. You'll lose some, but they may give away an enemy operation.

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Post #: 1067
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:11:21 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		well, we'll see if any other uses come up ... but that a way's off in your game.  Now, in the early game they are still great.  Attacking and sinking almost anything! 

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Pax

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Post #: 1068
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:14:23 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

Attacking and sinking almost anything!


I can vouch for that, the last two victims of IJN subs (May '43 yet) are sub chasers.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1069
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:18:46 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		My experience even in the later scenarios are, that they show impressive results against allied CVs.
I intend to use my subs the way the Japs planned to use them: As capital ship killers, not as commerce raiders...

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Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

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Post #: 1070
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:24:52 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Pulse them as cap ship killers for major battles.

Use them for offensive and defensive recon (eg to determine enemy search arcs or watch sea lanes for activity in "sub transport" mode so they avoid battle).

Sub transport missions.

Moving the Japanese treasury to Argentina in '45.

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Post #: 1071
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:26:33 AM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		Do a sub invasion at the West Coast in 45!

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Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 1072
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:30:39 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Oh my, all these wonderful ideas!

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Post #: 1073
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:39:15 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Have you located his sea lanes to SoPac or Australia? As its my first go at PBEM, I can only speak for me. I am using two bases in the southeast Pacific as relays to Australia and Suva. In the eastern Pacific I have not established a mid ocean base and its costing me time and shortages so I imagine a "solid" allied opponent has done so even if its an AO in mid ocean. I tend to escort tankers into and out of ports but not in mid ocean, typically 1 day out and 1-2 days in.

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 4/9/2012 2:40:24 AM >

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1074
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/9/2012 2:48:38 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		No Zulu, I haven't found his SLOC. Still searching. Once I find it, I'll cause him a lot of heartache.

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Post #: 1075
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/10/2012 6:21:20 PM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

MKB was 4 hexes north of Darwin yesterday, along the edge of the shallow water. I wanted to try to hit the Marblehead again today, but I was concerned about subs, so I moved the TF one hex to the east along the shallow water. Good thing I did. The Marblehead and That Damn Boise popped up where MKB was yesterday! MKB has 23 Kates (the N1 model) and 20 of them went after the two CLs. The Marblehead took 3 torpedoes and went down and the Boise took 2 torpedoes and limped away heavily damaged. Ted told me this morning that he expects her to go down. I moved MKB 3 hexes north so it's still 7 hexes from Darwin. If Boise doesn't go down, I want MKB to be able to assist her tomorrow. Should Boise make Darwin, there is still that sub laid minefield there to greet her. Banzai!

The next turn awaits!


Wow, the Boise is a goner! This means you've basically won the war. Without her, the USN is finished!

Okay, I know this is a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. I hate that damn ship. I seriously think the devs have done something with the code to make her comparable to a Star Wars Death Star. Early on, I'd rather see her go than any allied BB. I even think I'd be happier seeing her go than a US CV. I'm not kidding.

I've seen the Boise single-handedly take on TFs composed of 2 BBs, 4 CA/CLs and multiple DDs and walk away with barely a scratch while either sinking or heavily damaging over half of the ships in the TF. She's absolutely nuts in this game. Considering that her real life service record wasn't anything to write home about, I don't understand why she is such a beast in the game.

I wonder, are any of the devs from Idaho?

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 1076
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/10/2012 6:56:05 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Big Bad Boise became a legend in the old WITP days. I had her give nightmares to my opponent in my first PBEM game. If she came across a transport TF, they were in trouble with those rapid firing 6" guns.

Since I'm starting a game as Allies, I cannot wait to get 2 Brooklyn Class CLs and about 6 to 8 Fletcher DDs in a SC TF. I will be looking for trouble with those TFs.

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Post #: 1077
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/10/2012 7:21:43 PM   
CT Grognard

 

Posts: 694
Joined: 5/16/2010
From: Cape Town, South Africa
Status: offline 		That Damn Boise was sunk on the third day of the war in my PBEM against Arnhem.

Of course, not until she had herself managed to sink CVL Ryujo...

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 1078
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/10/2012 9:05:17 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		This is the first of my games to sink That Damn Boise without her ever firing a shot. She usually gives me some more gray hairs first.

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Post #: 1079
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/10/2012 9:32:35 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		The soon as I posted the question about his sea lanes to you, Terry found MINE!! 2 tankers in 2 days.




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