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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

 
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 9:04:18 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Or, you can stop by and we can hoist a few schooners!!!


Sounds good! Will your friend (points to avatar) be there too?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 9:24:58 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		possible, but she is a cheap drunk ... about a 1/4 glass max.

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Post #: 212
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 9:34:43 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Hell, I'm too old for that stuff, Pax.

I got some easy stuff out of the way.

Armament Factories: I bumped them up from 620 to 650. Three factories increased 10 each.

Vehicle Factories: I increased 5 of the 6 by 6 each to bring them from 72 to 102. They'll need more but I'll do it a little at a time. The 6th factory was in a town that had little supply.

Repair Shipyards: Only Hiroshima has a 100 pt repair shipyard. I increased Yokohama, Nagasaki and Kobe each by 10 bringing them up to 100. In addition, I doubled Osaka from 25 to 50. That's my major merchant ship base and I like to have it available for repairs and upgrades.

Naval Shipyards: This is something new for me that I have been thinking about for years. I decided to increase the naval shipyards from the starting 1384 to 1500. That 116 will allow me to accelerate a CV and ~5 DDs, or just about 2 CVs. It's something new I'm trying.

In addition, I finally decided what I wanted to do with my Zeros in the pool. I opted to upgrade Hosho's fighters to Zeros. Her complement is now 14 A6M2s and 6 B5N1s. Since there are only a dozen Zeros left in the pool, I can't do any more with carrier daitai. I resized the Ryujo to 30 fighters and 18 TBs. She now has 28 of 30 A5M4s and 18 of 18 B5N1s.

I will probably upgrade the Kawai Det (9 A5M4s) in the 21 Air Flotilla to Zeros using up most of my remaining pool.

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Post #: 213
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 9:40:42 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Something interesting I learned. In order to resize the Ryuho air groups, I moved her to a new Air TF. When I did that, the old one (TF 3) became a surface TF. That TF has a * so it is one of the magic move TFs. I resized the Ryujo and found I couldn't move her back into TF 3. I changed TF 3 to an escort TF and moved her in, then changed it back to an Air TF. Problem solved. But, it got me to thinking. Since I can move ships into and out of that TF, I can essentially make it whatever kind of TF I want. Invasion TF? Not sure I'd do that because I'd have to move loaded ships into it in order to do that. I'll probably leave it the way it is because that smells of gaminess. Just a thought.....

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Post #: 214
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 9:45:29 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Some thoughts on using TF 3. In the past I have always sent it toward Jolo to go after enemy merchant shipping fleeing that way. I'm thinking of sending it to the north side of the Philippines this time around. Maybe the 2 BBs can head south of the Philippines this time to take care of Houston and Boise. The Hosho and Zuiho will team up with Ryujo giving them 14 A6M2s, 46 A5M4s and 36 B5N1s. That should be able to take care of Force Z should it be stupid enough to hang around. Thoughts?

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Post #: 215
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 9:47:00 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Something interesting I learned. In order to resize the Ryuho air groups, I moved her to a new Air TF. When I did that, the old one (TF 3) became a surface TF. That TF has a * so it is one of the magic move TFs. I resized the Ryujo and found I couldn't move her back into TF 3. I changed TF 3 to an escort TF and moved her in, then changed it back to an Air TF. Problem solved. But, it got me to thinking. Since I can move ships into and out of that TF, I can essentially make it whatever kind of TF I want. Invasion TF? Not sure I'd do that because I'd have to move loaded ships into it in order to do that. I'll probably leave it the way it is because that smells of gaminess. Just a thought.....

Yep, you can move ships around and adjust your TF's. In particular the "*" magic move ones. I don't consider it gamey. First off, you can't add any more troops. So, you can change destinations and escorts but thats about it. For the Ryuho, either you make another small amphib unit or leave it as an Air Combat. The Ryuho can't be in an amphib TF. I usually choose the Air TF (orig starting TF) as I want her up around Luzon to help close the door on the fleeing ships from Manila.

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Post #: 216
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 9:51:40 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Yeah, if I did switch out ships to make it an invasion TF, I would create another Air TF for Ryujo. I probably won't do that. Anyway, you got me wondering how you get Ryujo to the Philippines. Where exactly? The west side off Manila? Also, how do you get there. To you go directly there or do you loop around from the east then north of the Philippines? Going directly there has always gotten me into trouble. I usually end up with some US cruiser taking pot shots at her.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 10:03:05 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yeah, if I did switch out ships to make it an invasion TF, I would create another Air TF for Ryujo. I probably won't do that. Anyway, you got me wondering how you get Ryujo to the Philippines. Where exactly? The west side off Manila? Also, how do you get there. To you go directly there or do you loop around from the east then north of the Philippines? Going directly there has always gotten me into trouble. I usually end up with some US cruiser taking pot shots at her.

I just put her on the SE side. Kates have good range, I restrict them so they won't get too close to Manila AF's and the CAP there. Players rarely ever CAP the fleeing ships, so intercepts are rare. Even if I don't hit any, the search "lights" them up for my surface forces which are on the west side who can then close and get them in a surface action.

I've got Nettties at Samah and Taiwan to "light" up all the West and North of Manila and also flee-ers from HK as well.

If the player shifts some of his fighters south, I'm good with that too. Then I can't hit the ships so easily, but he's gonna leave his 4E's exposed. I'd actually rather get the 4E's if I can before he can PP them out ... more dangerous than some piddly xAKL's ....

Once in a while you can get lucky on either the Houston or Boise too ... did I mention how much I HATE the Boise?

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Pax

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Post #: 218
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 10:08:47 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Yeah, I hate the Boise too. I figure it's a decisive victory if the Boise goes down.

The SE side, I like it. That keeps the Ryujo out of trouble from US cruisers. Once the Hosho arrives, then the Zeros can escort the Kates easily.

I'm thinking of breaking down Ryujo's Kates into chutai. That would be 3x 6 plane chutai. Then I can assign 2 to bombs and 1 to torpedoes. The Ryujo is blessed with 27 torpedoes so they would last a while.

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Post #: 219
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 10:31:19 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Another thought. There are basically few to no pilots in reserve, especially for the IJAAF. Some of the sentai are over strength, and some of those are very over strength. I'm thinking of pulling some of the excess planes and pilots into the reserve and allocating them to units that are under strength. Basically, there will be no change to the over all air strength, but instead of being in reserve, they will fly. It will allow more planes to fly each turn early on. The problem is that it's going to be awhile before the on map training starts producing a significant number of pilots. Thoughts?

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Post #: 220
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 10:36:20 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Another easy one. Port and airfield upgrades:

Ports
Cam Ranh Bay: 5(6) to 7
Haiphong: 4(6) to 7
Takao: 4(4) to 7
Ominato: 5(6) to 7
Hakodate: 6(4) to 7
Fusan: 4(5) to 7
Toyohara: 3(1) to 4
Wakkani: 3(4) to 4
Shikuka: 4(6) to 6
Sapporo: 5(6) to 6

Airfields
Paramushiro Jima: 0(4) to 4
Bangkok: 4(7) to 7

Let's see, I forgot Truk and an airfield in China to increase to 7. But then, I haven't even looked at China yet.

Edit: There are quite a few I forgot. I'll keep track and redo this later.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 10:55:15 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		I made sure all of the good fighter groups had a few extra pilots, then pulled extra from all Nate groups, and pulled one whole 42 plane Nate group to fill out the remainder, turned it into training until it can be upgraded, which for the last Nate unit should be about two months from now. Just in time for newly trained pilots to arrive in force.

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Post #: 222
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 10:56:17 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I broke off CV Kaga from KB since she is the slowest and put her into the DD TF that was headed towards Midway that had the (*) bonus move. They headed for Takao. They were joined by CVL Ryujo who also headed there from Babedoab with orders to re-size and have her Claudes upgrade to Zero (36 planes) and Kates (13). They can then head towards Malaya and gather up the other two fast BBs to form a nice little mini-KB to rule over the SRA. They can both be sent to Camrahn Bay instead on turn 1.

Just my 2 cents.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 11:01:16 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		obvert, clever idea. I'll have to take a look at that.

ny59giants, that is outstanding. Did the missing Kaga have much impact on the Pearl Harbor attack?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 11:34:44 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

ny59giants, that is outstanding. Did the missing Kaga have much impact on the Pearl Harbor attack?


No, but then again I stayed around for two days. Wanted to sink as many of those 'slow' counter-invasion type BBs as possible.

I did a delayed "Mersing Gambit" by having the 5th Division placed in one or two TFs at Samah and end their bonus move due south of Saigon (a lot of support units at Samah went to Mersing while the 18th Division landed historically). They headed towards Mersing on the 8th and my CVs were able to get over and cover it. I send the Vals from Kaga to Singora to hit the fleeing ships from Georgetown and put on extra Zeros on Kaga. Two more divisions followed up at Mersing and Singapore fell on the 31st....of December! I had Kaga make the jump to Camranh Bay and Ryujo play catch up from Takao.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 11:43:44 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

ny59giants, that is outstanding. Did the missing Kaga have much impact on the Pearl Harbor attack?


No, but then again I stayed around for two days. Wanted to sink as many of those 'slow' counter-invasion type BBs as possible.

I did a delayed "Mersing Gambit" by having the 5th Division placed in one or two TFs at Samah and end their bonus move due south of Saigon (a lot of support units at Samah went to Mersing while the 18th Division landed historically). They headed towards Mersing on the 8th and my CVs were able to get over and cover it. I send the Vals from Kaga to Singora to hit the fleeing ships from Georgetown and put on extra Zeros on Kaga. Two more divisions followed up at Mersing and Singapore fell on the 31st....of December! I had Kaga make the jump to Camranh Bay and Ryujo play catch up from Takao.


Man, I gotta try that!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 11:46:59 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I'm thinking of breaking down Ryujo's Kates into chutai. That would be 3x 6 plane chutai. Then I can assign 2 to bombs and 1 to torpedoes. The Ryujo is blessed with 27 torpedoes so they would last a while.

Exactly what I do. I also transfer the Claudes from Bab to Ryujo as well. That's the max 5 airgroup on her. Just gives her a bit more CAP and when I am ready to convert to Zero's I can transfer them off and resize her native group.

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Post #: 227
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 11:51:37 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Another thought. There are basically few to no pilots in reserve, especially for the IJAAF. Some of the sentai are over strength, and some of those are very over strength. I'm thinking of pulling some of the excess planes and pilots into the reserve and allocating them to units that are under strength. Basically, there will be no change to the over all air strength, but instead of being in reserve, they will fly. It will allow more planes to fly each turn early on. The problem is that it's going to be awhile before the on map training starts producing a significant number of pilots. Thoughts?

I move a LOT of pilots around on Turn 1 for this reason, both IJA and IJN. Put the experienced ones in your designated training groups into group reserve and then pull them to your operational groups. As you say, there are a lot of groups that are at minimal strength. Sure it will take a few days to get those planes in service, but by 12/10 you have a lot more planes flying in your operational areas manned by good pilots.

As you note, the issue is that you have 60 days (more or less) before you will have any fighter pilots coming out of your training program. Bomber pilots a lot longer than that depending upon how many skills you are trying to train.

IN the end, I look at it this way:
1. the allies are severely constrained by planes until mid-42.
2. numbers matter a great deal in air combat.
3. I want to gain air supremacy as fast as I can.

The outcome for me is to move those pilots. If I can get 2:1 or 3:1 in combat numbers advantage, I know I'm going to have better than 1:3 in loss rates. With the higher numbers involved, it means the allies are out of planes that much faster. Also, the additional pilots allows me to work rest into air units better so they will have lower fatigue and cut my losses even more. IJ has to take risks, and has to take and keep the momentum as long as possible.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 12/2/2011 11:56:17 PM >

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Post #: 228
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/2/2011 11:59:46 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

ny59giants, that is outstanding. Did the missing Kaga have much impact on the Pearl Harbor attack?


No, but then again I stayed around for two days. Wanted to sink as many of those 'slow' counter-invasion type BBs as possible.

I did a delayed "Mersing Gambit" by having the 5th Division placed in one or two TFs at Samah and end their bonus move due south of Saigon (a lot of support units at Samah went to Mersing while the 18th Division landed historically). They headed towards Mersing on the 8th and my CVs were able to get over and cover it. I send the Vals from Kaga to Singora to hit the fleeing ships from Georgetown and put on extra Zeros on Kaga. Two more divisions followed up at Mersing and Singapore fell on the 31st....of December! I had Kaga make the jump to Camranh Bay and Ryujo play catch up from Takao.


Man, I gotta try that!

Wow. Great manouver. I would never be able to pull that off ...

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Post #: 229
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/3/2011 12:12:40 AM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Wow. Great manouver. I would never be able to pull that off ...


Play a game as both sides for the first week or so and do it until you get it down. I was playing Scen 2, but you can do it with Scen 1. My OCD-ness did help.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/3/2011 12:55:41 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Hey Mike, just thought I'd poke my head in and say hi. Glad to see you're back at it! Still working on turn 1, I gather?

My own game with maikarant has been on indefinite hold, though we each occasionally swear we'll get back to it some day. In the meantime, I've been busy beta-testing Matrix WIF and real-life work.

Anyway, good luck!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/3/2011 4:23:43 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Yep, I re-formed the "magic move" TFs at will. I refused to invade anywhere I considered gamey (i.e. Java), but was able to hit numerous useful bases on day 1 or 2 (e.g. Manado, Ternate, and Sinkawang).

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/3/2011 3:37:43 PM   
SuluSea


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Status: offline 		I don't know if you consider it gamey Mike but you have two surface task forces with the bonus at Pescadores I turn them into amphibious and load all ships going to Luzon, after the first turn I form surface TF from those TFs.
I also create a new TF from the TF 5 BB group using all the ships except one CA (which will use the magic bonus) , I backfill using a CA from the Patani group . The CA using the magic move helps augment anti shipping TFs leaving Manila. The developers have given us the ability to be flexible and creative so I say why not as long as it's not attacking anything inside the outer perimeter of bases.

I also have experimented using Kaga going down east of Luzon and have done a number on PH shipping with the 5 carriers. It's a somewhat risky plan but I've run atleast 7 turns and use anywhere from 15 to 20% CAP over the KB , I don't attack the airfield at all using all bombers to attack ships, defenders will come out to take shots at the carriers and get handled easily resulting in decent numbers of A2A kills... Under this plan I wouldn't recommend a day 2 attack as I've run it for tests a few times and found too much defending and attacking resulting in air numbers lost that we can't tolerate. No hits on the carrier TF but dancing with the devil here especially if a surface group comes out and puts a carrier or two out of commision.

I'm not sold on where Kaga should be if released from KB but it does give punch to the units around the South China and Phillipine Seas.

As always interested in the discussion here. Best of luck!!

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 12/3/2011 3:45:07 PM >

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Post #: 233
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/3/2011 6:49:20 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		You guys have me thinking about rearranging my TFs. I'll do that this afternoon. Right now I made some decisions about my pilot situation. I have decided to take the 77 sentai (including it's 2 dets) and make it a training organization temporarily. Combined, this sentai has slots for 66 planes and pilots but has only 36 of each. If I remove 33 pilots (leaving 1 good pilot per unit) I can fill up all of 3 Air Division remaining fighter organizations and all but 2 slots in the 5 Air Division fighter sentai. The 77th will then accept 85 rookie pilots and train somewhere safe until it has skills high enough to enter combat. Then the excess pilots will be drawn into the reserve (an into another training organization if needed) while the 77th enters combat. I suspect that will be around mid February. By then I suspect there should be enough Ki-43-Ics to outfit the unit.

I am going to remove all of the reserve A6M2s from the Air Flotilla (24 aircraft) and use those plus the 12 currently in the pool to outfit the Ryujo with 30 A6M2s. I'll also pull out the excess pilots (should be 24 as well) for the reserve. That will have to last for some time.

Doing the two things discussed above is somewhat of a risk, but one that I think is necessary to take.

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Post #: 234
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/3/2011 7:07:14 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
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Status: offline 		Zeros - You start out with 26 in Pool. In your LBA Zeros you have another 24 in Reserve that you could pull out to give you 50 in the Pool. Then, you have another 9 in Reserve on KB. That brings your max up to 59. I would consider re-sizing and upgrading the Claudes on Ryujo from 12 to 36 Zeros and the 12 Claudes on Zuiho from 12 to 21 Zeros. That brings you up to 56 and you have 3 in Reserve.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/3/2011 8:59:26 PM   
Mike Solli


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Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I already upgraded the Hosho, so I've done what you said and will upgrade Ryujo when it reaches Takao. That'll work.

I decided not to do what I had planned with the 77 Sentai. Most of the 3 Air Division fighter units are in locations where they can't receive planes. I'll see how things work and go on the fly.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/7/2011 2:11:58 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Ok, I'm getting there. I have the following still to do:

Warship movement - pretty quick
Finalize invasions - pretty quick
Air attacks - pretty quick
China - Ugh, this'll take forever

Now that I'm working, my free time is pretty scarce. And I have drill this weekend....

I'll try to get the first three done over the next couple of days. Then China....

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/7/2011 12:17:01 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Ah yes, work.  Interfering with important things ... 

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Post #: 238
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/7/2011 5:22:33 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Also, China can be done slowly. I spend the first week giving it about a half hour or more per turn. Those divisions need some rest to begin anyway. As you shift garrisons it'll have the appearance of doing some big moves if the Allies can actually recon anything there anyway.

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Post #: 239
RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 12/7/2011 11:53:30 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Well, China is done. Lots of shuffling to free up some divisions for offensive ops. It'll take a while though. At any rate, the wife and I are out to a nice seafood restaurant. Celebration for the job.

Today my boss asked me if I'd like to go to Afghanistan. He said it may not be a request later. Ah well, such is life. I told him to throw in a promotion with the request. I need to tell my wife about the request. She ain't gonna be happy. Maybe I'll wait until after dinner. If I do go, I'm getting a laptop.

Actually, it was nice in a weird sort of way. I was asked for my name.

Invasions tomorrow.

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