Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Well done and belated congratulations....
Thanks! I think the ground work for this invasion has been the dire consequences to the IJA on the Asian mainland, which has reduced the number of troops available to cover bases like Kushiro.

I am certain almost every member of the forums have lurked in here.
Hmm... should I sell advertising?

Again! I envy your organizational skills especially here near end game where the shear mass of Allied OOB must be daunting.
I am barely keeping up with it, which is another way of saying that I am not really keeping up with it.

I feel a little inadequate and wonder if you have been messaging to my spouse ...
South of the border we have this thing called the 5th Amendment - and I ain't talking!

No insincere flattery and as a side note: Please pass along equal credit congrats to your worthy opponent. You both exemplify the aspects of this game I most appreciate.
I will. Walter is an amazing opponent. Relentless and aggressive, organized, and on and on.

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Two real quick questions:

1) The bomber losses in 25's and 29's have to be hurting vis a vis your previously depleted ranks. I know you indicated process- night then day raids... but the mechanics of sweeping still seem to leave a lot to chance for CINCPAC <sigh>
The medium bombers get chewed up. The attack variants of the medium bombers get chewed up, spit out, and stomped on. And for the attack bombers that's without suffering any ambushes or "escort failures". I'm just trying to keep them training and making well protected milk runs so I will have some to use for high priority assignments.

The B-29's are a different situation. It's true they are much more vulnerable in-game than IRL, but that might in part be due to Japan's IRL situation versus that of Japanese players in the game. The 23 lost today is about 2 weeks' production (@40 per 30-day month). I can sustain those sort of hits about once per month. In the meantime if I am reducing the resistance then we are getting ahead. I do have to be careful and it should really start to help getting the B-24's in the act.

Moving back to night exclusively ? Satisfied with the number coming on line ? Can you sustain the bombing or will a "month off in March" have to be contemplated ?
No month off. The B-29B (I think it's called, the night bomber variant) starts production @40 per month in March and a number of squadrons will arrive equipped with it. I'll keep the B-29B exclusively on night operations and the B-29-25 exclusively on day operations. The B-29-1 I will just use up on day operations, right to the last one if I can swing it. I have a number of B-29 squadrons with no aircraft and only one or two squadrons are full, so your questions are very relevant!

<note again a beautiful tribute to this game's realistic complexity and resource management ; that so near the end game yet earlier choices have consequences! This is the nirvana spot of so many games no matter what genre and so many fail to achieve this good a balance>
Here here!


2) No fires in Kago and Fugu ? Not dropping the incendiaries everywhere as first tactic ?
This turn I did not make Manpower attacks. The past two days/nights of Manpower attacks at Nagasaki/Sasebo seemed significantly less effective than I figured on, so I switched tactics. For now I will hit specific factories. Maybe night bombing will be on Manpower and day bombing on specific targets?

Now I recall reading your manpower vs industry details and that fires do continue to do some persistent damage as indicated earlier; even as they die out over time. I recall other older AAR to the end (name?) where the allied player was seeking to see if a firestorm was achievable.. or bomb...or invading ... I am not advocating any as a goal albeit it firestorm was historical.
I certainly want to try but I might have to wait for a greater mass of bombers.

I am more interested in your opinion / tactics.

Assuming this game persists with your opponent (willing) till roughly "historical" end date :

1) You could potentially invade and capture a Tokyo etc...
Certainly would like to...
2) You could fire bomb or just bomb bomb the Imperial Cabinet and the Emperor into humiliating unconditional surrender...essentially nothing would be left worth defending; but that relates to above... the depth of your bomber pools... there must eventually be a time of reckoning....
As you say.
3) You may in fact get "the bomb" and its consequences
May want to just to do it. I don't think it will be strictly needed.

Or some combo.

You always clearly indicated the desire to invade the HI...for end game purposes... but as you get nearer and nearer does anything alter your thinking?
Watching other AARs and seeing the depth of the resistance makes me look at the garrison requirements. The more combat power is taken off line for garrison duty the more difficult the remaining offensive. The Soviets would be a great help!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5


1) You could potentially invade and capture a Tokyo etc...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5


1) You could potentially invade and capture a Tokyo etc...

Dream on, you Allied dog!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Yeah, Tokyo garrison is around 1150.

Are any of the Chinese units unrestricted? They can be great help with garrison duties. IIRC 11th Group Army HQ and attached units are not permanent restricted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Yeah, Tokyo garrison is around 1150.

Are any of the Chinese units unrestricted? They can be great help with garrison duties. IIRC 11th Group Army HQ and attached units are not permanent restricted.

Yes but I don't recall at the moment how many. They were all bought out, fought in Burma and beyond, and are now fighting in China. Once we get a horde of respawned Chinese Army units the unrestricted units will be a welcome addition to an invasion force.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakanel

Well, kushiro fell at first assault. that's very good. It seems Hokkaido was not really prepared for a ground invasion. Which works to your advantage just fine.

I am a bit worried by the B29 losses.... seems quite high.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Yeah, Tokyo garrison is around 1150.

Are any of the Chinese units unrestricted? They can be great help with garrison duties. IIRC 11th Group Army HQ and attached units are not permanent restricted.

Yes but I don't recall at the moment how many. They were all bought out, fought in Burma and beyond, and are now fighting in China. Once we get a horde of respawned Chinese Army units the unrestricted units will be a welcome addition to an invasion force.

Somehow I can't see that happening politically in real life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I just noticed something. You can build PT boats at Kushiro so you can have PT/MTB boats fighting each other - as well as having your PT boats lure air raids for your CAP to destroy!

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

IRL as it happened, yes. But consider the alternate history of a liberated China with the opportunity for some in-kind garrison duty there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

IRL as it happened, yes. But consider the alternate history of a liberated China with the opportunity for some in-kind garrison duty there.

No I mean even in the scenario as it plays out here. I cannot imagine, that even with China liberated completly the Americans would have wanted Chinese troops in Japan.

a) It would look like they needed Chinas help to beat Japan
b) The Chinese might/will ask for some role in post war Japan (occupation zones, permanent land concessions, ...)
c) Would the Chinese give up their occupation when the Americans said so, what if not?
d) Would at least some Chinese troopers try to get payback for the Japanese actions in Nanking and many other places? Also even destroyed post war Japan might seem very rich for a poor Chinese peasant soldier (looting).

Remember that the Americans at first planed downfall with only American Troops (not even Australian or British, though mostly due to different logistic trails and coordination) and that likewise the British were very reluctant to admit Chinese troops in Burma in 1942 even in their extremly dire situation.

On a side note, there probably was no chance in hell to liberate all of China in 1945 IRL, just like it was immpossible for Japan to capture it completly (but happens all the time in the game). The game is just not very good at modelling the ultimate tar baby and logistic sinkhole that China was for all parties involved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid

I was not trying to talk you out of doing anything in game. Using the Chinese for garrison is perfect due to their ratio of AV to firepower.

I read the wikipedia (I know - not a scientific source) article on operation downfall again and it said: "MacArthur blocked proposals to include an Indian Army division because of differences in language, organization, composition, equipment, training and doctrine." - That would have ruled out Chinese I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Considering the fact that the Commonwealth used a lot of US equipment at that time and the fact that Europe was not requiring much equipment and supplies, it would not have been improbable that some Commonwealth divisions could have been equipped with a lot of US supplied weapons and equipment. Also, given their own area of operations as in the ETO, the Commonwealth units would have had their own logistics organizations. It would not be modeled in the game but it could have occurred in actuality.

quote:


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Ground combat at 86,58 (near Pucheng)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 6922 troops, 74 guns, 84 vehicles, Assault Value = 294

Defending force 455 troops, 1 guns, 12 vehicles, Assault Value = 18

Allied adjusted assault: 275

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 275 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
445 casualties reported
Squads: 34 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 13 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 14 (14 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
44th Indian Brigade
671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
111th LRP Brigade

Defending units:
51st Recon Regiment


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Ground combat at 82,47 (near Ichang)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2570 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 99

Defending force 285 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Allied adjusted assault: 22

Japanese adjusted defense: 4

Allied assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), experience(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
73 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 1

Allied ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
78th Chinese/A Corps

Defending units:
32nd JAAF AF Coy


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quote:


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Ground combat at Mauban (80,78)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5786 troops, 65 guns, 222 vehicles, Assault Value = 207

Defending force 8781 troops, 62 guns, 25 vehicles, Assault Value = 266

Allied adjusted assault: 109

Japanese adjusted defense: 231

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
202 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 41 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
80 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)

Assaulting units:
1st Regiment
2nd Regiment
Torres Strait Battalion
29th British Brigade

Defending units:
66th Infantry Regiment
39th/A Division
27th Tank Regiment


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quote:


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Afternoon Air attack on 77th/A Division, at 123,52 , near Bihoro

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 3

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 195
TBF-1 Avenger x 4
TBM-1C Avenger x 156

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 destroyed, 28 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
413 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-402 Hikotai with N1K2-J George (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(3 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 14000.
Raid is overhead

Also attacking 77th JAAF AF Bn ...
Also attacking 77th/A Division ...
Also attacking 7th/C Division ...
Also attacking 77th/A Division ...
Also attacking 77th JAAF AF Bn ...
Also attacking 77th/A Division ...


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