Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

As we know the key was during 1943 not 1945.

During 43 Germany had to shift manpower to the Med and Western Wall.

We also know from data after the wall came down that Russian figures were greatly bloated by Stalin and his pets. Russia was a house of cards that is why it fell apart. Basicly a big Enron. More grain was prodused in 1910 then in 1970.

Russian loses increased yearly from 41 to 44 so its a myth that the Russian army matured at all. Old Stalin lies die hard.

If it was not for Western allies forseing Germany to pull over a million troops from the Eastern Front, Russia would not have moved the front at all from 43 to 45.

Russia was pressing 13 year olds, old men women into service on a regular basis from 1944 onward ...

One has to be objective about things, BOTH countries were running out of manpower.

Russia because they were losing the war of atrition vs Germany and Germany because of the war on two fronts.

The simple facts of both countries population 85 mil vs 170 mil 2 to 1 and the combat ratio 3.5+ to 1 confirms this fact.

1+1 = 2 even in Stalins Russia.

Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

All I can say that over 30% of German male population that Served in any branch of German army died in the world war two.

Germany number of served was 18,200,000 this is all air, navy, army. Number of killed and missed 5,533,000. Number of wounded 6,035,000. Percentage of killed 30.4.

Mathematical chance of getting end up killed or wounded in German military during world war two was about 63%. That is about there result if 18.2 million Germans would have skip World War 2 and choose to play Russion roulette with revolver that has 4 / 6 bullets inserted in the gun.

Serving in Soviet army was a safer option than German army not much but still chance of ending up getting killed or wounded was lower in Soviet army.

More stats here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Pelton, the Germans won the war of attrition all the way to Berlin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

It's a fact. That's where the war ended. In Berlin, with Hitler dead and the Red Star flapping over the Reichstag. It's also the bottom line. You can spin counterfactuals and chop logic all you want, but facts are stubborn things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Jakerson, I'm mostly doubting the utility of this entire exercise to reduce the war to a casualty ratio. It's the height of reductio ad absurdum. Things were a bit more complicated than that.

Pelton is right to this extent: throughout the war, the Soviets had disproportionate casualty ratios compared to the Germans. As a matter of fact, this was also true in the west against the allies, although the disparity was not as high. (Dupuy did a ton of work on this.)

But...so what? Germany lost. Big time. Casualty ratios aren't everything. Nor is attrition, even highly favorable attrition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

It's a fact. That's where the war ended. In Berlin, with Hitler dead and the Red Star flapping over the Reichstag. It's also the bottom line. You can spin counterfactuals and chop logic all you want, but facts are stubborn things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

In a game where sub-machine gun teams and 120mm mortars outperform rifle squads and Tiger 1s, who the &#$&@# cares about the history of world war 2?

This game is only loosely based on that conflict.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
Yes they are. I have said nothing about where the war ended, but your one for changing subject when you know you can't refute data.

Still clinging to the old dead Red Enron, I mean Russia heheh

Germans were winning the war of atrition 3.5 to 1.

The data is the data and can't be refuted, changing the subject is not an answer.

Stalins dead.

The truth can be speaken without getting shot now.

Its ok, hehehehe

Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

4/5 of all German losses were incurred on the Eastern Front; the west was a glorious side show.

Marquo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

4/5 of all German losses were incurred on the Eastern Front; the west was a glorious side show. My father was a second lieutenant in the US 65th ID, and to this day, in his 90th decade, he is still thankful that the Soviets, not the Allies, fought the final Battle of Berlin.

Marquo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Sadly Russia still has not recovered from the both of them. The total population of Russia after 60 yrs in 2002 finaly equaled 1940 levels.

Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Pelton doesn't seem to read anything but his own posts.