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RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/27/2011 3:09:33 AM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 2529
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

Which means I am probably going to get my tail kicked between my shoulders... and that is good.


....usually what happens when a Star Destroyer crosses into the Neutral Zone and confronts Igard in one of his fleets Romulan Warbirds!





Ooops! (Did I start something?)

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< Message edited by ehsumrell1 -- 12/27/2011 3:11:07 AM >

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Post #: 31
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/27/2011 7:04:48 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Interesting thread.

I habitually upgrade my mining stations with 4 maxos blaster and 2 extra corvidian shields
right when starting a new game. It doesn´t stop a dedicated attack of larger than escort
size ships, but it stops the average pirate raid from being a threat.

Never thought of this as gamey, but now I start wondering.

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Post #: 32
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/27/2011 7:37:04 PM   
Krippakrull

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 4/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube


quote:

ORIGINAL: Krippakrull

I do arm some stuff as well, though it feels kind of wrong that the civilian sector has to pay for my heavily armed mining stations. To make it a harder choice, why not have the maintenance for any stations or ships that's more than a gun or two come out of the state budget? That way I'd still build pretty beefy mining stations at critical locations, but be hard pressed to make each and every station being able to single handedly beat most pirates.


The most realistic solution would be to keep a running tally of "Defense Costs" for civilian ships and bases. You would tally up all the firepower, and it would equate to a certain annual cost that represents ammo, training, merchant marines, ect. You would then make the state pay for the Firepower, and the civilians pay for the rest.


I do like this, but maybe only have to pay for the firepower beyond a certain limit. A blaster or two on ships for personal defense doesn't seem unreasonable for the civvie sector to pay for.

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Post #: 33
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/28/2011 2:36:53 AM   
the1sean


Posts: 854
Joined: 5/11/2010
From: Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor

Putting shields and weapons on mining stations will increase the upkeep dramatically and is not really cost effective.  It will hamper your ability to expand without giving much return benefit.

It's much more cost effective to either pay off the pirates or defend your stations with small, patrolling fleets.


Depends on how many weapons and shields you add. Also, stations are not cheap, and neither are the freighters and constructors that they supply. A lightly armed station can keep the pirates busy enough that weaker civilian ships can flee safely.

Also, I never pay pirates off, especially as a long term policy (unless I am using them against an opponent, and only then if they live very far away). It just gives them more money to buy more warships!


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Post #: 34
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/28/2011 2:36:28 PM   
Evrett


Posts: 142
Joined: 11/29/2011
Status: offline 		Putting weapons on mining stations draws resources away from weapon components used in ships and stabases..if your AI goes an builds a bunch of mining stations you can get a bottleneck from all the resources being reserved. 

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Post #: 35
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/28/2011 4:40:08 PM   
Blueberry

 

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/16/2011
From: Distant Worlds
Status: offline 		I redesign and arm my mining stations as soon as I start a new game. Two lasers on a mining station design won't hurt your budget considerably and one can think of adding some extra shields to compliment the thing. Some players prefer to add shields to let the station survive long enough for the cavalry to arrive. Others prefer to add some weapons and let mining stations deal with pirates on their own. Some people prefer to combine both options. It is all down to personal preference and style/strategy.

Never armed civilian ships though. It is admirable that this game offers players so many options on various levels of gameplay. Shame that I am too damn busy to get some gaming time.

Really looking forward to the January patch.

(in reply to Evrett)
Post #: 36
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/28/2011 7:37:01 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evrett

Putting weapons on mining stations draws resources away from weapon components used in ships and stabases..if your AI goes an builds a bunch of mining stations you can get a bottleneck from all the resources being reserved. 


So you have your check on over-weaponizing your stations without having to hard code it. You can do it, I do it, and in fact once we can design ship templates all the races in my games will do it.

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Post #: 37
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/28/2011 7:38:19 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Forum acting bad, double post, disregard

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Post #: 38
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/29/2011 4:24:17 AM   
the1sean


Posts: 854
Joined: 5/11/2010
From: Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evrett

Putting weapons on mining stations draws resources away from weapon components used in ships and stabases..if your AI goes an builds a bunch of mining stations you can get a bottleneck from all the resources being reserved. 

Dead mining stations and freighters puts a bigger bottleneck on your resource flow. Maybe an issue very early game before you have one or two trade treaties to supplement your supply lines, so that takes oversight for a little while. However, nothing is as awesome as a vast, tough, reliable supply chain that can hold it's own until the cavalry arrives.

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Post #: 39
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/29/2011 5:26:50 AM   
adecoy95


Posts: 420
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		considering that by following the adviser for ship construction in my last game i had somewhere in the range of over a thousand military ships for a 30 planet empire, i don't bother arming civilian stations.

plus any money you spend in defense just means less stations/ships for the civilian sector, i dont even give the freighters shields.

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Post #: 40
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/29/2011 3:34:01 PM   
Blueberry

 

Posts: 87
Joined: 12/16/2011
From: Distant Worlds
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

considering that by following the adviser for ship construction in my last game i had somewhere in the range of over a thousand military ships for a 30 planet empire, i don't bother arming civilian stations.

plus any money you spend in defense just means less stations/ships for the civilian sector, i dont even give the freighters shields.



Over a thousand military ships is actually quite interesting and the very opposite of my own strategy. Prefer quality over quantity. Not saying your ships are any less effective though and, indeed, no empire consisting of 30 planets is a small one. I manage my game manually without any automation whatsoever and therefore, in my case, in order to avoid some tedious micromanagement issues I prefer cruisers and capitals to anything less.

Makes sense to add some weapons and shields on mining stations and leave those to deal with minor threats themselves. As long as my military is there watching the systems and patrolling the borders, I don't care much for my freighters to be honest. They do just fine without my special attention. It's all down to personal preference and style.

Curious though, arming and 'armouring' mining stating or building respective military ships to patrol those.... In the long run, which of those would be more financially beneficial to some grand empire.

adecoy95, could you please tell us what was the relative ratio of military ship types. How many defense bases you had?

(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 41
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/29/2011 5:29:35 PM   
Modest

 

Posts: 172
Joined: 11/26/2011
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline 		It would be a good to have not only military grade weapons but also a civilian/security grade weapons. In that situations trading ships would be unable to have military grade weapons but could be armed for protection using civilian/security grade weapons. Whenever You resherch a new wepon (for exemple maxon blaster - yes, I know it is a starting weapon, but it is also only an example of my idea) than You get it as a military grade and civ/sec grade. Military is normal, but civ/security is X% weeker, Y% cheaper and Z% less maitandance is needed. How much it should be those X, Y and Z? I do not know - this is balancing issue. Of course some weapons would be only military grade (afther all what is the point of having civ/sec grade nuclear bombs for trader? Yesssss... Self protection ;P). Of course this is only an idea...

As for putting weapons on mining stations - I prefer to do so, but only a little so they can fight of single pirate ships, not more (two missiles for example).

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Post #: 42
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/29/2011 10:51:34 PM   
themetalcrow

 

Posts: 69
Joined: 1/24/2010
Status: offline 		i don't really feel they are gamey or exploits, especially for combatting pirates, cuz you still need to get ships there to really totally repel pirates.

i usually play normal pirates average distance and they do enough harm to my stations w/o weapons that i don't think arming them would be gamey to pirates.

i felt they might be an exploit to the player if the ai doesn't take advantage of this feature against pirates when the player can and does.
i haven't noticed if the ai does yet or not. has anybody else come across any armed stations from ai empires?

im playing ROTS but am curious if the ai empire arm stations at all in any version?

garrett

(in reply to Modest)
Post #: 43
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/29/2011 11:21:55 PM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		The only armed mining stations I have ever seen the computer have are ones that I have sold/given them. I don't consider arming them gamey, although I doubt it's overall effectiveness. Granted that it is sometimes worth arming some mining stations, but most of the time most of the stations aren't worth arming, in my experience. Remember pirates have an amusing tendency to run away from stationary targets once their shields drop below a certain level (50% in 1.7.0.7).

I am expecting with the upcoming changes to designs to be able to tell the computer to build armed mining stations. I don't think that this will be the massive advantage some people seem think it will be for the computer. But time will tell.

(in reply to themetalcrow)
Post #: 44
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/30/2011 3:23:52 AM   
balto

 

Posts: 1123
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		1000 ships and 30 planets. To get a 1000 ships, that would take quite a while to be able to build and sustain that. I take you have had the upper hand over the AI for the vast majority (90%) of the game?

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Post #: 45
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/30/2011 10:44:39 PM   
adecoy95


Posts: 420
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueberry


quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

considering that by following the adviser for ship construction in my last game i had somewhere in the range of over a thousand military ships for a 30 planet empire, i don't bother arming civilian stations.

plus any money you spend in defense just means less stations/ships for the civilian sector, i dont even give the freighters shields.



Over a thousand military ships is actually quite interesting and the very opposite of my own strategy. Prefer quality over quantity. Not saying your ships are any less effective though and, indeed, no empire consisting of 30 planets is a small one. I manage my game manually without any automation whatsoever and therefore, in my case, in order to avoid some tedious micromanagement issues I prefer cruisers and capitals to anything less.

Makes sense to add some weapons and shields on mining stations and leave those to deal with minor threats themselves. As long as my military is there watching the systems and patrolling the borders, I don't care much for my freighters to be honest. They do just fine without my special attention. It's all down to personal preference and style.

Curious though, arming and 'armouring' mining stating or building respective military ships to patrol those.... In the long run, which of those would be more financially beneficial to some grand empire.

adecoy95, could you please tell us what was the relative ratio of military ship types. How many defense bases you had?





here ya go, this is the first autosave before a crash, i admit i headdesked a bit because right before it crashed i had finished adjusting all my ships for new technologies and building a handful of energy converters at stars, while also finishing up world destroyers and even a WAR, (all in 30 mins lol) so, i dont have as many ships in this screen as i did

and by 30 planets, i mean around 30 CORE planets, i have alot of unfarmed colony worlds

oh and i prefer quality as much as anyone, but all you really need is lightly shielded ships with long range torpedoes, they will make short work of any enemy vessel, i have watched a single escort ship take on an entire pirate fleet

< Message edited by adecoy95 -- 12/30/2011 10:50:56 PM >

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Post #: 46
RE: weaponizing mining stations - 12/30/2011 11:04:31 PM   
the1sean


Posts: 854
Joined: 5/11/2010
From: Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adecoy95

here ya go, this is the first autosave before a crash, i admit i headdesked a bit because right before it crashed i had finished adjusting all my ships for new technologies and building a handful of energy converters at stars, while also finishing up world destroyers and even a WAR, (all in 30 mins lol)


OUCH! I feel your pain!

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Post #: 47
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