Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Scenario Design >> Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted

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Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 1/26/2012 3:24:34 AM

docgaun

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/26/2012
Status: offline

Dear all.
We are in the progress og updating and upgrading fire in the east, Fite, and there for we would like all the help we can get. If any of you have encoutered any bugs, og have any surggestions on futher options, events, flavour ect. please let us know.

If god and matrix games will, we will have more units to deal with in 4.0 and then we can make it even more historical.

Thanks in advance

Post #: 1

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 1/26/2012 3:04:19 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

Great news ! We didn't know you guys were working on this but we did intend to offer the use of the D21 map (we were waiting for the last updates to be done). Let us know if you'd be interested in it.

Cheers !

(in reply to docgaun)

Post #: 2

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 1/26/2012 4:25:43 PM

Oberst_Klink

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

Talking about updates...

I am currently revising Kharkov '43 and I am in the planning phase of Kiev '43... DOES anybody know where Goran or Mark is? The latter did 'Kharkov '43 - A gallop no more' and Goran is the bloke who created the Barbarossa map 6km/hex which I intend to use for Kiev '43!

Feedback?

Klink, Oberst

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Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 3

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 2/22/2012 9:17:56 PM

Telumar

Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Dear all.
We are in the progress og updating and upgrading fire in the east, Fite, and there for we would like all the help we can get. If any of you have encoutered any bugs, og have any surggestions on futher options, events, flavour ect. please let us know.

If god and matrix games will, we will have more units to deal with in 4.0 and then we can make it even more historical.

Thanks in advance

This is great news indeed! Have you followed Pionier's and Rum's FitE AAR in the German Forums?

As for more unit and event slots, this comes with 3.5. (this has already been leaked by the newest version of the Comprehensive Wishlist: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2998555 and here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3022382)

As for FitE:

There's a theatre recon bug: http://www.si-games.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20957. There is also a bug with occupation/reoccupation of Stalingrad in the same turn, but i can't exactly remember it. I believe the Soviets get the re-occupation bonus without having suffered the production loss. Something along that line..

Some proposals in no special order (there will be ENOUGH free event slots and units to incooperate these..

):

- Nation specific rifle squads/equipment for the Axis

- No more cease fire during the mud season. Instead a combination of shock, pestilence, lowered supply and supply radii.

- Panther tanks appear too early (first Panther tanks appear already in January 43!).

- Related to the Panther issue: Maybe add TOs for the German player, so he can decide on his own when which Panzerregiment will be
re-equipped.

- Soviet Supply Points: Variable Supply Points for Sevastopol, Stalingrad, Leningrad, Moscow and other Soviet cities that i forgot for the case they get encircled. 100% supply points only on the Eastern Map edge and maybe Gorki.

- In the case a city with a supply point gets encircled you can add 'honour' TOs/events to further simulate local stockpiles being consumed. This however requires honourful play and trust between the two opponents.

- Maybe add a 1941 Factory Evacuation 'Engine' a la McBride's DNO (no East Front scenario without that)

- Soviet Infantry Replacements should be dependent on held land and major cities. Cadres disbanded into the pool via special disband units - a la Soviet Union 1941 by Bob Cross. Worth a look.

- Lend/Lease could be handled via 'disband units', too. Loss of Murmansk and Archangelsk and the Caucasus (respectively lines of communications to Persia/Basra) should significantly drop Lend/Lease.

- Axis Allied units should reconstitute. Maybe the Italian units not as they withdraw in 43 anyway. But at least the Hungarian and the Romanian Army should reconstitute, otherwise the Soviet player is tempted to deliberately chase them down. With nation specific rifle squads/equipment and according replacement rates reconstitution of these units should take longer than for German units.

- You used the 'Donut of Death' bug as a feature for simulating poor VVS performance in the early stage of the war. This bug has been fixed with 3.4, so one should look into that again.

_____________________________

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(in reply to docgaun)

Post #: 4

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 2/22/2012 10:05:58 PM

secadegas

Posts: 275
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar

- You used the 'Donut of Death' bug as a feature for simulating poor VVS performance in the early stage of the war. This bug has been fixed with 3.4, so one should look into that again.

As a side note... for the people less used to TOAW's slang...

"Donut of Death: This happened when a unit had both short and long range aircraft. Attacking at the longer range got the short-range aircraft slaughtered."

As Telumar said it was fixed and now only aircraft that can reach the target hex will take losses.

(in reply to Telumar)

Post #: 5

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 2/23/2012 7:15:49 PM

LLv34_Snefens

Posts: 254
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline

We are really doing a complete rewrite rather than an update of the scenario, so OOB, ToEs, productions, events etc won't be copy/pasted over to the new one.
Those points you bring up are good though. Some of it were not in the original because of the limitations under TOAWv2.07 (I think that was the version number, right?), others were pure bugs or oversights on our part. I think we will be having a bit more thorough planning phase this time, instead of just jumping in at the deep end.

Still, sometimes I'm amazed how well the scenario turned out after all, despite all it's quirks, considering neither of us had ever touched the editor when we started back in the day.
Now, this one will be Doc and Teufel's 2nd and my 3rd :)

(in reply to Telumar)

Post #: 6

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 2/23/2012 9:41:17 PM

Telumar

Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LLv34_Snefens

We are really doing a complete rewrite rather than an update of the scenario, so OOB, ToEs, productions, events etc won't be copy/pasted over to the new one.

Great!

quote:

ORIGINAL: LLv34_Snefens

Those points you bring up are good though. Some of it were not in the original because of the limitations under TOAWv2.07 (I think that was the version number, right?), others were pure bugs or oversights on our part. I think we will be having a bit more thorough planning phase this time, instead of just jumping in at the deep end.

Still, sometimes I'm amazed how well the scenario turned out after all, despite all it's quirks, considering neither of us had ever touched the editor when we started back in the day.
Now, this one will be Doc and Teufel's 2nd and my 3rd :)

Yes i know. At that time we had no equipment files (ok i believe there already was BioEd..?) and even fewer events.

I definitely recommend to look at Bob Cross' Soviet Union 1941 scenario for his manpool/lend-lease mechanics.

Factory Evacuation for the Barbarossa phase would be great, too. It really adds flavour. Like in DnO, you can make the Soviet player actually defend certain places instead of running to the East.

Sorry for repeating myself here, but i like these two set-ups from the two scenarios very much.. :)

_____________________________

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(in reply to LLv34_Snefens)

Post #: 7

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 2/24/2012 10:15:06 PM

fogger

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline

Have you checked with Ron Morley? I contacted him a month ago and he advised that he still working on updates to his mods.

_____________________________

Thought for the day:
If you feel like doing some work, sit down and wait....... The feeling does go away.

(in reply to Telumar)

Post #: 8

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 3/4/2012 1:51:56 AM

Raver508

Posts: 208
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline

Wow. That really is wonderful news guys. Keep us posted.

(in reply to fogger)

Post #: 9

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 3/4/2012 1:23:54 PM

shunwick

Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline

docgaun,

Having a version with the PO programmed for both sides would be nice.

Best wishes,
Steve

(in reply to Raver508)

Post #: 10

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/6/2012 12:33:50 PM

fogger

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline

Hi Soren,
How are you going with your update of FITE?
Cheers
John

_____________________________

Thought for the day:
If you feel like doing some work, sit down and wait....... The feeling does go away.

(in reply to shunwick)

Post #: 11

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 7:45:10 AM

docgaun

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/26/2012
Status: offline

Hello everybody.

Thanks for all the tips. The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm. The structual limitations are still quite a bitch in Toaw, but still this will be the most massive senario ever.
Scale is 6km hex, regimental size.

Now if there was a way i could upload the oob i would, but the overall structure of fronts and armies are like this. Please bear in mind that there is a 4 army maximum on each front because of the collor coding

Final Structure in FitE2. Armies Forming in event "Reform Fronts" Renamed To Notes
Stavka 1st-8th Guards Armies
Karealian Front 7th, 14th, 58th Karealian Front
Leningrad Front 23rd, 42nd, 55th Leningrad Front
Volkov Front 48th, 52nd, 54th, 59th Volkov Front
Northwestern Front 8th,11th, 27th, 34th, Northwestern Front
Kalinin Front 29th,30th 31st, 39th, 1st Baltic 1st Baltic,
Western Front 3rd, 4th, 10th 13th, 3rd Belorussian
Reserve Front 16th, 20th, 22nd, 24th Reserve Front
Moscow Front 32nd, 33rd, 49th, 3rd Baltic
Central Front 19th, 21st, 65th 1st Belorussian
Bryansk Front 28th, 43rd, 50th, 61st 2nd Baltic 19th,28th From Western Front, 21st Central Foront
Voronezh Front 38th, 40th, 60th, 1st Ukranian 1st Ukrainian
Steppe Front 37th, 46th, 57th, 2nd Ukranian
Southwestern Front 5th,6th,12th,26th, 3rd Ukranian
Southern Front 9th, 18th, 44th 4th Ukranian
Crimean Front 51st, Seperate Costal Army (56th) Crimean
Caucasian Front 45th, 47th Caucasian Front

(in reply to fogger)

Post #: 12

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 7:48:24 AM

docgaun

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/26/2012
Status: offline

Here is the oob for soviet airformations, just for the fun of it, its not done yet.
I have cut out the game notes and historical data
Leningrad MD
137th BAP Murmansk Afrikanda 35 SB-2 Pe-2
145th IAP Murmansk Shangui 38 I153 Hurricane
147th IAP Murmansk Murmansk 36 I153 None
44th BAP Luga Staraya Russa 50 SB, 1MIG3 None
58th BAP Luga Staraya Russa 47 SB, 17Pe-2
156th IAP Luga Pushkin 36 I-16 Yak-1B
196th IAP Luga Luga 27 I-16
7th IAP Vyborg Suumerioki 69 I153, 60 Mig-3 None
65th SHAP Vyborg Grivochki 74 I15 None
159th IAP Vyborg Grivochki 15-I16, 58 Mig-3
205th BAP Vyborg Siverskaya 16 SB None
154th IAP Gatchina Pushkin 51 I15 P-40
155th IAP Gatchina Pushkin 27 I-16
157th IAP Gatchina Gorelovo 38 I-16
158th IAP Gatchina Pskov 46 I-16, 20 Yak 1
2nd BAP Leningrad Novgrod-Kreststy 39 SB 20 Ar-2 None
10th BAP Leningrad Saverskaya 50 SB None
201st BAP Leningrad Krasnogvardeisk 19 SB Noe
202nd BAP Leningrad Kaskolvka 13 SB
72nd BAP Petrozavodsk Bessovets 45 SB 4 Pe-2 Pe-2
153rd IAP Petrozavodsk Kasimov 66 I153 45 Mig-3
Leningrad PVO
19th IAP Leningrad Gorelovo 71 I15, La-5, La-5F, La-5FN
26th IAP Leningrad Uglovo-Maskushio 52 I15
44th IAP Leningrad Ropsha 64 I-16
191st IAP Leningrad Leningrad 34 I15
192nd IAP Leningrad Leningrad 28 I15
193rd IAP Leningrad Leningrad 21 I16 La-5, La-5F, La-5FN
194th IAP Leningrad Leningrad 11 I16
195th IAP Leningrad Leningrad 28 I16
Baltic MD Riga
9th BAP Panevezi Panevezi 54 SB
38th IAP Panevezi Tallin 63 I15, 1 I16
42nd IAP Panevezi Olita-Vilno 101 I15 Yak-1B
63rd BAP Panevezi Tallin-Kuusiku 63SB-2
12th IAP Shyaulyai Shyaulyai 60 I 16
31st BAP Shyaulyai Veinoden-Mitava 60 SB None
40th BAP Shyaulyai Vindava 54 SB
148th IAP Shyaulyai Libaya 69 I153, 60 Mig-3
241st SHAP Shyaulyai Mitava 13 I 15, 1 SB Il-2
15th IAP Kaunas Kovno 62 Mig3 62 I16
31st IAP Kaunas Kovno 43 Mig 1/3, 32 I16
35th BAP Kaunas Tartu 67 SB
50th BAP Kaunas Hapsalu 34 SB, 5 Pe-2
10th IAP Riga Shavli 23 Mig 3, 36 I-16 P-40
46th BAP Riga Shavli 61 SB None
54th BAP Riga Poverchiayi-Vilno 68 SB, 7 Pe-2
61st SHAP Riga Keidany 80 I15, 5 IL-2 Il-2
240th IAP Riga Riga 12 I-16
236th IAP Pskov Pskov 22 I16
237th IAP Pskov Pskov 25 I15 Yak-1
239th IAP Pskov Pskov 14 I 16
161st IAP Lepel Lepel 42 I16
Baltic PVO
21st IAP Riga Riga 65 I16
Western MD
13th BAP Belostok Ross 51 SB, 8 Pe2
41st IAP Belostok Belostok 54 Mig, 22 I16
124th IAP Belostok Lomzha 70Mig-3, 29 I-16
126th IAP Belostok Belsk-Podlyaski 50Mig3- 23I16
128th BAP Belostok Ulla 41 SB
129 IAP Belostok Zabludov 61Mig3, 57I15
33th IAP Pruzhany Pruzhany 44 I16
39th BAP Pruzhany Pinsk 43 SB 9 Pe-2
74th SHAP Pruzhany Pruzhany 62 I15, 8 Il.2 Il-2
123rd IAP Pruzhany Strigovo 61 I15, 20 Yak1 None
16th BAP Lida Zheludok 24 SB, 37 Pe-2
120th IAP Lida Lida 53 I15
122nd IAP Lida Lida 75 I15/I16
127th IAP Lida Skidel 72 I15
190th SHAP Lida Lida 32 I15
6th BAP Vitebsk Vitebsk 19 SB
43rd BAP Vitebsk Vitebsk 46 Su-2 None
121st SBAP Vitebsk Bykhov 56 SB
209th BAP Vitebsk Smolensk-Balbaso 25 SU
218th SBAP Vitebsk Vitebsk 14 SB Il-2
24th BAP Bobruisk Bobruisk 48 SB
97th BAP Bobruisk Bobruisk 52 SU-2
125th BAP Bobruisk Mogilev 38 SB
130th BAP Bobruisk Zyabrovka-Kobrovichi 38 SB None
160th IAP Mogilev Balbasovo 66 I-15 Lagg-3
161st IAP Mogilev Balbasovo 64 I16
162nd IAP Mogilev Orsha 64 I16
163rd IAP Mogilev Orsha 59 I16
185th IAP Machulische Machulische 16 I16
49th IAP Orsha Dvinsk 67 I16
Western PVO
184th IAP Vitebsk Vitebsk 42 I16
Kiev MD
17th IAP Rovno Lyubitov Kolki 26 I16, 26 I15
46th IAP Rovno Dubno 56 I-16
52nd BAP Rovno Ovruch 45 SB
89th IAP Rovno Lutsk 71 I16
253rd IAP Rovno Rovno 14 I15
23rd IAP Lvov Lvov 58 Mig 3, 29 I16
28th IAP Lvov Lvov 51 I16
66th SHAP Lvov Komarno 58 I15, 8 Il2 Il-2
164th IAP Lvov Kutovitse 49I15/16
86th BAP Tarnopol Trembovlya 54 SB, 10 Pe-2 Pe-2
87th IAP Tarnopol Tranopol 61 I-16 4 Mig-3
92nd IAP Tarnopol Brody 72 I16/15
226th BAP Tarnopol Chertkov 43 Su2 None
227th BAP Tarnopol Olshanitsa 61Su2 None
299th SHAP Tarnopol Tranopol 29 I15 Il-2
48th BAP Izyaslav Izyaslav 29 SB, 35 Pe-2 Pe-2
224th BAP Izyaslav Yarmolintsy 6 SB None
225th BAP Izyaslav Starokonstantinov 10 SB None
33th BAP Berdichev Belaya Tserkov 34 SB None
94th BAP Berdichev Ovruch 33 SB None
136th BAP Berdichev Berdichev 4 SB,Yak2-4 None
138th BAP Berdichev Uzin 27SB None
88th IAP Vinnitsa Vinnitsa 71 I16 Lagg-3
248th IAP Vinnitsa Vinnitsa 4 I16
252nd IAP Vinnitsa Vinnitsa 2 I16
242nd BAP Sarny Sarny 17 I15
243rd SHAP Sarny Sarny 20 Il-2 None
20th IAP Dublyany Sambor-Drogobych 56 Yak 1 Yak-7B
62nd SHAP Dublyany Stryi 72 I15
91st IAP Dublyany Sudilkov 32 Yak1
103rd BAP Dublyany Dublyany 17 Su None
165th IAP Dublyany Khristianovka 40 I16
12th IAP (SW formation) Stanislav Stanislav 66 I16
149th IAP Stanislav Chernovitsy 67 I16,64 Mig-3
247th IAP Stanislav Stanislav 19 I15 Yak-1B
2nd IAP Vasilikov Vasilikov 57 I-16 Lagg-3
43rd IAP Vasilikov Vasilikov 54 I-16
254th IAP Vasilikov Vasilikov 9-I16
255th IAP Vasilikov Vasilikov 13 I16
Odessa MD
4th IAP Beltsy Kishinev 50 Mig-3
45th BAP Beltsy Tiaspol 54SB, 5 Pe-2
55th IAP Beltsy Beltsy 64 I16, 20 Mig 3 None
146th IAP Beltsy Kacha-Tarutino 20 I16, 57 Mig-3 None
211th BAP Beltsy Kotovsk 26 I15
5th BAP Kishinev Akkerman 35SB, 25 Pe2. None
8th BAP Kishinev Bendery 24 SB
67th IAP Kishinev Bolgrad 64 I16, 20 Mig 3
131st IAP Kishinev Krivoi Rog 67 I-16, 5Mig3 Lagg-3
166th IAP Odessa Uman-Kolomyya 42 I16 Lagg-3
168th IAP Odessa Kolosivka 62 I-16 Lagg-3, Yak-9
210th BAP Odessa Kirovograd 25 I15
213th BAP Odessa Odessa 21 SB
214th BAP Odessa Odessa 11 SU
232nd BAP Odessa Kirovograd 20 SB 5 Pe-2
69th IAP PVO Odessa 70 I-16 5 Mig-3 Yak-1
Transcaucasus MD
1st IAP Batumi Vaziani 62 I16
84th BAP Batumi Batumi 66I16/15
133rd IAP Batumi Mikha-Tsakaya 54 I15
6th TBAP Bolshie Shiraki Bolshie Shiraki 33 DB-3
1st DBAP Bolshie Shiraki Kirovbad 54 DB-3
42nd DBAP Bolshie Shiraki Kirovbad 20 DB-3
83rd DBAP Bolshie Shiraki Bolshie Shiraki 52 DB-3
45th IAP Yerevan Adzhibukul 38 I-16
36th IAP PVO Parsagat 45 I16
68th IAP Baku PVO Mari Alekseevka ?? I16
25th IAP Baku PVO Nasonaya ?? I16
35th IAP Baku PVO Batumi 48 I16
40th IAP Baku PVO Pokrova- Baranovka 47 I16 ??
50th IAP Baku PVO Nasonaya 53 I 16
82nd IAP Baku PVO Biny ?? I16
Arkhangelsk MD
80th BAP Arkhangelsk Yagodnik 52 SB
152nd IAP Arkhangelsk Kegostrov-Lavashovo 38 I-16
Kharkov MD
4th SHAP Chuguev Volchansk 64 Il2
60th SHAP Chuguev Lebedin 27 SB
135th BAP Chuguev Kharkov 10 SB 4 Pe-2
140th BAP Chuguev Sescha 54 SB, 10 Pe2
217th SHAP Chuguev Chuguev 22 SB
282th IAP Chuguev Chuguev 30 I15
Moscow MD
95th IAP Kalinin Kalinin Pe-3
99th BAP Kalinin Rzhev 46 SB None
132nd BAP Kalinin Kirvoograd 54 SB
134th BAP Kalinin Podolsk 33 SB None
170th IAP Kalinin Sescha 24 I15, 8 Mig-3
208th BAP Vyazma Vyazma 14 Pe-3
215th SHAP Vyazma Smolensk 15 I15 Il-2
162nd Reserve Reserve Zyabrovka 64th I16
163rd Reserve Reserve Smolensk ??
164th Reserve Reserve Smolensk ??
165th Reserve Reserve Smolensk ??
11th IAP Moscow Kubinka 68 I-16
16th IAP Moscow Lyubertsy 66 I16
24th IAP Moscow Kubinka 41 Lagg3
27th IAP Moscow Klin 56 I16 Mig 3
34th IAP Moscow Lyubertsy 60 I16
176th IAP Moscow Moscow 33 I16
177th IAP Moscow Moscow 27 I 16
178th IAP Moscow Moscow 22 I16
233rd IAP Moscow Moscow 28 I16
309th IAP Moscow Moscow 18 I16
North Caucasus MD
272nd IAP Yeisk Yeisk 14 I15
273rd IAP Yeisk Yeisk 15 I16
274th IAP Yeisk Yeisk 26 I15
275th BAP Stavropol Stavropol 18 SB
Orel MD
169th IAP Roslav Roslav 26 I16 None
Long Range Aviation Stavka Reserve
53rd DBAP Leningrad Krichevitsy 56 DB-3
200th DBAP Leningrad Krichevitsy 38 DB-3
7th TBAP Leningrad Soltsy 68 TB-3
7th DBAP Velilkie Luki Yedrova 30 DB-3
203rd DBAP Velilkie Luki Yedrova 48 DB-3
204th DBAP Velilkie Luki Yedrova 33 DB-3
100th DBAP Bryansk Orel 64 DB-3 7 IL4
219th DBAP Bryansk Bryansk 48 IL-4
223rd DBAP Bryansk Karachev 6-IL4
51st DBAP Kursk Kursk 62 DB-3
220th DBAP Kursk Kursk 16 DB-3
221st DBAP Kursk Schigry 36 DB-3
222nd DBAP Kursk Oboyan 48 DB-3
96th DBAP Pukhovichi Borovskoe 50 Il-4
207th DBAP Pukhovichi Pukhovichi 16 Il-4
1st TBAP Pukhovichi Shalikovka 41 TB-3
98th DBAP Orel Shatlovo 70 Il-4
212th DBAP Orel Smolensk 61 IL-4
3rd TBAP Orel Sescha 52 TB-3
8th DBAP Zaporozhe Zaporozhe 69 Il-4
11th DBAP Zaporozhe Zaporozhe 54 IL-4
21st DBAP Zaporozhe Saki 72 Il-4
81st DBAP Rostov Novocherkassk 61 Il4
228th DBAP Rostov Novocherkassk 10 Il-4
229th DBAP Rostov Rostov 56 Il-4
231st DBAP Rostov Rostov 19 Il-4
5th DBPA Vozdvizhenka Vozdvizhenka 22 DB-3
10th DBAP Vozdvizhenka Vozdvizhenka 34 DB-3
14th DBAP Pereyaslavka Komsomolsk 43 DB-3
22nd DBAP Pereyaslavka Komsomolsk ?? DB-3
14th TBAP Zhitomir Borispol 38 TB-3, 9 TB-7
90th DBAP Zhitomir Skomorokhin 60 DB-3
93rd DBAP Zhitomir Skomorokhin 58 DB-3
Arriving Airforce
IAP:
1st NKVD IAP 10-10-1941 Mig-1 None
6th IAP (NW) 23-07-1941 64 I-16
6th IAP (SW) 08-09-1941 I-16 Lagg-3.
8th IAP 15-07-1941 I-16 Yak-1
9th IAP 16-07-1941 I-16 Hurricanes
11th IAP PVO 16-02-1943 Pe-2 nightfighter?
12th IAP (2nd formation) 10-10-1941 Yak-1
13th IAP 15-07-1941 Mig-3 Yak-1
29th IAP 12-07-1941 I-16 Hurricanes
32nd IAP 11-07-1941 Yak1 Yak-3/7/9
53rd IAP 14-11-1944 ??
84th IAP 30-07-1941 I-16,I-15 Lagg-3.??
116th IAP 24-12-1942 Lagg-3 La-5
171st IAP 21-09-1941 Mig-3 La-5
172nd IAP 10-06-1941 Yak-1 Yak-7
179th IAP 28-08-1941 Mig-3 Hurricane
180th IAP 24-06-1941 Mig-3 Hurricane
181st IAP 19-08-1941 Lagg-3 La-5
182nd IAP 28-08-1941 Yak-1
183rd IAP 13-09-1941 Mig-3 Yak-1/9
186th IAP 22-09-1941 Mig-3 Yak-1
188th IAP 17-10-1941 I-16 Yak-1
197th IAP 24-07-1941 I-16, Hurricanes Yak-9
238th IAP Start Panevezys Lagg-3 Disbanded 42
246th IAP 20-10-1941 Lagg-3 Kittyhawk
249th IAP Start SW Front? I-15/I-16 Yak-1
263rd IAP 22-08-1941 Mig-3 La-5
265th IAP 23-11-1941 Yak-1 Yak-9
267th IAP 15-07-1941 Lagg3 Yak-9
269th IAP 23-11-1941 Lagg3 Yak-9
270th IAP 01-08-1941 I-15/I-16 Lagg3
271st IAP 10-07-1941 I-15/I-16 Lagg3
272nd IAP 0109-1941 Lagg-3 La-5
273rd IAP 01-08-1941 Yak-1
274th IAP 01-08-1941 Mig3 La-5
282nd IAP 07-09-1941 I-15, + I16
283rd IAP 26-08-1941 I-16, Lagg3 Yak7b
286th IAP 29-10-1941 I-16, Yak-1
287th IAP 26-06-1941 I-16, Hurricanes Yak-7
291st IAP 27-11-1941 Lagg3 La-5
292nd IAP 11-09-1941 I-16 La-5?
293rd IAP 11-09-1941 Yak-1 Yak-9
294th IAP 11-09-1941 Hurricanes
295th IAP 31-07-1941 Lagg3
296th IAP 31-07-1941 I-16, Yak-1
297th IAP 31-07-1941 Lagg3 La-5
298th IAP 01-07-1941 I-16 P-39
347th IAP 12-09-1941 I-15, Lagg3 Yak9
348th IAP 01-07-1941 Yerevan I-15 Lagg3
352nd IAP 01-06-1944 La-7
355th IAP 01-11-1944 La-7
368th IAP 11-12-1944 La-7
402nd IAP 02-07-1941 Yak-1 Yak-3-7-9
409th IAP 17-10-1944 Yak 9b/d
415th IAP 24-07-1941 Lagg3 La5
416th IAP 02-10-1942 Lagg3
423rd IAP 20-07-1941 I-16 Mig 3
425th IAP 10-03-1942 Yak-1
427th IAP 29-10-1941 Yak-1 Yak-3
428th IAP 25-07-1941 Mig-3
429th IAP 19-09-1941 Lagg3
431st IAP 17-02-1942 Lagg3 Yak-7-9
434th IAP 22-08-1941 Lagg3
435th IAP 06-10-1941 Mig-3, Hurricane La-5?
436th IAP 01-08-1941 Yak-1 Kittihawk
437th IAP 23-05-1942 Lagg3 La5
438th IAP 28-11-1941 Lagg3 La-5
439th IAP 11-10-1941 ?? ??
440th IAP 26-07-1941 Mig 3 Lagg 3
446th IAP 16-09-1941 I-16 ??
482nd IAP 23-11-1941 ?? ??
483rd IAP 15-07-1942 Yak-7 ??
484th IAP 18-02-1942 Yak-1 ??
485th IAP 06-03-1942 Hurricanes None
486th IAP 26-12-1941 Lagg-3 La5N
494th IAP 15-02-1942 Yak-1 Cobra
508th IAP 01-05-1942 Lagg-3 Yak-7
509th IAP 25-09-1941 Mig-3 Lagg3
510th IAP 19-03-1942 Lagg-3
512th IAP 07-10-1941 Lagg-3 None
513th IAP 29-10-1941 Lagg-3 Yak-9
515th IAP 01-10-1941 Yak-1 Yak-9
516th IAP 25-01-1942 Yak-1 Yak-7
517th IAP 14-04-1942 ?? ??
518th IAP 16-01-1942 Yak-1 Yak-7
519th IAP 07-10-1941 Mig-3 Yak-3
520th IAP 22-09-1941 Yak-1
521st IAP 06-10-1941 Lagg-3
522nd IAP 25-12-1941 Lagg-3 La-5
523rd IAP 03-10-1941 Lagg-3 La-5/la-7
524th IAP 13-10-1941 I-16 Lagg-3
526th IAP 01-10-1941 Mig-3
530th IAP 07-07-1944 ?? ??
563rd IAP 21-09-1941 Mig-3 Yak-1
580th IAP 31-03-1942 Yak-1
581st IAP 26-04-1942 Yak-1
591st IAP 12-10-1941 Yak-1(I-16) La5
605th IAP 28-11-1941 ??
609th IAP 17-10-1941 Hurricanes La-5
611th IAP 17-12-1942 Yak-1 Yak-3
630th IAP 11-11-1941 I-16 ??
653rd IAP 11-11-1941 I-15bis Yak-1??
659th IAP 04-01-1942 Yak-1 Yak-3-7-9
718th IAP 10-01-1942 ?? ??
721st IAP 02-12-1941 ?? La-7
728th IAP 16-01-1941 ?? ??
729th IAP 28-04-1944 ?? ??
736th IAP PVO
737th IAP 24-05-1942 Mig 3 Yak-7
739th IAP 24-01-1941 ?? ??
743rd IAP 14-01-1942 Hurricane Yak 3-7-9?
744th IAP 18-01-1942 ?? Yak-3
745th IAP 19-03-1942 ??
760th IAP 15-12-1941 Hurricanes/P-40 La-5
761st IAP 09-07-1943 Yak 7b
772nd IAP 22-02-1942 ?? ??
773rd IAP 06-05-1942 Lagg3 La-5
774th IAP 17-03-1942 ?? ??
778th IAP 15-07-1942 Yak-1
787th IAP 03-03-1942 La-5
789th IAP 07-03-1942 ?? ??
790th IAP 15-05-1942 Lagg-3 La-5
796th IAP 27-03-1942 Lagg-3
805th IAP 07-05-1942 Lagg-3 La-5
812th IAP 26-07-1942 Yak-1 Yak-9
813th IAP 16-07-1942 ?? ??
814th IAP 14-04-1942 Yak-1
821st IAP 10-05-1942 Yak-1 Spitfire
831st IAP 24-04-1942 Hurricane
832nd IAP 24-04-1942 Hurricane ??
835th IAP 14-04-1942 Hurricane
837th IAP 14-04-1942 Hurricane
841st IAP 14-04-1942 ??
845th IAP 24-06-1942 Yak-7 Yak-9
848th IAP 07-07-1944 ??
862nd IAP 15-05-1942 Lagg-3 Hurricanes
863rd IAP 15-05-1942 Lagg-3 La-5
866th IAP 04-06-1942 Yak-1 Yak-7
867th IAP 28-08-1942 Lagg3 Yak 1b
875th IAP 11-06-1942 Yak-7
896th IAP 24-07-1942 ?? ??
897th IAP 28-10-1942 ?? ??
900th IAP 15-08-1942 Yak-1 Yak-9
909th IAP 17-10-1944 Yak 9 D/B
926th IAP 22-06-1942 Lagg-3 ??
927th IAP 22-06-1942 Lagg-3/La5 La-5FN
937th IAP 25-06-1943 La-5 La 5FN
975th IAP 21-08-1942 Yak-1 Yak-1B
976th IAP 21-08-1942 Yak7 Yak-9
977th IAP 21-08-1942 ??
979th IAP 21-08-1942 Lagg3- La5
Guards IAP
1st GIAP 06-12-1941 Yak-1 Yak-7/3
2nd GIAP 06-12-1941 La-5(Change?) La-7
3rd GIAP 06-12-1941 La-5(Change?) La-7
5th GIAP 06-12-1941 La-5 La-7
9th GIAP 13-06-1942 P-39 Cobra None
11th GIAP 03-07-1942 La-5 La-5FN
12th GIAP PVO 03-07-1942 Yak-7B Yak-9U
14th GIAP 07-03-1942 Yak-7B Yak-9U
16th GIAP 07-03-1942 P-39 Cobra None
18th GIAP 03-03-1942 Yak-7B Yak-3
19th GIAP 04-04-1942 P-39 Cobra None
20th GIAP 04-04-1942 P-40 Yak-9U
21st GIAP 03-05-1942 P-39 Cobra None
26th GIAP PVO 22-11-1942 Hurricane Spitfire
27th GIAP PVO 22-11-1942 Yak-1B Yak-9U
28th GIAP 22-11-1942 P-39 Cobra None
29th GAIP 01-12-1942 Yak-9D Yak-9U
30th GIAP 24-03-1943 P-39 Cobra
31st GIAP 22-11-1942 La5?
32nd GIAP 12-06-1942 Yak7b La-7
38th GIAP PVO 31-03-1943 Yak1B Yak-3
39th GIAP PVO 31-03-1943 P-40 P-39 Cobra
40th GIAP 08-02-1943 La-5F La-7
41st GIAP 08-02-1943 ?? ??
42nd GIAP 08-02-1943 Yak 7-9
53rd GIAP 03-02-1943 Yak-9D Yak-9U
54th GIAP 03-02-1943 Yak-9D Yak-9U
55th GIAP 03-02-1943 Yak-9 Cobra (Removed)
56th GIAP 08-02-1943 Yak 7/9
57th GIAP 08-02-1943 P-39 Cobra
63rd GIAP 18-04-1943 La 5F La-7
64th GIAP 21-03-1943 ?? ??
65th GIAP 18-03-1943 ?? ??
66th GIAP 19-03-1943 Yak-7
67th GIAP 21-03-1943 P-39 Cobra
68th GIAP 18-03-1943 P-39 Cobra
69th GIAP 09-07-1943 P-39 Cobra
72nd GIAP 18-03-1943 Yak-7 P-39 Cobra
73rd GIAP 21-03-1943 Yak9, Yak7
84th GIAP 31-03-1943 Yak 9?
85th GIAP 18-03-1943 Yak-9D Yak-3
88th GIAP 12-05-1943 La-5F La-7
86th GIAP 01-05-1943 Yak-3? ??
89th GIAP 01-05-1943 Yak-7/9
100th GIAP 17-06-1943 P-39 Cobra
101st GIAP 17-06-1943 P-39 Cobra
102nd GIAP PVO 07-07-1943 Spitfire
103rd GIAP PVO 07-07-1943 P-39 Cobra
104th GIAP 24-08-1943 Yak 9?7?
106th GIAP 25-08-1943 Yak-7 Yak-3
107th GIAP 28-08-1943 Yak-9D Yak-3
111th GIAP 24-08-1943 La-5 La-7
112th GIAP 24-08-1943 Yak-9D Yak-3
113rd GIAP 25-08-1943 La-5FN La-7
115th GIAP 16-10-1943 Yak-1B Yak-9U
116th GIAP 03-09-1943 Yak-1B Yak-3
117th GIAP 03-09-1943 Yak-9D Yak-9U
129th GIAP 09-10-1943 La-5FN La-7
133rd GIAP 09-10-1943 Yak-9D Yak-9U
137th GIAP 10-06-1944 LA-5FN La-7
139th GIAP 14-04-1944 293 Yak-9U None
145th GIAP 10-09-1943 Yak-9D Yak-9U
146th GIAP 10-09-1943 Yak-9D Yak-9U
147th GIAP 10-09-1943 La-5NF La-7
148th GIAP 09-10-1943 Yak-7B Yak-1B
149th GIAP 02-07-1944 293 Yak-9U None
150th GIAP 07-02-1944 294 Yak-9U None
151st GIAP 02-07-1944 294 Yak-9U None
152nd GIAP 05-02-1944 294 Yak-9U None
153rd GIAP 05-02-1944 294 Yak 9U None
156th GIAP 05-02-1944 ?? ??
159th GIAP 14-04-1944 La-5FN La-7
163rd GIAP 14-04-1944 La-5FN La-7
168th GIAP 05-02-1944 ?? ??
176th GIAP 19-08-1944 ??
177th GIAP 02-07-1944 La-5FN La-7
178th GIAP 02-07-1944 La-5FN La-7
179th GIAP 02-07-1944 La-5FN La-7
180th GIAP 19-08-1944 La-5FN La-7
181st GIAP 19-08-1944 La-5FN La-7
211th GIAP 27-10-1944 !! P-39 Cobra
212th GIAP 27-10-1944 Yak-9U
213th GIAP 27-10-1944 P-39 Cobra

SHAP:
2nd SHAP 01-sep-41 Il-2 Il-2M
37th SHAP 01-08-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
41st SHAP 10-10-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
55th SHAP 08-07-1941 Pe-2 Boston A-20
57th SHAP 07-08-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
64th SHAP 11-10-1944 Il-2 Il-2M
103th SHAP 28-06-1941 Su-2 Il-2
106th SHAP 01-05-1944 Il-2 Il-2M
136th SHAP 12-06-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
150th SHAP 06-08-1941 Il-2? Il-2M
174th SHAP 04-08-1941 Il-2 None
175th SHAP 22-08-1941 Il-2
198th SHAP 01-09-1941 Il-2
210th SHAP 24-05-1942 Il-2
211th SHAP 19-03-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
214th SHAP 14-09-1941 Il-2
218th SHAP 31-08-1941 Il-2
230th SHAP 06-09-1941 Il-2 None
232nd SHAP 17-07-1941 Il-2
235th SHAP 21-07-1941 I-15 Il-2
237th SHAP Start Bryansk Il-2
245th SHAP 25-08-1941 Il-2
282nd SAP 09-07-1941 Il-2
285th SHAP 09-07-1941 Il-2 None
288th SHAP 29-08-1941 Il-2 None
289th SHAP 26-08-1941 Il-2
312th SHAP 23-10-1941 Il-2
313th SHAP 26-10-1941 Il-2
397th SHAP 11-10-1944 Il-2
407th SAP 01-11-1942 Il-2
431st SAP 20-12-1941 Il-2
431st SHAP 13-09-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
502nd SHAP 01-08-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
503rd SHAP 09-07-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
504th SHAP 01-10-1941 Il-2 None
505th SHAP 10-10-1941 Il-2 None
525th SHAP 18-09-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
539th SHAP 11-10-1944 Il-2 Il-2M
565th SHAP 05-10-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
566th SHAP 22-11-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
567th SHAP 29-03-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
568th SHAP 17-03-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
569th SHAP 11-11-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
570th SHAP 10-08-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
571st SHAP 29-05-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
590th SHAP 10-07-1941 Il-2 None
593rd SHAP 24-06-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
594th SHAP 24-06-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
597th SHAP 23-03-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
598th SHAP 27-01-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
603rd SHAP 23-03-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
606th SHAP 07-10-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
608th SHAP 17-10-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
611th SHAP 11-11-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
614th SHAP 07-07-1942 Il-2 None
615th SHAP 06-08-1944 Il-2 Il-2M
617th SHAP 05-09-1942 Il-2 None
618th SHAP 20-08-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
621st SHAP 14-07-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
622nd SHAP 14-07-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
624th SHAP 27-12-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
625th SHAP 07-01-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
637th SHAP 21-07-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
639th SHAP 24-06-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
655th SHAP 10-12-1941 Il-2 None
657th SHAP 21-07-1942 Il-2
658th SHAP 22-12-1941 Il-2
660th SAP 31-01-1942 ??
661st SAP 10-01-1942 ?? Il-2M
662nd SAP 31-01-1942 ??
667th SHAP 15-10-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
668th SHAP 21-01-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
671st SHAP 12-03-1942 Il-2 None
672nd SHAP 20-07-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
673rd SHAP 29-12-1941 Il-2 None
683rd SHAP 17-01-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
685th SHAP 27-07-1942 Il-2 None
686th SHAP 15-11-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
687th SHAP 29-12-1941 Il-2 None
688th SHAP 27-11-1941 Il-2 None
694th SHAP 27-11-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
703rd SHAP 10-12-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
704th SHAP 21-12-1941 Il-2 None
707th SHAP 01-01-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
715th SHAP 26-06-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
723rd SHAP 01-04-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
724th SHAP 23-11-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
735th SHAP 01-02-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
765th SHAP 15-02-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
775th SHAP 30-05-1942 Il-2 None
783rd SHAP 20-08-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
784th SHAP 26-06-1942 Il-2 None
800th SHAP 26-03-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
801st SHAP 24-06-1942 Il-2 None
805th SHAP 24-06-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
806th SHAP 10-09-1941 Il-2 Il-2M
807th SHAP 27-07-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
808th SHAP 07-11-1941 Il-2 None
809th SHAP 13-06-1942 ?? Il-2M
810th SHAP 07-06-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
811th SHAP 24-05-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
820th SHAP 19-05-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
825th SHAP 05-07-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
826th SHAP 26-05-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
828th SHAP 05-04-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
839th SHAP 14-04-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
843rd SHAP 22-10-1942 Il-2 None
858th SHAP 20-05-1944 Il-2 Il-2M
872nd SHAP 24-06-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
873rd SHAP 14-07-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
874th SHAP 09-06-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
893rd SHAP 06-07-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
904th SHAP 02-06-1944 ?? Il-2M
943rd SHAP 13-08-1942 ?? Il-2M
945th SHAP 01-10-1942 ?? Il-2M
946th SHAP 21-10-1942 ?? Il-2M
947th SHAP 15-04-1943 ?? Il-2M
948th SHAP 15-04-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
949th SHAP 11-06-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
950th SHAP 22-10-1942 Il-2 None
951st SHAP 23-03-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
952nd SHAP 18-04-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
953rd SHAP 14-04-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
954th SHAP 13-09-1942 Il-2 Il-2M
955th SHAP 30-03-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
956th SHAP 19-02-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
957th SHAP 09-05-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
958th SHAP 07-07-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
989th SHAP 12-07-1944 Il-2 Il-2M
995th SHAP 01-04-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
996th SHAP 30-03-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
999th SHAP 09-05-1943 Il-2 Il-2M
GSHAP
6th GSHAP 16-01-1942 141 Il-2M
7th GSHAP 07-03-1942 141 Il-2M
15th GSHAP 07-03-1942 141 Il-2M
17th GSHAP 08-03-1942 142 Il-2M
33rd GSHAP 22-11-1942 Il-2M
43rd GSHAP 08-02-1943 Il-2M
58th GSHAP 25-04-1943 Il-2M
59th GSHAP 08-02-1943 Il-2M
70th GSHAP 18-03-1943 Il-2M
71st GSHAP 18-03-1943 Il-2M
74th GSHAP 18-03-1943 Il-2M
75th GSHAP 18-03-1943 Il-2M
76th GSHAP 18-03-1943 Il-2M
77th GSHAP 18-03-1943 Il-2M
78th GSHAP 20-03-1943 Il-2M
79th GSHAP 18-03-1943 Il-2M
81st GSHAP 23-03-1943 Pe-2
90th GSHAP 09-07-1943 Il-2M
91st GSHAP 09-07-1943 Il-2M
92nd GSHAP 09-07-1943 Il-2M
93rd GSHAP 03-06-1943 Il-2M
94th GSHAP 03-06-1943 Il-2M
95th GSHAP 03-06-1943 Il-2M
108th GSHAP 24-08-1943 Il-2M
109th GSHAP 24-08-1943 Il-2M
110th GSHAP 24-08-1943 Il-2M
118th GSHAP 03-09-1943 Il-2M
130th GSHAP 03-09-1943 Il-2M
131st GSHAP 03-09-1943 Il-2M
132nd GSHAP 03-09-1943 Il-2M
136th GSHAP 23-10-1943 Il-2M
140th GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
141st GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
142nd GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
143rd GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
144th GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
154th GSHAP 04-06-1944 Il-2M
155th GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
165th GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
166th GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
167th GSHAP 05-02-1944 Il-2M
173rd GSHAP 19-08-1944 Il-2M
174th GSHAP 19-08-1944 Il-2M
175th GSHAP 19-08-1944 Il-2M
187th GSHAP 27-10-1944 Il-2M
188th GSHAP 27-10-1944 Il-2M
189th GSHAP 27-10-1944 Il-2M
190th GSHAP 27-10-1944 Il-2M
BAP:
18th BAP 16-11-1941 Pe-2
30th BAP 11-07-1941 Pe.2
32nd BAP 16-07-1941 Pe-2
34th BAP 16-11-1941 Pe-2
38th BAP 16-07-1941 Pe-2
57th BAP 07-08-1941 ?? Boston A-20
138th BAP 28-08-1941 Pe-2
150th BAP 16-07-1941 Pe-2
173rd BAP 06-10-1941 Pe-2
244th BAP Start Kiev SB (forming) Boston A-20
260th BAP 20-08-1941 SB Boston A-20
261st BAP 27-08-1941 Pe-2
275th BAP 14-09-1941 Pe-2
277th BAP 10-07-1941 SB Boston A-20
279th BAP 06-07-1941 Pe-2
284th BAP 07-10-1941 Pe-2
288th BAP 22-09-1941 Su-2 Pe-2
321st BAP 06-10-1941 Pe-2
367th BAP 23-11-1941 Pe-2
408th BAP 12-08-1944 Pe-2
445th BAP 02-11-1944 Tu-2
452nd BAP 09-09-1941 Pe-2
453rd BAP 07-08-1941 DB-3 ??
454th BAP 23-11-1941 Boston A-20
454th BAP (2nd) 24-11-1944 Tu-2
507th BAP 06-07-1942 Pe.2
514th BAP 01-10-1941 Pe-2
527th BAP 28-06-1942 Pe-2
540th BAP 01-10-1944 Pe-2
587nd BAP 01-10-1941 Pe-2 None
608th BAP 17-10-1941 Pe-2
640th BAP 09-07-1942 Boston A-20
745th BAP 05-02-1942 Pe-2
778th BAP 06-07-1942 Pe-2
779th BAP 16-07-1942 Pe-2
780th BAP 23-10-1942 Pe-2
797th BAP 16-06-1942 ??
804th BAP 22-10-1942 Pe-2
854th BAP 25-10-1942 Pe-2
860th BAP 14-06-1942 B-3 Boston
861st BAP 26-06-1942 ??
974th BAP 21-08-1942
990th BAP 19-01-1943 ??
GBAP
1st GBAP 26-12-1944 TB-3
2nd GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
3rd GBAP 26-12-1944 IL-4
4th GBAP 06-12-1941 Pe-2
5th GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
6th GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
7th GBAP 26-12-1944 Tu-2
8th GBAP 07-03-1942 Pe-2
9th GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
10th GBAP 07-03-1942 Pe-2
11th GBAP 26-12-1944 Tu-2
12th GIAP 26-12-1944 Tu-2
13th GBAP 07-03-1942 B-25
14th GBAP 26-12-1944 Tu-2
15th GBAP 26-03-1943 B-25
16th GBAP 26-03-1943 Il-4
17th GBAP 13-05-1944 Il-4
18th GBAP 13-05-1943 Il-4
19th GBAP 13-05-1943 Il-4
20th GBAP 23-05-1943 Il-4
21st GBAP 13-05-1943 B-25
22nd GBAP 22-11-1942 Boston A-20
26th GBAP 01-08-1943 Boston A-20
27th GBAP 01-08-1943 Boston A-20
28th GBAP 19-08-1944 Il-4
29th GBAP 28-12-1944 Tu-2
30th GBAP 19-08-1944 Il-4
31st GBAP 11-05-1944 Tu-2
32nd GBAP 11-05-1944 Tu-2
33rd GBAP 11-05-1944 Tu-2
34th GBAP 22-11-1942 Pe-2
35th GBAP 22-11-1942 Pe2?
36th GBAP 16-12-1942 Pe-2
44th GBAP 02-08-1943 Pe-2
49th GBAP 10-10-1944 Tu-2
50th GBAP 10-10-1944 Tu-2
51st GBAP 10-10-1944 Tu-2
80th GBAP 18-03-1943 Pe-2
81st GBAP 18-03-1943 Pe-2
82nd GBAP 18-03-1943 Pe-2
96th GBAP 17-06-1943 Pe-2
97th GBAP 17-06-1943 Pe-2
114th GBAP 24-08-1943 ?? (Lend-Lease?)
119th GBAP 03-09-1943 Pe-2
122nd GBAP 03-09-1943 Pe-2
123th GBAP 03-09-1943 Pe-2
124th GBAP 03-09-1943 Pe-2
125th GBAP 03-09-1943 Pe-2
126th GBAP 07-09-1943 Pe-2
127th GBAP 03-09-1943 Pe-2
128th GBAP 03-09-1943 Pe2??
134th GBAP 23-10-1943 Pe-2
135th GBAP 23-10-1943 Pe-2
138th GBAP 10-10-1944 Tu-2
160th GBAP 05-02-1944 Pe-2
161st GBAP 05-02-1944 Pe-2
162nd GBAP 05-02-1944 Pe-2
171st GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
208th GBAP 10-10-1944 Il-4
220th GBAP 26-12-1944 Tu-2
224th GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
226th GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
229th GBAP 26-12-1944 B-25
238th GBAP 26-12-1944 B-25
239th GBAP 26-12-1944 Tu-2
240th GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
244th GBAP 26-12-1944 Il-4
250th GBAP 26-12-1944 B-25
251st GBAP 26-12-1944 B-25

(in reply to docgaun)

Post #: 13

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 10:57:06 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

quote:

The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm.

What took up most of the slots from 2000 to 7000 ?

(in reply to docgaun)

Post #: 14

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 2:47:32 PM

philturco

Posts: 308
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

What we need is someone who can do the following
Figure some way to motivate the Soviet player to make a stand and try to defend more forward,akin to what happened historically. Some sort of negative shock penalty if the Soviets lose Minsk too early.
A Soviet commander who pulls everything back fast can usually build a Maginot type defense that ends the game before the German even gets started.
Also I think it's just to easy to fortify in the game. A dug in and fortified Soviet line backed with Soviet artillary...well let's just say it is more than a challange to defeat. i think I like this game even better than the new War in the east...but the scxenerio needs fixing.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 15

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 3:37:00 PM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm.

What took up most of the slots from 2000 to 7000 ?

It's regimental scale for the Soviets instead of divisional.

BTW, the Soviets had about 2000 separate artillery units alone.

< Message edited by Panama -- 6/11/2012 4:06:09 PM >

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 4:03:44 PM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Hello everybody.

Thanks for all the tips. The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm. The structual limitations are still quite a bitch in Toaw, but still this will be the most massive senario ever.
Scale is 6km hex, regimental size.

Now if there was a way i could upload the oob i would, but the overall structure of fronts and armies are like this. Please bear in mind that there is a 4 army maximum on each front because of the collor coding

Final Structure in FitE2. Armies Forming in event "Reform Fronts" Renamed To Notes
Stavka 1st-8th Guards Armies
Karealian Front 7th, 14th, 58th Karealian Front
Leningrad Front 23rd, 42nd, 55th Leningrad Front
Volkov Front 48th, 52nd, 54th, 59th Volkov Front
Northwestern Front 8th,11th, 27th, 34th, Northwestern Front
Kalinin Front 29th,30th 31st, 39th, 1st Baltic 1st Baltic,
Western Front 3rd, 4th, 10th 13th, 3rd Belorussian
Reserve Front 16th, 20th, 22nd, 24th Reserve Front
Moscow Front 32nd, 33rd, 49th, 3rd Baltic
Central Front 19th, 21st, 65th 1st Belorussian
Bryansk Front 28th, 43rd, 50th, 61st 2nd Baltic 19th,28th From Western Front, 21st Central Foront
Voronezh Front 38th, 40th, 60th, 1st Ukranian 1st Ukrainian
Steppe Front 37th, 46th, 57th, 2nd Ukranian
Southwestern Front 5th,6th,12th,26th, 3rd Ukranian
Southern Front 9th, 18th, 44th 4th Ukranian
Crimean Front 51st, Seperate Costal Army (56th) Crimean
Caucasian Front 45th, 47th Caucasian Front

This is just a personal opinion but...

Soviet Army HQ handled all the supply for the units assigned/attached to them. Any other HQ besides Army would be useless in TOAW since they are merely administrative and did nothing regarding the distribution of supplies except for the occaisional artillery unit. So, personally I think any Soviet HQ beyond Army gives the Soviet far too much freedom in supply distribution.

For the Germans I think anything above Corps HQ would be too much since I believe that was the level of HQ that provided supply to the divisions.

One other thing. It is my understanding that for the most part the Soviet Army HQ depots delivered supplies to the different units assigned/attached to them. The German divisions were responsible for getting their own supplies from Corp HQ depots.

If TOAW had some hierarchy I could see throwing in all the HQ. Without it all those admin HQ are abused in very unrealistic ways.

Another note, the Soviet formation structure was not as rigid as people portray. Divisions were moved about from Army to Army on a regular basis. It would be common for a division to be in serveral different Armies through it's wartime history. Same for Armies. Switched from Front to Front regularly. So free cooperation or at the very least army cooperation would be desirable to mirror what the Soviets did historically since they used task oriented structures through most of the war and TOAW has no flexible hierarchy. Operationally the Germans did this on a battalion/regimental scale, the Soviets did it on a regimental/divisional scale.

On the other hand, if this is indeed a regimental scale scenario I have no idea how you would keep players honest because for most of the divisions, German and Soviet, a regiment typically remained with it's parent unit through the war. There were some exceptions. How you would manage to force people to keep divisions together is beyond my imagination.

Just some observations. Good luck with your project.

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 4:39:19 PM

samba_liten

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Perhaps vp awards each turn a hex (say Minsk) is held by the Soviet player would make people want to defend forward?

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 7:29:48 PM

ogar

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A couple of guesses on the questions of

How to have the Soviet hold more/less to historical ?

How to 'historize' the regiment-parent_division attachment ?

I'm guessing, based on what I see in Snefens' Operation Neva that formations will be activated by a combination of events and 'TO purchases'. In Neva, that does make a player play somewhat historically, although some things do develop a-historically.
As for keeping rgts w/parents, Neva uses a massive color-coordination scheme and restricted cooperation levels to make players keep formations working together - or, you get the limited /no cooperation penalties.

If you read/skim thru Snefens' pdf document with Neva, you can get a clearer picture of what I'm guessing will happen.

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Post #: 19

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/11/2012 9:46:15 PM

sPzAbt653

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quote:

Figure some way to motivate the Soviet player to make a stand and try to defend more forward,akin to what happened historically.

I would imagine that FitE2 has some sort of factory units that when withdrawn reduce replacements/supply, and if destroyed reduce replacements/supply even more.

quote:

...the Soviets had about 2000 separate artillery units alone.

Yikes ! This might bring up a discussion concerning the flexibility and effectness of Soviet artillery.

(in reply to philturco)

Post #: 20

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/12/2012 7:58:54 PM

governato

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If reinforcements arrive as large, static units with low proficiency, to be disbanded shortly on arrival, then the players would focus a lot more on holding cities. German players able to hold on to large manpower sources longer than historical would cripple the Soviet Union, by starving it of rifle squads. About 1 million soldiers were drafted into the Red Army from Ukraine when it was retaken in 1944. This has been used in 'Soviet Union' and 'Eastern Front 41-45' to good effect.

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Post #: 21

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/13/2012 1:07:49 AM

Panama

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Just curious, will the map cover the same area as the first FiTE?

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/13/2012 7:16:18 AM

Telumar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Hello everybody.

Thanks for all the tips. The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm. The structual limitations are still quite a bitch in Toaw, but still this will be the most massive senario ever.
Scale is 6km hex, regimental size.

You're insane.. Who shall play this?

Seriously. I was hoping you would go again with the 10km scale and divisions with the Soviets. With the increased unit limit in 3.5 these still could subdivide into regiments.

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/13/2012 1:38:58 PM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar

quote:

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Hello everybody.

Thanks for all the tips. The Soviet oob is at 7000 units atm. The structual limitations are still quite a bitch in Toaw, but still this will be the most massive senario ever.
Scale is 6km hex, regimental size.

You're insane.. Who shall play this?

Seriously. I was hoping you would go again with the 10km scale and divisions with the Soviets. With the increased unit limit in 3.5 these still could subdivide into regiments.

Most wargamers are certifiably insane.

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/13/2012 2:43:27 PM

fogger

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quote:

very true

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/13/2012 10:34:46 PM

secadegas

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In sake of good order (and future of TOAW) this Design sub-forum should be reserved for experienced designers and credible projects and let all other "things" directed to War Room sub-forum where people can present... all kind of "free ideas"...

< Message edited by Sekadegas -- 6/14/2012 12:13:41 AM >

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Post #: 26

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/14/2012 2:22:21 AM

Panama

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Scenario Design
Post discussions and advice on TOAW scenario design here.

The War Room
Post advice on tactics and strategies here; share your experience on how to become a better wargamer.

The Scenario Design sub forum is home to the Comprehensive Wishlist, a veritable hotbed of free ideas.

But serisoulsy, I understand what you are saying. Perhaps you could suggest to the powers that a sub sub forum be introduced. Perhaps call it Work in Progress or something like that. Only serious business allowed.

< Message edited by Panama -- 6/14/2012 2:36:49 AM >

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/14/2012 3:09:35 PM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: docgaun

Here is the oob for soviet airformations, just for the fun of it, its not done yet.
I have cut out the game notes and historical data

The starting Soviet air forces are a mess. For instance, in the Leningrad MD you have 314 operational SB type aircraft. But you have 560 crews for them. 163 operational Mig-3 but only 15 crew. It seems the older aircraft have plenty of crew but the newer aircraft have a severe shortage of trained pilots. Send a Mig-3 up with an SB pilot = a short lived pilot.

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RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/18/2012 11:30:30 AM

docgaun

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Thanks for all the input, guys appreciate it. I hope you will continue as it will make the scenario much better. I simply can�t thank you enough.

I�ll try to answer as much as I can.
sPzAbt653 What took up all the units:
The soviet air force is around 1000 units, regiments takes pretty much the rest. We have most battalions removed, and put Artillery under the HQ for each Division/Corps. This is done with a Sapper Battalion, Guards Mortar, and Mortar battalions as well, to save units, and to make the game playable ( I hope)
Bibbo
A lot of factories;) it will keep the Soviet player forward, or he will loose production. Allso, we will calculate a German bonus production into the game. So if the Germans go faster, deeper and hold ground longer, than historical he will get more production than historically.

Also a few reform events will keep the soviet number of units low. Eg. The Militia that formed the corresponding Rifle Division has to be removed to get the Rifle Division, with a delay. Same for Cavalry units.
Panama
I agree that there is a problem with the number of HQ, and supply. However there will be few trucks, and a low supply. If you want to have supplies to fight, you will need to think carefully about where to place your HQ
It�s all on internal support, so the units will benefit from being in the same formation. Not having them together will limit support, supply, and take all your time attacking. So if you want to win, you will have to keep formations together (Guards are still free support so they can move freely, and support freely, as historically )
The Soviets where a master of improvisation, but TOAW is not and we have to adopt history to the limitations of a game. Soviet used goal oriented planning, and assigned the units needed for a specific operation. You will have the same flexibility with Guards, and Stavka reserves ( RVGK ect) These are free support. The internal support is also to prevent your point of supplies and coordination for HQ.
The map will be a bit larger, and in 6km hexes
Its correct that the Air force was a mess, however after the first few days it was not pilots that were missing as reservist where drafted ( It was again later in the war). Its was Aircraft. Giving the low proficiency of the starting Soviet Air force, they will get killed and fast, and should if the Germans pay attention in the first 2 turns be nearly absent the first months.
polarenper
Minsk will fall around turn 4-6, unless the German player is performing poorly, or the Soviet player moves everything to defend it. If so he will pay for it. The mobility of the Germans, and the immobility of the starting soviet forces, are a setup for disaster. As per history, we hope.

ogar
You are guessing right. Sneffens Neva experience will be used of cause ;) I am not sure I understand your questions correctly, could you reface it?

Telumar
We are insane, ;) by adding the 6km scale we hope to bring back the element of maneuverability. Being motorized will really be vital, and this should reflect the historical outcome and operations better, than the �WW1� conditions showed in Fite 1. Foot move will be around 12, while fast recon units will have around 38

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Post #: 29

RE: Fite Upgrade in progress, Help wanted - 6/25/2012 11:20:04 AM

fogger

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Couple of suggestions from my current game. (Buzz's Mod)
1. Do away with the withdraw of the German 41 tank units. Instead have a unit with the replacement tanks that is to be disbanded.
2. From my readings, Russian tank units had only 1 radio per company. Thus they should be more prone to going into reorg.
3. Russian tank units and infantry units have no trouble crossing super rivers without engineer support. Whereas more than 1/2 of the German engineer unit can not cross a super river and No German or infantry can cross a super river.
4. If working off this Mod review the German Order of battle. I am still getting Fin HQ's even though Finland surrendered 100 turn ago.
5. Around turn 130 the game counter lost 2 turns. What I mean is the game the turn comes back from the Russian player as turn 306 but opens as turn 305 whereas the German should be 307 being the start of the new turn.

Just my 2 cents worth

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