Alfred
Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hades1001
OK here is the most problematic morning wave. The whole combat info is attached.
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Morning Air attack on TF, near Sadogashima at 115,54
Weather in hex: Heavy cloud
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 22
A6M3a Zero x 64
A6M5 Zero x 48
A6M5b Zero x 15
A6M5c Zero x 142
A7M2 Sam x 33
B7A2 Grace x 235
D4Y4 Judy x 34
J2M3 Jack x 48
N1K1-J George x 81
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 21
Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 97
F4U-1A Corsair x 330
F4U-1D Corsair x 129
F6F-3 Hellcat x 72
F6F-5 Hellcat x 555
Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 2 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 15 destroyed, 32 damaged
B7A2 Grace: 17 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 3 destroyed, 7 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 4 destroyed by flak
J2M3 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 2 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
Allied Ships
CV Hancock, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
CV Ticonderoga, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CV Yorktown II, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Wasp, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Illustrious, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CV Lexington, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
CV Essex, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CV Wasp II, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
CLAA San Diego, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
DD Lang
CV Saratoga, Torpedo hits 1
DD Preston II
DD Arunta
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 10000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
17 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
10 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
13 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
12 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
14 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
14 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
17 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
10 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
10 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
16 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
21 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
17 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
18 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
15 x B7A2 Grace launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
CAP engaged:
VF-17 with F4U-1A Corsair (4 airborne, 16 on standby, 10 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 45 minutes
VF-40 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 14 on standby, 13 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
VF-1 with F4U-1D Corsair (8 airborne, 20 on standby, 12 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
VF-2 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 17 on standby, 16 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
VF-3 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
VF-6 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 16 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 37300 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 37300.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
VF-7 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 63 minutes
VF-8 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 51 minutes
VF-10 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 60 minutes
VF-11 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 54 minutes
VF-13 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 27000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 27000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 62 minutes
VF-14 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 16 on standby, 16 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 62 minutes
VF-16 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
VF-71 with F6F-5 Hellcat (4 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
VF-80 with F6F-5 Hellcat (8 airborne, 17 on standby, 17 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 27000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 27000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
VF-24 with F6F-5 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 9 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 58 minutes
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 12 on standby, 4 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat (4 airborne, 15 on standby, 2 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 52 minutes
VF-50 with F4U-1D Corsair (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 7 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 21000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 46 minutes
No.834 Sqn-FF-2 FAA with Corsair II (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 1 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 11000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
Fuel storage explosion on CV Lexington
Ammo storage explosion on CV Wasp
Fuel storage explosion on CV Lexington
Fuel storage explosion on CV Hancock
By examine the facts, we have:
84 fighters: airborne
303 fighters: standby
259 fighters: scrambling
and they have about 40 minutes to react.
What the number of fighters will you suggest is involved in this combat?
The onus on doing the number crunching rests on those who continue to repeat the incorrect figures. Nonetheless for this initial round (one of many which occurred) the correct figures are as follow.
(A) Only 3 squadrons will be fully in position to meet the enemy. These squadrons are
Between them they have a total of
12 airborne
36 on standby
17 scrambling
Therefore all 65 planes will be present at the start of the combat
(B) The remaining 17 squadrons are out of position and will not contribute their full complement to the start of the combat. The only planes of these squadrons which will be present at the start are the planes already airborne and noted in the Combat Report as intercepting now. The total number of planes which fall into this category is 68.
Thus from (A) and (B) the total number of fighters is 133
(C) There is no way to tell from reading a Combat Report how many late arriving fighters will participate in combat either before or after the attack run in. You have to look at the Combat Animation for that information, a point which is always ommitted by people who base their entire argument on the Combat Report, which is subject to FOW anyway. Nonetheless, late arriving fighters, particularly if they arrive in dribs and drabs, tend to do very poorly and more often than not fail to participate. As the delay in arriving for many squadrons is substantial, even without the benefit of watching the Combat Animation, I would expect not too many planes from these 17 squadrons participated in this initial round of combat.
(D) The enemy strike package comprised 474 fighters plus 269 modern bomber. Many of the enemy fighters were superior airframes to anything fielded by the Allies, and this takes no account of the experience and skill levels of the pilots. Again whilst the Combat Report does not identify exactly how many enemy fighters will present at the start of combat, it is rare for escorting fighters to miss the initial combat.
Therefore, contrary to the incorrect figures which have been often repeated, an initial CAP of 133 met a total of 743 enemy planes. In those circumstances the Allied CAP performed quite credibly in downing as many enemy aircraft as it did. In subsequent rounds, as more CAP arrived into position a much heavier toll was taken of enemy planes.
None of this establishes the system is broken. The situation arose out of player decisions, some made in the 24 hour preceding combat, many made many months before.
Alfred
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RE: Am I the only one who feels the coordination strike... - 
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