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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball (Axis)

 
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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 2/23/2012 7:28:16 PM   
smokindave34


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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 2/24/2012 2:21:34 PM   
smokindave34


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In the Moscow area Q-ball continues his slow advance east with two more succesfull attacks. I don't see any axis armor behind his lines ready to try and exploit these gains although the slow push east has me worried. He's taking heavy casualties doing this but if it keeps up I may be forced to build a few rifle corps to put in this area. I also have some tank corps sitting north of Moscow on refit that I could use if necessary but I'd like to keep them on refit if possible.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 2/24/2012 2:28:09 PM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		QB ball caught me off guard with an attack by XXXXVIII and XIV panzer corps in the south. I had seen a panzer and motorized division there last turn but didn't expect an attack of this scale - 5 more divisions off to POW camps

I have over 500,000 men in the manpower pool. I don't think I'm using my manpower effectively so I built 2 rifle divisions and a rifle brigade this turn to start prepping for the '43 build of rifle corps. I calculated that if I save 20AP per turn from now until Jan '43 I'll be at the limit of 500 AP's. That allows me to spend 40AP per turn for the rest of the year. I plan on continuing to build tank corps and now that I've noticed this glut of men in the pool I'll start building Rifle div/brigades as well. Any thoughts/criticisms of this plan are welcome!




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 2/24/2012 2:29:54 PM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		My grand plan for pushing west towards Lake Ilmen has fizzled out. I sent a few cavalry divisions into the area only to run into entrenched German divisions. I recon'd that area for 4 turns and didn't see a thing....




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 2/24/2012 3:02:59 PM   
Klydon


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Status: offline 		Instead of just building new units because you have the points, I would take an inventory of what you have first and then decide what you want to do from there.

Part of the reason for this is more units is not necessarily a good thing, especially since your manpower is down. The results will likely be a lot of units watered down, which is not necessarily what you want. I know Flaviusx and some of the other Russian testers have said in the past there is a limit you don't want to go past as the Russians. I can't quite remember what the number was, but I would say you would want around 300 division equivalents and given your manpower, no more than 350.

Have you guys updated to the latest version of the game? If so, I think I would be spending my budget of points on trying to get the command structure fixed to fall within the newer parameters of the patch (IE, fewer units per HQ). You will be busy spending points moving commanders around in this case as well.

One final thing to look at as far as spending AP's on. How are you doing support unit wise? When you get all those corps, they will be support unit hungry, so if you don't have a bunch of sappers started yet, I would perhaps consider looking at those as they will need time to fill out and train up.

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 2/24/2012 3:29:50 PM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		Klydon - thanks for the advice. I currently have 375 infantry divisions and 49 rifle brigades (of which I think 15-20 are naval infantry brigades). It sounds like that may be a bit much...I certainly don't want a bunch of watered down rifle corps come 1943.

I have not started building up my support units for the rifle corps - that is good advice! I'll start building these now and attack to STAVKA and then when the corps are built I'll transfer them to the corps. I planned on attaching a sapper regiment, separate tank regiment, and MG-artillery battalion to each corps.

We are on the latest version of the game. I spent about 100 AP's the first two turns getting re-organized. I still have some armies overloaded but those are in quiet sectors of the front. I focused primarily on getting my armies around Moscow at or below 18 command points.

< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 2/24/2012 3:32:31 PM >

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/1/2012 8:59:05 PM   
smokindave34


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Been a while since I posted as there was not a lot of action during mud turns and Q-ball has dramatically scaled back his offensive operations so far during winter (although I fully expect another major offensive yet this winter)

Here is the situation around Moscow:

Q ball continues to make some attacks in this area (about 1 attack every other turn) and he has driven me out of Rzhev. I should have defended the city better and he will be tough to push out of there now. I'm a bit thin in this area and have transferred the 2nd tank corps from east of Moscow to this area to stiffen my defenses.

I have taken Flaviusx's advice and put a large portion of my units in reserve stance. Unfortunately no one joined in the battle for Rzhev however in the future this should give Q-ball some fits.

One problem I'm having is that I don't have a lot of recon units, so at this time I don't have a firm handle on where all the panzers are.... I tried to spread the limited recon planes I have out across the entire front this turn to try and help matters.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/1/2012 9:07:00 PM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		I've been staging and refitting units in the Stalingrad area in preparation for the mass Rifle corps build that will occur in three turns. I'll be at 500 admin points so I should be able to field a lot of rifle corps very soon. I sent all my guards rifle divisions back to get them out of harms way and ready to form corps.

The new SW front has arrived and I stripped 4 armies (including the new 5th shock army) and will place them under SW front which I have assigned to K. Rokossovsky. I'd like to use this front as sort of a mobile attack force, I know that I can't just pound one area of the front as Q-ball will surely send his armor to that area so I'm thinking of doing hit and run tactics with my riifle coprs with support from tank corps/mech corps in an effort to gain experience and flip over to guards.

STAVKA has been building sapper regiments, separate tank brigades, and MG-artillery SU's to assign to each rifle corps and I've built my first two artillery divisions as well.





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< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 3/1/2012 9:10:04 PM >

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/1/2012 9:16:45 PM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		I continue to have a LOT of men in the pool - over 1 million. I've been cycling units in and out of the front line and putting them on refit and this has slowed the rate of rise of men in the pool a bit but this still seems like way too many men to be sitting around in the pool....




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< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 3/1/2012 9:17:03 PM >

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/1/2012 9:17:37 PM   
smokindave34


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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/1/2012 9:36:08 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		A million men in the pool is a lot...and you've got plenty of armaments. Very strange.

The only thing I can suggest is to stack less on the front line and keep more stuff in the rear. There are good tactical reasons for doing this in general anyways.



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 3/1/2012 9:41:28 PM >

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/1/2012 10:44:52 PM   
randallw

 

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Status: offline 		Guards Rifle Corps, Rokosovsky, and Shock Armies sound like a fun plan.

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 12:20:31 AM   
smokindave34


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

A million men in the pool is a lot...and you've got plenty of armaments. Very strange.

The only thing I can suggest is to stack less on the front line and keep more stuff in the rear. There are good tactical reasons for doing this in general anyways.




I'll pull some forces back from the front line and put them on refit. I have done this on a smaller scale the last few turns but will ramp it up and see if I can lower the numbers in the pool.

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 12:21:02 AM   
smokindave34


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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Guards Rifle Corps, Rokosovsky, and Shock Armies sound like a fun plan.



I'm trying to assemble the Red Army dream team!

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 3:37:32 AM   
Klydon


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Status: offline 		Stupid question on my part (just can't tell from the screen is all). You plan on converting 2 guards rifle division and a rifle brigade to guards rifle corps or doing a rifle division? I would not go 3 guards rifle divisions.

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 5:08:59 AM   
smokindave34


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Stupid question on my part (just can't tell from the screen is all). You plan on converting 2 guards rifle division and a rifle brigade to guards rifle corps or doing a rifle division? I would not go 3 guards rifle divisions.


Yes - 2 guards rifle divisions and a "generic" rifle brigade. I'll be able to fill out all my guards rifle corps with the third unit being a rifle brigade however I don't have a lot of brigades and for my non-guards corps I'll have to combine three divisions.

< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 3/2/2012 5:09:15 AM >

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 5:47:00 AM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		Ordinarily I do not like using brigades to fill out rifle corps, but given your enormous replacement pool, it's probably best to do this as much as possible. The understrength corps can help drain those pools.



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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 2:16:17 PM   
smokindave34


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Q-balls panzers strike hard at my Moscow defenses. I've counted panzers and motorized divisions from 7 axis panzer corps. Fortunately I had some defense in depth in this area. I'm expecting that instead of pushing straight on to Moscow he will continue in his effort to chew up Red army units to force me to spend AP's on replacing them. I sent five of my mobile reserve units to the Moscow area to try and slow his advance (3rd Gd Cav corps, 2,10,11, and 2nd Gd Tank corps). Two things are hurting me in this area:

1) I stacked my units up on the front line but didn't give them a lot of territory to fall back to and as a result had 5 "routs". I've tried to allow for some more room to retreat next turn.

2) I have a mess of command and control in this area with a bunch of different fronts represented. I've been saving AP's for 1/1/43 but may be forced to re-organize here if things deteriorate (regardless next turn I'm going to assign one of my empty army HQ to Moscow M.D and assign my best forces near Moscow to it). This mix of fronts didn't help my reserve commitment either. Q-ball had 23 attacks and I didn't have one unit join in reserve...






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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 2:27:10 PM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		Q-ball's attack near Moscow has opened up some opportunities for me.

1) His panzer force dropped by 360 tanks this turn (over 10% of his entire force) although he is still VERY strong. I don't have anywhere near the offensive capability to destroy/damage 360 axis panzers so having them grind down on level 2/3 forts is my best offense.

2) I've identified 9 axis panzer corps so far in the game and 7 are now committed to Moscow. Soon I will have some very strong forces of my own which I should be able to deploy without the threat of any serious panzer forces in reserve (or if they are they should be reduced in strength).

I've identified two areas where I may be able to make some limited attacks (still too early in the war for anything really big)..first one is Kerch where recon shows only one Rumanian rifle division in defense. I'm sure Q-ball has then entry exits to the crimea fortified but I should be able to force him to divert forces to this area..

I haven't done any recon here since before the mud hit as I don't want to tip my hand.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 2:31:42 PM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		The second area is on the Don river where there are is a small portion of the front defended by Rumanian rifle divisions. I may be able to break through here and give him a scare. Again - no recon here as I don't want to bring any attention to the area. The earlier I can attack the better (while his panzers are tied down near Moscow). It will all depend on how quickly my new rifle corps get up to strength.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 4:50:27 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		I think you are stacking too much on the defense. I see some empty hexes with good level 3 forts near Moscow. You should occupy those. Just lay down a freaking carpet around the city more or less, 1-2 units per hex. Let him impale himself on the rifle units, things are to the point now where every attack he makes hurts him. And make sure the defenders are rifle units in particular. Mobile forces can't defend for crap, mechanized corps being a partial exception. (Mobile forces are for counterattacking in a situation like this, not defense per se.)

And yes, straighten out your CC. That is surely why you aren't getting any reserve commitments. I see units from 4 different fronts around Moscow. These guys are just tripping all over each other. If you have to overload a Front to get the job done, so be it, better 1 overloaded Front around a critical objective than 4 Fronts presenting a rainbow of uncooperating units to the enemy. Just keep the armies under command limits.

All that being said, I think you should definitely go medieval in the South. Don't cancel that attack. Just feed Moscow enough stuff to hold it down and keep all his panzers busy. The moment the rivers freeze over, start beating on those guys with all your reserves.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 3/2/2012 4:59:58 PM >

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 8:39:39 PM   
smokindave34


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Q-ball bites off another small piece of my line near Moscow but it looks like the massive attack last turn was a hit and run. At this point he can't sustain long assaults without burning out his forces.

Flaviusx - I took your advice and started changing my defensive strategy. I laid down a carpet around Moscow and along the rest of the front for that matter. I also cleaned up my command and control in the Moscow area although there is still some work to be done there.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 8:44:38 PM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		Down south I rail the SW front into a staging area south of Rostov - close enough to the front but hopefully far enough away that recon won't spot me. I'll have four strong armies in SW front to hit Q-ball's Rumanians hard with. I'll also have 2 strong armies assigned to the North Caucasus front to launch an attack on Kerch. One more turn until 1/1/43 and I currently have 430 admin points in the bank.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/2/2012 8:55:08 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		That looks much better around Moscow now. Although I'm kind of nervous about leaving single rifle divisions in Moscow proper. There you might want to put in two guys, just to be on the safe side. Very unlikely he can pull of a coup de main, but...

Regarding carpets...it's not necessary to carpet along the entire length of the line. Only where the panzer ball shows up. It's actually very bad economy of force to do this everywhere.

The trick is to identify the enemy dispositions and concentrations, react to them accordingly, leave the bare minimum for defense elsewhere...and use the balance remaining to make your own attacks where he is weak. If you carpet it up everywhere you will have large portions of the front which are actually too weak to defend against the panzer ball but at the same time not strong enough to actually go on the offensive.

Quiet parts of the front can be held with as little as a single line.

That being said, your replacement situation (the enormous surplus) is practically forcing a carpet on you, just because you need to pull stuff from the front line drain the pools. But once that's done, think about sending those boys off to a good place where you can take a whack at the Axis and leave the front line as is in quiet sectors.




< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 3/2/2012 8:57:13 PM >

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/4/2012 3:24:07 AM   
smokindave34


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Status: offline 		Turn 83 (2nd week of January '43):

January has come and I've built 35 rifle corps. 26 of these rifle corps have 3 support units each (sapper regiment, separate tank regiment, and MG-artillery battallion). I have about half of them behind my main line getting refit while the rest have been moved close to the front to try and pick up some early victories.

Near Moscow Q-balls panzers have vanished. I think he is refitting before his next attack. My suspicion is that he is going to use hit and run attacks throughout the winter to keep me off guard. The panzer blob will show up at different areas of the front and take a bite out of my front line. I have 3 rifle corps and I'm slowly moving them to the front line to try and pick up a win against a German rifle division - I'll have to be careful as I don't want these guys getting pocketed...

My manpower pool situation has improved somewhat in that I was able to draw down approximately 125,000 troops and my OOB is now finally over 6 million. I'll keep refitting units behind the line to continue to draw the pool down.






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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/4/2012 3:27:40 AM   
smokindave34


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I move newly equipped 33rd and 40th armies into the Voronezh area to try and pick up some wins against the axis minor allies. I already has some strong armor units here from Don front. I ended up having to 33rd and 40th armies from 2 different fronts (I couldn't fit all my SW front forces around Rostov) but I'm not going for a sustained operation here just some wins to gain experience/morale.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/4/2012 3:30:36 AM   
smokindave34


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The focal point of SW front's operations. I tried to conceal the 16th and Coastal armies from Q-ball's recon by "hiding" under airbases and HQ's but I'm so concentrated he's bound to see whats up. Regardless - these are my strongest units and unless he has panzers here I should be able to make some headway. I have 5th shock army (Tank and Mech corps) in reserve in the hopes of picking up some easy wins using "hasty attacks" once the Rumanians are thrown back.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/4/2012 1:06:08 PM   
smokindave34


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I decide to cancel the Rostov attacks after recon picks up lots of axis formations inside the Don bend. Mostly forts and airbases but there could be a few panzer corps hidden in there. The one thing I absolutely cannot do is get my newly formed guards rifle corps sucked in against the Rumanians here while Q-ball launches a counterattack against my weak flank. I just spent a lot of AP's and time building these corps and I don't want to have them end up in a pocket.

My new plan is to refit the Vornezh front and have it operate side by side with the SW front. Having two strong fronts together will give me flank protection and should allow me to start making attacks without risking a strong reply from Q-ball.

Two other item influenced my decision to pull back. Q-ball's AFV strength is back up to where it was prior to his last major attack on Moscow and I've been reading Pelton's AAR vs M-60 and saw the offensive power the axis still has at this point in the war. I have some thin portions of my line and may have to respond to a deep thrust by axis panzers.




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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/4/2012 1:58:10 PM   
Flaviusx


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Status: offline 		I think you are being unduly cautious here. These rivers aren't going to stay frozen forever, you need to get some attacks going. Those Romanians are as tasty a target as any, I doubt you'll find something better.

You've already waited until January and lost a good month of winter campaigning. (I would have started attacking in December with whatever I had in hand and done my corps conversions on the fly.) Those reserves need to get into the action and trained up ASAP.

As for getting them cut off, just advance cautiously, and only with rifle units. Don't let your mobile forces ever end the turn next to enemy lines. Not for a while, anyways. They should scoot to the rear at the end of the Soviet turn and be in a position to break up any Axis attacks.

The biggest mistake a lot of Soviet players are making in this mid war period is prematurely introducing mobile forces into breakthrough operations. They haven't got the chops to do this against a good German defense. As unexciting as this may be, the Soviet has to settle with gradual crumbling attacks for quite some time.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 3/4/2012 2:34:44 PM >

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RE: Clash of steel continued Smokindave (Sov) vs. Qball... - 3/4/2012 2:48:09 PM   
Klydon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

T84:

I decide to cancel the Rostov attacks after recon picks up lots of axis formations inside the Don bend. Mostly forts and airbases but there could be a few panzer corps hidden in there. The one thing I absolutely cannot do is get my newly formed guards rifle corps sucked in against the Rumanians here while Q-ball launches a counterattack against my weak flank. I just spent a lot of AP's and time building these corps and I don't want to have them end up in a pocket.

My new plan is to refit the Vornezh front and have it operate side by side with the SW front. Having two strong fronts together will give me flank protection and should allow me to start making attacks without risking a strong reply from Q-ball.

Two other item influenced my decision to pull back. Q-ball's AFV strength is back up to where it was prior to his last major attack on Moscow and I've been reading Pelton's AAR vs M-60 and saw the offensive power the axis still has at this point in the war. I have some thin portions of my line and may have to respond to a deep thrust by axis panzers.



Having read your post before seeing what Flav posted, I was thinking the same thing as Flav in that you are being a bit too cautious. The Germans do still have the power to lay the hurt on you and will for some time, but not only do you have the preponderance of force now, but also the ability of concentration of force sufficient to bang around the Axis at various points along the line. Flav offers good advice here.

The other thing I would point out is that its 1943. The clock is ticking. You have got to make some hay in grinding down the Axis forces if you hope to get to Berlin in time. The Russian advances in 1944 were huge and I think most Russian players would be hard pressed to equal those advances, so you have to get busy in the first part of 1943. The one advantage you have over your historical counterparts is you won't have the logistics issues they did.

If you are concerned about his panzers, perhaps try breaking the initial crust with rifle corps, advance and attack with rifle divisions the best you can and keep strong reserves in the area. One of these days, the Germans are going to encircle some troops and you are going to give him a bloody nose for his efforts when you break the encirclement. At the very least, a lot of counter attacking on his part will wear down his panzer forces. Just keep the pressure going and he will be hard pressed to get them built back up to strength like he did after the Moscow drive.

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