Seminole
Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011 Status: offline
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quote:
We might not have this airdrop exploit if the game had supply that could move by roads Not sure I understand the point you're trying to make. The game does have supply by road. The motor pool is utilized moving supply between rail head and units. The issue here is the severing of the German rail net far to the west (because it had no redundancy, for reasons Pelton hasn't offered to explain yet). The Western allies faced the same issue in France, having demolished the French rail net in '44, that after they got a certain distance from the controlled ports their motorized supply network couldn't maintain operations and the previous tempo. quote:
For those that have not played the German side, you get a total of 5 units that can fix rail lines that you have control over. 3 start in the north and 2 in the south. So why does Pelton only have ONE rail line leading from Rumanian (11th Army's FBD 5)? What happened to FBD 1 (starts the war NE of Lvov)? Only Pelton can tell us, and so far he's mum on the issue. He just wants a nerf to allow him to do things in the gamey way he's become accustomed to. I don't think that's the solution to the problem he faces. Had he built the line from Lvov to Prosukurov (or through Rovno to Zhitomir) with FBD 1 the operation staged in Odessa could not have severed his rail net. quote:
You have no control over the other repair units and as someone else mentioned, they are typically great at fixing lines going to nowhere that you could care less about instead of working on cross connects that would actually be useful. I asked about this, but didn't receive an answer, so I'll repost in the hope someone can answer: Does it not work as the manual indicates? quote:
For human players only, there is a limit to the distance that the automated rail repair units will operate from the HQ unit that they are attached, which is based on command range (7.6.4). For example, if a construction battalion is assigned to a Corps HQ unit, it can only repair rail line hexes up to 5 hexes from that HQ, but the same construction battalion attached to a High Command HQ unit (e.g. OKH or STAVKA) could operate up to 90 hexes away. Wouldn't placing a Corps HQ, with the appropriate construction SUs, at the sites you want interconnected result in the AI performing this function during the logistics phase (and restricting them from going to Courland)? Sounds like you're leaving them in the Army Group, which while useful for repairing partisan damage, isn't necessary early on and results in leaving that element of rail construction up to the AI. [edited to add: from your description is sounds like the AI prioritizes rail repair of the construction SU it controls from West to East, so assign them to lower HQs with that in mind and see what your results are) I'd like to hear what Pelton did with his construction SUs, and FBD 1. Hopefully he didn't disband them for manpower or something on turn 1. A picture of his entire rail net at this phase would be interesting. quote:
The Germans will sometimes "partisan proof" a line with units every two hexes, which is not very realistic either, but if they now have to "para proof" it, give me a break. As I've stated previously, the para drops should include a strong element of randomness in the target hex, based on distance. Drops made a few miles from the front should have a high probability of hitting the target hex, but those at longer distances should be more likely to miss (possibly by several hexes) than hit the target hex. Furthermore, para drops from behind the front line (the airbase is unlikely to sit on the front itself) cover a limited amount of the rail net, so 'para proofing' the line as a whole is unnecessary. The readiness and strength hit a para unit suffers appear to make it unready, and thereby unable to move, once dropped. The Soviets were pioneers in airborne operations. Had apparently conducted them during the Winter war and the seizure of Bessarabia, so there is no historical basis for denying them this capability until some arbitrary date. quote:
Seminole, have you ever played the German side? Because your crap attempt to teach the most successful German player in the game about 'lateral rail lines' wreaks of the kind of player who never played the German against a human opponent. No, I haven't played the German side (I've played through one campaign, and am playing two concurrently now), that's why I asked what he had done with FBD 1, and why he hadn't assigned his construction SUs to Corps HQs to focus their attention where interconnects were needed as the FBDs push east. So far, no one is addressing this, which would have prevented the severing of Pelton's rail net. Pelton has avoided several opportunities to answer questions I've posed about this. Even his original picture was self serving in that it conveniently didn't show Odessa was still under Soviet control and led to the assumption by 'Germanophiles' that the para drop had occurred at a range of 500 miles! My 'crap attempt' is to get him to explain to me how he's utilizing the existing FBDs, and construction SUs. Does it not work as the manual suggests? From the rail net picture Pelton provided, he's using them in a way that creates what I would consider an unacceptable level of risk, and a 'crap' rail net. But of course he sees "no weakness on my logictic's system", whereas a look at the map suggests otherwise to me. quote:
Please, ANYONE, find me an example of a partisan unit or airborne drop in 1941 that stopped ALL supply from going to an army group for two weeks? Did the German Army actually try to support itself in '41 on a single rail line from Rumania? Perhaps it didn't happen because the DRG had a more redundant rail net than Pelton chose to build. Perhaps that's why they didn't build as far east as fast as Pelton did. Is there no room for trade-offs and risk/reward considerations? Pelton relies on a 100+ mile section with single point of failure. He places himself at the mercy of partisans, and apparently left an airborne brigade and airbase in range of this bottleneck without any air cover. And yet all the fault lies with the Soviet player for seeking advantage in this and baiting Pelton east with the appearance of weakness? quote:
It did not happen, yet a ZOC break in the right place of any of the 3 Army Group's will require at LEAST a 2-turn break. As in real life, the German player needs to create a rail net, and protect chokepoint/bottleneck positions in that rail net, to obviate this risk. I think that introducing randomness to the drop zones will go a long way in nerfing this problem in a historical manner (without arbitrary distance limits, or airborne operation time frames). Air transports groups are precious few, so it's not like these attacks can be spammed. Risk would still exist (as Pelton currently entertains with partisans given his approach), but dropping on a particular 10 mile hex shouldn't be automatic.
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