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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J)

 
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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 7/5/2014 5:16:03 PM   
fcharton

 

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I had promised irregular updates on the game, here is one.

May 28th, 1943

May 1943 was a bad month for the Empire. I haven’t lost a lot of material, and even sank a few allied ships, but the pace of Allied advance has become very fast, and I am totally lost about how to counter it.

In the Celebes, Boela was captured on the 20th. I thought Sorong, Ternate and surroundings, both built-up, and in range of Air HQ, made that impossible without carrier support, and that the defeat in Babar would make my opponent prudent with his CV and CVE. But apparently, air support was not needed. He went without and all my bombers managed to sink was a transport carrying an engineer unit. Boela fell in two days, and then Sorong was bombed, and closed in a day…

In New Guinea, Finschafen was invaded around the 15th, then Saidor the 20th and Madang yesterday. I thought Hansa Bay (level 6 airfield), Madang (level 4), Manus (level 5) and Rabaul (level 8) would cover such landings, but it wasn’t the case. Two visits of long range B24 (operating from Taberfane, I believe) were enough to close Hansa Bay (90+ damage, takes weeks to repair), and Manus (those were B17E from Rabaul), and Rabaul is inoperant as any small TF hanging around closer than the landings will be targeted by the AI, and protect the landing forces (or at least divide my force, so that even very long range CAP is very efficient).

Most of KB was in Japan for repairs. It is on its way back, and I hope to provide my opponent with a few bad surprises. But I haven’t seen enemy carriers in a while, and I suspect they are waiting somewhere, hoping for such an opportunity. So far, I’ve won most of the carrier engagements, but the Allies have better planes now, and better radar too. Meanwhile, I am trying to send cruisers and destroyers catch some of his transports. I don’t think this will work, but I have to try, at least.

All this is extremely worrying. I have 200 AV in Madang, behind level four forts, and on what I used to consider as decent supply stocks. But my infantry seems bent on wasting its ammo on useless bombardments, and the amount of supplies burnt by air bombing suggest my stocks won’t last long. My opponent has one reinforced division, which I suspect will take the place in a couple of days (this is what happened pretty much everywhere).

Once this happens, several divisions in New Guinea are doomed. They are experienced, supplied and behind forts, but they can’t be fed, and my experience shows that a unit becomes totally ineffective in less than a month under such conditions. Also, I have very little in term of stopping power to prevent Spence from rolling me north up to Sorong. I used to think I had a pretty solid position between Rabaul, Lae/Wau and Manus/Hansa Bay. BUt it wasn’t the case, and I have little in term of second line (units and bases).

The other fronts are pretty static. I still hold all of Burma, central pacific is calm and raids against the Kuriles have stopped. But then, there probably is little point moving there when you can achieve such breakthroughs in the South Pacific.


In game term, everything is fine so far. I haven’t lost significant material, VP ratio is 2.36 to one, for Japan, and the victory in China means the Allies will need a lot of points to achieve victory. Over the course of the month, the allies lost more than 500 planes, and I lost 700, a decent ratio at this time of the war. Supply, fuel and oil stocks are fine, as is my industry.

Yet, I don’t see how I can do something meaningful to counter, or at least slow, the Allied advance. There is not real use in counterinvading one base or two along the coast, when the Allies can conduct such speedy advances. KB can (and will) certainly make them pay once or twice, but we are at the time when a direct confrontation with Allied carriers, especially in the presence of LBA is a risk, and I see no point in gallantly sending Kido Butai on a death ride without a strategic objective. And note that the presence of KB doesn’t seem to deter my opponent (whoever said Midway had any strategic importance must have been badly mistaken). I am trying to use my navy to punish some of his moves, but again I don’t want to be foolhardy just to keep myself busy between one invasion and the next. The most sensible thing to do, right now, is to ferry lots of troops and supplies to the Philippines, so that the Allies don’t have too easy a fight there.


As a player, I find it is difficult to strike a balance between the fast-playing and fun tactical aspects of the game (sending task forces, setting CAP traps, that kind of things), and the time consuming and very unrewarding (where you’re Japan in 1943) long term concerns. Worse still, the temptation to shorten the agony by not planning your defenses too well is always there.


< Message edited by fcharton -- 7/5/2014 7:54:15 PM >

(in reply to fcharton)
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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 7/8/2014 3:20:19 AM   
PaxMondo


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Wish I had a solution for you Francois, but I really don't. I don't think anyone can hold NG as the IJ in '43 unless you are willing to commit a lot of air power there. LCU's alone cannot hold any position, you have to maintain air supremacy over your base or no matter what it is doomed.

And sticking the ENG units required to support 1000 planes in NG just screams bypass for the allies ... and then all of those units are not available where you need them ... like the PI. The answer for me is the NG is just too far to attempt to hold. I take the bases, suck everything from them and then leave. My defensive perimeter is farther north .... (map direction that is )

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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 7/8/2014 9:41:05 AM   
obvert


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The thing I learned trying to defend in New Guinea is that anything you can do to slow the advance will help in the long term. If Boela is gone the next fortifications that really matter should be around Mindanao I'd think. You can still get the KB in position of rthe places where he'll have to take a bit of a leap, like toward the Molucaas or Celebes.

It's a tough road playing late game Japan. Take pleasure in the tactical victories and small strategic holds and prepare for the long slow grind of the next few years.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 753
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 8/30/2014 1:47:33 PM   
fcharton

 

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June 16th 1943

We’re still moving, but at a very slow rate, as work is a bit demanding on my side.

In New Guinea, Madang fell easily to the second deliberate attack. I had a reinforced regiment, behind forts, but a few weeks of air bombing had destroyed all their supplies, and one naval bombardment was all it took to send disruption in the high 50s, and doom the units.

Once Madang has fallen, and its level four airfield is rebuilt (a matter of days for allied engineers), Lae becomes almost impossible to protect, and my opponent has been landing troops there, uncontested, for over a week. He'll attack once he judges he has enough, and will take the base, and move on. And in the end, three division worth of troops, all behind prepared positions, will be lost.

A week ago, KB struck against the landings in Madang. We sank a CA Northampton and a Canadian corvette (the Dawson). CL Trenton was reported sunk a few days later, but I doubt it. This was a good strike, but it failed to hinder the landings.

In the Dutch Indies, KB disrupted the landings in Babo. We couldn’t prevent the base from falling, but sank at least three CLAA (Juneau, San Juan and San Diego), a light cruiser (Helena) and two destroyers, a troop ship (unfortunately empty) and a pair of cargoes.

Finally, a raid against a supply run in Port Blair sank CA Cornwall and CLAA Van Heemskerck, and possibly CA Frobisher. In Burma, my opponent in reinforcing his line, but the front, along the indian border, is stable.

The air war is becoming increasingly unbalanced. Over the first half of the month, I lost 680 planes to 320 allies, but when it comes to fighter losses, the ratio is much worse. With 130 Hellcats and 30 Corsairs produced every month since May, my opponent can afford to commit modern fighters most of the time, and it will only get worst next month, when he gets 50 P-38H and as many P47-D2. In terms of speed, all but the Hellcat are much faster than my fastest fighter (Tojo), and neither my Zeroes or Oscar can cope with them. This means I’m stuck with ever increasing exchange rates, at a time when Allied production is getting larger than mine (I’m producing 1500 planes a month, and so do the Allies).

Next month, I’m getting the Oscar IIIa and the Tojo IIc, I began producing the A6M5b in June. I’m not sure they will make a lot of difference, though.


Overall, the current situation seems pretty typical of the mid-game period, when Japan has to spend troops, and planes, and ships, to try and delay the juggernaut.

New Guinea and Burma are the two sides of the coin. In the former, sending lots of troops to Lae and the area allowed me the keep the Allies off the Bismarck Sea until now. And moving lots Chinese troops to Burma means the Allies are stuck on the Indian border, and will probably remain there until I choose to retreat. I believe this is a good thing, as once the allies begin moving forward, their advantage in supply capacity and building speed means they can build their forward bases (and the umbrella under which they advance) much faster than you can build your defenses. And the game is soon over once they get in range of your industry.

But then, manning your front position means losing those troops early in the game, since the game offers little options in term of evacuation and retreat. I believe this summarizes the midgame Japanese dilemma: how many troops are you ready to throw away, in order to delay Allied advance. If you are too conservative, Allies bombers will get into range of your factories much too early. If you are too lavish, you won’t have the reserves to hold the line, once the front is broken.

I believe this justifies the aggressive strategies, where Japan moves much farther than its historical perimeter, that seem to have become so popular among seasoned AE players. The best way to slow Allied advance, is to make it as long as possible.

Is this “history done right” (as wargaming should be)? I have my doubts about it. The idea that the correct way to play Japan is to capture all of China, just after declaring war upon the US, and then go for Manila instead of Hawaii, because you’d rather have the subs than the old BB, and then jump for Perth, or Bombay, or Noumea, or maybe even all of them, sounds a bit like “blitzkrieg gone mad” to me.

On the other hand, the idea that, in this game and many others that reached mid-43, Japan, not having lost KB at Midway, having better supplies because of scenario 2, and having managed a larger perimeter than historical, could be 100% on the defensive by 1943 seems a bit exaggerated. And the fact that many games where the Allies fared much worse than historical in 42 end up with resounding Allied victories in 44 adds to the suspicion.

The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced something is wrong in the grand scenario, which suggests something is rotten in the system itself. More precisely, I think the system favours offense and underplays defense. This is the reason why the Allies, once production and reinforcements set in, can raise from the dead and land in Korea in 44. This is also the reason why Japan can, and should, take China, no matter the home rules and stacking limits. And this explains why going for Karachi, Tahiti or Auckland are sound goals for June 1942…

Why is this so? I think the system downplays friction, in the most Clausewitzian sense of the word (Murphy, in modern parlance). In the game, like in reality, lots of things can go wrong, no doubt, and this is why AE is a great game, but if you push the correct buttons, everything will go right, much righter than it should. And the lack of friction favours offense over defence.

Why is this so? I believe this happens because AE was developed by a mixture of servicemen and scientists (some being both, you know who you are), who tend to trust their tools (formulae or doctrine) a bit more than they should. In my opinion (note that I’m saying that on my AAR, and wouldn’t venture to go as far on some other forum thread), you see this a lot on the forum, where the typical ‘rant’ thread, is always “why was this not successful?” and never “why didn’t this fail?”, and the typical response is “you forgot to push button X and Y, silly you (and please read thread nr XXX our google up question nr YYY)” and seldom “because never ever gets right”.

Where am I getting at? I think Clausewitz got it right, when he explains friction (or Murphy) is what explains why we don’t “get to the extremes” (ie why winner doesn’t take all, ie why it is not all about size). There is something asymmetric in war, which make offense unjustly hard, and defense unreasonably easy. And I think this is what AE fails to model accurately.

And the result, in the grand campaign of a very involving and time consuming game , is very unfortunate : it means lots of (allied) players will drop in 1942, as the all powerful Japanese get everything they want, all the time, and the rest (Japanese) will drop in 43, once they’ve lost the KB, and everything gets mad.

But there are counterexamples? Yeah,but look at them : counterexamples only happen when the match is terribly unbalanced. Nemo can defend in 42, yeah, but he’s Nemo. Rader can manage against an absolute newbie, but only until 43, since the newb happened to be Greyjoy.

Right, sorry, if I sound like I’m ranting, I didn’t mean to. I believe what I wanted to explain is that we either need shorter scenarios (but then we lose the production side of Japan, which is bad) or a serious reflection about GC balance. And if you're an AFB reading this, keep in mind that unless the AI becomes what it isn't now, and unless you're one of those types who delight reading the rules and not playing the games, you need happy JFB to play...




< Message edited by fcharton -- 8/30/2014 2:51:26 PM >

(in reply to fcharton)
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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 8/30/2014 3:57:33 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton
And the result, in the grand campaign of a very involving and time consuming game , is very unfortunate : it means lots of (allied) players will drop in 1942, as the all powerful Japanese get everything they want, all the time, and the rest (Japanese) will drop in 43, once they’ve lost the KB, and everything gets mad.

But there are counterexamples?


I think there is a middle way...and when I get bummed looking at Allied strength, etc, I go back and read some of Captain Crufts excellent AAR. What an absolute pity it died before completion.

He did not over exploit early, he was looking to win the end game, protect the Hive. A really interesting strategy, and he was using interesting tools to get there and personal preferences (like not wanting to build George because it was ugly and nose heavy)

His outlook was really fresh, he kind of was looking forward to running out of fuel/oil. He didn't conquer China, etc. Was losing lots of ships to submarines, etc... he almost pulled off a masterpiece at Hong Kong.

Ok, it is a more boring way to play Japan, that is until the end. He got enjoyment from little things...Rex's flying out of dot bases for unescorted bombers, etc.

Yeah, it sucks being Japan in mid 43, and even more in mid 44, and even worse in mid 45. But I don't think the game engine is broken...more like the players have much better foresight and planning and naturally favor the bold offensive.







(in reply to fcharton)
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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 8/31/2014 1:59:04 AM   
PaxMondo


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Francois,

Well, and like you said AFB's need to control themselves a bit, the single largest un-balancer in this game is hindsight for the allies. Like JWE said a couple of days ago, Truk was just a lagoon with a few service ships, not the huge operational front naval yard that the allies thought it was. Ditto everything else. The allies were IRL methodical, slow, careful because they didn't know. They thought IJN had many more CV's than they had ... they thought there was a squadron of Yamato's ... etc etc etc.

The truth, now known, is that everything was on a shoestring. The allied players know this. All they have to do is await '43 Essex deliveries, concentrate their forces, and the IJ historically is NOT able to stop them. They don't have enough of anything to do it.

To counteract that 20/20 hindsight, to make the game at least somewhat challenging for the allied player and keep it fun for a while for the IJ so that there actually are IJ players you must give the IJ players some a-historical bonuses in the GC game OR only play very short scenarios (like JWE). There really isn't much middle ground here.

You are in a Scen 2, but PDU off. PDU off is a nightmare for the IJ. It locks the IJ into historical aircraft plans while the allies are free to exploit their knowledge of true IJ dispositions and capabilities. I applaud anyone who attempts a PDU OFF game (like I applauded you), as I will never attempt one again, not even against the AI (especially Andy's Ironman AI).

PDU ON is a key balancer: it removes some of the allied players hindsight. That forces them to be a bit more cautious. Yes, many IJ players over-produce AC and by early '44 are out of supply and crash their economy and the game ends abrubtly. However, that is starting to be realized and in recent AAR's it appears that some of the IJ players are being a bit more realisitc with their 42/43 AC production. Xargun and Kaleun's AARs come to mind.

So, where you are now ... in WWII neither side could hold a position, no matter the initial fortification, when the other side wanted it. They could take it back, but you can't hold it. This is true in the game: you cannot hold any position that the allies want. PzB showed all IJ players how to play, delay and counterstrike. His mastery of that is gold. Waigapoe was just one example. He also proved with Christmas island that you cannot hold a position, no matter what.

Rather than attempting to strongly garrison everything, you need garrison lightly just enough to force the allies to land obstructed. Then you need to be able to counter, HARD. If you can't, don't defend. Re-entrench back to a point that you can. For me that is to basically the PI. Sometimes I might try the Marianans, but they are tough. And PDU OFF. they might very well be impossible.

As for AC, in a PDU OFF game, no you do not have any AC to counter the allies 1:1. The only counter you have are numbers. Large numbers. My guess is that you need 3:1 numbers with Oscar/Zero in any dogfight now to have a chance. Very difficult to bring those numbers to bear. But really, I wouldn't fight unless I can get those odds. In '44 you will need 4:1 or higher, because you are still essentially Oscar/Zero. Even in '46, the number of air groups that are still constrained to Zero/Oscar is very high. But that's the game.

So, back up. Look where you can get the numbers advantages that you need. Get those AF's ready to support those numbers. Create some smokescreens to disguise your real MLR. Can you win? Heck no. Can you bloody the allies nose? Oh yeah. Can you keep him out of the HI? In a PDU OFF game, that would be a MASTER - STROKE achievement. So, that would be my goal. Just keep him out of the HI .... very tough. Maybe doable. I really don't know ... hopefully you can show us.



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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 8/31/2014 6:08:50 AM   
GreyJoy


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Don't know if i completely agree here Francois.
Don't really think the game favours the offender so much over the defender.
To be honest, in my last allied game (against Mr.Kane) i felt the opposite. Even i late 1944 i felt there were places i couldn't break through, no matter how hard i tried.
PDU OFF seems to be the best way to re-create a bit of balance in mid-game periods.
With PDU ON a good IJ player could easily force the allies to a statlemate in the air, even in mid 1944.
No matter how good your P-47s are, if Japan s able to field endless number of KI-84r and N1K5s since mid 1943 and waves of KI-83 starting from 1944, the allies will simply never get through.

However, i agree with Pax: NG is more or less undefendable for the Empire once the allies break the line. I've been right there against QBall and the best thing i could do was to make him pay for every advance he took (just like you're doing!).
As Pax said, you need to garrison everything and at the same time keep a good bunch of troops and materials to be able to build another line back in the PI while the allies get their bloody noses in NG...


(in reply to PaxMondo)
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RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 8/31/2014 9:36:03 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Very good post Francois.

I think you are touching a very important point about AE in its current state. To put it simply the balance is gone and this has a very simple explanation. JFBs and AFBs simply got a lot better at what they are doing. This is I think why we are seeing (in some games) these huge swings in momentum. This is made worse by complete knowledge about your opponents strengths and weaknesses. Completely knowledge on what arrives, when and where and how much.

This is nothing special and it happens in every MP game. This is especially evident in MMPORPGs or online shooters like COD/BF/CS where they can release hundreds of patches just to fix imbalances as players find them, and exploit them. This is the nature of human beings. If you find something that will give you an advantage over your opponent(s) you will use it. All developers know this and spend a lot of time trying to find the right balance between everything.

Sadly I don´t we are going to see this kind of necessary balancing done from the developers. Most likely there will never be any more "official" patches. So we need to look for MODs to get some better balance.

I think JIII is on the right path with his latest mods by veering away from "history" and trying to make the game more "fun" to play for both sides. This is what I personally feel is needed for the MP community of AE. Most of us who play MP doesn´t care too much about "historical plausibility" or trying to reenact the war. We want to play a fun game. Of course there are exceptions to this and some players are probably happy playing their PBEMs in a historical manner. But personally I would like to see a more competitive Scenario/Mod that would see the allies stronger in 42/43 and the Japanese stronger in 44/45 compared to how the game currently is. The game does not get better by giving the Japanese more stuff early on as SCEN 2 does. In 9 cases out of 10 it only makes the Japanese player push harder, further and stronger in 42 rather then using those extra assets as a buffer in 43-44. And when the air goes of of that push the Japanese end up having burnt the candle in both ends and quickly collapses and resign.

I realize getting such a mod done would be a monumental task. But I would certainly play it and I think many other would too. And there is certainly no lack of talent and ingenuity in the AE mod community. JuanGs solution how to give the allied player the ability to "buy" planes is simply pure genius.

Regarding PDU ON I share what GJ says. JFBs can squeeze so much out of the industry at this point that I strongly feel the game is very close to unplayable with PDU ON. This was very evident in GJs game vs Tom where he simply swept the allies aside by focusing on a few extremely good models while having almost unlimited numbers. I´m not sure it won´t be the other way around with PDU OFF though. If it is then it only proves my point about the need of trying to find a balance in the game again. PDU ON was probably perfectly fine in the first PBEMs before JFBs got really good at streamlining the industry. We finally have a couple of games going on with PDU OFF and some fantastic JFBs behind the wheels. If they cannot hack it with PDU OFF then no one will. These 3 games will certainly be enough to pass verdict on PDU ON/OFF once and for all.

Personally I think the verdict will be that none of them work very well...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 758
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 8/31/2014 1:44:59 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

... And when the air goes of of that push the Japanese end up having burnt the candle in both ends and quickly collapses and resign.

... PDU ON was probably perfectly fine in the first PBEMs before JFBs got really good at streamlining the industry. We finally have a couple of games going on with PDU OFF and some fantastic JFBs behind the wheels. If they cannot hack it with PDU OFF then no one will. These 3 games will certainly be enough to pass verdict on PDU ON/OFF once and for all.

Personally I think the verdict will be that none of them work very well...

If I put your above sentence with PDU ON (which you did not intend), I agree with you. That is why I am interested to see how Kaleun and Xargun end up ... they are being more conservative with their economy.

JFB's are better at the economy, but if you build 2000 Tojo/month, you will collapse in '45 or sooner. We have seen that repeatedly. Almost every AAR last year ended up that way; the IJ couldn't make it to 1/45 as they ran out of supply. Even the ones they won (Mr Kane), the IJ was completely backrupt. In fact, it is very hard not to collapse it at half that rate. So, if I am playing the allies, (if, as you know I don't ), about the only HR I would insist on would be predetermined minimum supply levels to ensure the IJ player isn't doing something stupid that will kill the game. Something simple like:
Start = 3.5M supply
1/43 = 4.5M
1/44 = 5.5M

This basically forces the IJ player to NOT implode their economy until such a time as there is no choice. If they have at least 6M supply empire wide 6/44, they are able to mount a credible defense. 8M is better, but even 6M would prevent the insane numbers of AC in 42/43.

As the allied player, now I know that I have a game where some rationality is in place. I know my opponent isn't going to kami his entire country in '42 which isn't a realisitic option. Both Hitler and the IJ junta had to down play the war heavily until '43 to the general populace to avoid internal repercussions. call the supply levels the "butter margins" that both dictators had to employ to keep civil unrest in check.

Or maybe the IJ players have learned not to implode their economies on their own ....

Just a thought ....

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Pax

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 759
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 10/4/2014 5:48:34 PM   
fcharton

 

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Sorry for the long delay, September was probably the busiest month I ever had. Just as we were trying to get a very big client (Publicis) to sign with us, issues that hadn’t been checked for a while began going wrong, and so, as the owner, lead developer, oldest kid on the block, and only one with some experience of this specific market, I ended up being developer, tester, data troubleshooter, and spec writer, trying to meet all the deadlines you need in September if you want the contract to begin in January. This meant very long hours, seven days a week, so much for the image of the lazy Frenchman… We’re mostly out of it now. My younger colleagues are getting back into the game, our prospect didn’t notice anything, I slept away the very long hours. And today, I sent Spence my first replay in a month. The game looks a bit like a blank slate to me, which might actually be a good thing.

Fortunately, Spence was on holiday during half of the month. He and his wife visited northeastern France (Verdun, Alsace, and the Ardennes), and we had a chance to meet when they were in Paris (this might have been the only evening in September when I didn’t work). The Pacific didn’t feature prominently on the menu, but we had dinner (frog legs for Spence, with a pretty decent white Mercurey), a long walk through the city (Paris is a very walkable city because it is relatively small), a couple of drinks, and a good chat. I couldn’t help bu notice that a very specific centre of interest, like AE, tends to bring together “compatible” people. Spence is exactly the kind of people I tend to like in real life, without AE. So… dear readers, if you’re in Paris and have an afternoon or evening off, I’m a PM away…

But back to the game and the discussion. First thank you very much for all the responses, they do make a lot of sense. Lowpe, I did read Cruft’s AAR, which was a lot of fun, but whereas there are a lot of tactical gems in it, the overall approach is very specific. As Cruft explains in the beginning, the whole thing is predicated on a very conservative Allied opponent (just the opposite of what we get most of the time), and PDU On. Note also that in 44, his perimeter was extremely small. But I agree with you that Cruft, or Obvert’s AAR against Jocke are great reads, because they never throw the towel, and you get a lot of tactical ideas for the late game (I wish I could do this).

But your points on hindsight are well taken. Just knowing what your reinforcement schedule looks like is an enormous departure from reality.

JocMeister, I agree with you on balance, and the fact that giving Japan new toys might not be the way to go. In my opinion, a much better balancing act would be to reduce the US reinforcements, to compensate for the hindsight. A similar approach could help balancing the early Japanese expansion: make some of the ships, and troops, that were’nt used in the early expansion, reinforcements, and Japan will have to operate on a tighter budget than what we usually see.

The idea is always the same: you have more information than your historical counterparts, thanks to hindsight, but you can’t act on it, because the OOB limits the number of units you may actually deploy.

Pax, I really like your points on supply expenses. I think this is a real problem with AE: the game is so long that it almost never gets into 45, in fact many games get decided in 42, with one side conceding victory after losing the carriers (which IMO is totally ahistorical). And even if you don’t throw the towel, 1945 is so far down the game that there is little incentive to play conservatively. We’re seeing it in many current games: trying to break Allied will, and force them to surrender in 42 after they lost their carriers, is the soundest approach for Japan, even if it means making your economy unsustainable. I think the length of the game is a problem, here. Most of us don’t really expect to see 45 when we begin a game. In fact, the GC tends to be a 1942 scenario…

Anyway, thank you very much for all the replies, and back to the game. I need to get back into the war, and start planning my defenses. I will update this AAR on a more regular basis (it does help a lot…). Right now, the game looks like a blank slate : the little planning I had done was lost in the September work craze, and I need to look at this game just as if it were the first turn of a scenario.

Looking back at the game so far, I realize I didn’t plan enough, and this was partly because I lack the tools. Tracker is a great reporting tool, but I’ve never really managed to use it for planning. I’m not crazy about having tons of Excel spreadsheets managing the war. It looks a bit like an accountant’s nightmare. I’m pretty sure something can be done, using Tracker as a source of information. I’ve been learning Ruby recently and it might be a good way to try and see how it works in real.



(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 760
RE: Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J) - 10/4/2014 10:50:27 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Hi Francois. Good to see you back. A very excellent post up there on the game, and just good reflections about the difficulties of negotiating the abstracts and limitations of the AE by a number of players.

The only contribution I want to make just now is on defense. One thing we've not had yet is a real calculation of the cost of infrastructure for Japan, including field, port and fort building. The cost is as high as the player is thorough. If he/she has the time because of a good opening to continue the preparation for defense well into 43 the defense is more solid, but the cost is higher and the economic wheels might come off sooner. I was able because of a very fortunate CV encounter in late 42 to slow Jocke's offensive for a good while, allowing much more intensive preparation of at least the first few layers of defense, and yet in the end couldn't get enough bullets in rifles.

It worked for a while. The Allies moved, but they were stalled in spots, specifically Burma, for a good time. I was able to use the forts to slow movement in the Pacific, the KB to take a tithe for moving forward, and the flotilla of patrol planes and transports dedicated to moving men and equipment to actually evacuate entire divisions. (Part of this made easier by a bug causing ineffective LR CAP, later fixed).

Evacuation, and even loss and rebuilding, is an option for Japan, and where barges don't function quite as well as in reality, flying boats and transports are more effective than they could ever have been.

In places these planes were also used for last minute ops to fly in troops just before a base was attacked, thus stalling an advance as the prepped unit was no longer able to take the base.

The limitations of the game are sometimes frustrating, but they also can be used as a constructive constraint, squeezing our box of tools so that we have to be creative in order to find new methods and strategies, many of which bear little relationship to the war we're fascinated by and trying to understand more fully.

While I did make a good number of mistakes in the game against Jocke, and did end up running for the hills instead of digging in and fighting to the last man in true Japanese fashion on many occasions, I do think I learned a lot and defended to the end. My capacity to persevere and adapt both tactically and strategically really developed throughout the match, and I saw that in my opponent as well. He got tougher and tougher, and didn't drive Japan into a corner just because the Allies have more stuff but because of how he learned new ways of using it all.

Mainly, we learned each other, and that is the primary focus of this game to me, to have a hard fought social gaming experience with another player and share that with a community.

The game may not be as good as it could be if it were remade now with the tools available and the understanding of the current limitations, but it is still getting better, not just through the developers work (thanks DBB and michaelm!) but through all of the collective knowledge, skill, creativity and audacity of it's players, who keep learning how to make it do what they want in spite of it's cranky old code.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to fcharton)
Post #: 761
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