1 km hex scale - how to ?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Scenario Design >> 1 km hex scale - how to ?

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1 km hex scale - how to ? - 3/1/2012 4:02:34 AM

Grognard

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From: Madison, Wisconsin
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Did a search and also went back in this forum all the way but couldn't find any how to's on creating a 1 km hex scale. I've been wanting to convert my old GDW boardgame "Avalanche" since TOAW I. Any help and/or links would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.....

An unrelated note:

To Panama or any other interested folks: Some years ago I burned ALL the Univ of Texas (Austin) Castanada maps of Barbarossa Russia and Finland to disc - 5 discs actually. Don't know exactly how we'd work out the logistics but I'd be happy to copy them & do a snail mail.........

My way of giving back to the community for all the help I've gleaned over the years.

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RE: 1 km hex scale - how to ? - 3/1/2012 9:45:17 AM

Oberst_Klink

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Kamerad 'Iron Brigade'

this should answer your questions - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2807060&mpage=1&key=1km�

You also should get in touch with Telumar, Bob Cross and Erik Nygaard; they created a few scenarios with the 1km/hex scale.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: 1 km hex scale - how to ? - 3/1/2012 4:08:11 PM

Grognard

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From: Madison, Wisconsin
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Thanks for the reply - but..... The link in the post gave me a "page not found" error. I downloaded the Anzio zips and will look at them - but I'm not sure what I'm looking for.

In ACOW and earlier the 1 km conversion was in the *.exe. I assume this has changed. I will look at Erik's Bridge Too Far (one of my all time favorites - but ONLY if 1st Airborne takes Deelen and brings in 52nd Airlanding Div - otherwise too many dead Red Devils) (PIAT's vs Mk V's & Mk VI's - very depressing) and again see what I can.

Right now I'm thinking - use Bioed in ACOW and convert the scenario - yes? Or is there currently another way? Will Bioed work on TOAW III? Maybe I should stop asking silly questions and start experimenting -

duh

quote:

Kamerad 'Iron Brigade'

If this is for my avatar it is (was) the 14th Armored Cavalry Regiment (later the 11th ACR) - in the middle of the Fulda Gap. Our life expectancy was about 20 min

Thanks again

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RE: 1 km hex scale - how to ? - 3/1/2012 4:14:06 PM

Oberst_Klink

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Well, I figured you were Armoured Cavalry, alas not the 'Black Horse' Cav ;)

With Iron Brigade I referred to the WI, MI etc. boys of the American Civil War outfit :) Co.K, 45th PVI, when I was active as re-enactor back in the late 90s in the US and Co.A, 1st MI as part of the German Union Battalion...

I would use the Eqp Editor, aye. What database or scenario conversion are you looking for? WW2, WW3?

Klink, Oberst

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RE: 1 km hex scale - how to ? - 3/1/2012 5:49:04 PM

Grognard

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Actually I was "Blackhorse". They retired the 14th ACR a few months after I arrived and transferred the 11th from Viet Nam. The guys who transferred with the colors wore the same patch on both shoulders. Ich habe in Bad Hersfeld gewohnt. I Troop, 3rd Squadron

Just spent some time in Bioed and there is nothing vis a vis direct hex scaling so I assume I must adjust ranged artillery to scale and use movement bias to adjust movement.

Or I could just use one of the 1km .exe's from ACOW, convert to TOAW3 and then override the equipment with a WW2 .eqp file of my choosing. Would that work? Or would I still have to Bioed ranges and movement? I'll be doing Avalanche first - a very interesting standalone scenario possibilty I have always thought. The closest scenario I have found is "Italy '43" but the scale doesn't do it justice.
Mine will be company/platoon level of course.

Didn't the Iron Brigade become the 1st Inf Div?

Attachment (1)

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RE: 1 km hex scale - how to ? - 3/1/2012 6:56:48 PM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognard

Or I could just use one of the 1km .exe's from ACOW, convert to TOAW3 and then override the equipment with a WW2 .eqp file of my choosing. Would that work? Or would I still have to Bioed ranges and movement? I'll be doing Avalanche first - a very interesting standalone scenario possibilty I have always thought. The closest scenario I have found is "Italy '43" but the scale doesn't do it justice.
Mine will be company/platoon level of course.

Didn't the Iron Brigade become the 1st Inf Div?

OK Trooper...

a) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2346553

Use Andy's equipment editor; highly recommended. For your Italian theatre scenario I'd suggest to use Telumar's 1km equipment database; you also should test his Anzio@1km to get the feel how things work at that level. He used the TOAW to it's max. capabilities and I personally would not use Coy/Plt scales; unless the coy breaks up into 3 Plts.

b) from Wiki:

The 2nd Brigade of the U.S. Army's 1st Armored Division has carried the Iron Brigade moniker since 1985 and was previously called the "Black Hat" Brigade.

The 3rd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division is also known as the Iron Brigade. Its unit crest is similar to the medals issued to veterans of the both Western and the Eastern Iron Brigades of the Army of the Potomac.

The 1st Heavy Brigade Combat Team of the 2nd Infantry Division (United States) is known as the Iron Brigade as well. Located at Camp Casey Korea, the brigade has a critical role of military deterrence on the Korean Peninsula.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: 1 km hex scale - how to ? - 3/1/2012 9:33:45 PM

Telumar

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

OK Trooper...

a) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2346553

Use Andy's equipment editor; highly recommended. For your Italian theatre scenario I'd suggest to use Telumar's 1km equipment database; you also should test his Anzio@1km to get the feel how things work at that level. He used the TOAW to it's max. capabilities and I personally would not use Coy/Plt scales; unless the coy breaks up into 3 Plts.

It's all in the Anzio 1km briefing. I not only adjusted artillery ranges with BioEd, but also used the new editor features like readiness/supply cost for movement i.e (among others). For Anzio i used Derek Weich's WWII database. You may also want to take a look at 'Nijmegen 1944', another 1km scenario where i used Brian Wilson's WWII equipment database.

Note that at 1km and 6 hour turns motorized movement rates are somewhere in the 30ies which might not be ideal for an igo-ugo system like TOAW. Besides there are range issues (not with the engine.. but with reality) with automatic weapons (AA, MGs) and Tank/AT Guns.

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RE: 1 km hex scale - how to ? - 3/2/2012 3:11:20 AM

Grognard

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quote:

I personally would not use Coy/Plt scales; unless the coy breaks up into 3 Plts.

Initial German deployment included some armor platoons on the beaches and I think platoon breakdowns of armor only best models RL SOP. The original game (again - GDW "Avalanche") only allowed for armor company breakdowns and then only into 3 platoons.

quote:

Besides there are range issues (not with the engine.. but with reality) with automatic weapons (AA, MGs) and Tank/AT Guns.

This is a very interesting point I had not considered before. In Norm's own words "at a scale just exceeding the range of direct fire weapons" (blessed be Norm

)

Just off the top of my head I seem to recall the effective range of a Pz III 50mm (short) was almost out to 1500 m. I'll research effective ranges now for sure. Weapons w/less than 2000 m effective ranges IMO still works at this scale given RL vagaries and LOS considerations.
In open terrain with LOS > 2000 m and weapons capable of that range or better I think we just have to allow that RL will not be modeled perfectly but still take consolation in the fact that the majority of engagements probably were at much lesser ranges.
Maybe one workaround could be the choice of unit icon for HMG's/Inf Arty/AA. Unfortunately the heavy weapons icon does not allow for ranged support (unlike the original boardgame) (wishlist?) but the infantry artillery icon does.

Thanks so much for the input gentlemen......
Like I said - this is one scenario I've wanted to do for TOAW since the last millenium

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Scenario Design >> 1 km hex scale - how to ?

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