Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I
Of course as Aurelian cleverly points out everytime, "this is what the editor is for whiners." Nevertheless we all know that nothing replace an actual changing and patching of the official release...

quote:

ORIGINAL: kg_1007

Quite true Randall, but, in both cases, it was the fact that the majority of the German concentration was in the east, that even allowed the western allies to be there. One more division at Anzio, and it would have crushed the landing. One more division at Normandy, or even the "chief idiot" Hitler, allowing the panzer reserves that already were there, to move up sooner, and that landing would have been a disaster that the allies would not have recovered from. This was known to the allied generals, also, in the case of Eisenhower, who held a note in his pocket apologizing for the disaster, "just in case"..and the British general Brooks, who expected a disaster.
Deception efforts caused the Germans to spread so thinly trying to cover many unreal targets, so that they could not concentrate on the real one, a great job, a great strategy, but HARDLY a "sure thing"...and much less so, had not the Wehrmacht still put about 60-65% of their effort in the east. Even going beyond, since it is a game, had Hitler listened to generals such as v Rundstedt, Guderian, Manstein, etc..he would have avoided most of the "first blizzard" losses, as well, which were the PRIMARY reason for the switch to weaker TOE..as a player, we perhaps have an unfair advantage already knowing that those generals were correct, but we should still have some way of not making the mistake, or at least, some luck involved, instead of automatically assuming we will make those mistakes, and programming into the game, that we will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kg_1007

Quite true Randall, but, in both cases, it was the fact that the majority of the German concentration was in the east, that even allowed the western allies to be there. One more division at Anzio, and it would have crushed the landing. One more division at Normandy, or even the "chief idiot" Hitler, allowing the panzer reserves that already were there, to move up sooner, and that landing would have been a disaster that the allies would not have recovered from. This was known to the allied generals, also, in the case of Eisenhower, who held a note in his pocket apologizing for the disaster, "just in case"..and the British general Brooks, who expected a disaster.
Deception efforts caused the Germans to spread so thinly trying to cover many unreal targets, so that they could not concentrate on the real one, a great job, a great strategy, but HARDLY a "sure thing"...and much less so, had not the Wehrmacht still put about 60-65% of their effort in the east. Even going beyond, since it is a game, had Hitler listened to generals such as v Rundstedt, Guderian, Manstein, etc..he would have avoided most of the "first blizzard" losses, as well, which were the PRIMARY reason for the switch to weaker TOE..as a player, we perhaps have an unfair advantage already knowing that those generals were correct, but we should still have some way of not making the mistake, or at least, some luck involved, instead of automatically assuming we will make those mistakes, and programming into the game, that we will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kg_1007

Actually, German casualties in the east throughout the war, historically, were 80+% of their total casualties..and in the last few years of the war, after the "second front"..from November 1943-VE Day April 1945, their total(both front)casualties were roughly 5.000.000, and of these, approximately 3.450.000 were on the East Front( 69% of their casualties in the wars final 17 months, AFTER the western allies began their offensives in Europe)
Of committed forces, not casualties..the following numbers give also roughly the same percentage..

July 1943 Total troops in Heer 3.933.000...deployed to East Front 2.477.790(63%)
June 1944 Total troops in Heer 2.522.000 deployed to East Front 1.573.728 (62+%)
January, 1945 Total troops in Heer 2.234.000 deployed againt Russians(east front, but by now, inside greater Germany in some areas) 1.344.872 (60%+)

Note numbers sourced from various works, wikipedia, slaughterhouse:handbook of the eastern front, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I
Of course as Aurelian cleverly points out everytime, "this is what the editor is for whiners." Nevertheless we all know that nothing replace an actual changing and patching of the official release...

Can you show where I say that every time? I can't recall.

But you right about one thing. That is one reason there is an editor. Though I can't recall pointing that out.

But what you are unaware of something else. Or just plain ignore it.

The TOE changes are set in stone for this game. Not my decision, as I have nothing to do with any part of the design or development. Since it isn't a bug, it's off the radar.

All one has to do is two things. First, understand that the game has been out for a year. And despite the complaining, TOEs haven't changed.

Second, read the forums. Save's one alot of useless angst. Like "Why can't Axis build support units."

Here ya go: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3055488&mpage=1&key=?

"If you really want to play an "historically based" fantasy game where the Germans fight the Red Army to a standstill while the Western Allies sweep across Germany, be my guest but don't expect me to change the TOE upgrades so you can indulge that fantasy; that's what you have an editor for."

Said by......wait for it......jaw. Funny how you forgot that. Especially considering you qouted him.

You doing it yourself would insure that *you* get what you want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

I
Of course as Aurelian cleverly points out everytime, "this is what the editor is for whiners." Nevertheless we all know that nothing replace an actual changing and patching of the official release...

Can you show where I say that every time? I can't recall.

But you right about one thing. That is one reason there is an editor. Though I can't recall pointing that out.

But what you are unaware of something else. Or just plain ignore it.

The TOE changes are set in stone for this game. Not my decision, as I have nothing to do with any part of the design or development. Since it isn't a bug, it's off the radar.

All one has to do is two things. First, understand that the game has been out for a year. And despite the complaining, TOEs haven't changed.

Second, read the forums. Save's one alot of useless angst. Like "Why can't Axis build support units."

Here ya go: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3055488&mpage=1&key=?

"If you really want to play an "historically based" fantasy game where the Germans fight the Red Army to a standstill while the Western Allies sweep across Germany, be my guest but don't expect me to change the TOE upgrades so you can indulge that fantasy; that's what you have an editor for."

Said by......wait for it......jaw. Funny how you forgot that. Especially considering you qouted him.

You doing it yourself would insure that *you* get what you want.

No offense Aurelian, it was just a tongue in cheek comment. I am glad to be reassured that OKH actually bothering to get 1100 functionning on trains to be brought back to Germany to be then cut to pieces, molten and than used as pitch forks and hammers is completely WAD... pfiouu for a moment I had a doubt.

quote:

ORIGINAL:  Schmart
Another (most likely unintended) by-product of this hard coded TOE reduction, is that in the case of AFVs, any obsolete tanks will vanish into the pools and not be used, as the first tanks to go will be those that are no longer in production. As an extreme example, the German player could have 100's of Panther Ds still in Panzer units, but with a TOE reduction most would go to the pool and not be used, as they are no longer in production in 1945 and therefore are considered to be 'obsolete', because unfourtunately the AFV (and aircraft) replacement/upgrade routines are not fine tuned (nor adaptable to in game realities). The game would only accept Panther Gs as acceptable replacements in 1945. Just another argument for allowing manual upgrades/changing of AFVs by the player.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kg_1007

..the magical ability of the Soviets to remove encircled troops, ...