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Thinking About Buying This Game - 4/7/2012 10:31:12 PM

Metalist

Posts: 28
Joined: 4/6/2012
Status: offline

Hello!
For a long time i am looking for a WWII wargame. First i saw War in the East, but because of its price and some posts i saw i decided not to take it, then i found TOAW. However, i have not played a turn based WW2 game before thus i have some questions and expectations. First of all, what is this game all about? Are there short scenarios like a Case Yellow or Case Blue, or is there grand campaign like 1939-1946? Also is there production in game or just war? What about turns, and size of map? I want a game which is as much as detailed, realistic and historical in some cases like order of battle. Also game should not end quickly, should keep me for a long time. I am mostly interested with European Theatre and Germany, especially defending the Reich in 1944 and 1945. Should i get TOAW III?

Thanks in advance, i will ask if anything else comes to my mind.

Post #: 1

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 4/8/2012 2:02:47 AM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Metalist

Hello!
For a long time i am looking for a WWII wargame. First i saw War in the East, but because of its price and some posts i saw i decided not to take it, then i found TOAW. However, i have not played a turn based WW2 game before thus i have some questions and expectations. First of all, what is this game all about? Are there short scenarios like a Case Yellow or Case Blue, or is there grand campaign like 1939-1946? Also is there production in game or just war? What about turns, and size of map? I want a game which is as much as detailed, realistic and historical in some cases like order of battle. Also game should not end quickly, should keep me for a long time. I am mostly interested with European Theatre and Germany, especially defending the Reich in 1944 and 1945. Should i get TOAW III?

Thanks in advance, i will ask if anything else comes to my mind.

TOAW is a game system that runs user-made scenarios. It comes with hundreds of pre-designed scenarios. And there are litterally hundreds more user-made scenarios that are available from various scenario depositories. Each is equivalent to a full-blown wargame in itself. The game comes with an editor that allows virtually any 20th-Century land operational situation to be modeled. Scales allowed range from 2.5km to 50km hexes and 6-hour to full-week turns. And designers have often strayed beyond those limits in every manner.

Look in the FAQ stickied thread, post #24, for a document attachment that describes the TOAW III scenarios. The detail, realism, and historical accuracy of scenarios varies widely, of course. But there are many scenarios that are very professional. True production is not yet part of the game system, but some designers have tried to address it via the event system and other means.

You can also look at some of the AARs on this board for some ideas of how well the game system works.

< Message edited by Curtis Lemay -- 4/8/2012 2:03:15 AM >

(in reply to Metalist)

Post #: 2

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 4/8/2012 4:01:36 AM

shauny1987

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Joined: 8/28/2010
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I think despite how it looks, the game has alot of simple - medium level scenarios for a newbie to ease himself into the game in!
Then there are some huge ones........ for massive slaughterfests!

Also the game (fairly recently) had a pretty large patch, which is amazing considering how old it is.

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 3

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 4/8/2012 10:08:07 AM

Metalist

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Joined: 4/6/2012
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Hello, thanks for responses. I looked to scenarios and there are very nice ones. I think this game is the game i am looking for

I have another question about production, i saw two scenarios which cover 1939-1945 and 1941-1945. In those scenarios, will i be able to produce panzer and infantry divisions, air units and submarines, or will those units come by event or something? Thanks in advance.

(in reply to shauny1987)

Post #: 4

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 4/8/2012 10:38:31 AM

Josh

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
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TOAW is in my book a "must buy", it has a huge scenario database, and it has been on my harddrive more than a decade now. Sometimes it's been a love-hate relation though. I tried many times to love the huge scenarios but they're just not my cup of tea, I prefer the smaller ones. Since WitE has been published it's not so busy here anymore, so AAR's are less frequent. Here's another great site for AAR's, gotta love the Fire in the East AAR's, way too big for me but I love reading them;
http://www.si-games.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=168
Even in the very large scenarios production is not exactly modelled, but you have replacements and reinforcements.

But there are many scenarios that are very professional

What Curtis says, a joy to play and many are not too long which is exactly what I like.

You cannot produce units the way you can do it in games such as Advanced Tactics Gold or Time of Fury, you can not decide to go for an invasion of the UK and forget about Russia, you can not go for lvl three tanks in '40, or go for lvl four strategic bombers and leave your Inf at lvl one. That's not what TOAW is about. But for deep strategic fun on great maps TOAW is the choice.

(in reply to Metalist)

Post #: 5

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 4/8/2012 2:07:03 PM

loveman2

Posts: 365
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This game is a must despite the lack of controlling production, you will love FITE

(in reply to Metalist)

Post #: 6

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 4/8/2012 10:34:43 PM

shunwick

Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline

loveman1,

And then again, he may not like Fire in the East.

One of the great strengths of TOAW is that appeals to a huge variety of players with an equally huge variety of tastes. The beauty of having such a large and diverse body of scenarios available is that there is something for everyone. Some designers focus on historical accuracy while others are more concerned with just providing an interesting and enjoyable experience.

For every FITE fan I can find an equal number who would not touch it with a bargepole. It has nothing to do with the quallity of the scenario, it all comes down to what the individual player likes and dislikes. Tiny, small, medium, large, monster - from the Battle of Marathon to the War in Afghanistan - from The Last Alliance of Elves and Men to Operation Sealiion -TOAW has it all.

Best wishes,
Steve

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to loveman2)

Post #: 7

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/1/2012 8:32:10 PM

jjdenver

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Joined: 11/2/2007
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Is there a place where all of the scenario db's are listed? Where should people go to get scenarios? Thanks

FYI - I saw some scenarios avail for DL from Matrix but only 50 can be listed due to search engine restriction, and a lot of those are upgrades/updates of earlier scenarios as well as equipment databases and boardgame mods of some sort. So in total maybe 25 scenarios are listed.

< Message edited by jjdenver -- 5/1/2012 8:52:39 PM >

(in reply to Metalist)

Post #: 8

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/2/2012 1:21:01 AM

Panama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Is there a place where all of the scenario db's are listed? Where should people go to get scenarios? Thanks

FYI - I saw some scenarios avail for DL from Matrix but only 50 can be listed due to search engine restriction, and a lot of those are upgrades/updates of earlier scenarios as well as equipment databases and boardgame mods of some sort. So in total maybe 25 scenarios are listed.

Here's a good place: http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/browse_scenario.php

_____________________________

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Post #: 9

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/3/2012 12:31:01 PM

fogger

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Hi Metalist,
I have purchased more than 20 wargames in my time. I started playing on the C64 back in 1981. TOAW is by far the best game I have purchased.

The next game will be TOAW 4 and then TOAW 5. FITE is just great. Loveman1 and I have been on one game now for nearly 3 years. Just buy it. You will not be sorry.

Cheers
John

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If you feel like doing some work, sit down and wait....... The feeling does go away.

(in reply to Panama)

Post #: 10

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/19/2012 8:39:57 PM

Gilmer

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Is AI in all of the scenarios included with TOAW 3? If not, which ones do not have AI? Thank you.

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Post #: 11

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/19/2012 9:19:01 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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AI is called PO (Programmed Opponent) in TOAW. Each scenario is different, depending on the designers intentions. You need to check the scenario briefings for the status. Some scenario briefings unfortunately make no mention. Look for something like what is circled in this example :

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Gilmer)

Post #: 12

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/19/2012 9:40:44 PM

Gilmer

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Could you tell me a few that use Programmed Opponent? Does the Normady scenario use Programmed Opponent if used?

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 13

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/19/2012 9:59:06 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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Two Weeks in Normandy, yes- both sides PO enabled, plus pbem capable !!

I can't really tell you 'a few' that are PO'd because there are too many to sift thru. Also, some that are don't reveal it in the briefing, so it is difficult to tell. If you have any questions about specific ones, we can take a specific look to see.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Gilmer)

Post #: 14

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/20/2012 3:57:48 PM

jjdenver

Posts: 2247
Joined: 11/2/2007
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Hey guys, I'm interested in finding some good scenarios to play vs PO without actually playing them for 20 hours only to realize the PO can't hold its own.

I'm not really interested in any total "monster" scenarios like FITE with thousands (I didn't count but seems like thousands) of units on each side. I prefer scenarios more like 1941 - 1945 Great War in the East which is at a scale that reduces the number of units on the east front to something manageable.

Some theaters I'm interested in:

East Front
West Front 44
France 40
Vietnam/Afghanistan

Any suggestions for scenario? And side if I need to pick only 1 side in that scenario.

Thanks!

_____________________________

AARS:
CEAW-BJR Mod 2009:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2101447
AT-WW1:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1705427
AT-GPW:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1649732

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 15

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/20/2012 4:56:03 PM

Oberst_Klink

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Try my 48th Panzer Korps or State Farm 79. You find the links at the Gefechtsstand.

Klink, Oberst

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Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

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Post #: 16

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/20/2012 5:44:33 PM

jjdenver

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Joined: 11/2/2007
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sorry but I went to the site and I can't find the links. Which section are they in? Thanks

_____________________________

AARS:
CEAW-BJR Mod 2009:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2101447
AT-WW1:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1705427
AT-GPW:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1649732

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)

Post #: 17

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/20/2012 6:20:11 PM

jjdenver

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Joined: 11/2/2007
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Also - any other ideas about scenarios that work well vs a PO? Do any of the Vietnam scenarios have a PO that stands up well for the NVA side?

_____________________________

AARS:
CEAW-BJR Mod 2009:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2101447
AT-WW1:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1705427
AT-GPW:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1649732

(in reply to jjdenver)

Post #: 18

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/20/2012 6:43:43 PM

danlongman

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline

IMHO you cannot really call yourself a computer war gamer if you do not have TOAW.
I have spent hours Just Looking at it at it. It has no competitor, nothing can compare to it. The only thing that came close might have been
the Battles of Napoleon game from yarens agone
If you could design and produce your own weapons/technology and manage a government
all you would need is a supply of beer and an understanding girlfriend and your life would be full.
cheers

(in reply to jjdenver)

Post #: 19

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/20/2012 6:51:05 PM

Oberst_Klink

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

sorry but I went to the site and I can't find the links. Which section are they in? Thanks

There you go -

http://gefechtsstand.wordpress.com/2011/07/15/toaw-tutorial-2/

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to jjdenver)

Post #: 20

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/20/2012 7:31:38 PM

Curtis Lemay

Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Hey guys, I'm interested in finding some good scenarios to play vs PO without actually playing them for 20 hours only to realize the PO can't hold its own.

I'm not really interested in any total "monster" scenarios like FITE with thousands (I didn't count but seems like thousands) of units on each side. I prefer scenarios more like 1941 - 1945 Great War in the East which is at a scale that reduces the number of units on the east front to something manageable.

Some theaters I'm interested in:

East Front
West Front 44
France 40
Vietnam/Afghanistan

Any suggestions for scenario? And side if I need to pick only 1 side in that scenario.

Thanks!

Of course, if you're a veteran, no scenario's PO will hold its own (unless it's ridiculusly unbalanced).

But try the Allied side in my "Germany 1945 (Last Stand)". It's not too large and the German PO has a lot of resilience. You probably should review the article on it first, though (see the Articles sticky thread).

(in reply to jjdenver)

Post #: 21

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 5/20/2012 8:57:08 PM

jjdenver

Posts: 2247
Joined: 11/2/2007
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Ah I'm not that good at the game. I don't know the mechanics very well. I'm very experienced with strategy games (board and pc) but haven't studied TOAW enough to understand all of the mechanics at all so I just putter around doing what seems like a good strategy without implementing the tactics very well I'm afraid - it's probably better that way as the PO can give me a better challenge.

_____________________________

AARS:
CEAW-BJR Mod 2009:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2101447
AT-WW1:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1705427
AT-GPW:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1649732

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)

Post #: 22

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 6/5/2012 7:41:35 PM

Metalist

Posts: 28
Joined: 4/6/2012
Status: offline

Hello guys, my school is finally over and i was thinking about getting TOAW soon and 15 mins earlier i saw the sale. I bought the game and it is downloading right now. Thank you so much about your suggestions

, i will pick a scenario and play it as soon as possible

(in reply to jjdenver)

Post #: 23

RE: Thinking About Buying This Game - 7/27/2012 5:54:02 PM

Boggit

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/17/2011
Status: offline

@Metalist

This is a really good game that has stood the test of time. It is a very flexible game in that there are loads of scenarios for it, so replayability is excellent. I've had TOAW from it's earliest releases and will say that Ralph Trickey and TOAD have done an outstanding job of bringing it up to date. Whilst there are a few things I'd like to see done further with it, it remains an excellent buy and a lot of fun.

(in reply to Metalist)

Post #: 24