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Create Barge -> any use? - 4/9/2012 2:01:12 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Good morning, I have a question related to barges;
is creating barges of any use?

I have tried to find anything useful for them to do, but so far, my conclusion is, unless I have lost all my shipping, specifically AKLs, they are useless,

Range is only 3 hexes, which can be augmented by adding a PB to replenish at sea, , but the slow speed of 8kts + frequent stops will make any move, even between close island, really slow. But the main shortcoming is the limit of 25 barges per TF; this means that only really small units/ cargo can be moved

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/9/2012 3:02:05 PM   
treespider


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Joined: 1/30/2005
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Status: offline 		Depending on the mod...I use them on the west coast of Malaya and between the peninsula and Sumatra, prior to the fall of Singapore.



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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/9/2012 5:16:02 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury


Good morning, I have a question related to barges;
is creating barges of any use?

I have tried to find anything useful for them to do, but so far, my conclusion is, unless I have lost all my shipping, specifically AKLs, they are useless,

Range is only 3 hexes, which can be augmented by adding a PB to replenish at sea, , but the slow speed of 8kts + frequent stops will make any move, even between close island, really slow. But the main shortcoming is the limit of 25 barges per TF; this means that only really small units/ cargo can be moved




If you just need an occasional convoy to a small island close to another base, these are very useful as they are completely expendable and you get a ton of them. Dribbles and dabbles, but stuff gets there after a while.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/9/2012 6:03:46 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		yes you are right, if there is a major threat to the communication line; a small AKL might be more effective but it will not survive any kind of attack; with 25 barges, at least some of the barges might get through destination;

But there are few places within the 3 hex fuel limit and I will not expend a PB as mothership; between AKLs and PBs; I think I will risk the former

For any safer areas, even the smallest AKLs is a lot better; and there are plenty of them

I also like the idea of creating barges in places outside the reach of the IJN (west Malaya before fall of Singapore)


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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/9/2012 8:26:32 PM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		Our game is in mid 44 and my opponent has used them all the time. I have sunk a ton of em and they keep popping up. I would say that he has found them to be very useful.

As for the Allies, you just can't get enough of these useful craft. But they have better range than the Japanese barges.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/9/2012 10:23:56 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		In the right situation, they are very useful, until the enemy catches them.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/9/2012 10:40:48 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		I think the trick is to understand that the the 3-hex range is irrelevant: for the first 3 hexes barges will move at 2-hex per turn; then it will run out of fuel and therefore move at 1-hex per turn (which is half its speed so no big deal). This as long as you previously set "Home Port" to the destination.

This means that it is potentially possible to move a barge TF from Tokyo to Ponape, as long as you are willing to accept that it will take more than 50 days to arrive to destination.

This obviously can be considered gamey and at the very least tremendously inneficient

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/9/2012 10:43:28 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I often use barges on one way missions. Once they arrive at their destination, I offload and then disband them.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 12:49:46 PM   
BigBadWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

I think the trick is to understand that the the 3-hex range is irrelevant: for the first 3 hexes barges will move at 2-hex per turn; then it will run out of fuel and therefore move at 1-hex per turn (which is half its speed so no big deal). This as long as you previously set "Home Port" to the destination.

This means that it is potentially possible to move a barge TF from Tokyo to Ponape, as long as you are willing to accept that it will take more than 50 days to arrive to destination.

This obviously can be considered gamey and at the very least tremendously inneficient


Nope. Once they are out of fuel, they will start picking up damage and eventually sink.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 2:48:35 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		I didn't know, thanks!

I guess my dreams of moving the Guards Division by barges from Tokyo to Java are done

but I still will test how long they will survive; maybe not Tokyo to Ponape, but they might survive a one-way trip from Rabaul to Shortlands or Lunga


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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 2:50:51 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 3836
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Status: offline 		They will and get back, but they will have 50+ sys damage on each. They fix quickly and can go again. I have tried to make a fuel TF and a supply TF out of them and then merge them and move them giving them extra fuel to go a little further, but they ran into some of those nasty PT boats before I could find out.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 3:18:37 PM   
BigBadWolf


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Status: offline 		I tried sending a barge convoy once from the coast of Malaya to Port Blair. Not a single one made it :(

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 3:23:11 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		It amazes me how detailed and accurate this game models even some minor aspects of the Pacific war

check
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/barges.html


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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 3:27:16 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf

I tried sending a barge convoy once from the coast of Malaya to Port Blair. Not a single one made it :(


Maybe because of deep vs shallow water?

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 3:29:57 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

It amazes me how detailed and accurate this game models even some minor aspects of the Pacific war

check
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/barges.html



"A barge system capable of delivering three large barge loads per day is sufficient to supply rations for a Japanese triangular division of 18,000 men."

wow!

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 4:02:36 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		Another point I just noticed;

"Barge" TF are limited to 25 ships, but by changing the mission to "Landing Craft" the limit changes to 100 barges; this can can be quite a lot of cargo space for moving troops, plus oilers are allowed in this TF

Edit: this afternoon I will test how far 99 barges+1 Kiso PB can go

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/10/2012 4:46:56 PM >

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 9:02:23 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf

I tried sending a barge convoy once from the coast of Malaya to Port Blair. Not a single one made it :(


Victoria Point to Pt. Blair will work. They arrive with ~50% damage.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/10/2012 9:07:23 PM   
nate25


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Status: offline 		They're useful in Solomons. Very short distances b/t some of those bases.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/12/2012 4:35:19 PM   
RogerJNeilson


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From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline 		I have never seen, as an Allied player, the option to create them, I had assumed they were merely a fiendish oriental device. Maybe the game is picking on me and refusing to let me have them and everyone else has them.... not that I'm getting paranoid or anything, oh no.........

Roger the..... ok that's enough of that joke.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/13/2012 1:30:23 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		Allies got Landing Craft... but I don't think they can just "create" them from supplies (like PT boats or Japanese barges),

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/13/2012 1:33:11 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
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From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Allies got Landing Craft... but I don't think they can just "create" them from supplies (like PT boats or Japanese barges), but only whatever is in the inventory pool.
...I might be wrong

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/13/2012 1:34:23 AM >

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/13/2012 7:58:42 AM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1277
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From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline 		Yes, I use landing craft a lot, but I have found there seems to be some restriction as to where the landing craft can be created..... seems to be very much an American monopoly. Commonwealth forces seem to have not discovered this transport type....

Roger

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/13/2012 8:27:42 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
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Status: offline 		The Allied player can most definitely create barges, just like he can create PTs, from supplies. See this thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2481133&mpage=1&key=create%2Cbarges�

The two relevant nationalities are American and Australian. Of course they also have to be in the pools.

Alfred

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/13/2012 9:20:31 AM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1277
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Status: offline 		Unless its a mod, see Treespider's post above....

I was intrigued by his comment on using them prior to the fall of Singapore.

Roger

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/13/2012 6:02:27 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I was intrigued by his comment on using them prior to the fall of Singapore.

Roger


Playing as Japan, as soon as you capture Victory Point/ Alor Setar and have enough supplies there, you can create barges to cross the Malacca strait; and therefore can start invading Sumatra before Singapore falls


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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/13/2012 8:28:35 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3
Unless its a mod, see Treespider's post above....

I was intrigued by his comment on using them prior to the fall of Singapore.

Roger

In the mods, we do get to play with things. Your typical Daihatsu had squat for specs, but it was configured to carry enough fuel, as cargo, to enable a 300nm movement. Certain mods make this possible by adding endurance (and fuel), while correspondingly reducing cargo capacity. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

There were three significant Japanese barge operations in the first several months of the conflict:

1. Battalion sized elements of the IJA Guards Div conducted coastal barge landing operations, in conjunction with the 3rd Shipping Eng Regt, from Kuala Kongsor to Port Swettenham, and thence to Batu Pahat, as a flanking force. This is the specific imperitive for the Malaysia map changes in Babes. To give that opportunity;

2. In North Borneo, Kawaguchi sent (then) Maj Watanabe with a short battalion element of 35th Brigade eastwards, from Miri to Sandakan, Labaun, etc., while the remainder of the Brigade moved westwards towards Kuching. This was the genesis of kawaguchi's love affair with barges, that led to;

3. The fateful barge movement of substantial portions of 35th Brigade, from Shortlands to Tassafaronga during the first phase of the Guadalcanal campaign.

Other significant barge supported operations were movement of reinforcements and supply from New Georgia to Lae (once the Allies precluded movement by ship), and redeployment of IJA assets along the coast of NG. By 2/43, over 50% of all IJA Shipping Eng assets were deployed to the Solomons/NG front. And don't forget, these guys were IJA, not IJN. Woof !!

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/14/2012 5:38:56 PM   
bush

 

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From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		I thought I read a while back that when barges emptied their cargo they then "helped" unload other TFs. Anybody else see that or can verify?

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/14/2012 6:33:19 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

I was intrigued by his comment on using them prior to the fall of Singapore.

Roger


Playing as Japan, as soon as you capture Victory Point/ Alor Setar and have enough supplies there, you can create barges to cross the Malacca strait; and therefore can start invading Sumatra before Singapore falls


Thanks for this tip. In my first, fumbling try at playing Japan. Still stalled at Singers, but have the rest of the Malaysian west coast up to Moulmein. I had not noticed that button on Victoria Point. Useful.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 4/14/2012 10:02:03 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

They're useful in Solomons. Very short distances b/t some of those bases.


Also in the PI area and on navigable rivers.

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RE: Create Barge -> any use? - 3/23/2013 4:55:53 PM   
bigred


Posts: 3599
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Status: offline 		In search for info I dusted off this tread....from time to time I note a transport TF of liberty ships arrive at some port and an option appears on the TF command screen--"create landing craft"..

most of the time this option is not available. What makes this option available?




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< Message edited by bigred -- 3/23/2013 5:02:38 PM >

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