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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames

 
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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/13/2012 4:37:43 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


nah.. all you need is a second player to sort out your logistics for you

so all your time can be allocated to scheming and plotting


I've tried that solution and it does HELP!

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Post #: 61
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/13/2012 6:04:56 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

But if you made a mega wargame closer to a "Civilization" game in interface, while still keeping the hard-core underhood, and added the power and reach of Steam to find untapped younger gamers, you might have the beginnings of a viable model.


Moose, this is EXACTLY what the next generation mega wargame needs to be! Easy and fun to use, while hard core, accurate data driven is the answer. Keep all of the detail that we love, just make it easier and more fun do do.

I don't care for/about Steam, but I see how that could potentially expand the reach of a game.


Up until about 18 months ago I was a Steam hater. I heard all the stories about early crash bugs, and resource hogging, etc. But I eventually really wanted a game which used Steam for DRM, so I reluctantly loaded the client. It worked seamlessly and was not a hog at all, and I quickly saw how easy it was to impulse buy games which weren't at local brick & mortar anyway. Soon I was checking all the mid-week and Friday specials as part of my routine. By waiting for sales I've gotten games for nearly nothing (COD Modern Warfare for $9; Sims3 with three add-on packs for $35; Tropico 3 with add-on pack for $14.99, GTA IV for $10, etc.) No gas, no drive time, no sales tax. And I don't have to store CD/DVDs anymore, or chase down patches.

Not very many people who still PC-game instead of console who don't know about Steam, or don't have broadband. I'd bet less than 1 in a 1000 have ever heard of Matrix Games. It's not 2005 anymore.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 4/13/2012 6:05:28 PM >

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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/13/2012 9:00:54 PM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Bullwinkle, the only reason I even know about Matrix was from finding GG World At War on sale at Best Buy on a shelf in 2005. If not for that I would have ever known that this company existed.

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Post #: 63
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/13/2012 9:13:26 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Bullwinkle, the only reason I even know about Matrix was from finding GG World At War on sale at Best Buy on a shelf in 2005. If not for that I would have ever known that this company existed.


I can't even remember how I found my way there. My best guess would be a mention in an issue of "Computer Gaming World", the mere mention of which points to me as a fossil.

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Post #: 64
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/13/2012 9:26:30 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I found Matrix while searching for information about the original PacWar and discovered that some guys did a free, updated version of it. They had this game out called Uncommon Valor, and were working on a version to cover the entire Pacific Theater.

Guess the place kind of stuck on me.

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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/13/2012 9:29:59 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I found Matrix by their simple use of the Steel Panthers series as a marketing tool. Pretty clever


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Post #: 66
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/13/2012 9:44:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Back in the '90s, I used to play a free computer PBEM game called "Fighting Flattops," whcih covered the same general theater as Uncommon Valor, though in very simple fashion.  After stopping for a long time, I went back in 2002 to try to find FF.  I did, but discovered that it had converted to pay-to-play.  It wasn't worth it, because the game was very simple and also subject to cheats (as I l had learned to my chagrine against one opponent).

In searching for something that might take it's place, I stumbled across Uncommon Valor.  That was in December 2002.  I soon bought the game and played some matches against folks like Admiral Dadman, John III and Miller.  I gnashed my teeth when John III moved off to WitP, which I thought was too big and labor intensive.  But around 2006 I followed John III like a little pupply.

Thus began my love affair.....

Edited to add: My love affair with WitP/AE (not John III, I hasten to say!).

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/13/2012 9:46:09 PM >

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Post #: 67
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/13/2012 11:33:38 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PizzaMan

Why hasn't anyone converted SPI's Campaign for North Africa to PC? I would think a uber phat game like that would lend itself well to PC.

Campaign for North Africa


A Game in Mediterranean will to have be able to do everything well: Sea, Land, Air.

There isn't any game in history of Wargames that is able to do that. The only close one is WITP and even then it fails at land combat/supply(fuel).

< Message edited by Dili -- 4/13/2012 11:40:50 PM >

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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 1:46:01 AM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		I actually read somewhere that a couple players who were crazy enough to try and play the Campaign for North Africa found that air-strikes/air-power was pretty overpowered in that game.

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Post #: 69
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 2:30:35 AM   
PizzaMan


Posts: 200
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK


quote:

ORIGINAL: PizzaMan

Why hasn't anyone converted SPI's Campaign for North Africa to PC? I would think a uber phat game like that would lend itself well to PC.

Campaign for North Africa


(And I'm serious) USA forces are basically non existant, too much of the (perceived)market are not interested.
But maybe the Europa market might get into it, all those budding Montys,Rommels and Grazianis might make it worthwhile.

But if they did a good game I'd buy 2 copies to make up for them.


Since you are serious, how are WitE sales in the USA compared to Europe? There are even fewer USA forces in WiTE, yet Campaign for North Africa has some USA made vehicles.

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Post #: 70
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 2:37:15 AM   
PizzaMan


Posts: 200
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

ORIGINAL: PizzaMan

Why hasn't anyone converted SPI's Campaign for North Africa to PC? I would think a uber phat game like that would lend itself well to PC.

Campaign for North Africa


A Game in Mediterranean will to have be able to do everything well: Sea, Land, Air.



I have to disagree. The original CNA design was intended to be a complete ground game (and it is!!). Air is an after-thought (as it was in RL for the scope and time frame of the game), and I don't believe that Naval is even factored into the game (It's been a few years since I've looked at the game, I vaguely recall that ports were open or closed during certain dates).

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Post #: 71
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 3:13:19 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I found Matrix while searching for information about the original PacWar and discovered that some guys did a free, updated version of it. They had this game out called Uncommon Valor, and were working on a version to cover the entire Pacific Theater.

Guess the place kind of stuck on me.





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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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Post #: 72
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 3:29:06 AM   
Buckrock

 

Posts: 578
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Status: offline 		I found Matrix when a search for "Japanese sex kitten" took me to some thread on the Kitakami.

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Post #: 73
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 4:09:17 AM   
Skyros


Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		Not sure how I got to matrix but I used to follow pa war on the old GENIE network.

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Post #: 74
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 6:26:03 AM   
LST Express


Posts: 571
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I don't remember how I found Matrix either. I remember taking a look at witp and thinking I want to but I don't know if I can. Seven years later and now envolved in witp-ae, turns out I was right.

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Post #: 75
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 7:39:05 AM   
a7v


Posts: 75
Joined: 3/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline 		If I remember correctly the Matrix guys were hosted on the long gone "Thegamers.net" where they started with the well known mods of WIR and PACWAR. Later a group of modders started to improve the graphics of Steel Panther2, it was called SP2WW2. Still later they started to mod the game itself (Don Godbrand,Andy Gailey, Fred Chlanda and others) for WW2 instead of modern tanks, Scenarios were provided mostly by Wild Bill Wilder and his raiders.
Later the group split, because some members wanted to start modding SP3 while others sticked with SP2. Both groups have been successful, the SP2 ("SPCAMO") guys with SPWW2 and SPMBT, and the others (Matrix) with SPWAW based on SP3. I think around this time "Thegamers.net" went offline and the SP3 modders started to make their own homepage called Matrix games.

The rest is history

Best regards

Rainer

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Post #: 76
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 9:45:05 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I have to disagree. The original CNA design was intended to be a complete ground game (and it is!!). Air is an after-thought (as it was in RL for the scope and time frame of the game), and I don't believe that Naval is even factored into the game (It's been a few years since I've looked at the game, I vaguely recall that ports were open or closed during certain dates).


Then it is not a campaign game despite what name it has, it is just a battle game. You can't play North Africa without Malta, Sicily, Crete, Italian Aegean, Gibraltar, the Convoy war and Naval Battles.
Being good enough in Air, Land and Sea is something no computer wargame have ever achieved.

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Post #: 77
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 12:23:33 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PizzaMan

Why hasn't anyone converted SPI's Campaign for North Africa to PC? I would think a uber phat game like that would lend itself well to PC.

Campaign for North Africa


You should try DAK from The Gamers

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Post #: 78
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 1:22:39 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		Good article

Regarding Rome TW, the fan sites and mods make it effectively a whole new (and much better) game.

After spending what seemed like years playing games like "Russian Front" and "Operation Cobra" in my youth, WITE and WITP:AE have really restored my love of wargaming, and computers have given me the time to play them.

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Post #: 79
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 3:34:01 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Bullwinkle, the only reason I even know about Matrix was from finding GG World At War on sale at Best Buy on a shelf in 2005. If not for that I would have ever known that this company existed.


I can't even remember how I found my way there. My best guess would be a mention in an issue of "Computer Gaming World", the mere mention of which points to me as a fossil.

Oh man...I subscribed for a number of years...loved that magazine. Yes-that PRINT magazine.

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Post #: 80
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 6:23:35 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Oh man...I subscribed for a number of years...loved that magazine. Yes-that PRINT magazine.


I had some copies left from the late 80s when I cleaned house during the divorce. Over 200 pages long, and most of it wasn't ads. A different era to be sure. I used to keep notes on coming ship dates on games six months out; there was no other good place to know that info.

Did you read the mag in the Scorpia era? She was the single biggest reason I ever tried a role playing game, and I still play a few to this day.


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Post #: 81
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 6:40:58 PM   
Blacksheep

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/4/2003
From: Maryland USA
Status: offline 		I second the motion for CNA. I managed to get through five turns of that monster in my pre-pc days, and I look at it as one of my finest gaming achievements. The logistics lend themselve to a computer model not to mention the A2A combat (which took days in itself to resolve). Probably will never see it but I can dream.

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Post #: 82
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 8:28:06 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		I have some Perfidious Albions in the garage

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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 8:28:57 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
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From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blacksheep

I second the motion for CNA. I managed to get through five turns of that monster in my pre-pc days, and I look at it as one of my finest gaming achievements. The logistics lend themselve to a computer model not to mention the A2A combat (which took days in itself to resolve). Probably will never see it but I can dream.


+3

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Post #: 84
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 9:42:38 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

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From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
Note: that was not an official statement, just a deduction based on available data.

I've got the horrible feeling that your deduction may be correct.

That might be true, but there’s still some interesting possibilities that the monster games offer, outside the conventional. Granted that GC style play very often devolves, due to the inherent flexibilities built into these games, leading to endless variations on the first year, but not a lot beyond that.

However, the monster games, like WiTP-AE, have a wealth of internal (coding) and external (editor) possibilities that obtain in the mid and late war periods. Little of this is noticed because of the tendency to build, flex, and kill during the first campaign year. Many AARs die a natural death in 1943, just when things could get interesting. So, although set up that way, maybe GCs aren’t the touchstone.

To really utilize the power and flexibility of the engine and the database of these monsters, it might make more sense to think of them as tools and build smaller, more specific, scenarios or Fleet problems, that span the time frame of the game engine. Most of my current involvement with this title is in writing, umpiring and playing small op-problem scenarios using the editor/engine smorgasbord. This kind of play is taking off with many groups in the US and Internationally. Would really like to see some small scenario AARs. They are short, playable, and a serious learning experience, both with the game and with an opponent. And if people play them, more will be done.

Matrix people understood this: never talked to the Slitherine people, don’t know as I would want to. But some of the gaming development community has had an opportunity to chat with some of the professional/grognard users, and gets it.

We will just have to wait and see. But I am somewhat hopeful.



And..to Termie Doom & Gloom, Light (tm) shines on DaBigBabes.



Sardaukar -

I emphatically agree. My view, is that DBB is really just starting to spool up to speed....

Mac

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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/14/2012 10:07:51 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Re: Campaign for North Africa:

PizzaMan -

For some reason, I bought two copies of this game, but never had the time to play it. Also have SPI's War in the Pacific, War in Europe and the original War in the East. From 1971 until the advent of my first computer in 1989, I would come home on leave once a year or so and buy 100 dollars (or more) worth of SPI brand games. Also Squad Leader, ASL and so on. One of the advantages of being older is that I have all of the published modules for ASL. Back in 1977, I still recall reading the rules for SL during my lunch break - in preparation for game play on the weekend. Gosh - that seems so long ago...

Computer Campaign for North Africa would be awesome...

Mac


< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 4/14/2012 10:08:10 PM >

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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/15/2012 12:46:07 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		I forgot to add that the Mediterranean was also where special forces had more impact in whole II World War.

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RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/15/2012 2:16:01 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan

Re: Campaign for North Africa:

PizzaMan -

For some reason, I bought two copies of this game, but never had the time to play it. Also have SPI's War in the Pacific, War in Europe and the original War in the East. From 1971 until the advent of my first computer in 1989, I would come home on leave once a year or so and buy 100 dollars (or more) worth of SPI brand games. Also Squad Leader, ASL and so on. One of the advantages of being older is that I have all of the published modules for ASL. Back in 1977, I still recall reading the rules for SL during my lunch break - in preparation for game play on the weekend. Gosh - that seems so long ago...

Computer Campaign for North Africa would be awesome...

Mac




I unfortunately decided to part with a fair number of my collection...sold them on e-bay to finance a musical instrument for my son...and club soccer for my other son. My priorities at 25 were a bit different than they are at 43...I imagine in a few years I wish I had those old games back.

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Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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Post #: 88
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/15/2012 6:30:38 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		So don't you expect computer wargames to improve?

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Post #: 89
RE: The Immense Pleasure of Huge Wargames - 4/15/2012 6:41:24 AM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Personaly I think they have. I remember playing "gems" like this



Dont get me wrong, it was awesome back then but If you had given me War in the Pacific back then(via time travel of course) while I was playing this I would have married you and you would have gone to jail for marrying an underage.

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Post #: 90
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