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Use of SC, DMS, PG?

 
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Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/13/2012 7:15:29 PM   
wga8888


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/29/2010
From: Sachse, Texas USA
Status: offline 		This is my question from Uncommon Valor which will be my springboard into WITP-AE; I assume the same units exist. How are SC, DMS, PG effectively used? as part of a tranport TF or as there own?

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RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/13/2012 7:37:23 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		These small escort types are best used as ASW escorts or in use for ASW TF's. Big change from UV is an ASW TF is limited to four ships now.

The other big difference to keep in mind is surface combat in AE is more decisive than in UV where 'on average' TF's would trade a few shots at night then quickly disengage.....even if one of the TF's was a full on battleforce and the other TF a slow laden transport TF with a couple of escorts. The good of this is that players have to be very mindful now of where they send troop and supply convoys if they think enemy warships are lurking. The bad is that even a small sized 'intruder' force of several DD's and a light cruiser will on average eat an escort of SC/PC type craft for breakfest then go on to Lunch by wacking the merchant ships.



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RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/13/2012 8:45:26 PM   
Mundy


Posts: 2869
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Neenah
Status: offline 		If they have short legs, they're good for keeping the pests away from your major ports. I keep my YPs busy.

If better range, they're great for convoy escort. Even a minimalist ASW escort can make a big difference in thwarting sub attacks.

Ed-

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RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/14/2012 12:35:14 AM   
Rkuzava_slith

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		Is there a thread buried somewhere that discusses the best roles for the small support ships?

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Post #: 4
RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/14/2012 12:57:21 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

These small escort types are best used as ASW escorts or in use for ASW TF's. Big change from UV is an ASW TF is limited to four ships now.

The other big difference to keep in mind is surface combat in AE is more decisive than in UV where 'on average' TF's would trade a few shots at night then quickly disengage.....even if one of the TF's was a full on battleforce and the other TF a slow laden transport TF with a couple of escorts. The good of this is that players have to be very mindful now of where they send troop and supply convoys if they think enemy warships are lurking. The bad is that even a small sized 'intruder' force of several DD's and a light cruiser will on average eat an escort of SC/PC type craft for breakfest then go on to Lunch by wacking the merchant ships.





Depends ...in my current match with Mundy my escorts did a fair job fending off some American/Dutch/British interlopers early on around Manado... I'll try and dig up the AAR.

EDIT:

I always lose the Mizuho...


Night Time Surface Combat, near Manado at 76,99, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CS Mizuho, Shell hits 33, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS W-7, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
DMS W-8, Shell hits 3, on fire
AMc Ataka Maru
AMc Kyo Maru #1, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
AMc Takasago Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire
PB Edo Maru
PB Myoken Maru
PB Gamitsu Maru #1, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
PB Nichi Maru #1, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
xAK Myoko Maru
xAK Shinryu Maru
xAK Kanko Maru
xAK Meigen Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Yamafuku Maru
xAKL Kakyu Maru, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Haruna Maru

Allied Ships
CL Java
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp, Shell hits 1
CL Marblehead
CL Boise, Shell hits 1
DD Barker
DD Bulmer
DD Stewart, Shell hits 1
DD Paul Jones

Japanese ground losses:
160 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 10 (4 destroyed, 6 disabled)



Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms with 28% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 28% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Massive explosion on PB Nichi Maru #1
PB Nichi Maru #1 sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages PB Gamitsu Maru #1 at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages PB Myoken Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Java engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages DMS W-8 at 2,000 yards
DD Stewart engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Java engages AMc Takasago Maru at 2,000 yards
AMc Kyo Maru #1 sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAKL Kakyu Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Java engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Tromp engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Java engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages DMS W-7 at 2,000 yards
DD Stewart engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
DD Barker engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Tromp engages PB Myoken Maru at 2,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Java engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
DD Paul Jones engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
DD Stewart engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
CL Java engages AMc Ataka Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead engages xAP Haruna Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Stewart engages xAK Yamafuku Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
PB Gamitsu Maru #1 sunk by CL Java at 2,000 yards
CL Tromp engages PB Myoken Maru at 2,000 yards
CL De Ruyter engages DMS W-8 at 2,000 yards
DMS W-7 sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
DD Stewart engages AMc Takasago Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Bulmer engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
DD Barker engages CS Mizuho at 2,000 yards
DD Stewart engages xAK Meigen Maru at 2,000 yards
DD Barker engages xAKL Kakyu Maru at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
CS Mizuho sunk by CL Boise at 4,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...


< Message edited by treespider -- 4/14/2012 1:07:16 AM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/14/2012 4:14:23 AM   
Mundy


Posts: 2869
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Neenah
Status: offline 		Part two of that night. I love my Omaha CLs.

Despite pretty much not following through on the transports, I was feeling pretty good after the first round...

Night Time Surface Combat, near Manado at 75,99, Range 2,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Nagara, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Yukikaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Yamakaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze

Allied Ships
CL Java
CL De Ruyter
CL Tromp
CL Marblehead, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CL Boise
DD Barker, Shell hits 2
DD Bulmer
DD Stewart
DD Paul Jones

Low visibility due to Thunderstorms with 28% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 28% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
Japanese open fire on surprised Allied ships at 2,000 yards
CL Nagara launches Long Lance Torpedoes at CL Marblehead at 2,000 yards
CL Marblehead sunk by DD Suzukaze at 2,000 yards
CL Nagara launches Long Lance Torpedoes at CL De Ruyter at 2,000 yards
DD Tokitsukaze launches Long Lance Torpedoes at DD Barker at 2,000 yards
CL Nagara engages CL De Ruyter at 2,000 yards
CL Nagara engages CL Tromp at 2,000 yards
DD Barker engages DD Umikaze at 2,000 yards
CL Nagara engages CL Java at 2,000 yards
DD Barker engages DD Yamakaze at 2,000 yards
DD Tokitsukaze engages DD Barker at 2,000 yards
DD Yukikaze engages DD Bulmer at 2,000 yards
Task forces break off...

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RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/14/2012 5:31:30 PM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		The USA SCs with the 1500 endurance can slow down a transport TF with constant refueling, but the ASW/Escort assets are so scarce at the beginning of the war that I will use anything to keep the IJN subs at a distance.

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RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/14/2012 5:36:28 PM   
Mundy


Posts: 2869
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Neenah
Status: offline 		Yep. I've had to keep transports swinging at anchor and LCUs on the dock for a long time, just because escorts haven't come home yet.

USS Charleston is overworked.

With fast ships like Queen Elizabeth, you can get away without using escorts as long as the destination is relatively safe.

Ed-

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RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/14/2012 5:37:26 PM   
rms1pa

 

Posts: 370
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		love the Taney and Charleston and the Bird class AMs.

rms/pa

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RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/14/2012 11:04:55 PM   
USS Henrico

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/2/2009
From: Charlottesville, VA
Status: offline 		The smaller size escorts are quite useful for those small cargo/transport TFs to small ports where having a small enough TF size is critical to being able to dock. It helps to maximize the number of ships that can carry cargo: a DD is too large for a TF headed to a 6k size port.


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Post #: 10
RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/15/2012 12:14:54 PM   
bush

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: san jose, ca
Status: offline 		Because of the size constraints of most ports, I use AMPH settings for all my transportation. Yes, it is less efficient in terms of capacity, but I never get clogged at a port.

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RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/15/2012 6:34:17 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		For both sides any cargo ships with any sort of escort has a much greater chance of surviving a sub attack. So there best use is exactly what the name implies "escort". For the Allies, they all get improved DCs, mousetraps, radar, hedgehogs as time goes by and even DMs, APDs, AMs and MLs can attack and sink Japanese subs. The Allied player will need them all at the beginning but will rely on them less later on. The Japanese player will never have enough. You can use them all in ASW TF and they all will work and on occasion have success. However, my experience is that the best ASW TFs consists of the ships with higher quality crews. 80% of all my sub kills have the work of DD or DE type ships. But in 1942, the flood of SCs that start to arrive proved to be a life saver. Nothing more satisfying that to watch one of your little SCs work over an enemy sub...

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Post #: 12
RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/15/2012 6:40:14 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		One of my favorite stories...

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/bird-class-minesweepers/moa-and-kiwi-bag-a-sub

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Post #: 13
RE: Use of SC, DMS, PG? - 4/15/2012 7:28:26 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		Richard Franks describes Kiwi vs. I-1 in "Guadalcanal" - it was an epic battle!

story goes, that after I-1 surfaced, Kiwi's captain (Gordon Bridson) ordered a ramming attack. his Chief Engineer objected (I-1 displaced 2100t surfaced, Kiwi only 600t), but the captain shut him down, saying, "There's a weekend's leave in Auckland ahead of us." Crunch.

Kiwi backed off, the captain says, "Hit her again, it'll be a week's leave." Crunch. At some point, I-1's navigator dropped back down into the boat, calling for swords.

And a third time, "Once more for a fortnight!" Crunch. Then Kiwi backed off to allow Moa to attack w/ guns, and Kiwi's crew disarmed and captured the appropriately-armed navigator, who had boarded over her bow.

badly damaged, I-1 was beached & abandoned on the north shore of Guadalcanal near Kamimbo Bay.

Other sources mention a small intelligence bonanza (tech manuals & code info) recovered from the beached I-1.

Kiwi had to return to NZ for repair, i hope they got their leave! Lt. Commander Bridson was awarded the RNZN DSO & the USN Navy Cross.

< Message edited by jmalter -- 4/15/2012 7:32:35 PM >

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