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Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 3:43:05 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		I have an ongoing game with Mundy...and from casual observation my units appear not to be deriving any benefit from being placed into Rest Mode. Before I submit a request to Michael to take a look, I wanted to hear what others are experiencing with Rest Mode.

Comments...

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 3:49:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I've noticed the same thing in my game. For instance, I had a unit of the Burma Army that was badly disrupted - no abled squads left - so I retired it to an adjacent hex with plenty of supply and no enemy units present.  I set it to rest.  A week later, only two squads are ready for action. 

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 4:04:27 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		A while back this question was brought up, and I want to say that for a unit to maximize the rest benefit it had to be at 100% prep (what ever its called) for its location. I remember trying that and I found that in many cases if the unit was at rest and at its base it repaired/rearmed/upgraded pretty quickly.

If I could remember the correct nomenclature I am sure this would make more sense

< Message edited by oldman45 -- 4/23/2012 4:05:04 PM >

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 4:17:39 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I've also been noticing that units set to rest never seem to recover disabled squads unless I move them into a base. Chinese units in the country side never recover a single squad.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 4:23:38 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		I haven't tested it explicitly but when I've used it I haven't noticed any help from it.

I hope it's not true that 100% prep for the current location is needed, that just wouldn't make sense for rest mode.

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Post #: 5
RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 4:32:50 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

A while back this question was brought up, and I want to say that for a unit to maximize the rest benefit it had to be at 100% prep (what ever its called) for its location. If I could remember the correct nomenclature I am sure this would make more sense



This would still be really silly. Do you prepare for three months to take a nap when you're exhausted? Or do you just climb into the nearest soft spot and lie down? As long as there is some peace and quiet and food and laundry service and lack of War..., troops can (and did) recover almost anywhere.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 4:33:45 PM   
Mundy


Posts: 2869
Joined: 6/26/2002
From: Neenah
Status: offline 		The Burma Division you beat up has been resting, but I haven't been able to track much recovery.

Ed-

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 4:44:54 PM   
Arnhem44


Posts: 578
Joined: 11/23/2004
From: Singapore
Status: offline 		It looks to be working in the 2 games I have running, multiple Chinese LCUs in one game have recovered all their disabled squads while in another I have US and Dutch units that have been prepping for various targets while in various states of deployment (rest and combat) and they've recovered their disabled squads

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 5:08:08 PM   
bk19@mweb.co.za

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 7/26/2011
Status: offline 		I support this observation as well.... It is my understanding that not only do units recover more quickly, especially when in a well supplied base, they should also increase their experience levels when they have reached 100 prep points.

In particular, I have been watching a large number of units prepping for Bataan while resting in the base next door and I have not noticed a single unit gain experience (even those with less than 50 exp) over a two month interval. Equally, I cannot say that an increased recovery rate is evident.



< Message edited by bk19@mweb.co.za -- 4/23/2012 5:11:02 PM >

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 5:20:20 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		No it seems to be working for me. However it varies quite a bit depending on leadership and experience of the unit. Chinese units recover but take forever. Elite units seem to recover much faster. This makes sense to me. I would expect a shattered Burmese unit in 1942 to just pack up and go home. The were not too excited about their colonial masters anyways...

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 5:57:22 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Well, darn it.  Are you suggesting, Mr. Sutton, that I am not within my rights to grumble and whine about how the game is treating and abusing me unfairly?

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Post #: 11
RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 5:57:45 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		A couple of comments.

- I remember MichaelM stating that rest mode does not affect experience at all.

- Troops do gain experience after reaching 100% prep no matter where they are.

- Even in combat mode troops in a well supplied base/city recover faster than in a lesser supplied base/city and faster than in the countryside.

I guess that seeing these responses I am becoming skeptical that rest mode is working as intended.


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Post #: 12
RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 7:02:39 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Thanks for the responses...

From my observations I've seen no appreciable difference between the modes as far as AV recovery goes...I've had units sitting in bases with 30,000+ supply not gain any AV back while in Rest mode.


Looked at Tracker and I've had units in Reserve in enemy hexes sometimes gain 20 points a day whereas units at Rest in well supplied bases away from an enemy sometimes gain 0 sometimes 3 or 4.

I'll post something in the Tech Support forum.


< Message edited by treespider -- 4/23/2012 7:28:30 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 7:47:47 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Units i have at bases in Rest mode seem to be recovering fast. Those out in the field.....not so fast but I believe this WAD. Will keep an eye on it, pending a response from the Tech forum.



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Post #: 14
RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 9:39:58 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Land Unit Leaders
LCU leaders should be selected based on how the LCU is being employed.

HQ Units
Assign HQ Unit Leaders using the criteria for HQ units. As considerations beyond the HQ unit’s function, use the following in order of priorities:
• Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
• Leadership – Influences experience gain.
• Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
• Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Front Line Units (high probability of combat)
Assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
• Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
• Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
• Leadership – Influences experience gain.
• Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Rear Area Units Training or Rear Area Functional Units
Units can use training to gain experience up to an allowable maximum based on the unit nationality. If unit is in the rear area in order to train, assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
• Leadership – Influences experience gain.
• Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
• Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
• Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Rear Area Units Refitting
Units can be moved to a rear area to reconstitute (ideally out of a malaria or cold zone or in a base large enough to negate the effects). If the units are in the rear area to restore disabled elements, reduce fatigue, and replace lost elements, assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
• Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
• Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
• Leadership – Influences experience gain (this is unimportant if the unit has already reached the maximum training experience).
• Of small import, Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
• No other skills or qualities have any influence


< Message edited by ny59giants -- 4/23/2012 9:41:39 PM >

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/23/2012 11:18:37 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		i've noticed that in the malaria zone, units quickly reach & stay at a fatigue of ~27%, but some cities are good for recovery.

for example, my troopers in Pegu don't take their atabrine, but move them to Rangoon & they reduce fatigue to ~2% in a day or 3.

rest mode works, but you've got to have adequate supply in the hex. troops in the field are drawing some supply, but if they move to a base-hex, you can bump up the base's supply-draw & improve LCU recovery if you can bring the supply-points overland or by convoy.

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Post #: 16
RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 2:53:44 AM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 921
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

Thanks for the responses...

From my observations I've seen no appreciable difference between the modes as far as AV recovery goes...I've had units sitting in bases with 30,000+ supply not gain any AV back while in Rest mode.


Looked at Tracker and I've had units in Reserve in enemy hexes sometimes gain 20 points a day whereas units at Rest in well supplied bases away from an enemy sometimes gain 0 sometimes 3 or 4.

I'll post something in the Tech Support forum.




Gonna have to give this a whirl. I am tired of camping outside of a base for weeks. I can check Tracker also to see if it makes a difference.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 2:58:35 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

I have an ongoing game with Mundy...and from casual observation my units appear not to be deriving any benefit from being placed into Rest Mode. Before I submit a request to Michael to take a look, I wanted to hear what others are experiencing with Rest Mode.

Comments...


Rest mode seems to be working fine for me.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 3:18:13 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I think before we are able to say if Rest mode is working or not, we need to establish what Rest mode is actually supposed to do. Is it supposed to help recover fatigue, disruption, morale, disabled devices/squads, increase experience, increase preparation for a target, or some combination of these? I've never seen it stated clearly.

The one thing I do know Rest mode does is to allow a TOE to upgrade when within command range of a command HQ and with Replacements On. I know this does work.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 3:19:54 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

I have an ongoing game with Mundy...and from casual observation my units appear not to be deriving any benefit from being placed into Rest Mode. Before I submit a request to Michael to take a look, I wanted to hear what others are experiencing with Rest Mode.

Comments...


Rest mode seems to be working fine for me.



"Seems" is the operative word.

Here is a screen shot of the Tracker data for the IJA 34th Division who was attacked at Ichang. Note that while in Reserve with enemy units in the hex the unit recovered 5 to 8 points of AV per day ...whereas when at rest the unit sometimes went 3 days with no change in AV and on others gained 3 or 4... and when moving still gained 1-2 points per day.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by treespider -- 4/24/2012 3:21:04 AM >

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 3:24:27 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I think before we are able to say if Rest mode is working or not, we need to establish what Rest mode is actually supposed to do. Is it supposed to help recover fatigue, disruption, morale, disabled devices/squads, increase experience, increase preparation for a target, or some combination of these? I've never seen it stated clearly.

The one thing I do know Rest mode does is to allow a TOE to upgrade when within command range of a command HQ and with Replacements On. I know this does work.

+1

The only that I know for sure is that it is for this (TOE upgrade). I think the name maybe a poor choice. I don't use it for anything else. It definitely does not help units recover fatigue or anything faster than in combat mode. I don't know that it is supposed to though. Maybe John can comment on what effects other than TOE upgrade this is supposed to have.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 3:27:06 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
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From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I think before we are able to say if Rest mode is working or not, we need to establish what Rest mode is actually supposed to do. Is it supposed to help recover fatigue, disruption, morale, disabled devices/squads, increase experience, increase preparation for a target, or some combination of these? I've never seen it stated clearly.

The one thing I do know Rest mode does is to allow a TOE to upgrade when within command range of a command HQ and with Replacements On. I know this does work.

+1

The only that I know for sure is that it is for this (TOE upgrade). I think the name maybe a poor choice. I don't use it for anything else. It definitely does not help units recover fatigue or anything faster than in combat mode. I don't know that it is supposed to though. Maybe John can comment on what effects other than TOE upgrade this is supposed to have.



Well from the design intent it was supposed to help units recover quicker than the other modes.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 3:40:37 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I think before we are able to say if Rest mode is working or not, we need to establish what Rest mode is actually supposed to do. Is it supposed to help recover fatigue, disruption, morale, disabled devices/squads, increase experience, increase preparation for a target, or some combination of these? I've never seen it stated clearly.

The one thing I do know Rest mode does is to allow a TOE to upgrade when within command range of a command HQ and with Replacements On. I know this does work.

+1

The only that I know for sure is that it is for this (TOE upgrade). Maybe John can comment on what effects other than TOE upgrade this is supposed to have.



Well from the design intent it was supposed to help units recover quicker than the other modes.


Do we know that? The name suggests it, but I don't have access to the design doc ... that's why I phrased my response as I did.



< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 4/24/2012 1:35:54 PM >

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 3:42:24 AM   
Ingrid37

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/4/2012
Status: offline 		I've noticed the same thing in my game.

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Post #: 24
RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 3:44:43 AM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I think before we are able to say if Rest mode is working or not, we need to establish what Rest mode is actually supposed to do. Is it supposed to help recover fatigue, disruption, morale, disabled devices/squads, increase experience, increase preparation for a target, or some combination of these? I've never seen it stated clearly.

The one thing I do know Rest mode does is to allow a TOE to upgrade when within command range of a command HQ and with Replacements On. I know this does work.

+1

The only that I know for sure is that it is for this (TOE upgrade). I think the name maybe a poor choice. I don't use it for anything else. It definitely does not help units recover fatigue or anything faster than in combat mode. I don't know that it is supposed to though. Maybe John can comment on what effects other than TOE upgrade this is supposed to have.



Well from the design intent it was supposed to help units recover quicker than the other modes.


Exactly my point..... recover what? Morale, disruption, fatigue, devices, all of the above?

I know from some old WitP posts and experience that the biggest factor for increasing the recovery of disabled devices is being at a base with lots of supply and a command HQ in range with a leader having a high Admin rating. I don't think I've ever read a definitive reference where Rest mode directly impacts this, however, that doesn't mean I'm not talking out of my ass.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 3:50:13 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I don't think I've ever read a definitive reference where Rest mode directly impacts this,

+1

Nor I. I reviewed comments that Michael has made and other than TOE, I got nothing, nada, nathan on it.

PS: I don't hear your arse talking. Or if so, mine is too loud.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 4/24/2012 3:53:16 AM >

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 4:09:58 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Alright then ...went back and checked ....much ado about nothing...move on.

Edit: Rest should see higher fatigue and disruption recovery...not necessarily device recovery.

< Message edited by treespider -- 4/24/2012 4:11:13 AM >

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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 6:15:46 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
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From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Here is a screen shot of the Tracker data for the IJA 34th Division who was attacked at Ichang. Note that while in Reserve with enemy units in the hex the unit recovered 5 to 8 points of AV per day ...whereas when at rest the unit sometimes went 3 days with no change in AV and on others gained 3 or 4... and when moving still gained 1-2 points per day.






Ok it seems this has already been settled.


Just for details, how I interprete it and why I think it WAD:

If you look at the morale column, you notice a steep increase of morale after the op mode
was changed to rest.

This is exactly what it does. Rest mode influences recovery of disruption, fatigue, and because of that, morale.

If disruption reaches values close to 0, then fatigue is affected most, if fatigue gets close to 0, morale increases dramatically.
When morale is also high already, the effect of rest mode starts to flatten off.


You were right though: It does help in repairing disabled units.

But only because better device repair is a secondary effect of high morale and low fatigue, as these stats influence success dice rolls on repair.
But you would only notice this effect when comparing different units with huge deltas in morale/fat values and a high ammount of disableds, but
else have similar stats (leader, exp,...).

I would be willing to bet that if you compare 2 units at a small base hex, 99dis/99fat/10mor, both same leaders, 50exp, 50% disableds and then set 1
unit to rest and the other to combat, you will notice a difference in which unit repairs devices faster, although not a high difference.

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 6:33:06 AM   
SierraJuliet


Posts: 2319
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		I'm not sure where in the rule book this comes from as it is from my notes.

Disabled elements may be healed/repaired and listed again normally. This requires, Supply, Support troops and Low fatigue level. My bolding.

Your morale does improve very nicely when at rest. That has to be a plus.

< Message edited by SierraJuliet -- 4/24/2012 6:35:21 AM >

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RE: Rest Mode - Is it working? - 4/24/2012 11:09:17 AM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
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From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		Do units in rest use less supply?
Do Support units like HQ BF etc still do their job in rest?

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Post #: 30
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