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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 9:39:46 AM   
doomtrader


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Status: offline 		IIRC such idea was implemented in Slitherine's Legion, am I right?

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 11:43:02 AM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		Doomtrader, similar I believe. Sort of the same concept with regards to watching the battle unfold etc, however it's this concept of formation\shapes that has me intrigued. Feed the combat stats (i.e weapon type,armour type,training,race,commander stats) into a shape taking the greater the surface area the stronger or more effective the power of the unit will be on that side. So a rectangle will be strong at front but very weak at the sides. As you manipulate the shape I envisage the stats changing as the shape changes. Also certain shapes will be great a certain things, i.e a wedge shape can split a unit formation into therefore making that to weak shapes. When you look at a pmap of ancient warfare it's all drawn in shapes, well I will have those animated, the size of the unti shape will decrease as it takes casualties, or say will form a circle if it looks like it's surrounded so it's "combat power" is spread all around, it will stay like that waiting to be rescued if it is surrounded, or maybe it has a superb commander who will expand the circle and eventually break out.

I'd design a shape for all known formations from warfare from ancient times to middle ages. Then the player will also have a possibiltiy to create new formation unit shapes and train his troops in them. Also certain shapes next to each other will complement. For expample your typical rectangle formation will benifit from having it's flanks protected, so for instance you could have three rectangle formations in the front row and on either end have a square formation protecting it's flanks (obviously the square has decent all round protection but not as hard hitting from the front as a rectangle. Training will be a percentage, so say you've trained your troops to 80% in a particular formation than all sides will equal 80% power of the weapons, though you will have race stats and certain weapons will have bonus for certain formations then you have the commander stats adding to it aswell, so in effect you could go over 100% effective power. This seems like it would work for fantasy and ancient warfare because it's mainly melee. Then you have to work out something for range weapons which will be less about formation and more about commander and training.

Something dynamic that could happen is if you commander has great initiative and the formation has the relevant training, he may as he moves into melee range but comes under fire from arrows change his formation into the Roman turtle to protect his men from arrows, then fan back out to his previous formation when he gets towards melee range. A poor commander may not do this though.

I imagine the battle animation to flow and look dynamic.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/30/2012 11:55:51 AM >

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 12:16:59 PM   
invernomuto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
No. Personally, I do not want any fantasy games; I want wargames; and specifcally MWIF PLEASE


+1.
And I want wargames designed for PC, not conversion from paper wargames from 1970.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 12:24:36 PM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		invernomuto, I'm not asking what people want, I'm talking about a game idea I have. Thanks for your opinion though.

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 2:21:20 PM   
invernomuto


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From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline 		Sorry wodin, I did not want to hijack your thread.

While on MG forums I think the majority wants the devs to focus on historical wargames, I do think that there is a market for a fantasy wargame like the one you described.
For example, Dominions 3 is a good game with a small but dedicated community.

Bye

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Post #: 35
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 4:12:58 PM   
Xerkis


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Status: offline 		Over here because you asked me to check it out.


I didn’t read every word – there are a lot of them to read – but I think I have the basic idea.

Sounds deep, and cool. But actually – I for one would rather control each and every move turn by turn, then to sort of “preset” the moves and push go and watch it unfold that you have here.

I would definitely be in that “niche” that Iain had mentioned. I think he’s 100% correct in what he’s saying and he knows what he’s talking about. Above anyone else, you might want to take his words a bit more to heart. That isn’t to discourage your project at all – just to prepare you for what is ahead of you.

With Sovereignty now being announced and with all else that I have on my plate right now, I do wish you well with this but it isn’t something I can get involved in at this point in time. I know Sovereignty may not be exactly what your game is but. . . . . . I think I’ll wait for it. Your game does sound awesome though. I truly mean that and if it would turn out like you envision it, I would look in to it (other than the automation of the battle part). Because you know; if the battle wasn’t as automated, it would be less programming there.

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Post #: 36
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 5:20:24 PM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		The thing with automation is that the game will depend on how good your grand strategy is rather than how good you are at turn based or rts games. Which for me defeats the object of having commanders and training etc etc.

You will set formations at the start of the battle, train formations\train discipline, hire commanders, research tactics, research weapons, steal pre battle intel, give overall orders, and have three chances to send out orders if you want to during combat, however there will be a delay as it will be sent by carrier pigeon or a runner.

Your input into the coming battle will be extensive and depending on how good your strategy has been upto then and which commanders you've given which units will all be a major influence upon the battle.

SO though the battle is automated like I said all your choices and decisions leading upto the battle will come across on how well your armies fight.Also you do give overall orders to the General and also if you want SOP's to the individual formation commanders.

As I said turn based and RTS combat means the game boils down to how good you are at that sort of game and not what your grand strategy has been uptill then, thus in away defeating the object.

I have all the time in the world to get this going and envisage most likely five years or more before I have something done. I'm not expecting it to make me lots of money thats not the motivation, the motivation is to create a game I'd love to play. I do have a snaeky feeling though if it comes together the ay I see it people will want to buy and again if it turns out like how I wnat it to I see no reason for it to be as popukar as Dom3 or even a more mainsteam fantasy game.

I've had about three game ideas that I'd love to see. This one feels like it could be done where as the others require 3D engines etc etc and are more based of other games (I.e Darkwind combat converted to WW1 bi planes with RPH elements as a squadron commander throughout WW1 and also a Sims WW1 game called the trench or The Company).

I'm that certain I have something relatively unique yet seems to make sense and seems to be doable and play well that I actually want to try it out.

The hardest part I think will be balancing and the tac ai.

Even if the Grand Strategy side doesn't come off I think there could well be legs in the combat mechanic alone. SO have a more basic grand strategy like Conquest of Elysium 3 but tag it to the combat engine.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/30/2012 5:22:28 PM >

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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 4/30/2012 5:24:50 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: invernomuto

Sorry wodin, I did not want to hijack your thread.

While on MG forums I think the majority wants the devs to focus on historical wargames, I do think that there is a market for a fantasy wargame like the one you described.
For example, Dominions 3 is a good game with a small but dedicated community.

Bye



No worries mate, sorry if I sounded alittle off hand.

Dom 3 is a influence here. However the combat engine will be more in depth.

If the game ended up as well liked as Dom 3 I'd be over the moon.

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Post #: 38
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/12/2012 11:20:32 PM   
Perturabo


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Status: offline 		I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.

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Post #: 39
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/12/2012 11:21:46 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		That's nice....

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Post #: 40
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/13/2012 9:41:57 AM   
martok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.

This is one of those times when the internet makes it difficult to tell if you're saying that with a straight face or tongue-in-cheek...




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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/13/2012 3:00:04 PM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.


I like the sound of that. Joke or no joke.

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Post #: 42
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/13/2012 4:23:04 PM   
Lieste

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: martok


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.

This is one of those times when the internet makes it difficult to tell if you're saying that with a straight face or tongue-in-cheek...





He means it.

19th Century vibe with Orks, but with reasonable weapon types/ranges/tactics, rather than totally bodged Warhammer 40K style ground/move/time/weapon scales.

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Post #: 43
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/13/2012 4:55:04 PM   
doomtrader


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Status: offline 		And what about the mythical setting where Greeks actually managed to create steam machines? (I have read couple of times they were pretty close to that, like 50-100 years).


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RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/13/2012 5:03:12 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

And what about the mythical setting where Greeks actually managed to create steam machines? (I have read couple of times they were pretty close to that, like 50-100 years).

Warspite1

I can only repeat Martok's comment from earlier.....

This is one of those times when the internet makes it difficult to tell if you're saying that with a straight face or tongue-in-cheek...



< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/13/2012 5:12:42 PM >

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Post #: 45
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 1:52:44 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

And what about the mythical setting where Greeks actually managed to create steam machines? (I have read couple of times they were pretty close to that, like 50-100 years).


I think they'd need machine tools to make any sensible use of it and machine tools were invented in the late Medieval and the Enlightenment period.

quote:

ORIGINAL: martok

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.

This is one of those times when the internet makes it difficult to tell if you're saying that with a straight face or tongue-in-cheek...

Low magic fantasy like Tolkien's but with 1870s stasis instead of medieval stasis. Gameplay realistic within the assumptions of the setting. So, there would be elves and orcs and some magical items but no RTS-style combat, no instant communications, no stuff that breaks laws of physics unless it's magical, etc.
Technology would be limited to stuff that is still physically feasible - that is land tinclads and ironclads would be in, but no steampunk mecha.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 5/14/2012 1:54:48 AM >

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Post #: 46
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 2:55:44 AM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		Shadowrun has a similar vibe I think.

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Post #: 47
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 6:02:41 AM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Shadowrun has a similar vibe I think.

Practically every fantasy setting is about combination of magic and technology.

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Post #: 48
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 8:28:02 AM   
wodin


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Status: offline 		Hawkmoon by Moorcock is a book you'd love.

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Post #: 49
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 7:46:21 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.
Warspite1

Can I ask how the words in bold work together in that sentence?

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Post #: 50
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 8:41:23 PM   
doomtrader


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Status: offline 		I think he was talking about realistic results of fantasy actions.

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Post #: 51
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 8:45:10 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

I think he was talking about realistic results of fantasy actions.
Warspite1

doomtrader - how would you know if its fantasy?

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Post #: 52
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 9:44:07 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Hawkmoon by Moorcock is a book you'd love.

I have read two books from the series. Quite enjoyable. Especially stuff like Granbritain. Sadly, there isn't 3rd tome in libraries in my city. Anyway, I was inspired by Moorecock's Elric Saga. I had finished reading it and I wanted to play something with elves. So, I decided to make a fantasy mod for Armored Brigade. There's a link to its subforum in my sig.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.
Warspite1

Can I ask how the words in bold work together in that sentence?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Gameplay realistic within the assumptions of the setting. So, there would be elves and orcs and some magical items but no RTS-style combat, no instant communications, no stuff that breaks laws of physics unless it's magical, etc.
Technology would be limited to stuff that is still physically feasible - that is land tinclads and ironclads would be in, but no steampunk mecha.


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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

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Post #: 53
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 9:47:58 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Hawkmoon by Moorcock is a book you'd love.

I have read two books from the series. Quite enjoyable. Especially stuff like Granbritain. Sadly, there isn't 3rd tome in libraries in my city. Anyway, I was inspired by Moorecock's Elric Saga. I had finished reading it and I wanted to play something with elves. So, I decided to make a fantasy mod for Armored Brigade. There's a link to its subforum in my sig.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.
Warspite1

Can I ask how the words in bold work together in that sentence?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Gameplay realistic within the assumptions of the setting. So, there would be elves and orcs and some magical items but no RTS-style combat, no instant communications, no stuff that breaks laws of physics unless it's magical, etc.
Technology would be limited to stuff that is still physically feasible - that is land tinclads and ironclads would be in, but no steampunk mecha.

Warspite1

But surely, everything and nothing is then realistic if it uses magic? Or am I thinking about this too much?


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/14/2012 9:49:07 PM >

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Post #: 54
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 10:14:00 PM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
Joined: 11/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Hawkmoon by Moorcock is a book you'd love.

I have read two books from the series. Quite enjoyable. Especially stuff like Granbritain. Sadly, there isn't 3rd tome in libraries in my city. Anyway, I was inspired by Moorecock's Elric Saga. I had finished reading it and I wanted to play something with elves. So, I decided to make a fantasy mod for Armored Brigade. There's a link to its subforum in my sig.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.
Warspite1

Can I ask how the words in bold work together in that sentence?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Gameplay realistic within the assumptions of the setting. So, there would be elves and orcs and some magical items but no RTS-style combat, no instant communications, no stuff that breaks laws of physics unless it's magical, etc.
Technology would be limited to stuff that is still physically feasible - that is land tinclads and ironclads would be in, but no steampunk mecha.

Warspite1

But surely, everything and nothing is then realistic if it uses magic? Or am I thinking about this too much?

An example from RPG game:
In a non-realistic game, someone hits your character with a morning star. The character loses 20 hit points and that's all. Even if you don't have access to medical aid, you can walk with half of hit-points and rest and regain hit-points.

In a realistic game, someone hits your character with a morning star, the character has, let's say a cracked ribs and internal bleeding. He can't act for a while due to shock. After a few rounds of combat he collapses due to blood loss. Even if he somehow survives the combat, without medical aid he'll die. Due to tech level there probably isn't adequate level of medicine to stop internal bleeding. I mean this kind of realism. Just because it's a fantasy world, it doesn't mean that ordinary, non-magical stuff doesn't work like in our world.

And then there's the fantasy element in form of magic. There may be for example a priest with several "cure wounds" spells. There's a Cure Critical Wounds spell that can mend broken bones, fix ruptured internal organs and stuff like that.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 5/14/2012 10:16:02 PM >

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People shouldn't ask themselves why schools get shoot up.
They should ask themselves why people who finish schools burned out due to mobbing aren't receiving high enough compensations to not seek vengeance.

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Post #: 55
RE: Request to Any Developers.. - 5/14/2012 10:18:14 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Hawkmoon by Moorcock is a book you'd love.

I have read two books from the series. Quite enjoyable. Especially stuff like Granbritain. Sadly, there isn't 3rd tome in libraries in my city. Anyway, I was inspired by Moorecock's Elric Saga. I had finished reading it and I wanted to play something with elves. So, I decided to make a fantasy mod for Armored Brigade. There's a link to its subforum in my sig.

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm planning to make a realistic wargame set in a steampunk fantasy setting.
Warspite1

Can I ask how the words in bold work together in that sentence?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Gameplay realistic within the assumptions of the setting. So, there would be elves and orcs and some magical items but no RTS-style combat, no instant communications, no stuff that breaks laws of physics unless it's magical, etc.
Technology would be limited to stuff that is still physically feasible - that is land tinclads and ironclads would be in, but no steampunk mecha.

Warspite1

But surely, everything and nothing is then realistic if it uses magic? Or am I thinking about this too much?

An example from RPG game:
In a non-realistic game, someone hits your character with a morning star. The character loses 20 hit points and that's all. Even if you don't have access to medical aid, you can walk with half of hit-points and rest and regain hit-points.

In a realistic game, someone hits your character with a morning star, the character has, let's say a cracked ribs and internal bleeding. He can't act for a while due to shock. After a few rounds of combat he collapses due to blood loss. Even if he somehow survives the combat, without medical aid he'll die. Due to tech level there probably isn't adequate level of medicine to stop internal bleeding. I mean this kind of realism. Just because it's a fantasy world, it doesn't mean that ordinary, non-magical stuff doesn't work like in our world.

And then there's the fantasy element in form of magic. There may be for example a priest with several "cure wounds" spells. There's a Cure Critical Wounds spell that can mend broken bones, fix ruptured internal organs and stuff like that.
Warspite1

Okay Perturabo -I'll leave it there as I don't want it to sound like I'm belittling your ideas and thoughts. I don't really get it but that's just me; fantasy stuff is not my bag. Love that word "Steampunk" though

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