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RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A)

 
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RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/19/2012 6:44:10 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		CT, good luck with your battle. I know you are ahead of the game in real time and it has already happened. Once again, I am mystified by Cuttlefish's moves. My hard set rule as the Allies is that you do not use your carriers in 42 unless you are absolutely sure of KB position. Well I would think that this rule would also apply to any Japanese player who opts to split KB. To have a split KB operating in one location for such a long period of time is courting disaster when he does not know where your carriers are operating. It is like a death wish....

I am also mystifed by is level bombing with his vals. I actually use my avengers to level bomb small ships, including DDs and CLs. I prefer it over torpedo attack which usually miss and have plenty of sucess. But I level bomb at 1,000 to 2,000 feet. At 9,000 feet he will never hit a fast ship.

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 331
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/19/2012 7:04:44 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Rule No 1 for Japan: Never, ever split up the KB.

Rule No 2: See Rule No 1.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 332
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/19/2012 8:39:38 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 79
B5N2 Kate x 44
D3A1 Val x 40



Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 10
Kittyhawk IA x 20
P-39D Airacobra x 16
P-400 Airacobra x 31
P-40E Warhawk x 30


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Aylwin
DD Hull
DD Dale
DD Monaghan
DD Dewey
DD Farragut
DD MacDonough
DD Worden


after my B-17 appeared at Noumea I thought the enemy would react and flew them out again and filled the airfield with roughly 170 fighters and had a destroyer SAG at the base to welcome any attempt of bombarding the airfield... I didn't dare to move cruisers to the base as I also expected KB to be near enough to threaten them but DD should do fine even if attacked by KB... no bombardment TF showed up and it was KB to attack my destroyers in the morning... considering the excellent pre warning time and the 80/20 setting of my fighters I expected to drain this strike but once more, the fighters were pretty much useless doing not much... we tangle with an unexpected numerous escort for only a short time to turn onto the bombers but yet again only a handful are shot down... absolutely depressing...


This is one time I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. I would have been delighted with those results -- you had only thirty first-line fighters against 79 Zeroes. (Okay, make it fifty counting the Kittyhawks.) Where are your Wildcats? And why do you still have P-400's in mid-June?

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 7/19/2012 8:56:24 PM >

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 333
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/19/2012 10:13:42 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		P-400s are good fighters if you keep them down low and driven by good pilots.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 334
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/19/2012 11:57:00 PM   
wsoxfan

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/29/2012
Status: offline 		What's the average experience of your troops on the Phillipines? Would it be possible to mount a counteroffensive if he launches another of those attacks(in which the equivilant of two divisions were destroyed or disabled)? Anyways, good luck in the upcoming carrier battle.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 335
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 9:03:30 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

CT, good luck with your battle. I know you are ahead of the game in real time and it has already happened. Once again, I am mystified by Cuttlefish's moves. My hard set rule as the Allies is that you do not use your carriers in 42 unless you are absolutely sure of KB position. Well I would think that this rule would also apply to any Japanese player who opts to split KB. To have a split KB operating in one location for such a long period of time is courting disaster when he does not know where your carriers are operating. It is like a death wish....

I am also mystifed by is level bombing with his vals. I actually use my avengers to level bomb small ships, including DDs and CLs. I prefer it over torpedo attack which usually miss and have plenty of sucess. But I level bomb at 1,000 to 2,000 feet. At 9,000 feet he will never hit a fast ship.



thanks. Yes the battle happened already and to be honest, I was not counting on luck, I was completely counting on the odds, which were absolutely in my favour.

The whole operation against New Caledonia should not have happened the way it did IMO. Those two carriers that were hit off Java can't be out of the fight for long so he should have either waited for them or not gone for it at all, which would have been the best decision as 140 carrier based ac more still aren't a guarantee for success. In my case (probably not for most Allied players) it would have meant I would not send in my carriers though.

Yeah, also preferre to use my TBF to level bomb instead of doing unsuccesful torp runs. Am using them on 6000ft as they are trained on nav bomb and torp and they do just fine from that alt. Using them at 1000ft would mean needing to train them on lownav which I don't want as I can use the same pilots that are used for the dive bombers in the TBF with navbomb 70 and just have to train their torp skill additionally. But level bombing dive bombers really are a no go.

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Post #: 336
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 9:04:27 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Rule No 1 for Japan: Never, ever split up the KB.

Rule No 2: See Rule No 1.



same goes for me with Allied carriers until a certain stage which only happens very late in the war for me.

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Post #: 337
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 9:15:53 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 79
B5N2 Kate x 44
D3A1 Val x 40



Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 10
Kittyhawk IA x 20
P-39D Airacobra x 16
P-400 Airacobra x 31
P-40E Warhawk x 30


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 6 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Aylwin
DD Hull
DD Dale
DD Monaghan
DD Dewey
DD Farragut
DD MacDonough
DD Worden


after my B-17 appeared at Noumea I thought the enemy would react and flew them out again and filled the airfield with roughly 170 fighters and had a destroyer SAG at the base to welcome any attempt of bombarding the airfield... I didn't dare to move cruisers to the base as I also expected KB to be near enough to threaten them but DD should do fine even if attacked by KB... no bombardment TF showed up and it was KB to attack my destroyers in the morning... considering the excellent pre warning time and the 80/20 setting of my fighters I expected to drain this strike but once more, the fighters were pretty much useless doing not much... we tangle with an unexpected numerous escort for only a short time to turn onto the bombers but yet again only a handful are shot down... absolutely depressing...


This is one time I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. I would have been delighted with those results -- you had only thirty first-line fighters against 79 Zeroes. (Okay, make it fifty counting the Kittyhawks.) Where are your Wildcats? And why do you still have P-400's in mid-June?



No probs disagreeing with me.

We obviously completely disagree on the fighters, as I only had first line fighters at Noumea, driven by first line pilots (air 70 def 70). The P-39 is nothing worse than the P-40 and the P-400 is even better than the P-39 so in fact, the P-400 is the best fighter I have there. Only the single P-38 squadron at Port Moresby got better aircraft and that squadron is the only one I have.

The Wildcats are coming all behind the P-40, P-39 and P-400 and not only this, my USMC squadrons aren't as well trained as the USAAF ones. The Marine pilots all got 70 air skill but lack a little def skill, mostly in the mid 60s and the only frontline USMC squadrons I use are those that are on the USN carriers. The F4F-4 IMO is inferior to the above aircraft, if we are looking at it's speed, it's roughly 40mph slower than the USAAF fighters. Same armor, same gun value, probably more maneuverable (not giving much about that) and about the same climb rate but less durable? I would never switch a P-40 or P-39 for a F4F-4. Supporting the USAAF fighters yes, but if I would have more USAAF fighters I would use them instead of the F4F-4. Something different of course as soon as the Corsair is available.

The main problem in this engagement wasn't the performance of my fighters (they did well) but the duration of the engagement. There was an excellent pre warning time, there is a hell of a load of fighters at Noumea but the engagement was over in just a moment. All those fighters on Cap, all those escorts, they nearly did nothing. Then a short engagement within the bombers and that's it. He got away really light on losses here as a longer engagement would have probably meant a slaughter within the enemy's fighters and bombers. I am not afraid of KB's Zeroes on escort, mind you, my pilots are all excellently trained (will never get better in the whole war) and on escort, even KB's Zeroes are dead meat if not facing those early Allied pilots in their 50s air/def. I have depleted KB's airwings in so many games at losses that clearly favour the Allied I stopped counting. Something different of course if they show up on an strato sweep but on escort... boom

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Post #: 338
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 9:19:32 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wsoxfan

What's the average experience of your troops on the Phillipines? Would it be possible to mount a counteroffensive if he launches another of those attacks(in which the equivilant of two divisions were destroyed or disabled)? Anyways, good luck in the upcoming carrier battle.



The troops are all around 60 exp. I am not planning a counter offensive to be honest as there is not much I could gain and I am fine with holding Clark Field and Bataan and keep the IJA busy. It's just all about supply and the less we consume the better. Taking Northern Luzon back won't give me more than holding my stronghold, in fact it would cause me more trouble as I would have to spread out my units which is something I try to avoid right from the start, hence my strong buildup at Clark Field.

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Post #: 339
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 10:03:17 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Noumea at 115,160, Range 4,000 Yards




Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 1
BB Hyuga
CA Atago
CL Tama
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze
DD Hatsuharu
DD Isonami
DD Sagiri
DD Amagiri
DD Akebono
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
DD Farragut
DD Aylwin
DD Monaghan, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Dale
DD Worden
DD MacDonough, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
DD Dewey, Shell hits 1
DD Hull, Shell hits 5, and is sunk

wonder if it's good or bad if things happen as expected... the enemy bombardment TF shows up, our destroyers are on station to meet the enemy... our squadron crosses the T, the bombardment TF takes three of our destroyers apart and the rest runs... the DD didn't even make use of their torps, let alone firing their guns, as always for each salvo fired by the Allied ships, the IJN fired roughly have a dozen resulting in three DD sunk for one non damaging 5 inch hit on a BB... once more I start to think I would just be better off having the enemy bombard my base instead of trying to do something against it... use BB and lose them to dozens of IJN torps and you are told you have to use non torpedo magnets like cruisers and destroyers and you end up with no hits on the enemy and your small ships sunk, try different and someone probably tells you you have to use bigger ships...

the conditions would have been perfectly to do a torp attack and retreat, instead the destroyers sit there, don't fire and are taken out by a bombardment TF... I am not arguing that this is an unrealistic result, it's just once more depressing to see the destroyers not even firing their weapons so the way to get the result is highly questionable...

Reduced sighting due to 7% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 7% moonlight: 5,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 4,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 4,000 yards
Moosbrugger, Fred crosses the 'T'
DD Akebono engages DD Hull at 4,000 yards
DD Dewey engages DD Ushio at 4,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Hull at 4,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Hull at 4,000 yards
CL Tama engages DD Hull at 4,000 yards
DD Ushio engages DD Hull at 4,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Dewey at 4,000 yards
DD Farragut engages DD Ushio at 4,000 yards
DD Dewey engages DD Hatsuharu at 4,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Farragut at 4,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages DD Hull at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
DD Hull engages DD Sagiri at 3,000 yards
DD Hull sunk by BB Yamashiro at 3,000 yards
DD MacDonough engages DD Akebono at 3,000 yards
DD Monaghan engages DD Umikaze at 3,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Farragut at 3,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Monaghan at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages DD Dewey at 7,000 yards
DD MacDonough sunk by BB Yamashiro at 7,000 yards
BB Haruna engages DD Dewey at 7,000 yards
CA Atago engages DD Dewey at 7,000 yards
DD Monaghan engages DD Umikaze at 7,000 yards
DD Aylwin engages DD Ushio at 7,000 yards
DD Monaghan sunk by DD Amagiri at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Dewey at 11,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages DD Dewey at 11,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages DD Dale at 11,000 yards
DD Aylwin engages DD Suzukaze at 11,000 yards
CL Tama engages DD Dewey at 11,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Farragut at 11,000 yards
DD Aylwin engages DD Suzukaze at 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/20/2012 10:04:18 AM >

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Post #: 340
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 10:37:28 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		don't understand...if the CV battle has already taken place....which are the results?????????? I WANNA KNOW!

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 341
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 10:54:30 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I've said it before that crossing the T seems to be completely fubared.

You cross the T and one ship fires one round and the entire enemy task force fires back with multiple rounds.

It seems to happen to both sides so there is no prejudice, but in game terms it's better to be crossed than to do the crossing....

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 342
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 11:54:24 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Noumea at 115,160, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 5
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1
CA Atago, Shell hits 3
CL Tama
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
DD Suzukaze
DD Hatsuharu
DD Isonami
DD Sagiri
DD Amagiri
DD Akebono, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Ushio, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Canberra
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Exeter, Shell hits 2
CL Leander
CL Hobart
CL Boise, Shell hits 6, on fire
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 4
DD Preston
DD Cummings
DD Drayton
DD Lamson
DD Downes
DD Cassin, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Reid
DD Tucker, Shell hits 1

then the combo of Commonwealth cruisers escorted by USN destroyers joins the party engaging the IJN bombardment TF doing better than the destroyers while losing a DD sinking an enemy DD and "disrupting" the enemy... that's something very important you are always told (I think it has no influence on the game and the outcomes at all and is only a ppl's dream)...

the cruisers did exactly what I expected them, they fired lots of torpedo salvos but of course not a single salvo has hit, that only works for the Japanese by default...


Reduced sighting due to 7% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 7% moonlight: 11,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 8,000 yards

Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 8,000 yards

CA Exeter launches Torpedoes at DD Umikaze at 8,000 yards
CA Devonshire launches Torpedoes at BB Yamashiro at 8,000 yards
CA Canberra launches Torpedoes at BB Yamashiro at 8,000 yards
CL Phoenix fires at DD Umikaze at 8,000 yards
CL Boise fires at BB Yamashiro at 8,000 yards
CL Hobart launches Torpedoes at BB Yamashiro at 8,000 yards
CL Boise fires at DD Akebono at 8,000 yards
DD Tucker launches Torpedoes at DD Akebono at 8,000 yards
DD Tucker launches Torpedoes at DD Sagiri at 8,000 yards
DD Cassin launches Torpedoes at DD Umikaze at 8,000 yards
DD Cassin fires at DD Hatsuharu at 8,000 yards
DD Lamson launches Torpedoes at DD Umikaze at 8,000 yards
DD Tucker launches Torpedoes at DD Umikaze at 8,000 yards
DD Preston launches Torpedoes at DD Akebono at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages CA Exeter at 2,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CA Canberra engages DD Umikaze at 2,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages DD Akebono at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages DD Umikaze at 2,000 yards
DD Ushio engages CL Hobart at 2,000 yards
CL Leander engages DD Hatsuharu at 2,000 yards
DD Umikaze engages DD Tucker at 2,000 yards
DD Cassin sunk by DD Sagiri at 2,000 yards
DD Tucker engages DD Hatsuharu at 2,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Tucker at 2,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Preston at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 4,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CL Phoenix at 4,000 yards
CA Devonshire engages DD Umikaze at 4,000 yards
CA Canberra engages DD Umikaze at 4,000 yards
DD Umikaze sunk by CL Phoenix at 4,000 yards
CA Exeter engages CL Tama at 4,000 yards
DD Ushio engages DD Lamson at 4,000 yards
DD Tucker engages DD Amagiri at 4,000 yards
DD Preston engages DD Hatsuharu at 4,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Preston at 4,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CL Phoenix at 7,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CA Devonshire at 7,000 yards
CA Canberra engages BB Haruna at 7,000 yards
CA Atago engages CA Devonshire at 7,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Boise at 7,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Hobart at 7,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Leander at 7,000 yards
DD Ushio engages DD Tucker at 7,000 yards
DD Sagiri engages DD Lamson at 7,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Preston at 7,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Akebono at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CA Exeter engages CA Atago at 11,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CA Devonshire at 11,000 yards
BB Haruna engages CA Exeter at 11,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Phoenix at 11,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Boise at 11,000 yards
CL Hobart engages DD Ushio at 11,000 yards
CL Leander engages CA Atago at 11,000 yards
DD Tucker engages DD Suzukaze at 11,000 yards
DD Reid engages DD Akebono at 11,000 yards
DD Lamson engages DD Isonami at 11,000 yards
DD Ushio engages DD Lamson at 11,000 yards
DD Ushio engages DD Drayton at 11,000 yards
Task forces break off...

so far so good, sacrificing four of our DD at this point for one enemy DD sunk... engaging a superior force, well, that's not really unexpected... the goal was to keep the enemy from bombarding the airfield, taking out our aircraft there and due to "disrupting" the enemy bombardment TF and causing it to spend ammo and op points we are sure we scare them away with our sturdy defense, making the sacrifice of four modern USN DD worth it...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Noumea at 115,160

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson III (LR): 3 damaged
Hudson III (LR): 1 destroyed on ground
P-40E Warhawk: 28 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 5 damaged
B-26 Marauder: 36 damaged
B-26 Marauder: 1 destroyed on ground
Kittyhawk IA: 13 damaged
Kittyhawk IA: 1 destroyed on ground
P-400 Airacobra: 46 damaged
P-400 Airacobra: 4 destroyed on ground
P-39D Airacobra: 14 damaged
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground
SB2U-3 Vindicator: 1 damaged
SB2U-3 Vindicator: 1 destroyed on ground
Beaufighter Ic: 18 damaged
Beaufighter Ic: 1 destroyed on ground



Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
BB Yamashiro
BB Haruna
CA Atago
CL Tama


Allied ground losses:
294 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (3 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Airbase hits 14
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 41
Port hits 12
Port supply hits 1

BB Hyuga firing at Noumea
BB Yamashiro firing at Noumea
BB Haruna firing at Noumea
CA Atago firing at Noumea
CL Tama firing at Noumea

and what happens next? The disrupted bombardment TF (being disadvantaged against a surface combat TF) that had to spend ammo and op points wiping the floor with our two SAG nukes the base leaving it in non operational state, damaging halve of my aircraft there, destroying roughly one and a halve dozen on the ground... hurrey, it really was worth sacrificing my destroyers, the bombardment would not have been any worse if I would have just kept my ships back to watch the enemy BB lobbing shells into Noumea... really would like to see such an IJN bombardment TF carrying out it's mission (with such a devastating result) after before being attacked twice by enemy destroyers and more than halve a dozen cruisers...

oh well, at this point I just thought if this continues that way, there will probably not much left of my carriers at the end of the day as the plan seems not to work out well at all...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Noumea at 115,160, Range 26,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Shell hits 1
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 3
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 5, on fire
CA Atago, Shell hits 11, on fire
CL Tama, Shell hits 5, heavy fires
DD Suzukaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Hatsuharu, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Isonami, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Sagiri, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Amagiri, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Akebono, Shell hits 1
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
CA Canberra, Shell hits 3
CA Exeter, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Leander
CL Hobart
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Preston, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Cummings, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Drayton, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Lamson
DD Downes, Shell hits 1, on fire


CL Phoenix sank later as well as DD Drayton, Exeter is in sinking condition... makes it six DD and a CL sunk at this point plus nuking Noumea = bad idea to send something into the path of the non beatable IJN and once more I should have known better... don't send BB, they will be sunk by the IJN torpedoes, don't send anything else, not even against a (disadvantaged) bombardment TF as you can't stop it from bombarding nor can you hurt them... the enemy bombardment TF happily sailed away... so far, the operation around Noumea is a disaster, there's still the succesful torpedo attack on Hiryu during the night further North though...

and there is still the move of my carriers to a position NE of Noumea...



Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 26,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 26,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CA Exeter at 26,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Phoenix at 26,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Phoenix at 26,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages DD Akebono at 26,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages DD Drayton at 26,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages DD Cummings at 26,000 yards
Range closes to 22,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CA Exeter at 22,000 yards
CA Atago engages CA Canberra at 22,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Phoenix at 22,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Hobart at 22,000 yards
CL Leander engages CA Atago at 22,000 yards
CA Exeter engages DD Akebono at 22,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Cummings at 22,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages DD Isonami at 22,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages DD Hatsuharu at 22,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CA Exeter at 18,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CA Exeter at 18,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Phoenix at 18,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Leander at 18,000 yards
CL Tama engages CA Exeter at 18,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Akebono at 18,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Cummings at 18,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Drayton at 18,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Cummings at 18,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Drayton at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CA Exeter at 14,000 yards
CA Canberra engages CL Tama at 14,000 yards
BB Haruna engages CL Phoenix at 14,000 yards
CL Hobart engages CL Tama at 14,000 yards
CL Tama engages CL Leander at 14,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Downes at 14,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Cummings at 14,000 yards
DD Downes engages DD Amagiri at 14,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Cummings at 14,000 yards
DD Preston engages DD Hatsuharu at 14,000 yards
DD Drayton engages DD Suzukaze at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CA Atago engages CA Exeter at 10,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CL Phoenix at 10,000 yards
CA Canberra engages BB Haruna at 10,000 yards
CL Tama engages CL Hobart at 10,000 yards
CL Leander engages CL Tama at 10,000 yards
DD Ushio engages DD Drayton at 10,000 yards
DD Lamson engages DD Akebono at 10,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Amagiri at 10,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Cummings at 10,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Downes at 10,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Downes at 10,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Cummings at 10,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CA Exeter at 10,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CL Phoenix at 10,000 yards
CL Tama engages CL Phoenix at 10,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Hobart at 10,000 yards
CL Hobart engages CL Tama at 10,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Downes at 10,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Lamson at 10,000 yards
DD Drayton engages DD Suzukaze at 10,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Sagiri at 10,000 yards
DD Lamson engages DD Isonami at 10,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Lamson at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CL Hobart engages BB Hyuga at 11,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CA Exeter at 11,000 yards
BB Haruna engages CL Leander at 11,000 yards
CL Tama engages CA Exeter at 11,000 yards
DD Downes engages DD Hatsuharu at 11,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Drayton at 11,000 yards
DD Drayton engages DD Hatsuharu at 11,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Cummings at 11,000 yards
DD Drayton engages DD Isonami at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CA Exeter at 12,000 yards
CA Canberra engages CL Tama at 12,000 yards
CL Hobart engages CA Atago at 12,000 yards
CL Tama engages CA Canberra at 12,000 yards
DD Ushio engages DD Downes at 12,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Preston at 12,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Cummings at 12,000 yards
DD Sagiri engages DD Downes at 12,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Drayton at 12,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Drayton at 12,000 yards
DD Preston engages DD Suzukaze at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
CA Atago engages CA Exeter at 11,000 yards
CA Canberra engages CA Atago at 11,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Phoenix at 11,000 yards
CL Hobart engages CA Atago at 11,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Leander at 11,000 yards
DD Lamson engages DD Ushio at 11,000 yards
DD Drayton engages DD Akebono at 11,000 yards
DD Drayton engages DD Suzukaze at 11,000 yards
DD Sagiri engages DD Cummings at 11,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Preston at 11,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Drayton at 11,000 yards
DD Preston engages DD Suzukaze at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CA Exeter at 9,000 yards
CA Canberra engages CA Atago at 9,000 yards
BB Haruna engages CL Hobart at 9,000 yards
CL Hobart engages CL Tama at 9,000 yards
CL Tama engages CA Canberra at 9,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Downes at 9,000 yards
DD Lamson engages DD Suzukaze at 9,000 yards
DD Drayton engages DD Amagiri at 9,000 yards
DD Sagiri engages DD Cummings at 9,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Preston at 9,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Drayton at 9,000 yards
Tanaka, Raizo orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range increases to 11,000 yards
CL Tama engages CA Exeter at 11,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CA Canberra at 11,000 yards
CL Tama engages CL Phoenix at 11,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Hobart at 11,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Leander at 11,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Ushio at 11,000 yards
DD Akebono engages DD Lamson at 11,000 yards
DD Sagiri engages DD Drayton at 11,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Ushio at 11,000 yards
DD Preston engages DD Suzukaze at 11,000 yards
DD Lamson engages DD Suzukaze at 11,000 yards
Range increases to 13,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Hobart at 13,000 yards
CA Canberra engages CL Tama at 13,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Downes at 13,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Drayton at 13,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Ushio at 13,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Cummings at 13,000 yards
DD Hatsuharu engages DD Lamson at 13,000 yards
Range increases to 14,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CL Phoenix at 14,000 yards
CA Atago engages CA Canberra at 14,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Phoenix at 14,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Hobart at 14,000 yards
CL Leander engages CL Tama at 14,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Lamson at 14,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Drayton at 14,000 yards
DD Sagiri engages DD Cummings at 14,000 yards
DD Preston engages DD Sagiri at 14,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Preston at 14,000 yards
Range increases to 15,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CA Exeter at 15,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CA Exeter at 15,000 yards
BB Haruna engages CA Canberra at 15,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Hobart at 15,000 yards
CA Canberra engages CL Tama at 15,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Downes at 15,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Drayton at 15,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Isonami at 15,000 yards
DD Lamson engages DD Isonami at 15,000 yards
DD Downes engages DD Hatsuharu at 15,000 yards
DD Suzukaze engages DD Cummings at 15,000 yards
Abbott B. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 16,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Phoenix at 16,000 yards
CL Hobart engages CL Tama at 16,000 yards
CA Atago engages CL Leander at 16,000 yards
DD Preston engages DD Ushio at 16,000 yards
DD Lamson engages DD Akebono at 16,000 yards
DD Amagiri engages DD Drayton at 16,000 yards
DD Sagiri engages DD Cummings at 16,000 yards
DD Isonami engages DD Preston at 16,000 yards
DD Drayton engages DD Hatsuharu at 16,000 yards
DD Cummings engages DD Suzukaze at 16,000 yards
Range increases to 21,000 yards
BB Hyuga engages CL Phoenix at 21,000 yards
BB Yamashiro engages CA Canberra at 21,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages CL Tama at 21,000 yards
CL Hobart engages CL Tama at 21,000 yards
CL Leander engages DD Akebono at 21,000 yards
CA Exeter engages DD Isonami at 21,000 yards
Range increases to 27,000 yards
CA Exeter engages DD Ushio at 27,000 yards
CA Exeter engages DD Amagiri at 27,000 yards
CA Exeter engages DD Suzukaze at 27,000 yards
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion, at 79,76 (Clark Field)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 23
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 44



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 damaged


Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking 11th PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 51st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 2nd PA Constabulary Division ...
Also attacking USAFFE ...
Also attacking 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion ...
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion ...
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking 11th PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 51st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion ...
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Efate at 118,153

Weather in hex: Heavy rain




Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes


Allied aircraft
Martlet II x 5
F4F-3A Wildcat x 13
F4F-3 Wildcat x 15
F4F-4 Wildcat x 32
SBD-3 Dauntless x 102
TBF-1 Avenger x 15


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 7 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
DD Akebono, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 9, on fire
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 8, on fire
DD Suzukaze, on fire
DD Sagiri, on fire
DD Ushio, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Atago, Bomb hits 2, on fire
DD Hatsuharu, heavy fires
CL Tama, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage


and here we go... as you can see, the enemy carriers (not really going to call that group KB) ended up 8 hexes North of our carriers' position, the BB TF that attacked Noumea moved 16 hexes today, tangled three times with our SAGs, nuked Noumea (so much about the op points story) but now ends up in range of my carriers...

today's goal was to attack the enemy's carriers so seeing the BB being attacked in bad weather AGAIN with no British bombers attacking at all didn't result in cheers on my side as this also happened early already allowing the enemy BB to get away and now the same seems to happen again... hit rate isn't impressing but that comes down due to the weather and all this attack achieves is the kill of a light cruiser and probably another destroyer...

I really had to think about the torpedo attack on Hiryu every second minute to keep me amused at that point...


Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Hyuga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Suzukaze
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Haruna
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Atago
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Hatsuharu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CL Tama


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Efate at 118,153

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes


Allied aircraft
TBF-1 Avenger x 15


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, on fire
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Akebono, on fire

I really can't see much coordination issues having all my carriers combined, this squadron was the only issue we had with coordination... no, having all my carriers in one basket sure isn't the reason why the British torpedo bombers didn't attack once more...


Aircraft Attacking:
15 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Yamashiro
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Haruna
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Hyuga

this doesn't mean much as long as the battleships aren't heavily damaged... our ships roughly handled, Noumea being knocked out, my carriers two hexes too far from the enemy carriers and not able to really hurt the BB left me puzzled at this stage of the day...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Medan Coastal Gun Battalion, at 46,74 (Langsa)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 13
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 11



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 8000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb
13 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Efate at 118,153

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes


Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 6
Martlet II x 4
Swordfish I x 13
F4F-3A Wildcat x 13
F4F-3 Wildcat x 15
F4F-4 Wildcat x 32
SBD-3 Dauntless x 130
TBF-1 Avenger x 44


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 8 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires
CA Atago, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Sagiri, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Ushio, on fire, heavy damage
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 39, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Amagiri, heavy damage
DD Akebono, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Isonami, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hatsuharu, on fire

amazingly enough, we also attack in the afternoon this time and now it's good bombing weather and the British decided it may be worth to fly some sorties to aim the US attacks on the IJN's heavy units... bomb after bomb detonated on the battleships' decks, CA Atago was left in sinking condition and the British finished off Yamashiro with three torps after dozens of bombs left her being a burning wreck... three more destroyers are knocked out too, Hyuga and Haruna are left burning heavily, their damage state is unknown... we had more coordination issues in the afternoon but also launched far more aircraft... the British carriers decided to launch roughly 1/3 of the available torpedo bombers in the afternoon, making it 1/6 of the possible sorties during the whole day... so that makes you wonder which target has to show up next door to really see them launching their aircraft when they should... the US carriers had pretty much everything in the air...


Aircraft Attacking:
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
15 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
13 x Swordfish I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
6 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Hyuga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Ushio
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Yamashiro
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Atago
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Sagiri
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Haruna
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Akebono
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Isonami


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Efate at 118,153

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 49 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes


Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 16


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CA Atago, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Amagiri, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Sagiri, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Akebono, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk

a group of SBD attacks on their own, no problem with no Cap over the enemy TF...

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Hyuga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Atago
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Sagiri
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Akebono


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Efate at 118,153

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes


Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 15


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires
DD Hatsuharu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Sagiri, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Ushio, heavy fires, heavy damage

BB Hyuga takes another 10 500lb bombs, still only reported as burning heavily but still not reported as heavily damaged... probably need a combination of four dozen 500 and 1000lb bombs to actually put an enemy BB in sinking condition... considering how far the enemy is from a usable port I still think that both Hyuga and Haruna are in trouble even if we don't get the chance to attack them once more, while Yamashiro is sunk for sure...



Aircraft Attacking:
15 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 6000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Hyuga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Ushio


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Efate at 118,153

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes


Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 15


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 13, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage

heavy damage plus heavy fires should finish BB Haruna for sure, means that battleship should be sunk from bomb hits only... the 15 TBD (didn't have enough TBF to upgrade them before this operation) score 21 hits on the burning ships... not bad while dropping 30 500lb bombs... leaves us with Hyuga but I guess she should be in trouble too...



Aircraft Attacking:
15 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 6000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Haruna
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Yamashiro



that's it for the day... while I think it was an up and down during watching the replay, from a more distanced view, this was clearly a succesful day for us... CV Hiryu is in sinking condition after two torp hits and a fuel storage explosion, BB Yamashiro must have sunk already and even if we wouldn't pursue the enemy (orders to do that given already) I am sure Haruna is in sinking condition with BB Hyuga in unknown state of damage... probably more than halve a dozen enemy DD sunk, a heavy and a light cruiser already sunk or in sinking condition too...

on the other side, we have Noumea taking damage (18 ac destroyed), CL Phoenix being sunk, five DD being sunk, several cruisers and destroyers in different states of damage with Exeter being threated to sink but having a fair chance to make it as she is disbanded in Noumea's port, as are the other damaged ships... my fighters there flying Cap but an airstrike against the base is pretty much impossible anyway... our carriers' airwings didn't even lose halve a dozen aircraft with the British not launching an appropriate number of torpedo bombers being the only facet that isn't satisfying me with the carriers' performance... the high number of bombs hits on the enemy battleships will probably make up for the missing torp hits that were expected from the British...

all in all, I have to be absolutely satisfied with this day, I think my only wrong decision so far was having my two SAG engaging the expected bombardment of Noumea but if we would have fought cruisers we might have done slightly better (or worse, dependending if the IJN cruisers would have had their typical dose of steroids before the engagement)... once more one can notice my big dislike of losing ships for no real gain...

and this was just the first day of our operation, with the enemy carriers moving North today already, I am sure they will flee now, leaving the damaged ships behind as this is the only reasonable reaction now so we should have a field day tomorrow against everything that is left in the area and still afloat... we have also ordered our reinforcement convoys plus the covering BB SAG to move to Noumea as the IJN is no real threat anymore in the area around New Caledonia...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/20/2012 11:55:53 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 343
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 11:55:38 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

don't understand...if the CV battle has already taken place....which are the results?????????? I WANNA KNOW!



patience little Padawan...

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 344
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 12:03:07 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I've said it before that crossing the T seems to be completely fubared.

You cross the T and one ship fires one round and the entire enemy task force fires back with multiple rounds.

It seems to happen to both sides so there is no prejudice, but in game terms it's better to be crossed than to do the crossing....



the naval routines are pretty much all about experience, in every aspect. Crossing the T is an advantage, no doubt, but it gives you nothing if your ships have 50 exp and the enemy's got 70. You cross the T with your ships, fire a single salvo and the enemy blows you out of the water with a hundred times more shells in return... why? Because the enemy got so much more experience. A shame that's how it is in the end, but that's just it.

I have played around with naval engagements shortly after AE was released and found out that there really isn't much more than experience that counts and everybody that reaches later stages of the war will see that too, when the USN reinforcements wipe the floor with the enemy as the reinforcements in 44 got even better experience than the IJN while the top notch ships from 43 still are sitting ducks normally as their experience just sucks and will normally never reach IJN levels.

Crossing the T, firing broad sides from both sides, torp attacks, whatever, everything is trumped by experience and this not only seems to influence hit rates, but to a far higher extend salvos fired which makes it even worse. But the experience thing has been discussed to death and the conclusion (for me) always was and always will be not to use my Navy against the IJN at all and it would also have been better not to use my SAGs today as they couldn't even stop, disrupt or do whatever with the enemy bombardment TF... well, they acted as targets...



< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/20/2012 12:06:38 PM >

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(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 345
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 12:07:42 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		air losses show that CV Hiryu isn't sunk (not expected sunk anyway) but there is at least one BB and a cruiser sunk I'd say...




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 346
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/20/2012 12:21:07 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		I was willing to take on the enemy carriers yesterday already as we clearly outnumber them both in ships and aircraft and after the sub attack on Hiryu today we are even more convinced that the enemy CV aren't a real threat to our carrier group even though they surely might be able to inflict some damage but surely this shouldn't turn out into a disastrous loss in carriers in any instance. Therefor our carriers will operate freely against the remaining damaged IJN vessels as well against the enemy carrier group that is expected to run North at full speed anyway...

the enemy CV group was reported being 8 hexes North of our carriers, one hex further South has to be the heavily damaged Hiryu that should be finished off by the carriers tomorrow... all that is left from the TF that bombarded Noumea will probably head full speed North with the heavily damaged ships probably trying to reach the tiny port at Efate which will mean we will kill them later on if they won't sink there anyway...

we hope to catch Hiryu and one of the damaged BB (Hyuga I guess) that might be still afloat plus a destroyer or two...

not to forget with the current situation now are the IJA units that are now left on New Caledonia, not at all being able to take Noumea against what we have there already with two USMC and an Aus Div plus various other troops coming in in just a couple of days to bring our av to nearly 2000... that will mean we should be able to easily destroy those combat troops which also is a serious loss to the IJ...

there were two main objectives until yesterday:

A) creating a situation that enables us to bring in our reinforcements to Noumea without being threated

B) engage and destroy the expected four enemy carriers

we probably fully achieved objective A but due to the enemy's move North his carriers got away, execpt Hiryu that suffered from the sub attack... as consolation prize we heavily hit those BB from the bombardment while also taking some losses in ships...

all in all this has to be seen as full success and it is just the first day of a big operation...

more to follow after the weekend






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/20/2012 12:25:31 PM >

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 347
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 11:34:40 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jun 17, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Sabang (44,70)

TF 29 troops unloading over beach at Sabang, 44,70

Japanese ground losses:
872 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 132 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 28 (0 destroyed, 28 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (0 destroyed, 6 disabled)



17 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost from landing craft during unload of Imperial Guards Div /2
17 troops of a IJA Infantry Squad lost in surf during unload of Imperial Guards Div /6

really don't know what Cuttlefish is doing... isn't he aware of what happens if he lands his unprepped units at empty bases? For what reason ever he lands full Imperial Guards Div at Sabang that has been long evacuated as all my troops on Sumatra are bottled up at Langsa (South of Sabang)... actions like this really leave me puzzled on my opponents... why not landing at a friendly base or taking the empty base with a small unit first?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Palembang at 49,90

Japanese Ships
TK Akebono Maru
TB Hatsukari

Allied Ships
SS O16

our subwar against enemy tankers has not been really succesful so far even though we have several subs operating near every IJ oil field...

SS O16 launches 2 torpedoes at TK Akebono Maru
O16 bottoming out ....
TB Hatsukari fails to find sub, continues to search...
TB Hatsukari fails to find sub, continues to search...
TB Hatsukari fails to find sub, continues to search...
TB Hatsukari fails to find sub, continues to search...
TB Hatsukari fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

after yesterday's slaughter within the IJN battleline I expected to see less action this turn, only finishing some damaged ships including CV Hiryu... therefor my carrier group moved North and as the air search phase begins we suddenly get message after message of enemy carriers being in range of our bombers on nav search...

Morning Air attack on TF, near Luganville at 117,149




Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
B5N2 Kate x 40
D3A1 Val x 31



Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 12
Martlet II x 27
F4F-3A Wildcat x 29
F4F-3 Wildcat x 39
F4F-4 Wildcat x 76


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 15 destroyed, 8 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 2 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 12 destroyed, 6 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet II: 2 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Formidable
BB Prince of Wales
CV Indomitable
CA Pensacola
CV Lexington
BC Repulse
CV Enterprise
CV Saratoga
CV Yorktown
CV Illustrious

the IJN spots our carrier group too and launches a first, pityful strike against our carriers... it is unbelievable to me why the IJN carriers didn't move further North, fleeing towards Truk... asking CF about it he said he doesn't know, probably refulling DD but looking at the situation, his carriers only moved 6 hexes the whole day so I doubt he has set them to full speed and if he hasn't then I am not surprised he ends up in range today as he was very close to my carriers yesterday already... the only right decision would have been to have everything afloat moving North for one day at full speed, bringing everything outside of my carrier bombers' range...

having 560 carrier based ac we manage to field 170+ carriers on Cap that made me quite confident when I saw the incoming strike only consisting of 20 Zeroes escorting the 70 bombers... our fighters did quite well, soon focussing on the bombers taking down more than halve of the bombers... once more, the enemy divebombers are doing level bombing runs at 9000ft which is once more shocking to me as that setting just doesn't make any sense, asked CF about it again but had no reply... well, commented on the setting, either your opponent takes the hint or ignores it... with only 12 bombing Vals remaining I doubt having his settings correct (to divebomb) would have had much influence after the bombers have really been beaten up by my fighters then running into real heavy flak fire...

all bombs missed as well as the torps... what a start...


Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A1 Val bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x D3A1 Val bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x D3A1 Val bombing from 9000 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
18 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F4F-4 Wildcat (2 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-42 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
18 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-6 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 6 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4F-4 Wildcat (0 airborne, 13 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
15 planes vectored on to bombers
No.800 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 15000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
No.880 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
No.881 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (0 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
No.888 Sqn FAA with Martlet II (3 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-111 with F4F-3A Wildcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-121 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
13 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-211 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-221 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 18 minutes
13 planes vectored on to bombers



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Asiatic Fleet , at 79,76 (Clark Field)

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 23
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 43



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 damaged


Allied ground losses:
15 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion ...
Also attacking 41st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 71st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 2nd PA Constabulary Division ...
Also attacking 51st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion ...
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion ...
Also attacking 41st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 71st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Medan Coastal Gun Battalion, at 46,74 (Langsa)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 13
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 15



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 8000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb
13 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on West Sumatra Base Force, at 46,74 (Langsa)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 9



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking NS KNIL Territory Regiment ...
Also attacking West Sumatra Base Force ...



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/23/2012 11:35:10 AM >

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 348
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 3:12:44 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		the enemy carriers being six hexes away means we strike back (7 would have meant no strike from my carrier group)...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kirakira at 117,143

Weather in hex: Clear sky




Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37


Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 23
Martlet II x 4
F4F-3A Wildcat x 12
F4F-4 Wildcat x 24
SBD-3 Dauntless x 110
TBF-1 Avenger x 28


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Martlet II: 1 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Soryu, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
BB Hiei, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Tone, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CL Jintsu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Makigumo, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Akigumo
DD Samidare, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Isokaze
DD Kagero

I really don't know what is going on, not only have I been surprised about the IJN carriers not running full speed North but also due to their small strike and even more so, about the pityful number of Zeroes on Cap... a couple of days ago he attacked Noumea with nearly 80 Zeroes on escort and I doubt he did that without having any Cap over the carriers so where are all the Zeroes today? 20 were on escort and now 37 are on Cap... ok, the attack on Noumea also saw Hiryu part of the carrier group but that still doesn't make much sense to me... anyway, our strike comes in in perfect weather and the Zeroes were easily handled by our escorts that met them 1:1 in numbers... the Zeroes score a 3:1 in kills vs the escorts but more or less the whole bomber group gets through without being attacked and the bombers scream down on the enemy task force...

110 dive bombers together with 28 TBF level bombing account for 26 hits on the enemy ships which doesn't sound that much considering the good conditions for their attack... reason for this were lots and lots of bombers going after the destroyers instead of the valuable carriers... only two out of six carriers have been attacked and even those two didn't suffer as bad as expected as Soryu isn't even heavily damaged... CV Shokaku is done for sure already, she won't survive that damage as the way back to Rabaul or even Truk is just too far even without being attacked once more...

during the replay I thought this TF would only have two carriers which would also explain the low number of Zeroes on Cap as well as the small strike against my carriers and I only noticed the number of carriers when reading the combat report! There were actually 5 fleet carriers plus the small Shoho, makes it together with CV Hiryu 6 fleet carriers plus Shoho yesterday, all in all roughly 360 carrier based ac which is roughly 100 ac more than I expected... so after the strike on Noumea the enemy had roughly 340 carrier based ac vs my 560 on carriers plus the LBA at Noumea... carrier based ac ratio alone doesn't look that great anymore, the succesful attack on Hiryu was really good when thinking about the whole situation... both sides' carriers meeting each other without anything else happening could not have been that great as the IJN strikes usually perform just so much better than the Allied ones (only if the Vals are divebombing though)...

so the question after seeing this strike taking two carriers out of the fight really leaves me with the question where are all the IJN's aircraft? Considering the result of this strike I have to say that it could have gone really worse for the IJN even though the IJ commander won't be pleased about it of course, the war is not going really well so far when looking at the IJN's losses and today seems to see Cuttlefish's Midway happening... CV Soryu even suffered an ammo storage explosion but still isn't reported as heavily damaged after two 1000lb and one 500lb bomb hits...



Aircraft Attacking:
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
11 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
14 x TBF-1 Avenger bombing from 6000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
13 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
6 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
17 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
7 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
5 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(8 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 10 minutes
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(5 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(6 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 6 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (3 airborne, 6 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Shokaku
Ammo storage explosion on CV Soryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Soryu
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Hiei



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/23/2012 3:14:16 PM >

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 349
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 5:57:57 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Your combat results from your DD SAG are discouraging.. at least to me they are... I recall GreyJoy having tremendous resoults from some of his DD SAG against Japanese capital ships. Wonder what gives..hell he sank Yamato with a PT boat if I recall..

Do you mind posting the sunk ships list for both sides?

Enjoying!

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 350
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 6:07:17 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		I suspect the difference is the game date. Early on, as Castor has pointed out in the past, most USN ships have pitiful experience ratings and it is very difficult to increase it. Later on they come in with quite good ratings and kick butt.

(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 351
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 6:21:29 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Noumea at 115,160, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 5
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1
CA Atago, Shell hits 3
CL Tama
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
DD Suzukaze
DD Hatsuharu
DD Isonami
DD Sagiri
DD Amagiri
DD Akebono, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Ushio, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Canberra
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Exeter, Shell hits 2
CL Leander
CL Hobart
CL Boise, Shell hits 6, on fire
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 4
DD Preston
DD Cummings
DD Drayton
DD Lamson
DD Downes
DD Cassin, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Reid
DD Tucker, Shell hits 1

then the combo of Commonwealth cruisers escorted by USN destroyers joins the party engaging the IJN bombardment TF doing better than the destroyers while losing a DD sinking an enemy DD and "disrupting" the enemy... that's something very important you are always told (I think it has no influence on the game and the outcomes at all and is only a ppl's dream)...

the cruisers did exactly what I expected them, they fired lots of torpedo salvos but of course not a single salvo has hit, that only works for the Japanese by default...





Yes, but about what you would expect. In late 44 in my game with Fletcher class DDs, better radar and working torpedoes I would say my torpedo hit rate in surface fights is about 60% to 40% in favor of the Allies. Only British DDs are effective with torpedoes in 42. No real surprise there.

Likewise you and I differ on TF size. I don't use 15 ship TFs in surface combat. I find about 8-9 ships to be the most effective. Any more and frequently many ships just do not fire.

I just can't read Cuttlefish's moves or motives. It is as if his heart or mind is just not into this game. I know he is a better player.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 7/23/2012 6:38:39 PM >

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 352
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 6:33:06 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Even if more ships dont fire, wont you spread out the enemie's fire amongst your ships in a 15 ship SAG vs say.. 9 like you mentioned..

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Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 353
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 6:46:42 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Even if more ships dont fire, wont you spread out the enemie's fire amongst your ships in a 15 ship SAG vs say.. 9 like you mentioned..



And provide more targets... I find that in a situation like this that four smaller TFs (six to eight ships) will do more damage and then possibly use up the OP points that the enemy needs for his operation. Plus if you do score a lucky torpedo hit early on, then the follow up combats can go much better for you as the enemy TF is only as fast as the damaged ships. You might get plastered in the first or second round but then really do some damage in the later rounds. This has been my tactic for ten years now.

And the reality is that if you use four smaller TFs vs two 15 ship TF you might get closer to 100% of your ships both firing their guns and torpedoes vs maybe 50% the other way. Firing more shots is a very good thing. Large surface TF have always been at a disadvantage. Not all the time but most of the time. This has never changed since the days of UV.

CT is right. The biggest factor is experience. But you got to fight Japan in 42 and 43 and you have to make the best of your surface forces.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 7/23/2012 6:50:21 PM >

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(in reply to jeffk3510)
Post #: 354
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 8:08:55 PM   
jeffk3510


Posts: 4132
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		I agree with you about the TF size, and have understood that from day one (although I have never played UV, so maybe that doesn't count as day one..)

I haven't ever thought of the draining of opposing forces OP points in such a manner. I have also thought about the more ships you have, the less the enemy's shots will be concentrated on one or two ships...but like you said, more targets..

I hope that makes sense.

_____________________________

Life is tough. The sooner you realize that, the easier it will be.

Currently chasing three kids around the Midwest.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 355
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/23/2012 8:27:05 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

17 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo


This part is a bit disappointing: a single torpedo hit from British torpedoes. Otherwise, a day to remember. It would seem that CF is suffering game irregularities as well.

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(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 356
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/24/2012 8:47:16 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Your combat results from your DD SAG are discouraging.. at least to me they are... I recall GreyJoy having tremendous resoults from some of his DD SAG against Japanese capital ships. Wonder what gives..hell he sank Yamato with a PT boat if I recall..

Do you mind posting the sunk ships list for both sides?

Enjoying!



as witpqs already said, it`s because of their exp, which is only around 50 on average - night exp that is - Greyjoy's DD late war probably had 15 points night exp more and probably were Fletcher class DD (while exp sure makes a bigger difference than the ship class). I didn't expect the DD squadron to wipe the floor with the bombarding BB but I also didn't expect three of the DD being sunk by the enemy BB. I wanted to "disrupt" the enemy bombardment TF and thought the bombardment would not happen or would come off light after a DD squadron and another SAG with heavy cruisers would take on the bombardment TF with two very long engagements happening. I was wrong and paid for it. In fact, I should know better anyway. Looking at where we are currently, I dare to say it turns out to be a great victory (we are not done yet) but I could have all achieved this without losing a single ship up to now around New Caledonia, I should have just not engaged the bombardment TF that first fought my two SAGs and then nuked Noumea.


edit: have done a screenshot of ship losses in one of the coming turns when the action around Noumea is over.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/24/2012 9:28:22 AM >

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Post #: 357
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/24/2012 8:55:29 AM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		OMG! What on earth was your opponent thinking with that New Caledonia operation!

Nicely executed and you made him pay for it. Just as it should be done.

Now, we might see invasion of Tokyo in this one!

Good job... make sure those damaged ships cannot limb back towards Rabaul...

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 358
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/24/2012 9:11:45 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

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Night Time Surface Combat, near Noumea at 115,160, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 5
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1
CA Atago, Shell hits 3
CL Tama
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
DD Suzukaze
DD Hatsuharu
DD Isonami
DD Sagiri
DD Amagiri
DD Akebono, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Ushio, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Canberra
CA Devonshire, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Exeter, Shell hits 2
CL Leander
CL Hobart
CL Boise, Shell hits 6, on fire
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 4
DD Preston
DD Cummings
DD Drayton
DD Lamson
DD Downes
DD Cassin, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Reid
DD Tucker, Shell hits 1

then the combo of Commonwealth cruisers escorted by USN destroyers joins the party engaging the IJN bombardment TF doing better than the destroyers while losing a DD sinking an enemy DD and "disrupting" the enemy... that's something very important you are always told (I think it has no influence on the game and the outcomes at all and is only a ppl's dream)...

the cruisers did exactly what I expected them, they fired lots of torpedo salvos but of course not a single salvo has hit, that only works for the Japanese by default...





Yes, but about what you would expect. In late 44 in my game with Fletcher class DDs, better radar and working torpedoes I would say my torpedo hit rate in surface fights is about 60% to 40% in favor of the Allies. Only British DDs are effective with torpedoes in 42. No real surprise there.

Likewise you and I differ on TF size. I don't use 15 ship TFs in surface combat. I find about 8-9 ships to be the most effective. Any more and frequently many ships just do not fire.

I just can't read Cuttlefish's moves or motives. It is as if his heart or mind is just not into this game. I know he is a better player.



I expected more from the "big picture" of the mission against the fully expected bombardment TF. Not having both of my SAG being defeated as if we would have faced a surface combat TF and then seeing the enemy nuke Noumea AND move out the maximum possible distance after fighting my cruisers in daylight for a second time.

So this bombardment TF moved in at full speed, fought two succesful engagements against my SAGs, then nuked Noumea, fought a second succesful engagement against my cruiser SAG during daylight and moved out at full speed to it's maximum possible position. I never expected my task forces to defeat the enemy bombardment TF, but I surely expected to stop the bombardment, which would be quite a realistic approach IMO. But suffering three defeats, a nuke and seeing the enemy BB moving the maximum possible distance is more than a tad too much to me.

And it sure doesn't correspond with any of the 7,529 tips on the forum about what to do against an enemy bombardment nor do I find it realistic as I sure want to see the commander of the bombardment TF pressing on after first being engaged by 8 DD at very close range and then by over a dozen CA/CL/DD at close range once more when there were 50-75 Allied torps fired on the enemy task force at ranges that wouldn't make you feel safe. While real life saw IJN heavy cruisers back down from attacking USN CVE in broad daylight because they were engaged by a handful USN DE with the IJN thinking they engaged more and heavier units. Now I would like to see the IJN engaging two dozen CA/CL/DD at ranges close as 4000yards at night while being on a bombardment mission and then still carrying out the bombardment at maximum effect. I'm leaving out the question about the movement that seems pretty much impossible as the TF moved the same distance as it possible only could while firing not a single shell at my ships or Noumea.

Again, I don't really see the single results against my TFs as impossible, but the result of the mission as a whole is IMO questionable. A bit too much steroids involved for my taste.

_____________________________


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 359
RE: Continental Clash - Cuttlefish (J) vs castor troy (A) - 7/24/2012 9:17:54 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

Even if more ships dont fire, wont you spread out the enemie's fire amongst your ships in a 15 ship SAG vs say.. 9 like you mentioned..



And provide more targets... I find that in a situation like this that four smaller TFs (six to eight ships) will do more damage and then possibly use up the OP points that the enemy needs for his operation. Plus if you do score a lucky torpedo hit early on, then the follow up combats can go much better for you as the enemy TF is only as fast as the damaged ships. You might get plastered in the first or second round but then really do some damage in the later rounds. This has been my tactic for ten years now.

And the reality is that if you use four smaller TFs vs two 15 ship TF you might get closer to 100% of your ships both firing their guns and torpedoes vs maybe 50% the other way. Firing more shots is a very good thing. Large surface TF have always been at a disadvantage. Not all the time but most of the time. This has never changed since the days of UV.



CT is right. The biggest factor is experience. But you got to fight Japan in 42 and 43 and you have to make the best of your surface forces.



the reason why I didn't use four smaller TFs is simple, usually those four TFs don't engage. When I send four PT squadrons to attacks something, two or three do nothing, I get the message "TF xy engages enemy" but the combat doesn't pop up. May be a bug or whatever but I have seen this so many times with all kind of TFs that I have given up sending in more than three TFs.

Op points? Well, the enemy must have had 2000 instead of 1000op points, otherwhise I can not explain how all this could have happened in a single turn. I was counting on "depleting op points" but that didn't work at all.

IMO if I would have split my cruiser TF for example, I would have ended with up with more losses (one TF probably evaporated) with the second not engaging at all. Would I have split my DD squadron in two or three TFs plus the cruiser TF in two squadron, I would be accused of trying to exploit the game engine which is something I would think myself too.

What makes me wonder about TF size, why isn't that never true for the Japanese? Anybody given that a thought? Yes, because of their exp. It doesn't matter if there are 9 or 15 ships (other than the 9 ship TF probably gets torpedoed by a sub due to the lack of escorts), it's just about exp.

90% of the players would go with the tips of the forum saying I am nuts to use all my carriers in one TF having 560 carrier based ac in one TF in 42 and yet I tell everyone that I have been playing WITP and AE for 8 years, non stop PBEM and am sure that when it comes down to carrier engagements or PBEM I end up in the top 10% of results. This probably sounds totally arrogant and it's not the way I usually am, but in the end this is what happened in the last 8 years. I have heard ppl crying about whole CV TFs being lost due to one or two TFs reacting far more often than I have suffered a bad result from coordination issues. Let alone the flak fire my massed ships put up (yes, well knowing about diminishing returns). I think it is just a matter of taste and personal experiences in the end. So far, I have done quite well with what I did and ppl shouldn't only see my rants because going with my rants, I would have to be the worst PBEM players ever.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 7/24/2012 9:31:33 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 360
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