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RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 8:14:21 AM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

CERN did find some results that may have been an indication of a particle traveling faster than light, but the results are still being interpreted. It's been the buzz in the world of Physics lately.

Bill

Nope... false alarm... it was their mistake in testing...

Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 91

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 10:48:40 AM

zzodr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy
You don't know that. None of us do.

Actually, yeah I do know that. And none of us will live long enough to prove me wrong,
so basically, im right.

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Post #: 92

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 11:23:57 AM

wdolson

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I suppose in the same way scientists of the 1700s believed that heavier than air flight was impossible.

I give it 50/50 odds there is some workable way around the speed of light barrier, but we probably won't find the key in our lifetimes. However, you can't predict when a major scientific or engineering breakthrough will happen that changes the whole playing field.

Bill

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Post #: 93

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 9:02:59 PM

JWE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I suppose in the same way scientists of the 1700s believed that heavier than air flight was impossible.

I give it 50/50 odds there is some workable way around the speed of light barrier, but we probably won't find the key in our lifetimes. However, you can't predict when a major scientific or engineering breakthrough will happen that changes the whole playing field.

Bill

I'll take that bet, if you are suggesting we can ever achieve a velocity v' greater then c. However, I will grant that there are ways to fudge it. Jose Alcubierre found one way; not physically possible, but noteworthy.

There aren't many people looking at the nature space-time. At least not in this context. Jose was a pioneer in this regard, and offers some interesting possibilities as to understanding curvature. Curvature is a simple word that is used to describe certain things, but the concept and math are way different. I think the answer will be found in our more complete understanding of space-time. Btw ,it also follows simultanaety.

University of Arizona has people who are thinking along these lines. UA, Huntsville, has some too. C'mon on over and take a Philisophy of Science course with us.

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Post #: 94

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 9:22:17 PM

danlongman

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Joined: 3/27/2012
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It has been a long time since i had this much fun learning stuff.
Thank You All.
I do prefer the expression "Based on our current understanding......."
As in "Based on our current understanding of phyzix travel at speeds exceeding "c" is Against The Rules and getting even close to that speed phenomenally difficult."
Anybody remember James Blish's "Cities In Flight" series? Near the end of that an entire planet gets turned into a vehicle using its mass to achieve unthinkable (well somebody thought of it) speeds.
cheers

(in reply to JWE)

Post #: 95

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 9:31:07 PM

CRations

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I was reading that light cannot escape a black hole. So the speed of gravitational pull can exceed the speed of light? Or does time just slow/stop in a black hole (thus slowing the speed of light - if that makes any sense)?

CR

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Post #: 96

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 10:24:23 PM

JWE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations
I was reading that light cannot escape a black hole. So the speed of gravitational pull can exceed the speed of light?

Nope. Gravitational pull has no speed, only a slope.

quote:

Or does time just slow/stop in a black hole (thus slowing the speed of light - if that makes any sense)?

That's a better question. We can "see" black holes, sometimes with optical, mostly in the sub-nanometer range. But, as you travel down the gravity well, you get closer and closer to a region where the space-time curvature becomes infinite. The way that curvature works in this circumstance is that space-time deformation provides more paths (on a quantum level) for a photon to travel (spin) down, than up and out. Time dilation plays a signifigant role. They all still travel at c, nonetheless.

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Post #: 97

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 10:28:03 PM

mdiehl

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quote:

I was reading that light cannot escape a black hole. So the speed of gravitational pull can exceed the speed of light?

A while ago I read that the theory of General Relativity implies that gravity, however it is perpetuated, moves at the speed of light. So if the sun's gravity were suddenly "turned off" the Earth would not go flying away on a tangent of its orbit until approx 8:18 min after you "turned off" the sun's gravity.

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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 98

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 10:31:21 PM

Kwik E Mart

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Joined: 7/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I suppose in the same way scientists of the 1700s believed that heavier than air flight was impossible.

I give it 50/50 odds there is some workable way around the speed of light barrier, but we probably won't find the key in our lifetimes. However, you can't predict when a major scientific or engineering breakthrough will happen that changes the whole playing field.

Bill

I'll take that bet, if you are suggesting we can ever achieve a velocity v' greater then c. However, I will grant that there are ways to fudge it. Jose Alcubierre found one way; not physically possible, but noteworthy.

There aren't many people looking at the nature space-time. At least not in this context. Jose was a pioneer in this regard, and offers some interesting possibilities as to understanding curvature. Curvature is a simple word that is used to describe certain things, but the concept and math are way different. I think the answer will be found in our more complete understanding of space-time. Btw ,it also follows simultanaety.

University of Arizona has people who are thinking along these lines. UA, Huntsville, has some too. C'mon on over and take a Philisophy of Science course with us.

...isn't it Miguel? not Jose?...

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Post #: 99

RE: OT: Radios - 5/21/2012 11:53:14 PM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I suppose in the same way scientists of the 1700s believed that heavier than air flight was impossible.

I give it 50/50 odds there is some workable way around the speed of light barrier, but we probably won't find the key in our lifetimes. However, you can't predict when a major scientific or engineering breakthrough will happen that changes the whole playing field.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
I'll take that bet, if you are suggesting we can ever achieve a velocity v' greater then c. However, I will grant that there are ways to fudge it. Jose Alcubierre found one way; not physically possible, but noteworthy.

There aren't many people looking at the nature space-time. At least not in this context. Jose was a pioneer in this regard, and offers some interesting possibilities as to understanding curvature. Curvature is a simple word that is used to describe certain things, but the concept and math are way different. I think the answer will be found in our more complete understanding of space-time. Btw ,it also follows simultanaety.

University of Arizona has people who are thinking along these lines. UA, Huntsville, has some too. C'mon on over and take a Philisophy of Science course with us.

I don't believe we will ever be able to exceed the speed of light (the equations start getting imaginary numbers for one thing), but we may find a way around it as suggested by various SF authors like hyperspace, warp drive, or worm holes. There is some math to suggest that some of these things may even be possible, though the science is a long ways from reality.

Bill

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Post #: 100

RE: OT: Radios - 5/22/2012 12:03:27 AM

wdolson

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From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations

I was reading that light cannot escape a black hole. So the speed of gravitational pull can exceed the speed of light? Or does time just slow/stop in a black hole (thus slowing the speed of light - if that makes any sense)?

CR

The speed of light can change as it moves through different things. Light refracts through a crystal because of this. Diamond slow down light more than anything else, which is why diamonds have a special quality of sparkle no other gem has. Many other things slow down light too.

Gravity is an odd thing that we still don't completely understand. One of the Holy Grails in Physics is the Grand Unified theory that combines all the forces in the universe together in one simple equation. We've figured out how most of the forces work, but gravity is still one of those things we observe, but don't fully understand.

JWE pretty much explained how light behaves with a black hole.

Bill

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Post #: 101

RE: OT: Radios - 5/22/2012 12:40:31 AM

Joe D.

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Joined: 8/31/2005
From: Stratford, Connecticut
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I don't believe we will ever be able to exceed the speed of light (the equations start getting imaginary numbers for one thing), but we may find a way around it as suggested by various SF authors like hyperspace, warp drive, or worm holes ...

My favorite is "folding space": it's so easy to demonstrate by punching holes with a pencil into a blank piece of paper.

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Post #: 102

RE: OT: Radios - 5/22/2012 2:48:26 AM

Blackhorse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

Anybody remember James Blish's "Cities In Flight" series? Near the end of that an entire planet gets turned into a vehicle using its mass to achieve unthinkable (well somebody thought of it) speeds.
cheers

[raises hand] I do!

What city has two names twice?

. . . and don't mess with Omaha-Nevada; or was it Nebraska-Las Vegas?

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Post #: 103