vicberg
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Joined: 4/19/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Michael T
I am continuously astonished at the number of venomous shots that are fired my way at this site. I am not going to be drawn in to even try to defend/deflect that rubbish anymore. But I will say a few things to set the record straight in relation to this game.
First the rules agreed to in this game were of Tarhunnas own design bar two. The Reserve limit and No runaways. These were my requests. All others his. Tarhunnas was free to reject mine and play someone else. Ultimately we are all free to play under whatever rules we like. And contrary to the opinion of others I do not deliberately stack the deck in my favour. I honestly try to evoke a better, more fun, more stimulating game from these house rules. I do not try to deceive anyone.
The stock reserve rules, IMO are rubbish. I do not believe putting the entire Soviet Army, or German Army in reserve mode is ok. Hence the more realistic limit. As for its effect on this game, it is a non issue because we did not get to a point where the possible abuse could have made any difference at all.
The run away rule. IMO this is the biggest failing of the game. There is nothing in the game that dissuades running by either side. I am not going in to theories and fixes here. But when I play a game that is supposed to represent a 1941 Barbarossa situation I want to actually fight the enemy, not chase them across a map devoid of units and never get a chance to come to grips with them. That is not my idea of a fun 1941 game. No matter which side I play.
Muling nullified this running ploy. It allowed me to punish a runner. Now that muling is gone I will only play as German with some kind of penalty for Russians who run (Fredrik and I did discuss some political rules that involved penalties for running, on both sides) or my opponents word not to. I also believe that the run ploy, in capable hands guarantees a victory for the SU. I absolutely refuse to sit down and play a game, spending hour upon hour, knowing that I am dooming myself to some desperate defensive game in 1943/44. No thanks. If other players are happy to do that well good for them.
For me in 1941, as German, I want to think I have some chance to pull off the win, or set it up for 1942 or even 1943. If I get to have my shot in 41/42 and fail I am more than happy to then try to survive in to 44/45. But I want my chance at victory first. Running Soviets rob me of that chance/fun. The Soviet only players want to have their winter 41 fun and 44/45 fun but deny the German players their chance at victory and the fun of actually fighting the 1941 Russian Army. Soviet units that disappear in to the depths of Russia should be something for 1942.
I will be more than happy to play *anyone* as Soviet with no house rules. Sounds like a nice relaxing game to me. But I would honestly prefer mirrored games with the limited reserve and no run rule. And as of now a para limit rule as well. I truly hope WITE 2 does a better job at simulating the desperate war of 1941 that occurred. As it stands, the Soviets in WITE can run whenever they feel any heat at all, not much desperation there at all.
A final thing about the house rules. I am willing to play under the same conditions as Russian against any player who will let me play German under those very same conditions. Fredrik has declined the return match at this stage. He has valid reasons. One of which is not having played German for some time. I fully understand this. However, Fredrik I am willing to wait a week or two for you to get up to speed, even longer if you are keen on the return match. I had my fun, you have every right to have yours.
I don't know what else I can say about the rules. If I were saying I will only play German under those conditions then sure that’s pretty sad. But I am willing to play Fredrik again as Soviet with said very same rules.
As for this game. It was the most challenging I have faced. His defensive method was intimidating and it was no walk in the park. It took hours to figure out how to unravel it. Even my wife commented on the time it was taking for a move. A first. This is the great myth, winning as Axis is easy. What rubbish. Winning as the Soviets is easy when you can run for hills at the slightest sign of trouble. The Soviet only crew can never appreciate the effort, pressure, stress and time commitment it takes to achieve the results the good Axis players do. If you don't apply yourself fully against a good Russian player its curtains by late summer.
I think Tarhunnas forward strategy may well work with some tweaking. More than a few of my advances were almost stopped. With a breakthrough coming only with the last throw of the dice. A 2.2 : 1 win or some such. The thing the German must have is momentum. As soon as it stops, trouble.
Tarhunnas has been a great opponent. I truly enjoyed the game. I wish him well in his other games. But I hope he takes up my offer of the mirror. I can wait.
I saw this one a mile away. Everyone has been bitching about mules, and in the hands of TWO players on this site, mules were overwhelming. But has there been anything done about Soviet run away with picket strategy? Not much, other that German players pointing out it becomes a clickfest in 42 and 43. This game is making a point. It's not to side favor for Michael. The personal attacks are worthless. It's to show what happens if the Soviets are forced to fight historically. Because if they are allowed to run away and put silly pickets up everywhere with no consequences, the game becomes a silly clickfest for the Germans later. Michael may have shown that a historical Soviet game is weighted towards the Germans. OK. Now we have something to work with. Balance the game in 41 from this perspective. Run away should hurt the Soviets. Don't run away, and German panzers may be overweighted. Balance somewhere in middle. But don't sit here an try to tell me that the game is fine as is. It isn't. It needs to be better balanced.
< Message edited by vicberg -- 6/9/2012 6:42:50 AM >
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Printable Version
RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II - 
My sources (in this case a book written by Sokolovski, Marshall of the Soviet Union) say during 1941 (5 months + 1 week that is) 150 rifle divisions and brigades were sent to the front. Well, these numbers actually are the same on the game if you check the reinforcements thing. 
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