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Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/28/2012 7:02:55 PM

Kordanor

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/28/2012
Status: offline

Heya,

I am wondering if there are any plans to bring the game to steam and/or if there are any plans about reducing the price of (33,99 + 21,99 + 21,99 =) 77,97 EUR.

Well I guess the Devs will probably only tell about it if it was already done.
So I am also asking the Distant Worlds Community /Matrix Games Community about their experiences.

Were there ever Matrix Games with Steam Releases / Price drops? Any expectations for the future? What about your thoughts about additional Expansions?

I think it's a shame that games like that or Dominions 3 (5 years old and still 55$) are that "locked away".
Is this necessary for this kind of niche games? Did the Dev make bad Experiences with Steam?

Seems like Spiderweb (Avadon, Avernum), which also had quite high prices for their RPGs in the past, came to the decision to try out setam and in the same move, the prices were reduced massively. But as they continued the path and also released Avernum on Steam for a low price, I guess it worked out well for them.

So I welcome any comments and speculation about that. Just please no flames.

Post #: 1

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/28/2012 7:16:49 PM

Cauldyth

Posts: 752
Joined: 6/27/2010
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Welcome, Kordanor!

Erik did comment last year about Steam, and implied that it was unlikely that DW would ever show up on there. Unfortunately, it's not a simple matter of any dev who wants to go on Steam just snapping their fingers and making it happen. There is actually a significant amount of extra development time required in order to integrate with the Steam systems. From what I understand, DW development is essentially a one-man show, so there isn't a lot of spare dev time to go around.

Erik also pointed out that a lot of games actually get rejected by Steam. They have some sort of approval process, and actually reject many games. A good example is Space Pirates and Zombies, which turned out to be a highly successful game. It was originally rejected by Steam. The dev team had to do their own selling of the pre-release beta, before word of mouth spread enough and Steam decided to pick them up.

As for price drops, they do typically have a sale around Christmas time. There's a new DW expansion due late 2012, so I wouldn't be surprised to see another sale on the existing game/expansions around the same time.

That said, it's totally worth full price. As is Dominions 3. ;)

(in reply to Kordanor)

Post #: 2

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/28/2012 7:29:35 PM

Kordanor

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/28/2012
Status: offline

Ah, cheers!
Thanks for all the info!

Can't say much about the steam requirements, but I guess they are more of an "stability"/ compatibility question. If you check out Geneforge for example...ugly as hell, horrible sound, integrated in steam, but no achievements and such. And Spiderweb is also a "one man show" as far as I know. But keeping a standard of compatibility should be a good thing for everyone.

(in reply to Cauldyth)

Post #: 3

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/29/2012 12:07:29 PM

wozza

Posts: 85
Joined: 3/5/2010
Status: offline

The other reason why it isn't on Steam is because they take a large percentage of the sale from the developer.

I never want to see Matrix games on Steam i think it is unnecessary because Matrix games sell them selves. And also most people like myself support small developers like Matrix because they don't use restrictive DRM and force you to use Steam.

(in reply to Kordanor)

Post #: 4

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/29/2012 5:05:51 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wozza

The other reason why it isn't on Steam is because they take a large percentage of the sale from the developer.

I never want to see Matrix games on Steam i think it is unnecessary because Matrix games sell them selves. And also most people like myself support small developers like Matrix because they don't use restrictive DRM and force you to use Steam.

You hit a really big thing with me right there. I refuse to buy a game from Steam or Origin due to the whole 'guilty till proven guilty' attitude they take with the restrictive DRM. The way that is done just assumes that every one is a thief. Plus there is the fact that I don't want to have to be connected to the internet to be able to play a single player game I have bought legitimately. Anything that requires me to be 'always connected' just to play is a no go with me.

Yep, I went into rant mode, but as you can see, I am quite happy with the way Matrix handles their own sales, and I have no problem with them requiring the serial code to install. Nice thing about Matrix games, even when my internet is down, I can still start and play my games.

_____________________________

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'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to wozza)

Post #: 5

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/29/2012 7:05:33 PM

solops

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
You hit a really big thing with me right there. I refuse to buy a game from Steam or Origin due to the whole 'guilty till proven guilty' attitude they take with the restrictive DRM. The way that is done just assumes that every one is a thief. Plus there is the fact that I don't want to have to be connected to the internet to be able to play a single player game I have bought legitimately. Anything that requires me to be 'always connected' just to play is a no go with me.

Yep, I went into rant mode, but as you can see, I am quite happy with the way Matrix handles their own sales, and I have no problem with them requiring the serial code to install. Nice thing about Matrix games, even when my internet is down, I can still start and play my games.

I agree 100%. Anyone who sells on Steam loses me as a customer.

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 6

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/29/2012 8:59:11 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: solops

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
You hit a really big thing with me right there. I refuse to buy a game from Steam or Origin due to the whole 'guilty till proven guilty' attitude they take with the restrictive DRM. The way that is done just assumes that every one is a thief. Plus there is the fact that I don't want to have to be connected to the internet to be able to play a single player game I have bought legitimately. Anything that requires me to be 'always connected' just to play is a no go with me.

Yep, I went into rant mode, but as you can see, I am quite happy with the way Matrix handles their own sales, and I have no problem with them requiring the serial code to install. Nice thing about Matrix games, even when my internet is down, I can still start and play my games.

I agree 100%. Anyone who sells on Steam loses me as a customer.

Ditto to that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%28content_delivery%29#Criticism

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to solops)

Post #: 7

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 1:03:58 AM

shinobu

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I hate Steam. Period.

(in reply to Kordanor)

Post #: 8

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 2:50:59 AM

Kordanor

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/28/2012
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I don't see where all the hatred is coming from, especially when steam is just an option and not mandatory. Currently it seems like everyone and their dog offers a steam version as an option.
Examples? Xenonauts, Grimrock, Avadon/Avernum.
And also Galactic Civilizations 2 to throw in a 4X Space game.

If you are against using steam yourself thats fine. But if you want to "forbid" other users to use steam, not so much.

Personally I love steam and if I buy a game it's either a CE-Box or a digital steam edition. I like to have my games all in one place and not spread around the internet. For that reason I wont buy a digital game, if I can't get it on steam. That was also one of my reasons to not buy Mass Effect 3.

(in reply to shinobu)

Post #: 9

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 3:30:43 AM

danlongman

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline

I do not like steam. I do not like piracy. I prefer to have my games on disk in a drawer at home.
The world has changed and I have to use these various online sources if I want to obtain all the
games I want. I have never had the slightest problem with GamersGate and have found their
service to be excellent...but no home copy. Fortunately I have had few issues with steam service.
This is fortunate indeed because I have not been able to detect if they have any customer service
at all. Their entire customer service process seems be designed to make you go away in frustration.
I have never had a satisfactory result to a query or complaint. On the other hand I have purchased
some decent games for less than the cost of a bottle of beer.
cheers

(in reply to Kordanor)

Post #: 10

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 3:50:38 AM

ceyan

Posts: 168
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor

I don't see where all the hatred is coming from, especially when steam is just an option and not mandatory. Currently it seems like everyone and their dog offers a steam version as an option.
Examples? Xenonauts, Grimrock, Avadon/Avernum.
And also Galactic Civilizations 2 to throw in a 4X Space game.

If you are against using steam yourself thats fine. But if you want to "forbid" other users to use steam, not so much.

Personally I love steam and if I buy a game it's either a CE-Box or a digital steam edition. I like to have my games all in one place and not spread around the internet. For that reason I wont buy a digital game, if I can't get it on steam. That was also one of my reasons to not buy Mass Effect 3.

I use Steam on a regular basis, and have a large catalog of Steam games, although I prefer other services. I really only have two problems with Steam:

1) Unfixed problems. Steam has some problems, mostly not that big of a deal, that have been on the docket for years. Games will still not properly download while playing, even if the official stance from Valve is that they're supposed to continue downloading when not playing multiplayer. Instead you have to alt-tab out, forcibly pause the already paused download, then restart it. Offline mode will also not work for some people on some games, and there are many conditions in which anyone can break it intentionally which will occasionally happen to people unintentionally. I can forgive this in many cases, but not when we're talking about a relatively simple application that forms the backbone of a multi-million dollar company and have been known/acknowledge for years.

I don't know if it's acknowledged or not, but I also have to register my PC through Steamguard at least three times every time I rebuild before it sticks.

2) The users. Valve has people convinced that requiring a third-party app to download and authenticate a game purchase isn't DRM. Valve has also convinced people that they're never going to screw over the customer which isn't necessarily nefarious but, for example, all we have is a off-the-cuff comment that they won't from a guy who has also acknowledged he doesn't actually run the company he owns. Or, like in this case, that somehow installing a game through any other source and adding the game to Steam to make use of the Steam Overlay is either not to be done or somehow worse than buying the game from Steam, despite the all of 60 seconds of extra organization and effort it takes to manage that.

Granted there isn't a whole lot Valve can do about #2, but there ya go.

< Message edited by ceyan -- 5/30/2012 3:51:35 AM >

(in reply to Kordanor)

Post #: 11

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 4:29:47 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
Examples? Xenonauts, Grimrock, Avadon/Avernum.

Where do you see Xeononauts being offered on Steam? I see nothing to support this statement on either Xenonauts' own page, nor on Steam.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
And also Galactic Civilizations 2 to throw in a 4X Space game.

Again, I cannot find any statement to support this claim on GalCiv2 developer's site - Stardock, nor on Steam's website.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
But if you want to "forbid" other users to use steam, not so much.

Nobody has proposed such. Several people have expressed that THEY will not buy DW if it goes Steam, but I haven't seen any of those posts even vaguely suggest that this is something other than free choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
I like to have my games all in one place and not spread around the internet. For that reason I wont buy a digital game, if I can't get it on steam.

Curiously, that's exactly one of my strongest reasons for not using Steam - I can't play the games I bought and paid for outside of the specified region. Instead of having your having different regional restrictions - you now have none of them available to you when you move. Improvement?

Steam seems grand if you have no problems. Once you have a problem - your f**ked.

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Kordanor)

Post #: 12

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 7:25:04 AM

WiZz

Posts: 372
Joined: 9/28/2011
From: Ukraine
Status: offline

So, looks like I'm only man, who like STEAM.

You guys forget one obliviously reason why matrix doesn't come to STEAM of other services.
It's possibility to set inadequate price for their games. Steam sets clear gradation for game pricing. The reasons, why trilogy of DW costs more expensive, than typical AAA-projects (with development cost over9000 thousands of dollars) are hidden for me. I also forgot to say about Matrix reluctance of making Gold edition or standalone addons.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 13

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 7:39:12 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

So, looks like I'm only man, who like STEAM.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to WiZz)

Post #: 14

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 8:43:51 AM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
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I was actually wondering about this too. The fact is that Matrix doesn't have so much visibility, which naturally limits the sales of the game. I found out about distant worlds on Paradox OT forum. Bought it on Gamersgate.

Now I've found out that this is truly a gem in 4x genre. I especially like the realistic approach to the game.

Problem for me is that it doesn't sell its expansions on Gamersgate or steam. I don't like spreading my owned digital games on too many vendors. Other problem is what I'm used to buying from steam: Older games you get from sales on reduced price.

I will most likely buy the expansions from matrix store at full price though as this game gets better and better as I play it.

EDIT: I'm just wondering if the real reason of not using steam is matrix's own digital store? But just look at stardock and what they decided a while ago... Although Matrix game are not mainstream so own store with limited visibility and clientele might not be too bad for them

But steam is good. For the producer and customer. Publishing this game on steam would get it much more visibility and thus more sales and thus more money to develop it further. And as volumes rise users might get it more cheaply.

< Message edited by Velihopea -- 5/30/2012 8:47:49 AM >

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 15

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 11:07:09 AM

Kordanor

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/28/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Where do you see Xeononauts being offered on Steam? I see nothing to support this statement on either Xenonauts' own page, nor on Steam.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/69341191/xenonauts
Yes, you will on release. We have now signed a distribution deal with the good folk at Valve.

Xenonauts will use Desura for distributing pre-order builds until the game is finished, which is a similar service to Steam but is more geared towards indie games.

At release, all pre-orderers and Kickstarter backers will be given the choice of a Desura or Steam key for their pre-order.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Again, I cannot find any statement to support this claim on GalCiv2 developer's site - Stardock, nor on Steam's website.

Buy it on stardock website or on steam - there is your choice.

quote:

Nobody has proposed such. Several people have expressed that THEY will not buy DW if it goes Steam, but I haven't seen any of those posts even vaguely suggest that this is something other than free choice.

Yes, but saying "I will not buy the game if it goes steam" denies the choice and indicates that stardock would (in theory) lose a customer if they offered the additional option.
(Besides of course, that it's not possible anymore if you already bought the game).

quote:

Curiously, that's exactly one of my strongest reasons for not using Steam - I can't play the games I bought and paid for outside of the specified region. Instead of having your having different regional restrictions - you now have none of them available to you when you move. Improvement?

I am using steam in France and in Germany. There are zero restrictions with using the titles I already purchased. The restriction so far is purely in buying the games. E.g. some games could not be bought in france at some point (Tropico afaik) other games were not checked for age restriction and therefore are not available in germany (there was one Zombie killing game but that's the only case afaik). And dependent on your region in which you buy the key, you might get a different version of the game (Fallout NV France->PEGI / Germany -> USK/Cut Version, the only case I know of) but you can use both versions in both countries.
I am pretty sure that there are these restrictions you are writing about, but that probably is like wanting to play games in the Iran as there might be a no trade agreement from valve or something like that.

quote:

Steam seems grand if you have no problems. Once you have a problem - your f**ked.

As far as I can tell their csm support is ok. And I put more faith in them than in some "no-name" company also running a garage digital store if you know what I mean.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 16

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 1:21:45 PM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
And also Galactic Civilizations 2 to throw in a 4X Space game.

Kayoz:
Again, I cannot find any statement to support this claim on GalCiv2 developer's site - Stardock, nor on Steam's website.

Stardock released GalCiv2 in steam - I bought it from there a couple of months back. Stardock also sold their digital store to Gamestop and now will publish all their future games on many digital vendors. Steam, Gamestop etc.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 17

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 7:37:50 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
Xenonauts will use Desura for distributing pre-order builds until the game is finished, which is a similar service to Steam but is more geared towards indie games.

Hrmm - I'll have to reconsider my contribution through Kickstarter. I was under the impression that it would be released DRM-free. If they are going to require the installation of spyware like Steam, then I'll wait for Razor1911 to fix that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
Buy it on stardock website or on steam - there is your choice.

Brilliant. I search for "galactic" on Steam's site, and Galactic Civilizations doesn't come up - though it SEEMS to be there if I follow the Steam link from galciv2.com. Go go Steam.

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?snr=1_4_4__12&term=galactic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Nobody has proposed such. Several people have expressed that THEY will not buy DW if it goes Steam, but I haven't seen any of those posts even vaguely suggest that this is something other than free choice.

Yes, but saying "I will not buy the game if it goes steam" denies the choice and indicates that stardock would (in theory) lose a customer if they offered the additional option.
(Besides of course, that it's not possible anymore if you already bought the game).

Going back to your original statement, you stated - "But if you want to "forbid" other users to use steam, not so much." - and your statement I am responding to now - "...but saying "I will not buy the game if it goes steam" denies the choice and indicates that stardock would (in theory) lose a customer"

I'm not forbidding anyone from buying a Steam product. I am not denying their right to choose. I refute your claim.

How is my choice about my purchasing a denial of someone else's choice? My choice is mine alone. I do not presume to forbid others to buy a product that I find unattractive.

By your argument, if I don't buy a Pukka pie, I'm denying others the right to choose to buy their own Pukka pie. Sorry, but you make no sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
I am using steam in France and in Germany.

Completely irrelevant. You are still within the same region. Europe is one region. Use your Steam key in Brazil or Japan, and that would be a relevant test of region restrictions. Or find a visiting Russian, and ask him to use the keys which he paid for at home while he's in France or Germany. See how well that works.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
As far as I can tell their csm support is ok. And I put more faith in them than in some "no-name" company also running a garage digital store if you know what I mean.

I'd rather have my own disks to install from, which I can take with me anywhere and which are my property in my possession - than have all those products which I rightly paid for accessible at the whim of one company. If I'm going to have to deal with digital stores, then I am safer in dealing with many small ones than with putting all my eggs in one basked. Basic risk management.

As for their customer service, I can't comment on your experiences. My experiences with their customer support have been entirely negative. Emails unanswered, clueless tech support bods and bugs which they have dozens of reports on but refuse to admit exist (Steam bugs, not that of the games). Good for you. We don't have similar experiences.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 5/30/2012 8:07:45 PM >

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

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Post #: 18

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 9:16:17 PM

Falokis

Posts: 144
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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319847883/stardrive-a-4x-action-strategy-game-for-the-pc?ref=category

I'm watching this one. You can never have too many 4x spaces games

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 19

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 9:23:16 PM

malkuth74

Posts: 115
Joined: 3/27/2010
Status: offline

Steam would be better then the service they use now. Thats for sure.. At least you can download your games when you want on steam.

(in reply to Falokis)

Post #: 20

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/30/2012 10:33:40 PM

Kordanor

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/28/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Hrmm - I'll have to reconsider my contribution through Kickstarter. I was under the impression that it would be released DRM-free. If they are going to require the installation of spyware like Steam, then I'll wait for Razor1911 to fix that.

I guess you need to think about what options there are. It seems like what you wish is a link in the internet where you can download a game from without having an account. This is, for obvious reasons, not possible in most cases.
As you need to create an stardock account to play GalCiv2, that's also a DRM.
Personally I don't consider Steam a DRM. It becomes a DRM in the Moment, where I buy a Box and need to register on steam in order to use my product on my CD.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Going back to your original statement, you stated - "But if you want to "forbid" other users to use steam, not so much."

There was a reason I used ""
Discussing on that does not much sense, lets stick to the other parts.

quote:

Completely irrelevant. You are still within the same region. Europe is one region. Use your Steam key in Brazil or Japan, and that would be a relevant test of region restrictions. Or find a visiting Russian, and ask him to use the keys which he paid for at home while he's in France or Germany. See how well that works.

While I can't say that this is true or not it just makes sense. Pricing World Wide is dependent on the local wealth and standards. Prices in EU and US are higher than they are in China or Russia. If there were not region locked, that would mean that either everyone would buy in China as it's cheaper there (China pricing) or nobody would buy it in china as nobody can pay for it over there (Western Pricing).
Yes, it can be a pain in the ass, especially between US and EU, but globally it is necessary.

So my question to you: How would you like to buy your game? Why would you rather register on two small shops and buy the game there instead of buying the game in one big shop? Why do you call the one DRM and not the other?
Is a CD-Key not a DRM for you?

And my initial question/statement still stands:
-The additional option of steam would make sense (even though Solops and Kayoz said that in this case the devs would lose them as customers).
-The current price is insane :P

I was hoping for speculations like the one from WiZz It's possibility to set inadequate price for their games. Steam sets clear gradation for game pricing..
At Spiderweb they said something similar. But there it sounded more like that steam is "strongly recommending" it.

< Message edited by Kordanor -- 5/30/2012 10:34:37 PM >

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 21

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 4:00:48 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
I guess you need to think about what options there are. It seems like what you wish is a link in the internet where you can download a game from without having an account. This is, for obvious reasons, not possible in most cases.

Your assumption is completely contrary to my statements. I said - quite specifically - that

I'm opposed to requiring a connection to the company servers to install the game

I'm opposed to a DRM that stops my game from working because I've moved

I'm opposed to a purchasing a game that will not work if the distributor goes under

With my DW copy I have burned onto a CD, I lose nothing if Matrix goes under. If I move, my game still works. If I want to install it on a computer which specifically doesn't have any Internet connection, it works.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
Personally I don't consider Steam a DRM.

That's the whole point of Steam. You later go on to argue that Steam's region pricing and region locking are fine - though those are key elements of DRM.

I suggest you jump into the Wikipedia talk page for Steam, as the first line describes it as DRM. Then contact the numerous game review sites that identify - pro or con - Steam as DRM. And contact Forbes, as their writer is identifying Steam as DRM.

I'm not sure what you consider DRM to be, but it's clearly contrary to that of most of the Internet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
There was a reason I used ""
Discussing on that does not much sense, lets stick to the other parts.

You also used "deny choice". But sure - I've pointed out the absurdity of your argument. Your argument is in tatters. Let's move on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
While I can't say that this is true or not it just makes sense. ... Yes, it can be a pain in the ass, especially between US and EU, but globally it is necessary.

Hold on - you said above that Steam is not DRM. Yet here you assert that there is a business need for DRM and that Steam's policies are reasonable.

If Steam isn't DRM - as you state above - what the heck IS it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
So my question to you: How would you like to buy your game? Why would you rather register on two small shops and buy the game there instead of buying the game in one big shop?

Registration of my game to purchase it is irrelevant. That I get the game is relevant.
That I am forced to maintain a relationship with the seller long after our transaction is done (such as Steam requires) - relevant.
That the seller requires the installation of software that invades my privacy - but which I must install to use my purchase - is relevant.

If I buy my car at the Ford dealership - my business is done with them from that point. I can get my car serviced where I wish. I can make modifications as I wish. If something I do is contrary to Ford's wishes, the stick they wield is negating my warranty - but the car still works, regardless. And if Ford goes out of business - my car continues to putter away so long as I maintain it.

Oh, and Ford doesn't snoop around my car whenever it wants. Ford doesn't get to see where I drive, what I do or how I use the car.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
Why do you call the one DRM and not the other?
Is a CD-Key not a DRM for you?

Did I ever claim that a CD-key is not DRM? No. You're fabricating or attributing statements to me that I never made.

But yes, a CD-key is DRM. I'm not entirely opposed to DRM. It's the manner in which Steam enforces their DRM which I am opposed to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
And my initial question/statement still stands:
-The additional option of steam would make sense (even though Solops and Kayoz said that in this case the devs would lose them as customers).
-The current price is insane :P

If I have a choice, then fine - if I can choose to buy DW without Steam's spyware and unreasonably restrictive DRM, then I have no complaint. If DW is release exclusively with Steam's spyware - then I'll take my business elsewhere. Though by your previous statements, I'm somehow imposing my choice on others...

As to DW pricing - only Erik Rutlins can answer that. I've already commented on my belief that (Matrix) they aren't helping themselves with their current pricing. But it's a free market.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
I was hoping for speculations like the one from WiZz It's possibility to set inadequate price for their games. Steam sets clear gradation for game pricing..

Pricing and revenue split are aspects that Steam is quite silent on. I suspect that Matrix's decision not to use Steam's service has more to do with those policies - which are not published and all companies seem to be bound to NDA with.

But again - you'd have to take it up with Erik. We can only speculate.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 5/31/2012 4:13:36 AM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 4:20:25 AM

Kordanor

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/28/2012
Status: offline

Most of the posting is nitpicking now. I wrote "Personally" and "consider"..
on the other side you approved

quote:

I agree 100%. Anyone who sells on Steam loses me as a customer.
Ditto to that.

but well, lets not go into discussions about whether the sun is always shining even if clouds are in the sky. :P

However I think you can use steam download the game and set steam to offline mode. Whether or not you can copy games straight from steam to a different folder is specific to the game itself.

You don't like steam for your reasons. I love steam for my reasons. Whether we understand each others reasons or not.

However additional options are (almost) always a good thing.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 23

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 4:34:51 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
However I think you can use steam download the game and set steam to offline mode. Whether or not you can copy games straight from steam to a different folder is specific to the game itself.

If Steam goes out of business, and my computer crashes (once again) or I buy a new computer, I can't install the games which I paid for. Offline mode is not an option for installation - which I have repeatedly asserted as one of the key elements of my distaste for Steam.

I'm not aware of any games from Steam that you can download and install locally - without connection to Steam servers to activate the game. Can you provide an example?

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Post #: 24

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 6:05:29 AM

WiZz

Posts: 372
Joined: 9/28/2011
From: Ukraine
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
I'm not aware of any games from Steam that you can download and install locally - without connection to Steam servers to activate the game. Can you provide an example?

SOTS2, for example.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 25

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 7:03:18 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
I'm not aware of any games from Steam that you can download and install locally - without connection to Steam servers to activate the game. Can you provide an example?

SOTS2, for example.

Wrong.

SOTS2 installation requires that you install Steam and connect to their server.

If Steam goes out of business, you will not be able to install SOTS2 again. If you move to another region and buy a new computer, you will not be able to install.

I can install DW from my optical backups if I move to Brazil, Russia or the moon. I install from my files, enter my key and voila - I'm up and running. Can you say the same for SOTS2?

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 5/31/2012 7:06:20 AM >

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Post #: 26

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 8:23:53 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kordanor
Most of the posting is nitpicking now. I wrote "Personally" and "consider"..

Interesting how that you call it "nitpicking". Your arguments get ripped to pieces, suddenly it's "nitpicking".

You stated that my choice to not purchase a Steam-infected game is "forbidding others", that my choice "denies choice" to others. I assure you that I'm not that influential. You may safely put aside your fears. But somehow, given the fear you have of my marketing might, I'm... nitpicking.

You claim I made a statement that CD-keys are not DRM, which I refute and challenge you to point to a message where I stated what you claimed. Despite your fabricated claim, my challenge is... nitpicking?

You interpret my "ditto" comment in the most strict terms. And somehow I'm the one nitpicking?

You evade legitimate questions, you ignore comments which rip the foundations of your arguments, you apply the most strict interpretation of one word - without bothering to ask for clarification - and when that doesn't work - you try to fabricate comments.

And ... I'm the one who's nitpicking?

_____________________________

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Post #: 27

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 10:45:02 AM

Kordanor

Posts: 22
Joined: 5/28/2012
Status: offline

quote:

Wrong.

SOTS2 installation requires that you install Steam and connect to their server.

If Steam goes out of business, you will not be able to install SOTS2 again. If you move to another region and buy a new computer, you will not be able to install.

I can install DW from my optical backups if I move to Brazil, Russia or the moon. I install from my files, enter my key and voila - I'm up and running. Can you say the same for SOTS2?

Cant you copy your whole steam folder? Some years ago I moved the complete folder from C to E without any big problems (but I guess that depends strongly on the installed games). So basically you cannot backup the installer, but you could backup the installed program.

quote:

You evade legitimate questions, you ignore comments which rip the foundations of your arguments, you apply the most strict interpretation of one word - without bothering to ask for clarification - and when that doesn't work - you try to fabricate comments.

Ditto.

quote:

And ... I'm the one who's nitpicking?

That's why we are nitpicking. And these two lines represent the whole discussion which is therefore - pointless. I won't reply to these parts any further and I hope you do the same.

< Message edited by Kordanor -- 5/31/2012 10:59:14 AM >

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 28

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 2:29:59 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: malkuth74

Steam would be better then the service they use now. Thats for sure.. At least you can download your games when you want on steam.

I can re-download from Matrix any time I want. This is a non-existent issue.

Also with the ability to still have a DVD shipped physically to my home, having to DL again becomes a complete non-issue. I just slide the DVD into my DVD-rom if for some reason I need to re-install.

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Post #: 29

RE: Plans for Steam? Price Reductions? - 5/31/2012 3:11:14 PM

WiZz

Posts: 372
Joined: 9/28/2011
From: Ukraine
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Wrong.

SOTS2 installation requires that you install Steam and connect to their server.

If Steam goes out of business, you will not be able to install SOTS2 again. If you move to another region and buy a new computer, you will not be able to install.

I can install DW from my optical backups if I move to Brazil, Russia or the moon. I install from my files, enter my key and voila - I'm up and running. Can you say the same for SOTS2?

You are wrong totally. SOTS2 can be launched without running steam.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 30