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- 12/9/2002 10:23:01 AM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ross Moorhouse
[B]

I will not standby and see my testers accused unfairly like this dpstafford. You have put words into my posts by saying I have told customer to drop dead. Now this.

You have no idea the number of hours these guys have put into this game. Time that came from their free time. How dare you accuse the testers. When you have no idea what goes on in the background. These guys are some of the best that I have ever worked with. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well said

_____________________________

I shall make it a felony to drink small beer.

- Shakespeare

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 121
- 12/9/2002 10:39:11 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ross Moorhouse
[B]I will not standby and see my testers accused unfairly like this dpstafford. You have put words into my posts by saying I have told customer to drop dead. Now this.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. I have already achieved my goal of not letting Matrix support sweep the latest bugs under the rug, so I will be more than happy to claim up and see what happens.

As for the effectiveness of that support, the results speak for themselves (and were well summarized by Wolftrap in a previous post).

_____________________________


(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 122
- 12/9/2002 11:32:08 AM   
Ross Moorhouse


Posts: 2354
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Hey you started the pissing contest. You are the one that comes here and flames us. Have you put your hand up to help test via the open beta?

We don't sweep bugs under the rug.

_____________________________

Ross Moorhouse

Project Manager
www.csosimtek.com
Email: rossm@csogroup.org

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 123
- 12/9/2002 1:52:26 PM   
rawink

 

Posts: 194
Joined: 4/30/2002
From: Tallahassee, FL
Status: offline 		Ross, 90%+ of us are behind you guys.. don't lower yourself to this guys level. It isn't worth it to get frustrated over the minority.

you guys have proven time and time again you will do all you can to support us.

1 bad egg keeps turning up over and over again.. and this is the type of person who will complain about everything. He probably sends letters to the Transportation department, explaining why red, green, and yellow traffic lights arent the best choice of colors.

so don't get your feathers ruffled. He is "Keeping you from sweeping bugs under the rug".. LOL WHAT BUGS?

how about you just stuff it and back off a bit and let these guys do their jobs instead of just sitting here complaining.

and I AM a Tester, not a UV tester, but if you said something like that about the game I am testing I would be highly offended. It isnt easy, and can be very frustrating in the early stages. So step off buddy. :mad:

_____________________________

Robert
Fly, die.. rinse and repeat

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 124
- 12/9/2002 6:57:54 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by dpstafford
[B]
I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. I have already achieved my goal of not letting Matrix support sweep the latest bugs under the rug, so I will be more than happy to claim up and see what happens.

As for the effectiveness of that support, the results speak for themselves (and were well summarized by Wolftrap in a previous post). [/B][/QUOTE]

I don´t know from what you make up your positions but it seems you talk too much to yourself or so. Please give me one, just one example where we tried to sweep bugs under the rug, will you? Actually Mike fixed bugs that you guys never got aware of ;), so much for the sweeping. You personally have achieved .... , since it´s our own policy from day one on to answer requests and care about bugs.

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
instagram stream

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 125
- 12/9/2002 8:19:42 PM   
HannoMeier


Posts: 155
Joined: 8/5/2001
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		Come on, Dan do not be that quick on the trigger. Matrix is constantly improving the game and I highly appreciate that. (I recommended UV to all my friends).

We have just stopped our game - and I will resume as soon as my little fighters stand a chance against medium and heavy US bomber intruders.

Because of the short timeline, I could understand that 2.11 was not fully tested by the playtesters. Otherwise they must have recognized the very high loss rate of Jap fighters against US bombers. I found that in my first turn played in 2.11

Matrix, this game is great and your support is great!!!

Hanno

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 126
- 12/9/2002 10:54:42 PM   
TIMJOT

 

Posts: 1822
Joined: 4/30/2001
Status: offline 		Oh come on dpstafford. Sweep under the rug?When, where, how???:confused: Matrix was on this recent air combat problem well before you belatedly chimed in. In fact as far as I can tell Matrix has been on every "CORROBORATED" bug since version 1. So please spare us your self important " I accomplish my mission stuff". Thank god we have you to protect us from bad ole Matrix:rolleyes: GIVE ME A BREAK!

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 127
- 12/14/2002 9:49:59 AM   
worr

 

Posts: 901
Joined: 2/7/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by dpstafford
[B]I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. [/B][/QUOTE]

Sounds like cover for someone who just did. :(

Worr, out

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 128
- 12/14/2002 10:28:39 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by worr
[B]Sounds like cover for someone who just did.[/B][/QUOTE]
You're about fours day late, there, Bruno......

_____________________________


(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 129
- 12/14/2002 10:38:43 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]I have already achieved my goal of not letting Matrix support sweep the latest bugs under the rug[/QUOTE]

You certainly DID NOT achieve this my friend. Matrix addressed the bugs because they care about the quality of the product and about giving their customers the best possible game to play.

For myself, I would be quite happy if you decided this game was unpalyable and left the rest of us who know that isn't the case to enjoy the experience.

Do not flatter yourself that your contribution to this game and this discussion has been in any way constructive or productive. You sir, are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Do us all a favour and go back to the art of war forum where your hyperbole, half truths and self-righteous nonsense may be appreciated.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 130
I Agree - 12/14/2002 10:55:17 AM   
designer1

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 8/24/2002
Status: offline 		Hear! Hear! Well said, I Christie.

People who have never worked in the game industry may not appreciate how difficult a thing it is to beta test a game with this level of complexity, and how difficult it is to change anything in the program while avoiding unintended consequences.

Such people may also fail to appreciate that in the end this is a labor of love; God knows no sane person would do it for what most game designers and producers get paid. As for beta testers, payment is usually at best a discount on a product or two, if even that. And the time required is enormous.

If you want perfect product, go play first person shooters. Max Payne was a great one and there wasn't much there for the designers/programmers/testers to get wrong. If you want something that even approaches a mathmatical simulation of a war as complex as WWII in the Pacific, keep riding this horse. It's as close as I've ever seen anyone come, and the level of committment to the final product is beyond any in my 33 years of experience as a gamer, designer, developer, and fan.

Well done, Matrix.

Well done indeed.

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 131
- 12/14/2002 10:58:54 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IChristie
[B]You certainly DID NOT achieve this my friend. Matrix addressed the bugs because they care about the quality of the product and about giving their customers the best possible game to play. [/B][/QUOTE]
I have never questioned Matrix' concern or effort, only the results. The fact that well after the games' release and several patches they have had to resume large scale public BETA testing is evidence enough of problems. It is also evidence that Matrix is determined to correct those problems and support their products.

Your SIMPLISTIC "part of the solution/part of the problem" nonsense is just that.

_____________________________


(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 132
- 12/14/2002 11:11:19 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Once again you overestimate your own importance and underappreciate the complexity of the problem. I think you will find that the main reason Matrix "resorted" to a public beta was to free up the test team to work on WITP.

This is not to take away from the fine efforts that the "public" testers have been putting in, but bringing those guys in was not in any way a commentary on the ability of the beta test team to find and resolve problems with the game.

The aspersions you cast on the test team are every bit as unwarranted as Ross maintains.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 133
- 12/14/2002 11:27:19 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by IChristie
[B]Once again you overestimate your own importance and underappreciate the complexity of the problem. I think you will find that the main reason Matrix "resorted" to a public beta was to free up the test team to work on WITP.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to take any credit for forcing a BETA (perhaps that was a poor choice of words on my part many days ago). As someone who works on complex software for a living, I know the pitfalls as well as anyone.

Unfortunatly, my IJN PBEM opponent does not share your view that the game is currently playable. He refuses to submit more turns until the next patch is out, and I don't blame him in the least for his position. If you can't see a problem then you are probably playing with yourself, er, I mean, against the AI. Anyway, I'm sure that a few more pats on the back will make everything all better.

_____________________________


(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 134
- 12/14/2002 11:30:14 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Well this exchange has obviously served to accomplish little more than to continue the myth of your own importance. Feel free to have the last word. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Off to continue to work on the next game you will play and claim to hate.

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 135
- 12/14/2002 9:59:24 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		I´m honored to close the first thread in the UV forum.

It´s far away from any contructive critism or solutions and developed into "I know better then you" battle.

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
instagram stream

(in reply to CapAndGown)
Post #: 136
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