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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon

 
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RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/1/2013 1:56:01 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

they die like flies every time you engagé the allied navy (especially in DBB where the allied flak is tremendously effective).


I think the new scenarios updated with the last official patch also correct the flak ratings?

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Post #: 3301
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/1/2013 1:58:36 PM   
GreyJoy


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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'd still be throwing Kamikazes into the mix here, GreyJoy. You're fastidiously ignoring this very capable weapons system at heavy cost to your other branches of service.

Also, keep the big picture in mind. It's March 1944 and he's not even taken Timor? He's waaaayyyy behind schedule. You're doing what you're supposed to.



Agree Chicken. But it's too early to convert too many sentais to Kamikaze. Remember that it's a one way trip: once converted they cannot do anything else...
And in march 1944 i simply do not have enough sentais to spare. Fighters Sentais are needed to guard my bases (especailly now that B29s, with their huge range, are arriving on the scene).
Those sentais that are not needed in the front lines are training pilots like mad and God knows how i need trained pilots now.

I only have 2 Oscar Sentais converted to Kami at the moment. But cannot really spare more.
In 10 days i should be able to finally field the first 5 Sentais of Peggy-T with trained pilots in NavT.... this should give the Navy a bit of breath ...hopefully


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3302
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/1/2013 2:07:51 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		March 8, 9, 10 1944

After the battle of the 7th, QBall got aggressive and move all his CVs next to Bima (South of Makassar), clearly looking for my CVs...
Thanks God my platforms moved away towards Batavia (also avoiding all those pesky subs !), out of range.
The Allies launched a strike against my shippings at makassar, finding a small CAP of 40 N1K2s and Tojos.
We downed 56 among Hellcats and SDBs, losing just 10 Georges, but 10 xAPs, 2 AOs and some PBs got sunk....

At the same time the allied APAs retired from Roti... and one of my midjet subs got a field day, placing 2 torps into an LSI

Roti got conquered the very same day by the allied invasion force (no time to send there anything Pax, and we do not do night bombing so my Nells are now used ONLY for Naval search duties)

Pantar was conquered the following day after a huge bombardment

Now the allied CVs got back to Darwin, while mine reached Singapore to rest a bit and reload torps, planes and fuel.

My Last CV arrived at Kobe, while all my damaged ships reached the assigned shipyards for repairs.

So we've lost 4 CVEs, 4 CVLs and 2 CVs in the last month...heavy losses but my fighting force is still able to compete.

Timor is now completely lost and circled, but we're succesfully extracting also the 38th Div from Lautem... which is real good! Only 1 Division will be left back at Koepang... the rest has been succesfully evacuated Now the second line is ready.


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3303
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 8:25:38 AM   
GreyJoy


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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

they die like flies every time you engagé the allied navy (especially in DBB where the allied flak is tremendously effective).


I think the new scenarios updated with the last official patch also correct the flak ratings?


I've tried the new files in my other game and, after 3 months of gameplay, we switched back to the old DBB files. The a/c new values are too favourable for Japan and I won't propose them to Brad.
But I haven't seen any evidence that the allied flak is too effective compared to RL in the old DBB... in fact the allied flak SHOULD be deadly as it is right now (and I mean before the new files).
Is there any comprehensive note of the modifications made by JWE to flak in the new files?


(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 3304
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 8:30:52 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		March 11, 1944

KB safely reaches Singapore.
We refilled all our air groups with planes and pilots. Will give Shokaku a couple of days of repair time (need to lower some
Sys damage points before taking the waters once again).

CV Ikoma will wait for the Kongo and the Amagi to repair at Kobe before sailing for the DEI.

I think in 1 month i'll be able to get the KB in strength to be able to face the allied DS once again.

In the meanwhile the allied CVs remain at Darwin.

The second defensive line is now ready. He'll need quite an effort to penetrate towards Mindanao.

No evidence of anything moving in the pacific. The Mariannas are ready. The Bonis are getting ready too. Now time to prep for Formosa and Okinawa

From Ramree Is. the allied army is moving east. The 55th Division is waiting for them at the rivercrossing

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3305
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 11:10:09 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I only have 2 Oscar Sentais converted to Kami at the moment. But cannot really spare more.
In 10 days i should be able to finally field the first 5 Sentais of Peggy-T with trained pilots in NavT.... this should give the Navy a bit of breath ...hopefully


Have you fielded those 2 sentai more than once? I recall seeing them applied to one battle, but nothing since. You should have hundreds of pilots and airframes that can be fed into that sentai bottleneck still, no? Sure, it's less than 100 kamikazes, but I still would be using them as part of your balanced offensive diet.

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Post #: 3306
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 11:12:10 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
we're succesfully extracting also the 38th Div from Lautem... which is real good! Only 1 Division will be left back at Koepang... the rest has been succesfully evacuated Now the second line is ready.


Excellent! Where are you extracting them to? Is air transport working well for you in this capacity?

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Post #: 3307
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 1:13:51 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I only have 2 Oscar Sentais converted to Kami at the moment. But cannot really spare more.
In 10 days i should be able to finally field the first 5 Sentais of Peggy-T with trained pilots in NavT.... this should give the Navy a bit of breath ...hopefully


Have you fielded those 2 sentai more than once? I recall seeing them applied to one battle, but nothing since. You should have hundreds of pilots and airframes that can be fed into that sentai bottleneck still, no? Sure, it's less than 100 kamikazes, but I still would be using them as part of your balanced offensive diet.


I've used them in 3 situations.
In the last battle I only had one Sentai available cause the other one was refitting at Sosarbaja after the last (failed) attempt to use it during the invasion of Namlea (when the CV-CV battle occurred).
I think I mentioned... however the Kamis went for the CVs south of Roti and got shaddered by the CAP. Not a single one survived. Moved them back to Sosarbaja and is now refilling with Oscars IIIa.

Pilots aren't a problem, even if I would like to preserve all those 70+ LowN pilots for when i'll have masses of Kamikaze Sentai to use them at once

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Post #: 3308
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 1:17:50 PM   
GreyJoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
we're succesfully extracting also the 38th Div from Lautem... which is real good! Only 1 Division will be left back at Koepang... the rest has been succesfully evacuated Now the second line is ready.


Excellent! Where are you extracting them to? Is air transport working well for you in this capacity?



It's working great the air lift so far. I'm using Emily-L in places where the strip is closed (Roti was an example), while the WHOLE transport air army (both IJA and IJN) when the fields are left open, like at Lautem, Dili or Alor.

So far we've been able to exctract:
38th Div and the 2nd Area Army HQ from Lautem
A mixed Bde from Dili
A mixed Bde from Alor
the 77th Regiment from Roti
3 regiments from Saumlaki
They are now moving (by air transports or by fast PBs) from Kendari-Makassar back to Mindanao line.
I'll need some more time, obviously, to rebase them all, but the whole process went pretty smoothly

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Post #: 3309
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 1:23:17 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Clearly most of the heavy equipment had to be left back and also 2 tank regiments are left back to rot, but if QBall wants those bases he will have to destroy them, so i'll be able to buy them back.
However it feels good to have saved all those men from a useless defeat. I've already experimented the mistake of being bypassed... at Hollandia-Rabaul-Bouganville I've lost some 5 divisions worth of troops without even using them...
Won't make that mistake again

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Post #: 3310
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 2:36:08 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'd still be throwing Kamikazes into the mix here, GreyJoy. You're fastidiously ignoring this very capable weapons system at heavy cost to your other branches of service.

Also, keep the big picture in mind. It's March 1944 and he's not even taken Timor? He's waaaayyyy behind schedule. You're doing what you're supposed to.



Agree Chicken. But it's too early to convert too many sentais to Kamikaze. Remember that it's a one way trip: once converted they cannot do anything else...
And in march 1944 i simply do not have enough sentais to spare. Fighters Sentais are needed to guard my bases (especailly now that B29s, with their huge range, are arriving on the scene).
Those sentais that are not needed in the front lines are training pilots like mad and God knows how i need trained pilots now.

I only have 2 Oscar Sentais converted to Kami at the moment. But cannot really spare more.
In 10 days i should be able to finally field the first 5 Sentais of Peggy-T with trained pilots in NavT.... this should give the Navy a bit of breath ...hopefully




Oscars and zeros make poor Kamikazes. Since the warhead matters, you need to use aircraft that carry bombs big enough to damage carriers and BBs. Kamikaze attacks like to target BBs and carriers. For the most part the oscars just bounced off my ships. Useful vs CVEs and lighter vessels but there is little guarantee that they will attack the right ship. You need Judys, Jills, Graces, Peggys and Francis for effective kamikaze attacks.

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Post #: 3311
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 3:06:06 PM   
koniu


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From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

You need Judys, Jills, Graces, Peggys and Francis for effective kamikaze attacks.

All those planes except Peggy are navy planes. Army is limited to planes using 250kg bombs until early/middle `45 when Ki-115 arrive with 800kg bomb.

When we look at pilots pools army need to be used as kami even if they will use only 250kg bombs. Having navy alone in kamikaze role will drain pilot pool very fast. Aslo navy is not able to trai them fast enough.

< Message edited by koniu -- 12/2/2013 4:07:05 PM >

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Post #: 3312
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 5:00:49 PM   
GreyJoy


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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

You need Judys, Jills, Graces, Peggys and Francis for effective kamikaze attacks.

All those planes except Peggy are navy planes. Army is limited to planes using 250kg bombs until early/middle `45 when Ki-115 arrive with 800kg bomb.

When we look at pilots pools army need to be used as kami even if they will use only 250kg bombs. Having navy alone in kamikaze role will drain pilot pool very fast. Aslo navy is not able to trai them fast enough.



Mr.Sutton, I think koniu is dead on spot here.
Japan faces a dilemma in 1944/45 (in a scen2 environement): we have LOTS of army pilots but not decent Army planes to conduct a decent anti-Naval campaign.
At the same time we have the good anti-naval planes for the Navy, where there are never enough pilots to fill them.

So, as Koniu says, Japanese player has to do what he can with what he can, so to say use Army fighters and bombers as Kami, even if their warheads are limited.

Me, I have made another big mistake: haven't invested anything in the KI-115...so now I'm stuck with the Peggy-T for the Army as the only frame that can actually cause some problems to the allied shippings.

The bulk of my anti-naval effort will still be carried on by IJN. Have no choices unfortunately.

Army Kamis will help, surely, but not yet. I'm saving them for when i'll really need them...



Now it's time to retreat from Burma I guess. I'm too exposed there and I need to re-allocate my divisions.

What do u all think about Burma? In few months the Thai army will withdraw and i'll be even more stretched than now in Burma...with the risk of being bypassed by an allied landing.
At the same time if I concede Burma for free i'll expose Thailand HI to his bombers...

What should I do?

I'd like to have some of those divisions digging in in Luzon by now...not there at the edge of the Empire... but I see the risk of having a Rangoon in allied hands... every single AF from HK to Brunei to Singa to Palembang will be at risk...

What to do?

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 3313
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 7:44:52 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Well, strat bombing of Thailand or not, the Allied player has so much sea-lift capacity that you will need to review every point on the map for the risk of an Allied flanking attack that will trap thousands of your good troops. You are going to have to shorten you lines and it is better to do it before he is behind you and dictating the action. If he gets a strong position in the Philippines or DEI. Then the whole of SE Asia becomes a very big potential trap. One big landing at say, Hanoi or along the coast of China at Paktoi and everything in SE Asia is trapped as there is really only one route out and he will be sitting on it. The toughest part for the Japanese player is when that point is reached in the campaign where the Allies have so much force that they can choose virtually any point on the map to attack. You might cause some ships to be sunk but you won't be able to stop his landings. Choosing where to stand and fight in the last year of the war is almost an impossible task.

At some point there becomes no greater trap for Japan than trying to hold Rangoon. It is so easy to go around and cut off. Ark waited too long in our game and it cost him at least a dozen divisions.

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Post #: 3314
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/2/2013 7:56:01 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

You need Judys, Jills, Graces, Peggys and Francis for effective kamikaze attacks.

All those planes except Peggy are navy planes. Army is limited to planes using 250kg bombs until early/middle `45 when Ki-115 arrive with 800kg bomb.

When we look at pilots pools army need to be used as kami even if they will use only 250kg bombs. Having navy alone in kamikaze role will drain pilot pool very fast. Aslo navy is not able to trai them fast enough.


The Frances and Peggy (T) only carry 2 x 250kg + 4 x 50kg, while the Peggy gets 3 x 250kg. Graces are the same load as an Oscar, 2 x 250kg.

Hopefully the 2E is modeled by the kami calculation, thus making a bigger bang, but that hasn't been my experience so far.

The major difference in the late game for naval strikes of any kind is the speed/durability relationship, especially with enhanced flak in the beta or DBB. The best Oscar IV still has very low durability at 23 and 364mph. The 2E planes are not as fast but have very high durability at 38 and 325mph for the P1Y2 and 41 and 334mph for the Peggy Ia (T) and Ib.

The D4Y4 Judy with it's massive 800kg load is low durability at 26 but higher speed at 350. The Grace doesn't have the big bomb but is better at 30 durability and 352mph.

The best of the bunch might be the Ki-102b with 36 durability and 360 mph, but only the 2 x 250kg. Or the Frank 'a' at 30 and 392mph and 2 x 250kg.

In general it'll be tougher to get massive strikes against the big flak wall with less coordination in the beta.

You will be able to train a lot more IJN pilots in early 45, if it still matters then, as the training groups are fantastic. You get a bunch of them and they train faster than normal groups, I swear.

_____________________________

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Post #: 3315
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 9:23:13 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		March 12, 1944

The allies are on the move once again!
a HUGE fleet of CV/BBs just departed from Darwin and are reported south of Timor. APA and landing crafts are with them, moving west. My bet? They are landing in one of the islands between Java and Timor recently evacuated by Jap troops.
Can't do much about it and it was a well foreseen move.

The KB is warming its engines at Singapore, ready to come in. Makassar, Kendari and Sosarbaja airfields are ready. Tanaka's fleet (2 Fuso Class BBs, 3 Agano CLs, 6 old CLs and 15 modern DDs) are moving from Menado to Makassar....another clash of Titans on the orizont?


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3316
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 9:31:27 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, strat bombing of Thailand or not, the Allied player has so much sea-lift capacity that you will need to review every point on the map for the risk of an Allied flanking attack that will trap thousands of your good troops. You are going to have to shorten you lines and it is better to do it before he is behind you and dictating the action. If he gets a strong position in the Philippines or DEI. Then the whole of SE Asia becomes a very big potential trap. One big landing at say, Hanoi or along the coast of China at Paktoi and everything in SE Asia is trapped as there is really only one route out and he will be sitting on it. The toughest part for the Japanese player is when that point is reached in the campaign where the Allies have so much force that they can choose virtually any point on the map to attack. You might cause some ships to be sunk but you won't be able to stop his landings. Choosing where to stand and fight in the last year of the war is almost an impossible task.

At some point there becomes no greater trap for Japan than trying to hold Rangoon. It is so easy to go around and cut off. Ark waited too long in our game and it cost him at least a dozen divisions.


I agree and I've been thinking a lot about that.
I decided to start a slow and orchestrated retreat. The RTA divisions will act as a screening force, while the bulk of the 15th Army will abandon slowly northern Burma. The 21st Army will defend Lashio area for the moment, while the 25th Army will keep the allies busy on the western front (Akyab and Ramree). We will slowly get back to Mandalay area until the Monsoon season starts.
At the same time the 16th and 48th Division will move back to Moulmein-Pegu sector, while the rest of the troops will slowly crawl back to Rangoon.
The idea is to abandon Burma by summer 1944. Thailand, in the meanwhile, will be fortified and garrisoned.
I'm not that ready yet cause there are very few decent AFs built in central Thailand...but the risk of having 3 armies cut off in Burma is too great to be taken.
Am now saving PPs in order to buy out another division from China to be brought to Malaya. 1 Air HQ and 5 Base forces are enroute from Tokyo to Saigon.


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 3317
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 9:36:19 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

quote:

You need Judys, Jills, Graces, Peggys and Francis for effective kamikaze attacks.

All those planes except Peggy are navy planes. Army is limited to planes using 250kg bombs until early/middle `45 when Ki-115 arrive with 800kg bomb.

When we look at pilots pools army need to be used as kami even if they will use only 250kg bombs. Having navy alone in kamikaze role will drain pilot pool very fast. Aslo navy is not able to trai them fast enough.


The Frances and Peggy (T) only carry 2 x 250kg + 4 x 50kg, while the Peggy gets 3 x 250kg. Graces are the same load as an Oscar, 2 x 250kg.

Hopefully the 2E is modeled by the kami calculation, thus making a bigger bang, but that hasn't been my experience so far.

The major difference in the late game for naval strikes of any kind is the speed/durability relationship, especially with enhanced flak in the beta or DBB. The best Oscar IV still has very low durability at 23 and 364mph. The 2E planes are not as fast but have very high durability at 38 and 325mph for the P1Y2 and 41 and 334mph for the Peggy Ia (T) and Ib.

The D4Y4 Judy with it's massive 800kg load is low durability at 26 but higher speed at 350. The Grace doesn't have the big bomb but is better at 30 durability and 352mph.

The best of the bunch might be the Ki-102b with 36 durability and 360 mph, but only the 2 x 250kg. Or the Frank 'a' at 30 and 392mph and 2 x 250kg.

In general it'll be tougher to get massive strikes against the big flak wall with less coordination in the beta.

You will be able to train a lot more IJN pilots in early 45, if it still matters then, as the training groups are fantastic. You get a bunch of them and they train faster than normal groups, I swear.



Imho the Kamikazes need to be used primary to soak up CAP's op points and AA ammos. If you are blessed with 2 days-battle, the Kamis will eventually be able to die in droves (and maybe score some useless hit) but making the CAP more fatigued and the AA to be used en masse, thus leaving space for a second day conventional strike.
I've seen that once the major AA ammos are gone, the conventional attacks still work wonders if you can pass through the CAP screen.
Then it's all about coordination (hard) and some luck(even harder!)


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3318
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 9:37:41 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		GJ,

Are you sure its meaningful to try and resist smaller landings at this point? I think the only chance you have at this point to slow Q-Ball down is to nail assault troops for a major objective. He most likely know you have evacuated these places right? So he is going to go in with just enough to grab the base. Even if you do manage to sink the transports its not going to chance much. He will just load up other troops most likely already prepped for the same place and go in again.

Isn´t it better to preserve your strength to try against a major landing instead? Each time you wreck you strike planes and lose a couple of ships you get a little weaker. Hitting his APA/AKAs isn´t going to change anything at this point. The floodgates are already open and he is swimming in them.

I bet Q-ball would love a huge battle over some smaller islands right now. Not much in it to lose for him. But everything for you! Don´t wreck yourself over something unimportant (in the larger scheme of things).

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3319
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 9:48:53 AM   
GreyJoy


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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

GJ,

Are you sure its meaningful to try and resist smaller landings at this point? I think the only chance you have at this point to slow Q-Ball down is to nail assault troops for a major objective. He most likely know you have evacuated these places right? So he is going to go in with just enough to grab the base. Even if you do manage to sink the transports its not going to chance much. He will just load up other troops most likely already prepped for the same place and go in again.

Isn´t it better to preserve your strength to try against a major landing instead? Each time you wreck you strike planes and lose a couple of ships you get a little weaker. Hitting his APA/AKAs isn´t going to change anything at this point. The floodgates are already open and he is swimming in them.

I bet Q-ball would love a huge battle over some smaller islands right now. Not much in it to lose for him. But everything for you! Don´t wreck yourself over something unimportant (in the larger scheme of things).




You are right Joc. And I need to think about it. To be honest I'm not aiming at the transports anymore at this point.
Brad loves to do island hopping, thus risking very little in terms of troops (as you say). Very often he even uses waves of barges not to risk his transports
but I'd love to cause some more havoc to his CVs. A damaged CVs in the DEI means she'll be out of the war for some 4/6 months (time to ship her back safely to Sydney at least)...
If he has hordes of APAs, he doesn't yet have the superiority in terms of CVs he will have in 6 months from now.
If I'm not mistaken he's now short of 6 CVs (4 sunk and 2 badly damaged), 3 CVLs, 21 CVEs and 41 CA/CLs. He's not yet overwhelming me.

But you're right. I need to be cautious...

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 3320
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 10:53:42 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I didn´t realize Q-ball lost that much. Are you sure they are sunk? I´ve managed to save CVs/CVLs and even CVEs from what looked to be certain doom. "Heavy damage, Heavy fires". Even ammo explosions!

If you did managed to sink that much...Wow! That should put him a good 6 months behind at least.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3321
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 9:51:36 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I didn´t realize Q-ball lost that much. Are you sure they are sunk? I´ve managed to save CVs/CVLs and even CVEs from what looked to be certain doom. "Heavy damage, Heavy fires". Even ammo explosions!

If you did managed to sink that much...Wow! That should put him a good 6 months behind at least.


"SURE" you are never sure, but i'm certain to have sunk 4 CVs and 2 are damaged. That's for sure.
The CVEs should all be goner. Maybe one or two may have been saved but not more than that.
The CA/CLs should all sunk for real... while i've sunk very few DDs.......and lost 90 of mine!!



MARCH 13, 1944

Allied CVs are still South of Timor...possibly supporting some more landings at Roti (base forces and engineers maybe?). Good... more time for me.

More base forces are enroute for Luzon and Thailand, while the first phase of retreat from northern Burma has begun...unmolested for the moment.

At Ramree Is. the enemy shows a movement Arrow towards Burma. Two divisions are now waiting for them in the jungle hex east of ramree. Should be fun.

Fragments of heaby artillery units are saved from the Marshalls... they are now enroute for Luzon and the Mariannas. Good.

Supplies keep on being low. Especially in Burma. Need to shrink my perimeter also to save some supplies. long communication lines also mean more fuel to be spent to feed the men at the front...and i need to start saving now.

Tavoy, Mergui and Moulmein each will get a reinforced Division. forts are already up to 4 or 5. need to get to 6. Chang-Mai already has a division and Reaghen will get a mixed bde.
Will probably regroup my 4 Tank Division into a single Tank Army in Java. Have something in mind....

Also thinking about abbandoning Biak area. If i do things right i can possibly save 3 divisions from that area... need to think about that

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 3322
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 9:53:59 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Just checked Tracker... the Whole Burma area has less than 40K supplies...jeezzzzzzz!!! I am pretty sure that two weeks ago they were 80K... what the hell are my boys eating!?!? 10 ratios at day!?!?!?

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3323
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 10:08:38 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline 		I haven't really read much of this AAR but I'm wondering why you think that the 250 kg bomb is such a limitation in naval strike missions? I know it won't do much to any ship with armor on top which means its pretty useless against battleships, cruisers, and British carriers but that still leaves destroyers, troop ships, and most importantly US CVs. Troop ships especially are vulnerable to those 250 kg bombs when you fly in low enough if you manage to get through CAP somehow. You'd probably have a lot of issues with the AA of US CVs if you fly in low but if you manage to get a few lucky hits on the deck of a carrier and get some SYS damage to prevent his planes from flying that could have a decisive impact on day 2+ of an engagement. And as Kamikaze's I would imagine they would have a similar effect. I agree it's not ideal, but when used properly the 250kg bomb (or 500 lb bomb for the Allies) can be a deadly weapon.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3324
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 10:14:31 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

I haven't really read much of this AAR but I'm wondering why you think that the 250 kg bomb is such a limitation in naval strike missions? I know it won't do much to any ship with armor on top which means its pretty useless against battleships, cruisers, and British carriers but that still leaves destroyers, troop ships, and most importantly US CVs. Troop ships especially are vulnerable to those 250 kg bombs when you fly in low enough if you manage to get through CAP somehow. You'd probably have a lot of issues with the AA of US CVs if you fly in low but if you manage to get a few lucky hits on the deck of a carrier and get some SYS damage to prevent his planes from flying that could have a decisive impact on day 2+ of an engagement. And as Kamikaze's I would imagine they would have a similar effect. I agree it's not ideal, but when used properly the 250kg bomb (or 500 lb bomb for the Allies) can be a deadly weapon.



Agree. Probably we're all too focused in "sinking" allied major ships, thus forgetting that we are in mid 1944. A damaged ship, in mid 1944 in the middle of the DEI and with the closest shipyard at Sydney (a little one indeed) is Worth just as much as a sunk ship.
Also a Kamikaze, even with just 2x250kg bombs, can wreck havoc among the CVE fleet. And God knows the allies still needs all the CVEs they have in order to advance safely

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 12/4/2013 11:18:03 PM >

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 3325
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/4/2013 10:28:35 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline 		Not to mention I think by 1944 that any surface ship which doesn't carry troops or planes for the Allies is of limited importance anyway. As Japan in 1944 your goal is to disrupt an delay amphibious landings as much as possible which requires vastly different tactics than trying to go out and sink the Allied navies. The decisive battle doctrine should not be your strategy unless you want to see the Japanese fleet getting to know the coral reefs on the bottom of the ocean better :)

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3326
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/5/2013 2:36:29 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

I haven't really read much of this AAR but I'm wondering why you think that the 250 kg bomb is such a limitation in naval strike missions? I know it won't do much to any ship with armor on top which means its pretty useless against battleships, cruisers, and British carriers but that still leaves destroyers, troop ships, and most importantly US CVs. Troop ships especially are vulnerable to those 250 kg bombs when you fly in low enough if you manage to get through CAP somehow. You'd probably have a lot of issues with the AA of US CVs if you fly in low but if you manage to get a few lucky hits on the deck of a carrier and get some SYS damage to prevent his planes from flying that could have a decisive impact on day 2+ of an engagement. And as Kamikaze's I would imagine they would have a similar effect. I agree it's not ideal, but when used properly the 250kg bomb (or 500 lb bomb for the Allies) can be a deadly weapon.



Agree. Probably we're all too focused in "sinking" allied major ships, thus forgetting that we are in mid 1944. A damaged ship, in mid 1944 in the middle of the DEI and with the closest shipyard at Sydney (a little one indeed) is Worth just as much as a sunk ship.
Also a Kamikaze, even with just 2x250kg bombs, can wreck havoc among the CVE fleet. And God knows the allies still needs all the CVEs they have in order to advance safely



Agreed, I can attest that the Allied plans "must" include taking an advance shipyard as soon as possible. Kamikazes are the reason for this..Singapore, Manila, or Hong Kong-one of them must be in the bag or the kamikaze problem can overwhelm you.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3327
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/5/2013 2:38:31 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Not to mention I think by 1944 that any surface ship which doesn't carry troops or planes for the Allies is of limited importance anyway. As Japan in 1944 your goal is to disrupt an delay amphibious landings as much as possible which requires vastly different tactics than trying to go out and sink the Allied navies. The decisive battle doctrine should not be your strategy unless you want to see the Japanese fleet getting to know the coral reefs on the bottom of the ocean better :)



True, but you have to blunt the Allied CV and CVE force or you won't see much of an opportunity to go after Allied transports.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 3328
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/5/2013 3:01:25 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

I haven't really read much of this AAR but I'm wondering why you think that the 250 kg bomb is such a limitation in naval strike missions? I know it won't do much to any ship with armor on top which means its pretty useless against battleships, cruisers, and British carriers but that still leaves destroyers, troop ships, and most importantly US CVs. Troop ships especially are vulnerable to those 250 kg bombs when you fly in low enough if you manage to get through CAP somehow. You'd probably have a lot of issues with the AA of US CVs if you fly in low but if you manage to get a few lucky hits on the deck of a carrier and get some SYS damage to prevent his planes from flying that could have a decisive impact on day 2+ of an engagement. And as Kamikaze's I would imagine they would have a similar effect. I agree it's not ideal, but when used properly the 250kg bomb (or 500 lb bomb for the Allies) can be a deadly weapon.



Agree. Probably we're all too focused in "sinking" allied major ships, thus forgetting that we are in mid 1944. A damaged ship, in mid 1944 in the middle of the DEI and with the closest shipyard at Sydney (a little one indeed) is Worth just as much as a sunk ship.
Also a Kamikaze, even with just 2x250kg bombs, can wreck havoc among the CVE fleet. And God knows the allies still needs all the CVEs they have in order to advance safely



Agreed, I can attest that the Allied plans "must" include taking an advance shipyard as soon as possible. Kamikazes are the reason for this..Singapore, Manila, or Hong Kong-one of them must be in the bag or the kamikaze problem can overwhelm you.


Or even Saigon, though you can't get BBs up the river. Manila starts out as a rather small SY (smaller than Saigon), but it's still better than nothing.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 3329
RE: DEFEAT: The battle of Ambon - 12/5/2013 3:44:51 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
True, but you have to blunt the Allied CV and CVE force or you won't see much of an opportunity to go after Allied transports.

Well in my current game as the Allies I just had a CVE fleet obliterated by 250 kg bombs exclusively with more than a few sunk so I'm pretty confident 250 kg bombs can do the job here.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 3330
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