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RE: LOST VICTORIES

 
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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 10:02:30 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		"Small" just because if my CVs did launch all their planes, i could have sunk all those BBs, CLs and the APAs that escaped... But, don't get me wrong: i'm happy with the results!

Now it's time to deal with the CVE/CVLs parked near Ndeni....

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1921
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 10:11:12 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

"Small" just because if my CVs did launch all their planes, i could have sunk all those BBs, CLs and the APAs that escaped... But, don't get me wrong: i'm happy with the results!

Now it's time to deal with the CVE/CVLs parked near Ndeni....


Indeed, that was a serious smackdown....and with virtually no losses on your side.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1922
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 10:14:15 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		A screenshot that explains the strategy behind the ambush...PATIENCE




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1923
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 10:16:50 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

"Small" just because if my CVs did launch all their planes, i could have sunk all those BBs, CLs and the APAs that escaped... But, don't get me wrong: i'm happy with the results!

Now it's time to deal with the CVE/CVLs parked near Ndeni....


Indeed, that was a serious smackdown....and with virtually no losses on your side.




The battle isn't over yet. Till now, Luck has been on my side...finger crossed for the second part

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1924
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 10:20:52 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Wow...that is mind-numbingly cool. I have to install that. How did you sit at Sorong for 60 days and not get spottted by a search B-24 or something?

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1925
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 11:06:39 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		May 2, 1943

Ok, i transformed a victory into a defeat.
4 CLs and 3 DDs sunk for no gain... he created an impenetrable screen of PTs...My BBs lost all their ops point against them while the CLs passed through...and got smashed

The operation is over. 4 CLs and 3 modern DDs lost really really hurt... but hey, that's war..

His B25s arrived strafing and put 3 bombs on 1 CVE and 1 CVL.... damn

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1926
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 11:22:26 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Yet, the classic defintion of victory is to retain possession of the field of battle at the end of the fight. In that sense you can claim victory.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1927
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 11:22:48 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		We're now retiring...but we have another problem: the enemy is moving lots of troops with flying boats to Moe... which is damned too close to Lautem!!!

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1928
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 11:23:48 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Yet, the classic defintion of victory is to retain possession of the field of battle at the end of the fight. In that sense you can claim victory.



Thanks Cap!
A but or morale boost that's what i need!

Now Brad has managed to retire all his assets back to Darwin...

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1929
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 11:52:51 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		May 02, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Selaroe at 77,119, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Kuri
DD Tsuga
DD Kiku

Allied Ships
LCT-66, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
LCT-67, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LCT-150
LCT-156, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
LCM 542E
LCVP 542F, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
621 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 26 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Babar at 76,119, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Agano
CL Yura
CL Kinu
CL Oi
DD Kiyonami
E Hato
E Sagi
E Kari
E Kiji
E Kamo
CL Teshio

Allied Ships
LCT-326, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
LCM 542D, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LCVP 542R, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LCVP 592R, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
SC-521, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
400 casualties reported
Squads: 15 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Ouch!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 76,121, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Agano, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Yura, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
CL Kinu
CL Oi, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Kiyonami
E Hato
E Sagi
E Kari
E Kiji, Shell hits 1
E Kamo
CL Teshio, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Colorado, Shell hits 2
BB Royal Sovereign
BB Ramillies, Shell hits 2
CL Java, Shell hits 2
DD Cony
DD Taylor
DD Bancroft
DD Hughes
DD Aylwin
DD Worden, Shell hits 1
DD Van Nes

Reduced visibility due to Rain with 3% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Rain and 3% moonlight: 5,000 yards
Range closes to 23,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 23,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 17,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 5,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 5,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Babar at 77,118, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Hatakaze
DD Shiokaze
DD Yakaze
DD Hokaze
DD Nokaze

Allied Ships
PT-37
PT-38
PT-39
PT-40
PT-42
PT-46
PT-74, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PT-118


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 78,121, Range 3,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu
CL Kuma
CL Tama
DD Nowaki
DD Arashi
DD Hagikaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Ayanami

Allied Ships
LCT-60, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LCT-65, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
LCT-128, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
LCT-129, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
LCVP 532F, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
142 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 33 (19 destroyed, 14 disabled)
Vehicles lost 14 (7 destroyed, 7 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 78,121, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu
CL Kuma
CL Tama
DD Nowaki
DD Arashi
DD Hagikaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Hatsuyuki
DD Ayanami

Allied Ships
PT-257, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT-258
PT-259
PT-260
PT-261
PT-262
PT-263
PT-264
PT-298
PT-299
PT-301
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 77,121, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CA Takao
CA Kumano
DD Murasame
DD Yamakaze
DD Hatsuharu
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima

Allied Ships
PT-62
PT-65
PT-166
PT-167
PT-168
PT-170
PT-171
PT-188
PT-190
PT-191
PT-196
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Bathurst Island at 77,121

Japanese Ships
SS RO-67

Allied Ships
APA John Penn, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

SS RO-67 launches 2 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 77,123, Range 17,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 1
CL Kuma
CL Tama, Shell hits 7, on fire
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 2, heavy fires
DD Arashi
DD Hagikaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Hatsuyuki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Ayanami, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CL Leander, Shell hits 1
DD Chevalier, Shell hits 1
DD DeHaven
DD Nicholas, Shell hits 1, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 78,122, Range 17,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 5, on fire
CL Kuma, Shell hits 2
DD Arashi, Shell hits 1
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Tanikaze
DD Hatsuyuki, on fire
DD Ayanami, on fire

Allied Ships
CA Chicago, Shell hits 2
CL Honolulu, Shell hits 3
CL Nashville, Shell hits 4
DD Morris, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Helm
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Shaw
DD Reid, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 78,121, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CA Takao
CA Kumano
DD Murasame
DD Yamakaze
DD Hatsuharu
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima

Allied Ships
PT-62
PT-65
PT-166
PT-167
PT-168
PT-170, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-171, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-188
PT-190
PT-191
PT-196
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 78,121, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CA Takao
CA Kumano
DD Murasame
DD Yamakaze
DD Hatsuharu
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima

Allied Ships
LCT-150, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
LCM 542E, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
180 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 77,121, Range 19,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Yura, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
DD Kiyonami, Shell hits 18, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Chicago, Shell hits 1
CL Honolulu
CL Nashville
DD Helm, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Ralph Talbot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Selaroe at 77,120, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Kinu
E Hato
E Sagi
E Kari
E Kiji
E Kamo
CL Teshio

Allied Ships
PT-37, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
PT-38, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-39
PT-40, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-42
PT-46
PT-74, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-118, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 77,123, Range 19,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Tama, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
DD Nowaki, Shell hits 3, heavy fires

Allied Ships
BB Colorado
BB Royal Sovereign, Shell hits 1
BB Ramillies
CL Java
DD Cony
DD Taylor
DD Bancroft
DD Hughes
DD Aylwin
DD Worden
DD Van Nes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Bathurst Island at 77,123, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Nowaki, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
PT-126
PT-176
PT-220
PT-225
PT-226
PT-227
PT-228
PT-229
PT-230
PT-231
PT-232
PT-233


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st USMC Parachute Battalion, at 74,116 (Moa)

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 40
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied ground losses:
40 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Saumlaki , at 78,117

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 22

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 8
F4F-4 Wildcat x 6
SBD-3 Dauntless x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 3 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kai-eilanden at 81,116

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
A6M5 Zero x 74

Allied aircraft
Beaufort VIII x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort VIII: 3 destroyed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Dobo , at 83,116

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19

Allied aircraft
Hudson III (LR) x 9
B-17E Fortress x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson III (LR): 2 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 3


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Dili , at 71,115

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 16
Beaufighter VIc x 32
B-17E Fortress x 14
B-17F Fortress x 14
B-24D Liberator x 15
B-24D1 Liberator x 37

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 3 destroyed on ground
D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 4 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 27
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 65

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kai-eilanden at 81,116

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 73

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu
CVE Taiyo, Bomb hits 1
DD Amatsukaze
CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing and strafing from low level
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Akagi-1 with A6M5 Zero (9 airborne, 12 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 11000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 8 minutes
Kaga-1 with A6M5 Zero (4 airborne, 4 on standby, 4 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 38500.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
Hiryu-1 with A6M5 Zero (5 airborne, 11 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 11 minutes
Shokaku-1 with A6M5 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000
Raid is overhead
Zuikaku-1 with A6M5 Zero (9 airborne, 7 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
Soryu-1 with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters to 5000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 5 minutes




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Saumlaki at 79,118

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 20

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 11
F4F-3 Wildcat x 12
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10
TBF-1 Avenger x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CL Teshio
CL Kinu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 75,46 (near Chungking)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 39290 troops, 423 guns, 209 vehicles, Assault Value = 1151

Defending force 21007 troops, 48 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 10

Japanese adjusted assault: 976

Allied adjusted defense: 16

Japanese assault odds: 61 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
79 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2084 casualties reported
Squads: 126 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 306 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 4

.....FINALLY we're starting to reduce this stack!!!


Assaulting units:
39th Division
27th Division
35th Division
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
13th Army
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
71st Chinese Corps
30th Chinese Corps
85th Chinese Corps
8th Route Army
51st Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
1st Group Army



(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1930
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 11:55:26 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Ok guys...time to retire and R&R. I need to regroup, send some ships back to repair yards, some back for upgrades...my air groups need to rest and refill their ranks...my subs need rest too...

But the enemy is still there...very close...and he's getting stronger every day...and where are his CVs?.... MY bet? PERTH...too many radio messages intercepted recently....

Those CLs will be missed... but his landing troops must be in a very bad shape now...those who survived!

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1931
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/27/2013 11:57:30 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Your Penguin Admiral now needs some sleep...

Night guys. It's been an exciting night

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1932
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 12:03:16 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Kai-eilanden at 81,116

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 73

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu
CVE Taiyo, Bomb hits 1
DD Amatsukaze
CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing and strafing from low level
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb


Wow! Amazingly effective attack by 6 unescorted B-25's. Those boys are dy-no-MITE! He has been training them for a bit. Amazing they even took off without escort like that. He has evidently created an elite skip-bombing B-25 squadron.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1933
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 12:09:31 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Well done, GJ. Shame about the weather but that's life.

Were the B-25s skip bombing? Might explain the hits.

KB didn't launch again on day two? I would have thought that surface force that smacked your CLs would be dead meat come daylight.

_____________________________


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1934
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 5:57:25 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Kai-eilanden at 81,116

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 73

Allied aircraft
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D1 Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Soryu
CVE Taiyo, Bomb hits 1
DD Amatsukaze
CVL Ryuho, Bomb hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-25D1 Mitchell bombing and strafing from low level
Naval Attack: 6 x 500 lb SAP Bomb


Wow! Amazingly effective attack by 6 unescorted B-25's. Those boys are dy-no-MITE! He has been training them for a bit. Amazing they even took off without escort like that. He has evidently created an elite skip-bombing B-25 squadron.


After i find that my opponent is training his bomber pilots in low naval attack i always keep some planes on low CAP. Maybe You do so and it was just bad luck. But for me low CAP is working well. Also having at lest one fighter units at CAP with range 0 i making CAP more efficient.
May you give as rest of rapport how CAP was behaving. How many planes in air, how many scrambling, interception time, attitude etc. I hope ships are ok.

EDIT:
Any of Your ships in that TF have radar? I learn that Radar (especially that allied one) is big game changer for CV defense.
In April all Japanese CVs and CVLs get radar. But You know all of that



< Message edited by koniu -- 1/28/2013 6:08:15 AM >

_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1935
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 7:00:35 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		May 3, 1943

As we retire, we managed to avoid most of his dreaded subs that are infesting those waters. My CVs are still covering the retreat of the main fleet (lots of damaged slowed warships to sheperd) so we are still at max alert.
In this turn we both licked our wounds with the enemy 4Es that, for the first time in months, stopped their daily runs.
Near Rabaul our other CVs retire, but a pesky sub managed to torpedoe a Fubuki Class DD.......i'm losing way too many DDs...more than 33 till now...can't stand these numbers!!!

Koniu, yes, i had 37 zeros on 0 range at 4000...didn't work. They scrambled but got to the B25s too late!
I had 2 CVs with radars and 5 DDs equipped... but at those low altitudes japanese radar is pretty useless

Hard to say how performed my CAP... it wasn't really engaged in numbers, so this couldn't be a real test.


The good thing about this whole operation is that i managed to resupply Saumlaki with 8000 supplies...badly badly needed. Also Koepang recieved 50,000 supplies and Ambon some more 30,000... enough for the next 2 months.


So what's next now? Well, hard to tell...i need to track the enemy CVs first... dispacted my glenn-equipped subs once again to scout Western Oz and SOPAC....

1 CV and 3 CVLs are ready at Tokyo, fully upgraded, along with 15 DDs and 2 CAs. These guys will move to CENTPAC and 1 CV+1CVL+2CVEs will get back to HI to get their upgrades.

The CVL and the CVE hit yesterday can still make 20 knots, so they aren't in danger...if the enemy subs don't get them first!

LBA bombers and fighters are recombining...slowly we'll get back to a full operative mode...however the pressure is rising.

Now it's time to reinforce Sumatra and Thailand. Troops are already loading at Singapore.

1 HQ Air Flottilla is moving to Ponape. It will be used to create a torpedo coverage of Kusiae Island and the whole SE approaches to Truk.


(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 1936
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 7:01:45 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Well done, GJ. Shame about the weather but that's life.

Were the B-25s skip bombing? Might explain the hits.

KB didn't launch again on day two? I would have thought that surface force that smacked your CLs would be dead meat come daylight.



Yes, they were skip bombing Crib...as Cap said, it was an amazing perfomance by those B25s... and a scary one too!
And yes, KB didn't launch for two days in a row... bugger

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 1937
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 9:07:53 AM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		One thing I find irritating, but I am probably wrong here, is to see PTs cross 200 miles of open water, including some real ocean stuff, quite deep, to go and fight in ennemy waters.

Some experts here will probably correct me and tell me this is historical, and I suppose so many RL advantages of the allies are not implemented in the game that it all balances out in a sense, but still..

I would just think it natural for PTs to have a radius from a friendly base of say 3 hexes where they can cross ocean hexes, and otherwise be limited to shallow waters, something like this.

Did PTs really just cross taht type of water like that ?

Anyway great Ambush Greyjoy, too bad the weather wasn't with you...

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Post #: 1938
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 10:52:15 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

One thing I find irritating, but I am probably wrong here, is to see PTs cross 200 miles of open water, including some real ocean stuff, quite deep, to go and fight in ennemy waters.

Some experts here will probably correct me and tell me this is historical, and I suppose so many RL advantages of the allies are not implemented in the game that it all balances out in a sense, but still..

I would just think it natural for PTs to have a radius from a friendly base of say 3 hexes where they can cross ocean hexes, and otherwise be limited to shallow waters, something like this.

Did PTs really just cross taht type of water like that ?

Anyway great Ambush Greyjoy, too bad the weather wasn't with you...



Well, i agree on general terms. PTs should be allowed only in shallow waters... but the code allows them to move just like any other TF and they have enough endurance to be able to move easily up and down from Darwin to Lautem...
I have to admit that against Rader i used them very effectively sending them from Lunga up to Shortland Island... so i cannot really complain now if i got treated with the same medicine

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 1939
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 10:55:25 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Wow...that is mind-numbingly cool. I have to install that. How did you sit at Sorong for 60 days and not get spottted by a search B-24 or something?



Well, i've spent several hours and turns looking for a dead spot in his search arcs...and, once found, i've done everything i could to create smoke and mirrors in order to make him believe the whole KB was somewhere else (the CVTF at Rabaul had to be big enough to be believed as the KB... 4 CVs, 2 CSs, 5 BBs, several CA/CLs and 24 DDs...enough to mislead his catalina pilots)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1940
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 11:31:18 AM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

One thing I find irritating, but I am probably wrong here, is to see PTs cross 200 miles of open water, including some real ocean stuff, quite deep, to go and fight in ennemy waters.

Some experts here will probably correct me and tell me this is historical, and I suppose so many RL advantages of the allies are not implemented in the game that it all balances out in a sense, but still..

I would just think it natural for PTs to have a radius from a friendly base of say 3 hexes where they can cross ocean hexes, and otherwise be limited to shallow waters, something like this.

Did PTs really just cross taht type of water like that ?

Anyway great Ambush Greyjoy, too bad the weather wasn't with you...



Well, i agree on general terms. PTs should be allowed only in shallow waters... but the code allows them to move just like any other TF and they have enough endurance to be able to move easily up and down from Darwin to Lautem...
I have to admit that against Rader i used them very effectively sending them from Lunga up to Shortland Island... so i cannot really complain now if i got treated with the same medicine


I don't have a problem with PTs travelling a fair bit as long as they do it on shallow waters, ie up and down the Solomons or east-west along the Babar to Java route.. What I have a problem with is their crossing of 120 to 160 miles of deep water with no land in sight..

Well I suppose if you are ok with it, fair enough, and it might look a bit sore loser to point it out to QBall now.. although with the supplies and AS issues in this mod, you are at more than an disadvantage compared to stock...

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(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1941
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 11:34:10 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		All well done with this defensive stand. Every time he comes you'll lose something Japan can't afford to lose, but if you keep trading that material for time and the ability to further back-load your defensive positions, it should be worth it. Much worse is to lose nothing and have two Allied bases capable of building to level 8 fields in 4E range of Balikpapan and Soerabaja.

Not only will it take a while for him to gather another bunch of troops and transports capable of this kind of move, this could really make him think twice about doing anything on the cheap again. And in that way you may have stopped several moves with one defensive stand. He also has to wonder a bit more about what he's seeing with naval search and recon. Keep up the deception! The more smoke and mirrors you can create the fewer DDs you'll need. (At least that's what I keep telling myself. I'm up to 42 lost now, but in 1/44. Too many!)

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Post #: 1942
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 1:15:36 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

I don't have a problem with PTs travelling a fair bit as long as they do it on shallow waters, ie up and down the Solomons or east-west along the Babar to Java route.. What I have a problem with is their crossing of 120 to 160 miles of deep water with no land in sight..


Let try and understand ..do you believe this was an imposed policy of WWII or phyisically impossible? Because depth of the waters has nothing to do with the phyisical possibility of a PT boat floating/sailing .. people sail the ocean blue in one man sail boats and quite successfully

The PT boat historically stayed close to shore because of a limited fuel supply .. not because as soon as they got into ocean waters some disaster would occur . unless your cut in half by a IJN destroyer ...

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Post #: 1943
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 2:04:22 PM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

I don't have a problem with PTs travelling a fair bit as long as they do it on shallow waters, ie up and down the Solomons or east-west along the Babar to Java route.. What I have a problem with is their crossing of 120 to 160 miles of deep water with no land in sight..


Let try and understand ..do you believe this was an imposed policy of WWII or phyisically impossible? Because depth of the waters has nothing to do with the phyisical possibility of a PT boat floating/sailing .. people sail the ocean blue in one man sail boats and quite successfully

The PT boat historically stayed close to shore because of a limited fuel supply .. not because as soon as they got into ocean waters some disaster would occur . unless your cut in half by a IJN destroyer ...


It's more of a question. What I meant is that I kind sort of understand them traveling a fair bit on shallow waters along island chains, as I can rationnalize that imagining small fuel/supply dumps on the coast, a bit like Coastwatchers. Something too small to be deemed a base but that the engine could rationalise that way.

But in ocean hexes obviously you can't rationalise it that way. I don't know, what is your take on it ? Again if everybody is fine with it than cool, I am not an expert at all, it just looks/feel weird to have PTs tangling with jap BBs 200 miles north of their nearest base after having cross a big body of deep water.


< Message edited by veji1 -- 1/28/2013 2:07:32 PM >

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Post #: 1944
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 3:03:54 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		PT boats as amphibious assault convoy escorts.

I think that is an LST in the foregroud. This was in NW New Guinea. Naturally, they weren't expecting heavy opposition.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 1945
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 3:33:11 PM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		Sure, but than in Nw NG this would be the typical coast hugging / base or island hoping use of PTs with which I have no issue what so ever.

My point is that PTs should be a massive PITA in the Solomons or for example here, once the allies had secured a base or two in the island chain. But coming all the way from Darwin seems a bit far fetched...

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Post #: 1946
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 3:52:52 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		GJ,

The B-25D1 is classified in-game as Attack Bomber. That means that when set to 5,000ft or less it will use 'low' skills and (AFAIK) automatically drop down to strafe flak and such.

The various altitudes versus attack profiles versus skills used got revamped a number of patches ago. Nowadays you really have to train the crews on 'low' to have Attack Bombers be effective, otherwise they have to go up where the 4EB play.

Expect more of same.

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(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 1947
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 4:41:10 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		PT Boats are a PIA for the Japanese. Once they have a close base the Allies can produce an almost unlimited number of them. The only real cure is DD's and that is something GJ does not have a lot of. waves of these pests just chew up ammo and ops points

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(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1948
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 8:14:49 PM   
artuitus_slith

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 11/22/2009
Status: offline 		I can't speak on pt boats in particular, but I am a fisherman (do it for a living), and I can tell you that boat size isn't the limiting factor in traveling the oceans, fuel is. So assuming the pt boats could refuel under way, they could conceivable cross the entire pacific from SF to Tokyo or even farther. The only other limiting factor would be weather, severe weather could swamp the pt boats, and I'm not sure the game models weather effects on any ship at sea other than cold weather zones. Speaking from experience, I've fished as far out as 400 miles from port on a 48ft trawler for 8-14 days at a time, in good weather and not so good weather, and I'm here to write about it. :) Just something to think about.

edit: Another thing to keep in mind is that the PT boats primary advantage was surprise. It was small, and against the back-drop of an Island were had to detect both visually and on radar. Once in the open water the PT boats lose this advantage, and their only advantages are speed and maneuverability, And if you are busy dodging gunfire it's hard to aim a torpedo straight enough to hit anything. Torpedoes of WW2 ran in a straight line, and had to be aimed in such a way as to intersect with a ships projected path. It would be virtually impossible to properly aim a torpedo while weaving and dodging to avoid gunfire, and as a result pt boats that lost the element of surprise were not very effective. This is why pt boats generally hugged the shore, to prevent early detection, and not because they were incapable of traveling open oceans.


< Message edited by gmoney -- 1/28/2013 8:25:45 PM >

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 1949
RE: LOST VICTORIES - 1/28/2013 9:50:31 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		+ 1 gmoney.

I have moved newly arrived MTBs/MGBs from Karachi to Burma by having them follow a larger ship for refuelling purposes. They had no problems and accumulated less system damage following a slow xAKL than they would cruising at their usual lowest speed.

However, I think the game may model at-sea damage a little differently when in severe storms. Fast ships like DDs and any ship with flotation damage seem to have an increase in damage if there were severe storms in the hex. Certain AMs that bob like corks seem to be nearly immune from at-sea damage.

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Post #: 1950
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