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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 3:04:00 AM

PaxMondo

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By this time (mid 43) I will have functionally converted all of the Nettie groups into Patrol/Recon missions. Rarely use them as them as bombers ... Intel is more valuable than a few bombs. Besides, even Helens are hard to escort to their range, forget Netties.

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Post #: 2041

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 3:08:08 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
The news of the day is that 80 4Es arrived unescorted over Boela. This time, instead of the usual mily run, they found 61 Georges and 8 Tojos waiting for them! The 4Es arrived at 10,000, while the Georges were at 17,000 feet... 4 Georges were shot down (2 KIA), but report says that nearly 40 liberators and fortresses were shot down! That's a great result!!!

That's fantastic! Nice shootin', Tex!

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Post #: 2042

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 3:35:03 AM

crsutton

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No more than six PTs in a single TF and no more than one active PT TF operating out of a single base. This has worked fine for Ark and I for over 1,000 turns. I am the Allied player and it has work very well.

I have a problem with the bait TFs. Done to excess it can border on the gamey. Ark will do it at times but it is not too much of a problem as he does it in moderation. In fact I suspect that when kamikazes become more of a factor in our game, that I will be using small ships and CAP traps for them. So I did not say anything.

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Post #: 2043

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 5:45:34 AM

koniu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
The news of the day is that 80 4Es arrived unescorted over Boela. This time, instead of the usual mily run, they found 61 Georges and 8 Tojos waiting for them! The 4Es arrived at 10,000, while the Georges were at 17,000 feet... 4 Georges were shot down (2 KIA), but report says that nearly 40 liberators and fortresses were shot down! That's a great result!!!

That's fantastic! Nice shootin', Tex!

Congrats. 40 4E is probably not big logistical problem for allies right now but for sure You buy few day to rest yoyr units also next time they will think twice before send unescorted bombers. It should especially help defending areas behind allied fighters range

George looks like best 4E killer in game. With decent pilots, there is no bomber that can defend against it, especially when bombers arrive unescorted. Probably until B-29 arrival N1 and N2 will be enough but after 4/44 IJN need N1K5(or better J7W1 Shinden) to be able to catch up B-29 I cant wait when i my game George enter service.

Can You tell how is looking Your experience when George need to defend against enemy sweep. It should be better from A6M5, but how much? Do he will stand alone or he need Tojo support. How You manage to deal with SR3? Can You tell how many George is able to fly next day after that battle. I hope most of them is still in service?

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Post #: 2044

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 6:14:22 AM

koniu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

By this time (mid 43) I will have functionally converted all of the Nettie groups into Patrol/Recon missions.� Rarely use them as them as bombers ... Intel is more valuable than a few bombs.� Besides, even Helens are hard to escort to their range, forget Netties.

+1
Definitely. Intel is more important. I prefer to have knowledge that enemy invasion is coming 2 or 3 days before they hit beach and use that time to re base short range bombers to area.
Using 2E navy bombers on max range in naval attack will mean only that You losing precious pilots as You can escort them. Enemy will come to You so range is not issue.

Times when Japanese long range navy bombers rule sky over Pacific end when allies start to get all those numerous air group and CVE, and are able to CAP every TF or base close to Your position. And we know how easy is to shutdown Japanese bombers, few gen 1 fighters in air and they are slaughtered.

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Post #: 2045

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 9:24:15 AM

veji1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

No more than six PTs in a single TF and no more than one active PT TF operating out of a single base. This has worked fine for Ark and I for over 1,000 turns. I am the Allied player and it has work very well.

I have a problem with the bait TFs. Done to excess it can border on the gamey. Ark will do it at times but it is not too much of a problem as he does it in moderation. In fact I suspect that when kamikazes become more of a factor in our game, that I will be using small ships and CAP traps for them. So I did not say anything.

True... CAP traps are a part of the game, but they sometimes become pure engine exploitation. At least both sides can do it so I suppose it balances out a bit.

Regarding your PT HR, it sounds good to me. Better than letting 100S of PTs sail away and just have to crawl like snails to their base to refuel... Because then the number issue doesn't get sorted out.

EDIT : Your rule also is an incentive for allies to conquer lots of small bases and established mutually supportive position. Conquer a dot base, build a port 1 with Seabees and boum you get an extra PT TF to play with in the area. Sounds very intuitive to me.

< Message edited by veji1 -- 2/13/2013 9:25:22 AM >

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Post #: 2046

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 9:53:37 PM

GreyJoy

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May 28, 29 1943

I forgot one Nells Group on naval attack and i paid the consequences of my mistake: 18 Nells took off, escorted by 36 Oscars... 30 Oscars and 12 Nells never came back to their base.
What happened? Brad sent several bait TFs to Saumlaki, covered by several CVEs on LRCAP, along with 50 P-38s on the same role... :-(

The following day i sent some subs...we sunk an LST...guess what? Empty...

More naval bombardments at Dobo (near Taberfane)...

Heavy air bombings over terapo, with lots of transports assembling at Horn Island... an invasion?

Air recon over Terapo, Woodlark Island and Shortland... i bet the allies are ready to move with their CVs....

Units are flowing to Western Sumatra, while more support units are reaching Saipan and Ponape.

About the bait TFs CrSutton... i agree. Brad till now hasn't done them to this extent...let's see how it goes. i would hate to ask for another HR...

Vieji... well, let's not ask too much. I'd like to keep this game as it has been so far... meaning a game where each player, before deciding what to do, asks himself if it's kosher towards the other guy. His PTs are now moving up and down...so they're not anymore simply stationing at my bases...which is already something

Tulagi still holds...another deliberate attack was repulsed (1-2), despite heavy air and naval bombings.... this is the spirit of Bushido!!!! BANZAI!!!!

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Post #: 2047

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 10:41:00 PM

artuitus_slith

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Pt boats carried smoke generators, and had established protocol for dealing with attack from A/C. So really, getting 2 per attack is fairly realistic. Japanese A/C surprise the PT boats in the open-get a couple of them, then can't attack anymore due to the smoke screen being laid.

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Post #: 2048

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 10:42:03 PM

GreyJoy

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Koniu, well against sweeps of P-47s or P-38s, the best way to use the N1K1 is imho to keep them below 20,000 feet, packed with Tojos flying a bit higher.
They do ok, but the problem is that the day after more than half of the group is grounded...and when grounded those beasts remain grounded for not less than a week (if you're lucky)...so you always need to have Tojos or Zeros to fill the gap

May 31, 1943

Same as yesterday...Brad keeps on moving his bait TFs around, clearly trying to understand what are my search arcs and my set ranges for naval attack duties.

Lots of shippings are moving from Thousands Ships Bay to Rekata Island (east of Munda)...

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Post #: 2049

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/13/2013 10:53:53 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

By this time (mid 43) I will have functionally converted all of the Nettie groups into Patrol/Recon missions.� Rarely use them as them as bombers ... Intel is more valuable than a few bombs.� Besides, even Helens are hard to escort to their range, forget Netties.

I perfectly agree. And i start converting my Nells from torpedo bombers to patrol planes when i read your comments on another thread. It's a slow process cause i don't have enough good naval search pilots...but i plan to add more 60 Nells to patrol duties in the next months

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 1:59:14 PM

GreyJoy

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June 2, 1943

The war grinds on. The allies have landed unmolested at Abenama and Rekata Bay, while the air offensive against Terapo continues.
In the DEI the bait TFs have gone back to Darwin, while cruisers and 4Es keep on shutting down my bases.
In Burma we ambushed his milky runs once again, shooting down some 80 dive bombers near Katha!

We're reinforcing Bouganville and getting ready to fight for PGN, while more troops are flowing to the Mariannas and the Carolines.

Thailand is recieving the 6th THAI division, recently moved back from Akyab and we're creating a strategic air defence at Singapore.

The Kuriles are getting more supplies but i think they are safe untill 1944.

Convoys of fuel and oil are moving smoothly to HI and back with supplies and troops.

We're getting ready to fall back to our inner defensive perimeterr in CENTPAC, with the Mariannas finally secured.

Enemy recons over Tarawa, ocean island, Rossell island, woodlark island and everywhere in western sumatra...

My main goal now is to avoid any "tunnell strategic vision"

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 2:40:02 PM

obvert

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When you say the Marianas are secured, what does that mean? Is everything in place that you'd like to have there, or just a starting defense on each island building up gradually?

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Post #: 2052

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 2:55:03 PM

Canoerebel

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GreyJoy, I have this vague memory of reading your AAR back in '42....at which time you felt like the wheels were coming off. You were encountering new and unfamiliar obstacles hither and yon and felt pretty stretched in your ability to take on the complexities of Japan in AE....

How do you feel now?

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Post #: 2053

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 3:01:17 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

When you say the Marianas are secured, what does that mean? Is everything in place that you'd like to have there, or just a starting defense on each island building up gradually?

Well, secured against a "coup de main"... Saipan has 1 Army HQ, 1 Air HQ (Army, range 5), 3 base forces with radars, 2 AA units, 1 heavy Arty Rgt, 1 Tank division. (Port 3, AF 5, Forts 4)
Pagan has 1 regiment and 2 base force (forts 3)
Tinian has 2 base forces, a SNLF unit (Port 1, AF 3, forts 3)
Guam has 1 CD unit, 3 base forces, 1 tank regiment, 2 AA units, 1 Arty Bn and 1 Inf Regiment.

With the KB very close and with Wake and Marcus acting as spotters (both with Emilies covering the whole central pacific), i think the allies cannot dare to get there in 1943.

Also consider that with stacking limits Saipan is already full (32,000 out of 35,000) and Guam almost... so i really don't think they can surprise me here.
In a couple of turns of early allert i could rebase there easily 3/400 planes...

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Post #: 2054

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 3:10:42 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

GreyJoy, I have this vague memory of reading your AAR back in�'42....at which time you felt like the wheels were coming off.� You were encountering new and unfamiliar obstacles hither and yon and felt pretty stretched in your ability to take on the complexities of Japan in AE....

How do you feel now?

Well Dan, i remember well that feeling and when it started. t was when i realized that Brad was slowing me down to the point where any so-called "phase II" had become realistically impossible.
I remember when i took Darwin...suffering incrediible losses in terms of ships... then i remember when i found a fortified Cocos Island in front of me and i hadn't the strenght or the supplies to risk another landing adventure... with the amphib bonus expiring...with the allies that didn't show any sign of weakness... with Brad that managed to evade every attack of mine... when i felt always predictable and every move of mine was well parried.

It was hard...especially because i realized all my dreams of glory (India, Australia etc...) were melting like snow in the sun...

But then i think i took the right decision. Decided not to expose to further risks and to start creating a defensive perimeter.
Now that the allies have grown strong i clearly feel the weakness of my means...but i also feel much more confident about my overall strategy. I know i'm gonna lose. That's for sure. But i also know that, having stopped early enough so to avoid any disaster, now my positions are solid and balanced. Which doesn't mean they won't crumble... they will... but Brad will have to sweat for every inch of ground and my goal now is to prevent an istant crumbling of my perimeter... as long as my defensive power will remain credible, i'll remain a steady and tough opponent.

So i feel better now. Also because i proved myself to be able to play Japan until mid 1943 without suffering a major defeat or an economic crush

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 3:14:55 PM

veji1

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Now one of the hardest part of mid war japanese player is to manage to funnel the allied player onto the slowest path of advance. In a sense what he is doing in the Solomons is good for you, it would be nice if he were to invest lots of forces there, but is probably just waiting till he is ready....

And this is coming soon, he should have enough CVs with Hellcats to take on the KB in July/August, from then on he can try a biggish jump. This begs the question are your flanks secured ? Thailand/Sumatra is a must of course and you know it, also he could try to isolate the Marshalls by going higher up. Of course the DEI is still the biggest danger, how are the southern bases of South Sumatra / JAva / BAli going ?

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 3:28:48 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

Now one of the hardest part of mid war japanese player is to manage to funnel the allied player onto the slowest path of advance. In a sense what he is doing in the Solomons is good for you, it would be nice if he were to invest lots of forces there, but is probably just waiting till he is ready....

And this is coming soon, he should have enough CVs with Hellcats to take on the KB in July/August, from then on he can try a biggish jump. This begs the question are your flanks secured ? Thailand/Sumatra is a must of course and you know it, also he could try to isolate the Marshalls by going higher up. Of course the DEI is still the biggest danger, how are the southern bases of South Sumatra / JAva / BAli going ?

The Marshalls? Well, they are not vital. Once Kusiae and Ponape are secured (and they are), Brad can take the whole Marshalls islands if he likes to. They are reasonable garrisoned and he will have to invest a HUGE amount of resources and time to grab them. By the time he has so, i will be repositioned on my inner pacific defensive perimeter.

Thailand is getting secured. Sumatra it is as far as i can (it's huge, as u know)... Southern Java and Bali etc are garrisoned, even if lightly. However i have a considerable force in Java, with lots of shippings at Sosarbaja and Batavia, ready to load units and drop them where needed... so the goal is to prevent him to conquer immediately a base... with a decent garrison and enough forts (as we're seeing at Tulagi where a garrison unit is still holding against a US Divison and an OZ Tank Rgt), it's almost impossible for him to conquer a foothold in my perimeter easily...which gives me time to bring in reinforcements and counterattack.

The other key is the early warning system. I have several patrol units from the Adamans to Sebang, From Padang to Benkoleng, From Batavia to Christmas IO, from Sosarbaja to Timor... plus several Glenn Equipped subs watching the approach routes in the I.O.... he shouldn't arrive unseen.

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 3:58:36 PM

Canoerebel

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Question, then, about stacking limits.

Does it somehow work a major disadvantage to the Allies? IE, if Japan can load up an island up to the max (say, 30k), there's no way for the Allies to mount a 2:1 amphibious assault. The Allies only option is to isolate, bomb and bombard until the garrison is toast. That can be done, of course, though it can be complicated or even suicidal when the KB and LBA are available. If Japan can max out just a few bases, no big deal. But if Japan has the wherewithal to max out many of the key ones, doesn't that really mess up the Allies? In that case, wouldn't it be optimal for Japan to always focus first on neutering China so that more units can be bought to stuff the major island bases?

Just wondering. I'm way to early in my game, and way to unfamiliar with stacking limits, to speak with any kind of authority. So this isn't an accusation or a complaint, but rather just a question of genuine interest.

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 4:38:53 PM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Question, then, about stacking limits.

Does it somehow work a major disadvantage to the Allies?� IE, if Japan can load up an island up to the max (say, 30k), there's no way for the Allies to mount a 2:1 amphibious assault.� The Allies only option is to isolate, bomb and bombard until the garrison is toast.� That can be done, of course, though it can be complicated or even suicidal when the KB and LBA are available.� If Japan can max out just a few bases, no big deal.� But if Japan has the wherewithal to max out many of the key ones, doesn't that really mess up the Allies?� In that case, wouldn't it be optimal for Japan to always focus first on neutering China so that more units can be bought to stuff the major island bases?

Just wondering.� I'm way to early in my game, and way to unfamiliar with stacking limits, to speak with any kind of authority. So this isn't an accusation or a complaint, but rather just a question of genuine interest.

My most recent opponent tried to use this to a great advantage by reinforcing atolls over the stacking limit as he detected my intentions -- i.e bombing and shore bombardment .. however, one thing I noticed the more mouths to feed the faster supply is used and the need to send convoys in to support efforts. Even without overstacking 30K mouths drains a heck of lot of supply that requires constant resupply ... Thus the more IJA out on atolls is more convoys diverted to suppling the Army rather than the homelands ... just a thought for the conversation ...

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 4:46:11 PM

veji1

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Just as in real life, destroying the japanese navy allows the allies to speed up reduction of garrisons by bombing before landing. You do an Iwo after the turkey shoot...Sounds logical to me.

It probably puts a big emphasis on chase and destroy the KB though, as opposed to " I have enough to cover an invasion against the KB, therefore I shall proceed forward".

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 6:01:47 PM

GreyJoy

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Good question Dan.
I don't see those problems thou. I've had experienced the same problem in China and managed to solve it.
Overstacking forces you to really obtain a superiority on the hex. Not in terms on sheer numbers, but in terms of firepower. And forces the attacker to play a battle along more days...as it should be and as it isn't in stock.

You can always overstack when needed...you just need to bring WAY more supplies...but the allies can do it.

However the main rule for me has been in China: if you face a an army of 50000 enemies, in an hex with 50k max limit, you need to maximise your firepower along those limits...and fight on...you have to expect long battles...

remember how long it took me to crank the enemy 40,000 stack in the northern China? That battle took me over one month...and i has the complete air superiority and a force much more superior in terms of quality. Yet he managed to keep on fighting for a very long time...as it should be imho.

The allies need to starve the japanese garrisons, to bomb them to dust and then, only then, to invade.
As they did in RL

Imagina what Tarawa could have been without the massive air and naval bombings and with a fully supplies garrison? Or Saipan? Or Iwo?

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/15/2013 10:53:12 PM

Cribtop

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CR, I would add that as the firepower differential between 1 Allied AV and 1 IJA AV moves in the Allies' favor, it should mitigate that impact.

That said, I will be watching stacking limits AARs with great interest as they move into '43 and '44 to see how it plays out in practice.

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/16/2013 6:37:44 PM

GreyJoy

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June, 07 1943

The allies are estabilishing their supremacy in SOPAC.
A whole regiment of the 37th Div landed at Tabiutea and now many more support units are flowing in.
Tarawa is daily bombed.

In the Solomons the enemy has now a level 1 port and AF at Rekata. Onnekotan Java is daily bombed and will soon be invaded. Shortland is out of order and Munda is isolated and so is Lunga. Tulagi, after a fierce resistance, finally capitulated.

The enemy assembled what seems to be an invasion force 4 hexes west of Terapo (PGN) and a CV TF is escorting it, providing close air support.

Woodlark island is bombed into oblivion and so are Taberfane and Dobo in the DEI.

Lautem has been naval bombed again (we lost the I-157 in the process), while Saumlaki is visited every day by 50 enemy bombers.

Overall the situation doesn't look that fine. The allied steamroller is clearly on the move...and damn it: it moves fast!

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/16/2013 9:40:42 PM

paullus99

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Japanese players get so used to the massive allied leaps - launching themselves into the lion's den, that they forget that over short distances, the allies can develop huge advantages in troops & firepower over short distances very quickly. It doesn't give the Japanese player the opportunity to concentrate - they get overwhelmed at the point of contact very quickly - too quickly for you to react.

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RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/16/2013 11:52:32 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Japanese players get so used to the massive allied leaps - launching themselves into the lion's den, that they forget that over short distances, the allies can develop huge advantages in troops & firepower over short distances very quickly. It doesn't give the Japanese player the opportunity to concentrate - they get overwhelmed at the point of contact very quickly - too quickly for you to react.

Oh you bet it! And Brad is surely doing so... There's now way i can stop him...just look at to what happen this turn:

Jun 08, 43

The allied landed at Terapo and in one single night they managed to unload a whole Aus division and a NZ bde... one single night!!!

We tried to fight him back with our air army...but the planes arrived too late... and then i screwed up the ranges of my 2E bombers and they decided it was better to target the enemy ships heavily defended at Rekata Bay...and got slaughtered...lost more than 150 planes for no gain at all...sure i sunk some APAs and some DDs...but the allied are ashore and they will smash me soon enough

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Terapo (96,127)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

46 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
APA Zeilin
APA Henry T. Allen
APA J. Franklin Bell
APA La Salle
DD Farragut

Allied ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

APA Zeilin firing at 15th Garrison Unit
APA Zeilin fired at enemy troops
APA Henry T. Allen fired at enemy troops
APA J. Franklin Bell fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 5,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 1,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Terapo (96,127)

TF 106 troops unloading over beach at Terapo, 96,127

Allied ground losses:
393 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 64 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 160 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 43 (1 destroyed, 42 disabled)
Vehicles lost 28 (1 destroyed, 27 disabled)

10 troops of a Aus Cmbt Eng 42 lost from landing craft during unload of 2nd Australian Div /1
25 Pounder Gun lost from landing craft during unload of 2nd Australian Div /4
Motorized Support lost in surf during unload of 2nd Australian Div

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Terapo (96,127)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

52 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LSI(L) Australia Star
LSI(L) Dunedin Star
LSI(L) Empire Pride
DD Bulmer

Allied ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

LSI(L) Australia Star firing at Maizuru 4th SNLF
LSI(L) Australia Star fired at enemy troops
LSI(L) Dunedin Star fired at enemy troops
LSI(L) Empire Pride fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 5,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 2,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Terapo (96,127)

TF 157 troops unloading over beach at Terapo, 96,127

Allied ground losses:
146 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 82 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 10 (0 destroyed, 10 disabled)
Vehicles lost 7 (0 destroyed, 7 disabled)

15 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 8th NZ Bde /3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Rekata Bay at 113,134

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
G4M1 Betty x 29
P1Y1 Frances x 14
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 16

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-40K Warhawk x 18
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 9
F4U-1 Corsair x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 7 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed, 20 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed by flak
P1Y1 Frances: 5 destroyed, 3 damaged
P1Y1 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CA Astoria
CL Caradoc
CA Salt Lake City, Torpedo hits 1

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Terapo at 96,127

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 20
D4Y1 Judy x 11
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 27

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 6
P-38F Lightning x 6
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
F6F-3 Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 5 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 3 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38F Lightning: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
APA President Hayes, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Farragut, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Meredith
APA Harris

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Terapo at 96,127

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
A6M5 Zero x 25
D3A1 Val x 65

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 2
P-38F Lightning x 2
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-38F Lightning: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Bulmer, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSI(L) Empire Pride, Bomb hits 13, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSI(L) Dunedin Star, Bomb hits 7, on fire
LSI(L) Australia Star, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Barker, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSI(L) Empire Star, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Terapo at 96,127

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 10
D4Y1 Judy x 20
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 56

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 4 damaged
D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
APA J. Franklin Bell, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
APA Henry T. Allen, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
APA La Salle, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Meredith

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Terapo at 96,127

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-Ia Helen x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-Ia Helen: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
APA Zeilin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
LSI(L) Empire Pride, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Farragut, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSI(L) Australia Star, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

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Morning Air attack on Terapo , at 96,127

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 34

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 6
P-38F Lightning x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
P-38F Lightning: 2 destroyed

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 5

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Morning Air attack on TF, near Terapo at 96,127

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N1 Jill x 72

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N1 Jill: 4 damaged
B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
APA Henry T. Allen, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Meredith
APA President Hayes, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
APA J. Franklin Bell, heavy fires
APA Zeilin, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
APA President Monroe, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
APA Harris, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
APA La Salle, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

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Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Rekata Bay at 113,134

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 29
P1Y1 Frances x 5

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-40K Warhawk x 17
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 8
F4U-1 Corsair x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 8 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CA Salt Lake City
xAK Yunnan, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
PT-153
CL Caradoc
xAK Kauri
PT-152
xAK Yochow, Torpedo hits 1
DD Grayson

The southern PGN is lost and so are the Solomons... not exactly a good day. I had hope those APAs could take at least one full day to unload... but in the morning they were already empty... my only hope was to catch some of those troops still aboard...but now...a full 1943 AUS division and a NZ bde? Against a Garrison unit and a SNLF small unit? ...we're already dead meat

(in reply to paullus99)

Post #: 2065

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/17/2013 12:11:59 AM

Cpt Sherwood

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline

I'm not sure how others feel, but if I was the Allied player I would not consider that a good turn. That is a lot of good APAs and LSI(L)s lost.
I see about 12 - 14 APA types lost and some combat ships that probably will not make it. I think you had a fairly good turn GreyJoy.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2066

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/17/2013 12:38:37 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

I'm not sure how others feel, but if I was the Allied player I would not consider that a good turn. That is a lot of good APAs and LSI(L)s lost.
I see about 12 - 14 APA types lost and some combat ships that probably will not make it. I think you had a fairly good turn GreyJoy.

Materials mean nothing for the allies. You can lose half your all fleet and still land in Japan in 1944. What matters are the strategic results...and the allies got there.

Now another fleet has been seen departed from Sydney... moving North east... probably their next step is Rossell Island

(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)

Post #: 2067

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/17/2013 12:58:10 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

If now he's really coming for Rossell Island, maybe it's time to release the KB once again. I've kept her in the shadows for the moment...but with the allies gaining new bases it's getting more and more difficult to find some dark spaces in his naval search... This could be the last time i can handle a CV-CV fight... and i know his CVs are down there lurking... He has used a CVE/CVL TF to cover Terapo invasion... not so if he comes for Rossell

...mmm.... but if i reveal my KB and move it down there i may be opening the door for another attempt in the DEI or in Western Sumatra (he keeps reconning there)....

decisions decisions....

Attachment (1)

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2068

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/17/2013 1:16:55 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

The air-to-naval battle of Terapo is over.

Japan lost 150 planes to the 25 of the allies..Ouch!
However the allies should have lost 4 LSI(L) and not less than 4 APAs, along with 3 DDs... not that bad...but not enough either

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2069

RE: LOST VICTORIES - 2/17/2013 6:31:20 AM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

CR, I would add that as the firepower differential between 1 Allied AV and 1 IJA AV moves in the Allies' favor, it should mitigate that impact.

That said, I will be watching stacking limits AARs with great interest as they move into '43 and '44 to see how it plays out in practice.

It is not too far off the mark. 1943 and the Allies should have to isolate an atoll and starve it before being able to think of attacking. You put an American marine division ashore vs any number of low supply Japanese units and the American division will eventually win out even vs superior numbers. Then 1944 and 45 comes along and individual Allied units get much stronger in firepower. And you can throw in some very strong tank units. Wait until you get the flame tank battalions or the large amphib tank units.

Stacking limits notwithstanding, the Allies should be able to overwhelm atolls eventually. 1942 and early 43 are another story but it is as it should be.

The key is, and should be that the Allied need to defeat the Japanese fleet before they can really consider hitting up a bunch of atolls. No Japanese fleet and any atoll is doomed. This is what appeals to me about the stacking limits in dababes. I am anxious to give it a try.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 2070