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RE: The quiet American - 5/17/2013 11:04:03 AM

veji1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

Hmmm..Try to keep in mind that he might be trying to set up a trap for the KB. Not a CAP trap mind you to down planes, but a real trap where he lures the KB to strike and then rushes with his CVs for a close quarter fight.

Yes, i'm doing my best to look for his CVs. At the very same time I cannot simply run away everytime I see his CVs. It is true that my CVs are precious, but, sooner or later, i'll have to use them against his CVs once again.
Let's see Veji...hard to tell what to do now... for the moment i'm just moving into position...then we'll decide

I didn't mean avoid his CVs, just that when you set up your LBA around the KB for example, you think about the possibility of his CVs coming towards you and plan accordingly so that you get more bang on his CVs rather than have your Frances go and attack a meaningless amphib force for example.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/17/2013 11:08:30 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

Hmmm..Try to keep in mind that he might be trying to set up a trap for the KB. Not a CAP trap mind you to down planes, but a real trap where he lures the KB to strike and then rushes with his CVs for a close quarter fight.

Yes, i'm doing my best to look for his CVs. At the very same time I cannot simply run away everytime I see his CVs. It is true that my CVs are precious, but, sooner or later, i'll have to use them against his CVs once again.
Let's see Veji...hard to tell what to do now... for the moment i'm just moving into position...then we'll decide

I didn't mean avoid his CVs, just that when you set up your LBA around the KB for example, you think about the possibility of his CVs coming towards you and plan accordingly so that you get more bang on his CVs rather than have your Frances go and attack a meaningless amphib force for example.

Yes, got it!

It's very difficult to plan in those situations... his amphib forces are the primary target, strategically speaking, but I do see your point. If he charges I may be in trouble. The idea is to always operate the KB in combo with the LBA and try to get as much support as possible even from LBA LRCAP. Some 200 (so to say 100 with the 50% rule) Georges over my KB won't be bad.

Let's see how it develops... will be very interesting.... never been under these peculiar conditions

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RE: The quiet American - 5/17/2013 2:37:48 PM

veji1

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Do be honest I have no clue how to properly plan for that, it's just that if I was in his shoes I would think "what has slowed me down tremendously in the last 6 months is the KB and if I want to pick up speed, more than having another base or opening another front that would slowly tire him out, the quickest way is to engage the KB and sink+damage a big chunk of it. I don't care if I lose 4CVs doing so, i'll get plenty plus with all the CVEs I can still escort lots of ops, so now I need to make him commit the KB where I know more or less where it will be to strike it. So , where did he park the KB the last few times he attacked my ops in southern DEI or NG... hm..."

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RE: The quiet American - 5/17/2013 10:26:12 PM

JeffroK

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Flooding??

We got 8mm this week and thought it was a lot!

Been watching the Giro, there's been a lot of rain about!

As an aside, the Giro always make me appreciate the effort of the Allied forces in WW2, every hill has a village and there's lots of hills.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 12:51:51 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Flooding??

We got 8mm this week and thought it was a lot!

Been watching the Giro, there's been a lot of rain about!

As an aside, the Giro always make me appreciate the effort of the Allied forces in WW2, every hill has a village and there's lots of hills.

My parents basement still has water well over the cieling

I got flooded too 2 years ago...and it wasn't pretty, i can tell you. I had to remove mud for more than a week....

not to count the costs... i lost nearly 50,000 euros of goods

BTW...8 november 1943.... ANOTHER FRACKING failure caused by weather... perfect positioning... 7 hexes from 4 juicy BBs... NOT A SINGLE PLANE LAUNCHED...AGAIN!....com'on.... weather was forecasterd CLEAR....

Too pissed to comment tonight... tomorrow a full review

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Post #: 2645

RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 12:57:03 AM

artuitus_slith

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look at it this way greyjoy-at least you had 50k euros worth of goods to lose :) Hope the flooding stops soon, I used to do flood mitigation/repair work and it was never fun.

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Post #: 2646

RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 3:12:37 AM

Cribtop

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The irony that IRL flooding is matched by rain in the game.

Please send some of the rain over here. We've had some but need more.

It sounds like flooding is common where you live GJ. I'm curious - how does flood insurance work in Italy?

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Post #: 2647

RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 4:13:59 AM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

The irony that IRL flooding is matched by rain in the game.

Please send some of the rain over here. We've had some but need more.

It sounds like flooding is common where you live GJ. I'm curious - how does flood insurance work in Italy?

My brother bought a house that fronts Lake Travis about five years ago. The water has yet to come near his dock. I am beginning to think that he was taken for a sucker....

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Post #: 2648

RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 2:08:14 PM

GreyJoy

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Ok, here we are.

Nov 8,9 1943

Well, Brad had parked for a whole week 4 BBs right in front of Bathrust Island... a whole week...no movement at all....
I decided to give it a try. Waited for a day with good weather forecasted and then released my KB. Another run at flank speed, positioning 2 hexes east of Lautem and 7 hexes from the BBs.... set up all my search arcs in the right way... everything went smoothly...my CVs were unspotted... kept hidden for weeks just for that....

Guess what?

Storms both over the BBs and over my CVs...both morning and afternoon....

Not a single a/c launched... instead the yankees did send 100 bombers, escorted by 100 fighters over Lautem... we fought back and downed 150 of his planes, losing 90 of mine own... then some 30 torpedo bombers escorted by corsairs attacked my CVs...but got mauled both by LRCAP and by my local CV CAP.... but damn, it's the 4th time my CVs raids get screwed......and Brad is getting so damned lucky with the weather on the naval encounters....:-(

Then, on the 9th, Sweeps came over Magwe...and, once again, we fought back. 100 fighters downed for me, while he lost some 50...not bad, once again.

Brad also asked me about the numbers of my IJN fighters. A good friend wrote me an email saying Brad is a bit concerned about the resize of my IJNAF fighter groups....

I copy what i wrote to Brad

Not that massively. I had expanded 5 groups of IJN fighters from 27 to 81 and divided them in 3x27 (a part from the one you see at Mandalay) and upgraded them to George mainly. The float planes, tough, have been expanded all to 20 planes each (a part from those groups operating aboard AVs and AMCs). At Mandalay i have two groups of 45 N1K2 and one of 81. These were the ones you are seeing in combat.

I had done this during the first year when sentais around were very few and the IJAF was still very little. Stopped doing that in 1943 when the reinforcements groups finally start to arrive. Also the cost in term of supplies spent to maintain those big groups was getting too high and i have never enough pilots to them anyway.

Do you find it not "kosher"? I tried never to use them on sweep missions (i know that sweeping with big groups is, somehow, gamey, cause you have a much more advantage sweeping with big groups instead of smaller ones).

Personally i don't find the enlargements unbalancing (well, maybe if i had expanded the way Rader did :-) ), but i am open to discuss it if you want. The way is see it is that if Japan is able to produce more planes for its pools it's somehow reasonable to create new groups if you have the resources (supplies, HIs etc) to do it, provided you don't "flood" the allies with simply too many planes to be handled.

But it's just my opinion...

I can resize them back, no problem. If Brad finds i did something wrong i apologise. I truly don't think so, but that's just my opinion and i may be wrong obviously.
Think it would be kosher to set an HR that limits the resizing to the max number originally available for the IJN...but, as you know, IJN groups can reach 45 planes... so if i'd resize all my IJN groups to 45 my air force would be much larger than what is now...

But i'm open to discussion. What do you think guys?

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 2:11:59 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

The irony that IRL flooding is matched by rain in the game.

Please send some of the rain over here. We've had some but need more.

It sounds like flooding is common where you live GJ. I'm curious - how does flood insurance work in Italy?

The insurance? Mine simply told me that my "house insurance" doesn't cover the "extraordinary events"... so i got nothing

well, it's pretty easy to get to 50,000 euros of goods... a car, a couple of good bicycles, the whole wardrobe (shoes, suits, ties, shirts... think about a whole life!), the washing machine, the drying machine and many many other stuff like that

...oh, forgot the lift...pretty expensive!

It's been really a pita...especially because this region has never been a common place for floodings... but now, since 3 years ago, it's becoming quite the rule here

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 2:27:52 PM

GreyJoy

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If i'm not mistake, Brad's ready to invade Hollandia, while his CVs have entered the Gulf of Carpentaria, escorting a LOT of APAs....

mmmmm...... he closed with hordes of 4Es Lautem, Taberfane and Dobo... yes, i think he's preparing his way for another invasion here...

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 2:49:59 PM

JocMeister

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About the resizing.

I think you will either have to agree on allowing this freely or don�t do it at all. You can�t do "some" and only "defensive". Personally I would avoid this kind of resizing. I don�t think its intended and its easy for stuff like this to escalate out of control. Before you know it Brad will start sweeping with 90 plane groups to deal with your enlarged CAP. And then you will resize more groups to combat that and so on.

Also keep in mind that resizing like this is almost impossible for the allied player to do since pools won�t support it. Many squadrons also cannot resize because they have fixed resizings in late 44. So Brad can�t very well combat your bigger groups by doing the same. The allies are already suffering from having much smaller squadrons. 16 planes of the RAF and 18 of the USMC comes to mind. Resizing Jap squadrons just enhances that drawback.

I don�t think any good will come from it. (IMO and IMHO and all that). I would say the most kosher thing of all would be to just leave the squadrons the same size they were intended to be in the scenario. Why fiddle with it all? Placing LBA squadrons on a CV with the sole purpose or resizing them pretty obviously isn�t something the developers intended for us to do or they would simply have left us with the ability to resize them at will?

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 2:55:31 PM

obvert

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quote:

I can resize them back, no problem. If Brad finds i did something wrong i apologise. I truly don't think so, but that's just my opinion and i may be wrong obviously.
Think it would be kosher to set an HR that limits the resizing to the max number originally available for the IJN...but, as you know, IJN groups can reach 45 planes... so if i'd resize all my IJN groups to 45 my air force would be much larger than what is now...

But i'm open to discussion. What do you think guys?

It's a delicate issue because the ability is there, but probably is not balanced between the sides. Many Allied groups apparently can't be resized, and the ones that can might not have the pools to back them in the best model planes.

Large group sizes function better both offensively and defensively. If there is an 81 plane group that just means it gets up a large amount of planes at one time and that is harder for small sweepers to handle than many smaller groups getting planes up at different rates. I notice often that the different groups, even of the same plane type, arrive in combat at various phases. With a large group that is avoided. The more planes in the air the harder it is for sweeps to get an advantage. When my groups come up piecemeal, which happens a LOT, the first up is crushed due to light numbers, then each in turn takes a few losses as it arrives, and only toward the end of the combat when all groups are present do I start to get significant losses to the Allied sweepers.

I'm sure you guys can strike a compromise. There should be some flexibility for each player, as these things are built into the system and have consequences for each side (economy, lack of air support and pilot numbers for the Japanese, fighter pools for the Allies). I think anything over the max regular group size (45 planes) gives a greater advantage in any kind of combat, and of course that size gives an advantage over the smaller Allied groups already.

As for the float planes I have also re-sized a lot of small unit to between 9-20. I've sacrificed a lot for better eyes and ASW, and paid the steep economic price (as well as the pilot price - the 'iron' price

). What I can't remember is whether the Allies have float plane AVs to resize their groups? Do they? I know they get a ton of groups, so there isn't much of a shortage, but I'm curious if they're able to do the same if would wish.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/18/2013 4:51:51 PM >

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 3:10:59 PM

ny59giants

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quote:

As for the float planes I have also re-sized a lot of small unit to between 9-20. I've sacrificed a lot for better eyes and ASW, and paid the steep economic price (as well as the pilot price - the 'iron' price ). What I can't remember is whether the Allies have float plane AVs to resize their groups? Do they? I know they get a ton of groups, so there isn't much of a shortage, but I'm serious if they're able to do the same if would wish.

The Americans get lots of 18 plane FP groups. The option most have is the ability to upgrade to SBD-3/5s. I have done so in my parallel game and then found the few that can go the Avenger route. I wish I could upgrade more to Avengers which I have in spades.

Slightly OT - Playing Allies I would LOVE to be able to re-size one of my Marine CVE groups to 90 and be able to fill it out with Corsairs. Just need to increase production from 30/mo to 90/mo.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 4:47:15 PM

GreyJoy

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Ok guys, got it. Now the question is: how should i resize them? What should i do? And, above all, WHEN should i do? I need to move a CV to HI or Singa (to a place with plenty of supplies), move all the fragments back there, recombine, downgrade to Zeros and then resize...this will require a lot of time and, above all, we're right in the middle of an allied big offensive (2 Marine divisions just landed clean at Hollandia!)... how can i do that without screwing my defensive plans?

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 4:55:24 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Ok guys, got it. Now the question is: how should i resize them? What should i do? And, above all, WHEN should i do? I need to move a CV to HI or Singa (to a place with plenty of supplies), move all the fragments back there, recombine, downgrade to Zeros and then resize...this will require a lot of time and, above all, we're right in the middle of an allied big offensive (2 Marine divisions just landed clean at Hollandia!)... how can i do that without screwing my defensive plans?

Well, if the issue for Brad is the size of group and not the overall amount of planes you can field, why not just split them to fragments and use them that way until you can resize? Your air support will dictate how much you can use in any area regardless of how many total planes you have.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/18/2013 4:56:08 PM >

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Post #: 2656

RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 4:57:32 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Ok guys, got it. Now the question is: how should i resize them? What should i do? And, above all, WHEN should i do? I need to move a CV to HI or Singa (to a place with plenty of supplies), move all the fragments back there, recombine, downgrade to Zeros and then resize...this will require a lot of time and, above all, we're right in the middle of an allied big offensive (2 Marine divisions just landed clean at Hollandia!)... how can i do that without screwing my defensive plans?

Well, if the issue for Brad is the size of group and not the overall amount of planes you can field, why not just split them to fragments and use them that way until you can resize? Your air support will dictate how much you can use in any area regardless of how many total planes you have.

Gotta ask him... seems resonable...

I'll start splitting and slowly move the smaller groups back untill one of my CVs can get back home

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 5:14:01 PM

GreyJoy

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Nov 10, 43

So, after all those feints at Darwin, Brad got my attention on the other side of NG, while he was planning to invade Hollandia. 2 Full Marine Divisions (finally we know where they are) and several tank units landed clean at the big NG base. We tried to send some subs, but we missed the APAs and the several warships escorting the transports.
However, as far as i can understand, Brad only took a limited number of APAs for this mission... the rest must be at Darwin...

The LRCAP over Hollandia is massive...not so sure i want to send my bombers that far against a very close LRCAP.

I wanna see how my Hollandia garrison performs. He has a massive firepower there and my guys are out of supplies...but i'm pretty curious to see how 700 japanese AVs can perform against 2 Marine Divisions...it will be quite a test for what will come in the future...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hollandia (93,116)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 22000 troops, 180 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 759

Defending force 16350 troops, 400 guns, 349 vehicles, Assault Value = 724

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
1st South Seas Gsn
51st Division
Maizuru 4th SNLF
18th Garrison Unit
47th Cavalry Regiment
7th Ind Engineer Regiment
1st Raiding Rgt /3
15th Base Force
51st Air Div /1
51st JNAF AF Unit
26th JNAF AF Unit /1
12th Air Defense AA Regiment
85th JAAF AF Bn
17th Army
34th JNAF AF Unit
36th JNAF AF Unit
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
31st Air Defense AA Battalion
58th JNAF AF Unit
45th JNAF AF Unit /2

Defending units:
762nd Tank Bn /3
2/6th Armoured Regiment
3rd Marine Div /12
2nd Marine Div /13

Probably his total AV will be something around 1200...quite a lot...

numbers i can only dream to have... with those 700 AVs i'm already at the very limit of the 35,000 men capacity of Hollandia

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 5:26:25 PM

Chickenboy

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It bodes ill for you if you're out of supplies there. These guys will quickly become a liability for you, just like IRL.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 5:33:40 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Ok, here we are.

Nov 8,9 1943

Well, Brad had parked for a whole week 4 BBs right in front of Bathrust Island... a whole week...no movement at all....
I decided to give it a try. Waited for a day with good weather forecasted and then released my KB. Another run at flank speed, positioning 2 hexes east of Lautem and 7 hexes from the BBs.... set up all my search arcs in the right way... everything went smoothly...my CVs were unspotted... kept hidden for weeks just for that....

Guess what?

Storms both over the BBs and over my CVs...both morning and afternoon.... Not a single a/c launched... instead the yankees did send 100 bombers, escorted by 100 fighters over Lautem... we fought back and downed 150 of his planes, losing 90 of mine own... then some 30 torpedo bombers escorted by corsairs attacked my CVs...but got mauled both by LRCAP and by my local CV CAP.... but damn, it's the 4th time my CVs raids get screwed......and Brad is getting so damned lucky with the weather on the naval encounters....:-(

Then, on the 9th, Sweeps came over Magwe...and, once again, we fought back. 100 fighters downed for me, while he lost some 50...not bad, once again.

Brad also asked me about the numbers of my IJN fighters. A good friend wrote me an email saying Brad is a bit concerned about the resize of my IJNAF fighter groups....

I copy what i wrote to Brad

Not that massively. I had expanded 5 groups of IJN fighters from 27 to 81 and divided them in 3x27 (a part from the one you see at Mandalay) and upgraded them to George mainly. The float planes, tough, have been expanded all to 20 planes each (a part from those groups operating aboard AVs and AMCs). At Mandalay i have two groups of 45 N1K2 and one of 81. These were the ones you are seeing in combat.

I had done this during the first year when sentais around were very few and the IJAF was still very little. Stopped doing that in 1943 when the reinforcements groups finally start to arrive. Also the cost in term of supplies spent to maintain those big groups was getting too high and i have never enough pilots to them anyway.

Do you find it not "kosher"? I tried never to use them on sweep missions (i know that sweeping with big groups is, somehow, gamey, cause you have a much more advantage sweeping with big groups instead of smaller ones).

Personally i don't find the enlargements unbalancing (well, maybe if i had expanded the way Rader did :-) ), but i am open to discuss it if you want. The way is see it is that if Japan is able to produce more planes for its pools it's somehow reasonable to create new groups if you have the resources (supplies, HIs etc) to do it, provided you don't "flood" the allies with simply too many planes to be handled.

But it's just my opinion...

I can resize them back, no problem. If Brad finds i did something wrong i apologise. I truly don't think so, but that's just my opinion and i may be wrong obviously.
Think it would be kosher to set an HR that limits the resizing to the max number originally available for the IJN...but, as you know, IJN groups can reach 45 planes... so if i'd resize all my IJN groups to 45 my air force would be much larger than what is now...

But i'm open to discussion. What do you think guys?

GreyJoy,

How precisely did you resize? If you cleared off every plane on a flight deck in order to maximize the resize to 81 planes only to intentionally resize them as an LBA-restricted fighter, then there was an effort there to make LBA IJNAF something it wasn't and never could have been. I'd be somewhat troubled by that.

I have a HR on resizing carrier air for the sake of training. For example, HR restrictions do not permit me to max size all my float groups just to make training squadrons on CS or making training squadrons on CVs from A6M aircraft, for example. Now, if they're not really used for training but deployment, there's a bit of a grey zone there.

Talk it over with your partner. See if there's something that he can do to expand his air groups accordingly too. If he's restricted because of the artificial construct of the game, then you may need to stay your hand as well.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 6:06:15 PM

ny59giants

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quote:

I wanna see how my Hollandia garrison performs. He has a massive firepower there and my guys are out of supplies...but i'm pretty curious to see how 700 japanese AVs can perform against 2 Marine Divisions...it will be quite a test for what will come in the future...

Not well "IF" Brad can maintain high disruption values by either LBA set on ground attacks and/or by having warships bombard the base.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 6:15:45 PM

JocMeister

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If you are out of supply doesn�t that mean a -90% combat modifier?

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 6:31:13 PM

GreyJoy

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Well, Brad has managed to cut every attempt of mine to resupply Hollandia, Vanimo and Sarmi and has bombed the hell out of them for 3 months now. Yes, they are out of supplies and i know they will fall. But i wanna see how fast they fall in order to be able to act accordingly when the next push to Biak will be made. Biak, Nemonfor and the other close-by base will have, in complex, some 250k supplies. I wanna use Hollandia as a test to see and to learn from my previous mistakes. Here i got sloppy and thought i had much more time to devolp the defensive complex... for the next time i wanna be more ready!

ChickenBoy, I did resize moving out the Kaga groups and transfering the LBA group on it, then resize to 81 and splitted it into 3 groups of 27 planes, so to have 3 sentais instead of 1.
For the FPs, i am using them mostly on ASW duties and naval search, in order to fight the allied subs and create some "corridors" where my TFs can move safely.

However, i got the message. If even the JFBs think this is gamey, clearly it is. And i am sorry cause it's horrible to be indicated as a "gamey guy". I thought it was a common pratice, well accepted, to resize the air groups.

The problem is that there wouldn't be a worst moment to do that, cause the allies are in a full offensive movement and i badly need my CVs to be there.

However i think i found the solution. I will move back the CVL Ryuho (48 planes capacity) and use it to slowly resize all the 5 fighter groups from 81 back to 45 (which should be kosher cause the IJN has 45 organic sentais). I hate to renounce to a CVL in these moments, but think it's something i must do. Would hate to make Brad feels cheeted.

It will take some time, cause the groups are spread all over the map. But should be able to do it within a month.
In the meanwhile, the 3 81planes groups will always be operated at 50% rest.

BTW... the enemy bombed Taberfane and Dobo once again...clearly trying to close all the AFs around his next landing site...which may be Saumlaki or Selroe probably. I also think he's gonna use paradrops on some dot bases close to Boela...

Let's see if i can be a bit more lucky with the weather....

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 6:58:29 PM

koniu

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From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

However i think i found the solution. I will move back the CVL Ryuho (48 planes capacity) and use it to slowly resize all the 5 fighter groups from 81 back to 45 (which should be kosher cause the IJN has 45 organic sentais). I hate to renounce to a CVL in these moments, but think it's something i must do. Would hate to make Brad feels cheeted.

To downgrade them You will have to use Akagi. First You need to downgrade to A6M. But after that group will still have 81 planes and such group will not be allowed to fly to 48 size CVL. Solution can be do downgrade to model you have less that 48 in polls and then fly on CVL

< Message edited by koniu -- 5/18/2013 7:13:00 PM >

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RE: The quiet American - 5/18/2013 11:41:17 PM

JeffroK

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Dont get into the trap of comparing AV.

You are past the stage where 1 IJA AV = 1 Allied AV.

The firepower of most Allied Infantry Divisions is well above any IJA Infantry Division, and as always its firepower that kills.

As for the resizing, IMVHO, because you had to put LBA onto a CV to manage it makes it pushing the boundaries. If you could do it on land the argument of being able to use your aircraft pools to their maximum.

PS With the weather, what are the regional weather forecasts, are you operating in an area with poor weather overall. What was the weather the day before at your target and over your CV's?

< Message edited by JeffK -- 5/18/2013 11:42:21 PM >

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RE: The quiet American - 5/19/2013 1:19:25 AM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Ok, here we are.

Nov 8,9 1943

Well, Brad had parked for a whole week 4 BBs right in front of Bathrust Island... a whole week...no movement at all....
I decided to give it a try. Waited for a day with good weather forecasted and then released my KB. Another run at flank speed, positioning 2 hexes east of Lautem and 7 hexes from the BBs.... set up all my search arcs in the right way... everything went smoothly...my CVs were unspotted... kept hidden for weeks just for that....

Guess what?

Storms both over the BBs and over my CVs...both morning and afternoon.... Not a single a/c launched... instead the yankees did send 100 bombers, escorted by 100 fighters over Lautem... we fought back and downed 150 of his planes, losing 90 of mine own... then some 30 torpedo bombers escorted by corsairs attacked my CVs...but got mauled both by LRCAP and by my local CV CAP.... but damn, it's the 4th time my CVs raids get screwed......and Brad is getting so damned lucky with the weather on the naval encounters....:-(

Then, on the 9th, Sweeps came over Magwe...and, once again, we fought back. 100 fighters downed for me, while he lost some 50...not bad, once again.

Brad also asked me about the numbers of my IJN fighters. A good friend wrote me an email saying Brad is a bit concerned about the resize of my IJNAF fighter groups....

I copy what i wrote to Brad

Not that massively. I had expanded 5 groups of IJN fighters from 27 to 81 and divided them in 3x27 (a part from the one you see at Mandalay) and upgraded them to George mainly. The float planes, tough, have been expanded all to 20 planes each (a part from those groups operating aboard AVs and AMCs). At Mandalay i have two groups of 45 N1K2 and one of 81. These were the ones you are seeing in combat.

I had done this during the first year when sentais around were very few and the IJAF was still very little. Stopped doing that in 1943 when the reinforcements groups finally start to arrive. Also the cost in term of supplies spent to maintain those big groups was getting too high and i have never enough pilots to them anyway.

Do you find it not "kosher"? I tried never to use them on sweep missions (i know that sweeping with big groups is, somehow, gamey, cause you have a much more advantage sweeping with big groups instead of smaller ones).

Personally i don't find the enlargements unbalancing (well, maybe if i had expanded the way Rader did :-) ), but i am open to discuss it if you want. The way is see it is that if Japan is able to produce more planes for its pools it's somehow reasonable to create new groups if you have the resources (supplies, HIs etc) to do it, provided you don't "flood" the allies with simply too many planes to be handled.

But it's just my opinion...

I can resize them back, no problem. If Brad finds i did something wrong i apologise. I truly don't think so, but that's just my opinion and i may be wrong obviously.
Think it would be kosher to set an HR that limits the resizing to the max number originally available for the IJN...but, as you know, IJN groups can reach 45 planes... so if i'd resize all my IJN groups to 45 my air force would be much larger than what is now...

But i'm open to discussion. What do you think guys?

Well, the only issue is that the Allies can do the same and create 90 plane fighter squadrons with naval and marine units. I never did that (yes, it is gamey) but have increased the size of over a dozen units to 36-42 size groups so that I have some that can rotate to my carriers. I figured as long as I did not re size them beyond historical carrier groups size it would be OK. However, if my opponent was re-sizing to 90 plane units then I would not hesitate to do so. For the Allies, you really get so many groups by 1945 that the problem is finding a place to use them... but in a sweep, size does matter.

So for me it is OK as long as it is within reason.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/19/2013 1:24:15 AM

crsutton

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Joined: 12/6/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

As for the float planes I have also re-sized a lot of small unit to between 9-20. I've sacrificed a lot for better eyes and ASW, and paid the steep economic price (as well as the pilot price - the 'iron' price ). What I can't remember is whether the Allies have float plane AVs to resize their groups? Do they? I know they get a ton of groups, so there isn't much of a shortage, but I'm serious if they're able to do the same if would wish.

The Americans get lots of 18 plane FP groups. The option most have is the ability to upgrade to SBD-3/5s. I have done so in my parallel game and then found the few that can go the Avenger route. I wish I could upgrade more to Avengers which I have in spades.

Slightly OT - Playing Allies I would LOVE to be able to re-size one of my Marine CVE groups to 90 and be able to fill it out with Corsairs. Just need to increase production from 30/mo to 90/mo.

You will eventually get a million 8 plane avenger units coming in on your CVEs. I did expand about a dozen of these to 24 because I do not like to use mixed plane groups on my carriers but have one carrier carry one type of plane. Plus, the avenger is one plane that you get plenty of. Might as well put them to work.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/19/2013 1:31:46 AM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Dont get into the trap of comparing AV.

You are past the stage where 1 IJA AV = 1 Allied AV.

The firepower of most Allied Infantry Divisions is well above any IJA Infantry Division, and as always its firepower that kills.

As for the resizing, IMVHO, because you had to put LBA onto a CV to manage it makes it pushing the boundaries. If you could do it on land the argument of being able to use your aircraft pools to their maximum.

PS With the weather, what are the regional weather forecasts, are you operating in an area with poor weather overall. What was the weather the day before at your target and over your CV's?

This is doubly so for the Marine Division with a higher squad firepower and an army squad, and a overlarge artillery compliment. Plus a Marine Division gets about 120 HMG and MMG squads. Basically, if you are out of supply you will be toast very fast. Out of supply units don't recover from disruption or fatigue so after a couple of deliberate attacks you will start to melt. Problem is a lot of players can't wait to shock and shock too early. No need to vs an out of supply unit. I think about a week's worth of deliberate attacks will do the job.

My late war American Infantry divisions are starting to get their own organic Pershing tank battalions. That can't be good for the IJA.

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RE: The quiet American - 5/19/2013 9:45:44 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Well, Brad has managed to cut every attempt of mine to resupply Hollandia, Vanimo and Sarmi and has bombed the hell out of them for 3 months now. Yes, they are out of supplies and i know they will fall. But i wanna see how fast they fall in order to be able to act accordingly when the next push to Biak will be made. Biak, Nemonfor and the other close-by base will have, in complex, some 250k supplies. I wanna use Hollandia as a test to see and to learn from my previous mistakes. Here i got sloppy and thought i had much more time to devolp the defensive complex... for the next time i wanna be more ready!

This is exactly how I felt in this area, although combined with some poor luck with weather. But of course you can't rely on only air power to defend where the Allies can use LST/DD invasions. It's a tough spot as so much is dedicated to not allowing the Allies to turn the corner, but in late 43/44, once they do it's a power drive to the end of New Guinea. Your big bases might still hold him up for a while, and as they do make sure the next level in the Biak AND the Sorong areas are strong and supplied.

quote:

ChickenBoy, I did resize moving out the Kaga groups and transfering the LBA group on it, then resize to 81 and splitted it into 3 groups of 27 planes, so to have 3 sentais instead of 1.
For the FPs, i am using them mostly on ASW duties and naval search, in order to fight the allied subs and create some "corridors" where my TFs can move safely.

However, i got the message. If even the JFBs think this is gamey, clearly it is. And i am sorry cause it's horrible to be indicated as a "gamey guy". I thought it was a common pratice, well accepted, to resize the air groups.

The problem is that there wouldn't be a worst moment to do that, cause the allies are in a full offensive movement and i badly need my CVs to be there.

Not one player here would consider you gamey, Nic. You're going through this campaign for the first time and much of what you're basing things on is a game with the player who figured out more than anyone how to squeeze every last drop out of the IJ. I don't think you doing this is gamey, it's all in how you use the groups and the fact you're not trying to get a combat advantage with larger sizes.

It is common practice to re-size naval air groups, and we all do it to an extent, paying the inherent prices economically that result. Don't compromise your defense to change them back immediately. Split them and and wait until you can do it in a relatively less volatile moment, or even switch them out for training groups and send them home. You only have one chance to hold the Allies back from each spot, and once they have it the tetris pile builds up a little more, speeds up a little more, until it's game over. Fight now!

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/19/2013 9:46:47 AM >

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RE: The quiet American - 5/19/2013 11:09:08 PM

GreyJoy

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Thanks guys for all the help (not only pratical, but also ethical)!

November 13, 1943

Here we go again... Brad has assembled 4 hexes south of Selroe a HUGE invasion force. All his CVs and CVEs, along with BBs and Cruisers, seem to be assembled here. APA/AKA and many many many DDs are also present. They are lingering... while 30 allied subs are creating a safety belt south of Ambon and Boela.
One thing i'm sure about: those amphib TFs haven't been loaded at Darwin... for the rest i don't know if this is another feint or a real invasion.
The target may be Saumlaki or Taberfane. Selroe could be another target but i don't think Brad would need another 0(3) AF base... he needs a (5) base here...

My KB (spotted) is fully refueled north of Ambon. I think i'll try to move a bit souther...and see if i can engage him at 8 hexes. Ambon and Boela will be my support bases, while 2 strong SAG will try to sweep towards Saumlaki, preceded by some DD TFs.

a Clash of Titans is waiting for us...

at the same time the 3rd Marine division has completed its unloading procedures at Hollandia, with many CAs bombing every day.

In Burma he's sweeping Sweebo, trying to lure my leaky CAP from Mandaly...with no success so far.

The first Frank-r unit is almost ready at Rangoon, while D4Y4 and KI-69T advanced to 3/44

. Think i'll have them both by jan 44

The second regiment of the 54th Division is unloading at Tinian, which is growing fast. Now Pagan, Saipan, Guam and Tinian are all well guarded. The Mariannas are safe for the moment. He will need a long campaign to conquer anything here...

So, his only advancing route will be, for the next months, eastern and western NG

(in reply to obvert)

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