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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Gods hate Yamamoto

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RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 5/31/2013 2:20:40 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Nov 1, 1943

NY59 Giants is right: QBall is ready to invade towards Taberfane.
A huge fleet of APA/LSTs popped up 1 hex east of Saumlaki, covered by the CVs and by LRCAP from Molu. He sent 2 big TFs of Fletchers to sweep Boela, where they found 5 of my DDs...my guys fought well at night, but the next morning another DDTF arrived and simply annihilated my 5 DDs...sinking 3 of them right away, while 2 more will sink tomorrow.

Now I have to decide what to do... his targets may be Taberfane, Dobo or Kai-enlanded. They all are possible 8 level AF and they all are guarded by small garrisons... should I commit all my reserves or should I simply let him land, avoiding another blooth bath of my shattered air armies and trying to keep my strengths? I know I won't stop him whatever I do and I know I cannot statlemate him once he is landed... is it worth to send hundreds of planes to die? Maybe just to sink a couple of transports?...
Hard call indeed...

The KB is replenishing...but it's too far away to arrive in time anyway... now the strategical consequences of the Darwin raid are being shown... I let an open window for him and he is fast in exploiting it.

(in reply to SuluSea)

Post #: 2761

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 5/31/2013 2:22:36 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I truly think we could have made a perfect PH this turn. We had 250 zeros on escort, with 300 Jills and 250 Judys, plus some 80 Frances and more 90 Jills from LBA.

Was those CVs in TFs in base hex, or disbanded in port? If disbanded it is better to set planes on port attack only, as they tend to waste their attacks on unimportant pickets instead of coordinate.

Anyway, against such CAP, you should have send Surface TF first there. It would probably engage CVs, which will retreat on nearby hexes. That would cause chaotic bloodbath!
Or... you could try night attacks (OK, you still can, just use submarines for detecting). I think they have some max range (like 6 hexes), but should be pretty safe (and not very accurate), but against such number of ships, they would hit something.

They were not disbanded, but sitting in the base hex. It was impossible for me to engage with my SAGs. First of all we were too far away. When I ordered the attack my KB was at 20 hexes from Darwin...
Secondly he had his whole fleet there. Even if i'd won a couple of engagements, none of my surface ships could have escaped from there.

(in reply to inqistor)

Post #: 2762

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 5/31/2013 2:24:11 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
However i'm not forgetting Thailand. Slowly i'm garrisoning and fortifying the bases there. Now, with some newly arrived Bdes i'll be able to create a solid perimeter in northern Thailand. The goal is to be able to retreat in good order from Burma when the THAI divisions will start to be withdrawn. By that time the allies will be pushing hard in the DEI and Burma will become strategically useless, just like in RL

By the same token GreyJoy, I love the "Garrison" units that I can buy out of Manchuko for much the same reason. They can serve to Garrison locations on the periphery of my sphere of control. When they disappear (poof!) they cannot be cut off. In this case, the withdrawal date can be used to the IJ benefit in terms of strategic deployment.

With the Thai, I'd have them fight forward as much as possible. Let them get "cut off" in Burma or N. Thailand. Unless they're liquidated, they can't be their own prisoners.

Yup, doing the same here. I have already used 2 withdrawing garrisons at Lunga and Munda... while my Thai units are doing their job exactly like that. They will be sacrificed in order to cover my retreat once we abandon Burma

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 2763

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/1/2013 10:14:55 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Oh well... the americans landed another full Corp (the I Aus Corp) with 2 reinforced divisions at Kai Enlanden. We decided to try to use our LBA against them.... man...that was another BIG mistake. I committed 820 planes... 545 of them never got back and we scored almost no hits... his LRCAP simply ate alive my upcoming strikes...which, as usually, arrived in dribs and drabs... 10 of my subs were in action...2 got sunk and 8 more got damaged for not a single fired torp....
I have 200 AVs at Kai... Brad in a single night landed 800...

the total score in the air was 550 to 30...

Say what you want, but DBB + Beta patch really makes japanese life so much harder than in stock... coordination is now almost impossible (both for the beta and for the reduced AVs) and allied flak is so effective that even when you make through the cap screen, very few of your bombers will be able to arrive on target....

MUCH much more close to reality...unfortunately...

Even if i hate being on the recieving side, gotta admit that this game rapresents much better what happened in RL than stock. Kudos to the DBB guys...

But tears for me... my LBA is now annihilated. Got no reserves. Lost so many pilots that it will take months to rebuild my pools... and the yankees have now an open door towards Mindanao...

Moreover....more bad news.... Hollandia fell. After a great resistance, the 17th Army got pushed back to Vanimo, overstacking that hex and condemning 50,000 men to a slow starvation.... 2 full divisions (the 51st Div and the 1st Guards) are now out of action forever... and the allies now have an open door to the Mariannas...

However, the only bright thing is that i'm pretty confident to say that i couldn't do much more and much better. I've done what i could to stop and slow them down... both in NG and in southern DEI... but now, by 2 Dec 1943, they have so much toys that it's getting impossible to stop the steamroller....

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2764

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/1/2013 1:13:36 PM

paullus99

Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline

Ouch......now you know how the Japanese High Command felt after the "Marianna's Turkey Shoot."

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2765

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/1/2013 3:18:11 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Ouch......now you know how the Japanese High Command felt after the "Marianna's Turkey Shoot."

I think every player on the Japanese side in this game gets to experience that feeling more than once! The difference in game is that we are able to repair that stuff and train up more pilots. Not quite historically accurate, but makes for a better game.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to paullus99)

Post #: 2766

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/1/2013 3:21:26 PM

Saros

Posts: 454
Joined: 12/18/2010
Status: offline

Gotta say the results you are seeing are not reflective of real life results. The qulaity/quantity differences between your pilots (well trained!) and planes (all modern variants!) compared to what was the real situation makes it silly that you are suffering such terrible casualties with no results.

(in reply to paullus99)

Post #: 2767

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/1/2013 3:57:52 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Saros

Gotta say the results you are seeing are not reflective of real life results. The qulaity/quantity differences between your pilots (well trained!) and planes (all modern variants!) compared to what was the real situation makes it silly that you are suffering such terrible casualties with no results.

Disagree with you, sorry. At this point, the IJ doesn't have an escort fighter that will match up to any first line allied fighter. Thus, he is likely having to use his Tojo/Franks at extended range which operate at a penalty. Oscar/Zero simply are exp's for the allies now, particularly on offense. Even Tojo/Frank on offense are not comparable to F4U/P47/P38/Spit on defense, they are about even with the F6F though.

The lesson here is one that the Germans learned at BoB: you cannot expect unarmored (meaning anything less than a B17 type) bombers to be able to repeatedly make their strikes until you have established control of the air. Every CV vs CV combat in the game confirms this; they are crap shoots unless you have overwhelming odds.

So, what GJ did may or may not have been a good choice, buit the result is well within what should be expected results (anything from successful to a disaster that ocurred). To ensure success: sweep, sweep, sweep, then bomb. Understood that here that wasn't an option due to timing, but that doesn't negate the requirement.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Saros)

Post #: 2768

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/1/2013 7:11:39 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline

Problem is GJ can't sweep his own base.

_____________________________

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 2769

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/1/2013 10:21:46 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Problem is GJ can't sweep his own base.

Correct, as I stated above. It does not negate the requirement of air superiority prior to using bombers. It meant he needed to sweep the allied bases which he couldn't do due to range/timing. This means he took a big chance. As long as the risk was recognized, not an issue. That some feel the game borked because of the outcome, no. My opinion is that the outcome is well within the expected range of outcomes, just not a desired one here.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 2770

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/1/2013 10:55:20 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline

I don't disagree entirely, but I do have a concern that there were no or few leakers from the numerous unco-ordinated strikes. In other words, I fear that the leaker code assumes the large strikes of stock. In DBB, I would like to see several of the small strikes get through entirely to simulate one or more raids that came at an altitude or angle that the CAP couldn't get to. It seems like GJ gets numerous small strikes, each of which is slaughtered by the CAP. Not sure what the answer is.

GJ, what was your hit %age? It would be interesting to compare to RL to see how the model is holding up. That said, with better trained pilots than RL, I would expect a slightly better than RL hit rate. My concern is we may be seeing significantly less (although I could be wrong).

_____________________________

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 2771

RE: Gods hate Yamamoto - 6/2/2013 12:10:03 AM

paullus99

Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline

Cribtop - good question, though if you look at the Battle of Santa Cruz, which saw a good number of the elite KB pilots used, the hit rate was awful (due to extremely effective flak & CAP).

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 2772

The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 1:58:50 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Sorry for the delay guys. Having some harsh problems at work...cops etc... it's one of those aspects of being a lawyer that i really hate.

However...don't have time to comment deeply... i'll just copy the combat report for you.... I tried to slow him down and catch him offguard...boy i was wrong.
The IJNavy is basically halved now, with 1 more BB sunk, 2 in sinking conditions, 4 CAs on the bottom and something like 15 modern DDs that are now coral reefs...
The KB, once again, didn't perform well, avoiding any decent strike against his surface fleet... while his APA/AKAs managed to escape right under Tanaka's nose...
The usual strikes, coming in dribs and drabs, to the enemy's CVs... not a single hit and 450 more planes downed....

Well, anyway, it was real fun to watch this turn!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 03, 43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Kai-eilanden (81,115)

TF 338 troops unloading over beach at Kai-eilanden, 81,115

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Kai-eilanden at 81,115, Range 29,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
BB Yamato
CA Atago
CA Myoko
CA Nachi
CA Mikuma
CA Suzuya
DD Sagiri
DD Oboro
DD Ushio
DD Arikaze
DD Susukaze
DD Benigumo

Allied Ships
APD Manley
APD Waters
APD Herbert
APA Bolivar
APA Callaway
APA Custer
APA Du Page
AKA Titania
AKA Alcyon
AKA Thuban

Japanese Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Allied TF begins to get underway
Low visibility due to Thunderstorms with 39% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 39% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 27,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 27,000 yards
Allied Task Force Manages to Escape
Allied Amphibious TF evades combat

Due to the very low visibility the allied TF detected Tanaka way before he could detect them and managed to escape
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CL Naka, Shell hits 36, and is sunk
CL Jintsu, Shell hits 2
CL Nagara, Shell hits 3
CL Natori
CL Abukuma, Shell hits 3
DD Yugumo
DD Hagikaze
DD Hatsushima
DD Shikinami, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
BB Washington, Shell hits 4
BB Massachusetts
DD Bullard, Shell hits 29, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Chevalier
DD Barton, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Warrington, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Low visibility due to Thunderstorms with 39% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 39% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Hashimoto, Shintaro crosses the 'T'
Despite the "T", not a single Torp hit the enemy's BBs....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 3,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Torpedo hits 1
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 5
BB Hyuga
CA Chokai
CA Kumano
CA Aoba
CA Kinugasa
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
DD Fuyuzuki
DD Tamanami
DD Onami
DD Hamanami
DD Asashimo
DD Hayashimo
DD Akishimo
DD Arashi
DD Tanikaze

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 4, on fire
CA Sussex, Shell hits 9, on fire
DD Anthony
DD Duncan, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Frazier, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

These guys put up a great fight here

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 254 encounters mine field at Molu (79,116)

Japanese Ships
DD Tanikaze, Mine hits 1
DD Tamanami, Mine hits 1, heavy damage
CA Kinugasa, Mine hits 1

...how many damned mines does he have there?!?!?!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 3,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 1
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 4
BB Hyuga
CA Kumano
CA Aoba
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
DD Fuyuzuki
DD Onami
DD Hamanami
DD Asashimo
DD Hayashimo, Shell hits 1
DD Akishimo
DD Arashi

Allied Ships
DD Bailey
DD Henley
DD Warramunga, Shell hits 2
DD Kortenaer, Shell hits 1

They slowed us down again...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 3,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 6
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Kumano
CA Aoba
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
DD Fuyuzuki
DD Onami, Shell hits 6, on fire
DD Hamanami
DD Asashimo
DD Hayashimo
DD Akishimo
DD Arashi

Allied Ships
BB Washington
BB Massachusetts, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Chevalier, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Barton, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms with 50% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 50% moonlight: 2,000 yards

CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 24,000 yardsWOW!|!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 3,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Mutsu
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Kumano
CA Aoba
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
DD Fuyuzuki
DD Onami, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hamanami
DD Asashimo
DD Hayashimo, on fire
DD Akishimo
DD Arashi, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Fletcher, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Abbot
DD Brown, Shell hits 4, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 9
BB Mutsu
BB Hyuga, on fire
CA Kumano, Shell hits 3
CA Aoba
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 4
CA Kako, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Fuyuzuki
DD Hamanami
DD Asashimo
DD Hayashimo, on fire
DD Akishimo, Shell hits 3

Allied Ships
CL Honolulu, Shell hits 3, on fire
CL Montpelier, Shell hits 3, on fire
CL Birmingham, Shell hits 1
CL Mobile, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Chauncey
DD Cotten
DD Kidd, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Gansevoort, Shell hits 1

These bastards were brave
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 16, heavy fires
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Hyuga, on fire
CA Kumano
CA Aoba, Shell hits 2
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, on fire
DD Fuyuzuki, Shell hits 1
DD Hamanami, Shell hits 1
DD Asashimo
DD Hayashimo, on fire
DD Akishimo

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota
BB Alabama, Shell hits 25, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aulick, Shell hits 3
DD Bache, Shell hits 1
DD Beale
DD Brownson

Reduced visibility due to Thunderstorms with 50% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 50% moonlight: 1,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese radar detects Allied task force at 18,000 yards

Mutsu was left more or less sinking....while I hope the Alabama is in the same situation...but I doubt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, on fire
CA Kumano
CA Aoba
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Fuyuzuki
DD Hamanami
DD Hayashimo, on fire
DD Akishimo

Allied Ships
PT-132
PT-133
PT-135
PT-138
PT-320, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-321
PT-324
PT-325, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT-326, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 4,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Kumano
CA Aoba
CA Furutaka
DD Fuyuzuki
DD Akishimo

Allied Ships
AM Swallow
AM Turkey
LST-16
LST-17
LST-21, Shell hits 2
LST-26
LST-448
LST-452, Shell hits 2, on fire
LST-465, Shell hits 17, and is sunk
LST-466, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
LST-467, Shell hits 17, and is sunk
LCI-328
LCI-329
LCI-336
LCI-400, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
LCI-402

And we pressed on! This was a bombardment TF...a bombardment that never was...simply too many ships at Molu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Kumano
CA Aoba
CA Furutaka
DD Fuyuzuki
DD Akishimo

Allied Ships
SC-709, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
xAKL Nevadan, Shell hits 17, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Prusa, Shell hits 12, and is sunk

DAYLIGHT

When the day arrived our ships were still at Molu...fighting their way out among not less than 10 allied TFs....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,116, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Kako, Shell hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hamanami
DD Hayashimo

Allied Ships
CA Sussex, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Duncan, Shell hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,115, Range 4,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Onami, Shell hits 25, and is sunk
DD Arashi, Shell hits 23, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Bailey
DD Henley, Shell hits 2
DD Warramunga, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Kortenaer, Shell hits 2, heavy fires

And the damaged ships that were detached from the main TF did not have any safe way to get out of that mess

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Molu at 79,115, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E7K2 Alf: 2 destroyed
E13A1 Jake: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
CA Kako, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
DD Hamanami, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Hayashimo, Shell hits 2, heavy fires

Allied Ships
BB Washington
BB Massachusetts, Shell hits 8, on fire
DD Chevalier, Shell hits 2

Lee, Willis "Ching crosses the 'T'
BB Massachusetts engages BB Hyuga at 6,000 yards

Hyuga and Kako were immediately engaged at close range... my ships were already slowed down and out of ammo...an easy prey for Lee Ching

Several sweeps at Selaroe were ordered...hoping to divert some of his leaky CAP...no joy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Selaroe , at 78,118

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 25
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 36

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 25
F6F-3 Hellcat x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 3 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Selaroe , at 78,118

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 27
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 36

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 15
F6F-3 Hellcat x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Selaroe , at 78,118

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 24 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 43

Allied aircraft
P-40K Warhawk x 5
F6F-3 Hellcat x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40K Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Then the usual slaughter in the air... the KB, positioned south of Ambon launched a series of aenemic and uncoordinated strikes... and my LBA did the same from Biak against his CVs positioned near Taberfane....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Molu at 80,116

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
P1Y1 Frances x 12

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 51

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 6 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Montpelier

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Taberfane at 81,119

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 101 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3
A6M3a Zero x 15
P1Y1 Frances x 4
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 28

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 34
F6F-3 Hellcat x 147

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 10 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 9 destroyed

No Allied losses

CAP engaged:
VRF-7F with F6F-3 Hellcat (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
2 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-3 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-9 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(3 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-23 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 7000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 25 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-24 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-35 with F6F-3 Hellcat (3 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(3 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VMF-225 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
VF-1 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 22 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-8 with F4U-1A Corsair (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 22 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
20 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-16 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 20 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
27 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-25 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 5 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-2 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 20 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 13000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 41 minutes
12 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-22 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VF-30 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers
VC(F)-63 with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
VRF-4F with F6F-3 Hellcat (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Taberfane at 81,119

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 110 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 10
A6M3a Zero x 10
B6N2 Jill x 27

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 33
F6F-3 Hellcat x 134

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 6 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Hollandia at 93,116

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y1 Frances x 6

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 3
P-40K Warhawk x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 7
F4F-4 Wildcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y1 Frances: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Taberfane at 81,119

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 100 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2 Jill x 5

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 27
F6F-3 Hellcat x 117

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Taberfane at 81,119

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 100 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y1 Frances x 9

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 19
F6F-3 Hellcat x 86

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y1 Frances: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Hollandia at 93,116

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y1 Frances x 9

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 1
P-40K Warhawk x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 7
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y1 Frances: 4 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
APD Dent

Always dribs and drabs...even without escort

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Molu at 79,115

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y1 Frances x 5

Allied aircraft
P-38F Lightning x 5
P-38H Lightning x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y1 Frances: 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DD Chevalier
BB Massachusetts, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

FINALLY!!!

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x P1Y1 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Taberfane at 81,119

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 109 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 2
P1Y1 Frances x 12

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 15
F6F-3 Hellcat x 166

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 7 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Taberfane at 81,119

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 106 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y1 Frances x 14
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 4

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 14
F6F-3 Hellcat x 151

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y1 Frances: 3 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Molu at 79,116

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 10
J2M3 Jack x 27
N1K1-J George x 61

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 17
P-38H Lightning x 8
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 23
F4U-1 Corsair x 10
F6F-3 Hellcat x 37

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 4 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AKA Titania, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

YOU SEE!? This was a bomber group belonging to the KB...arrived with no KB escort...just with the LBA...and 10 judys??!?!? com'on!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Hollandia at 93,116

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2 Jill x 21

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 2
P-40K Warhawk x 6
P-40N5 Warhawk x 6
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Taberfane at 81,119

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 108 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 8
B6N2 Jill x 4
P1Y1 Frances x 6

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 14
F6F-3 Hellcat x 135

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 3 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 1 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 3 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Hornet
CV Congress

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x P1Y1 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Molu at 79,115

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 56 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 5
B6N2 Jill x 16

Allied aircraft
P-38F Lightning x 3
P-38H Lightning x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 2 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 9 destroyed, 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DD Kortenaer, on fire
DD Warramunga

Another ridiculous KB strike

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Molu at 79,115 From the KB!

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M3a Zero x 4
A6M5 Zero x 12
B6N2 Jill x 6
D4Y3 Judy x 9

Allied aircraft
P-38F Lightning x 1
P-38H Lightning x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 1 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38F Lightning: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Alabama, Bomb hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
DD Chevalier

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
6 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
4 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 12000 feet
4 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Molu at 79,116

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 94 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 1
A6M5 Zero x 1
B6N2 Jill x 13
D4Y3 Judy x 9
Ki-84a Frank x 42

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 17
P-38H Lightning x 7
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 23
F4U-1 Corsair x 10
F6F-3 Hellcat x 37

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 9 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 5 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 2 destroyed
P-47D2 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 7 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAP Wanaka, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
xAP Koolama, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
744 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 44 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 11 (11 destroyed, 0 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Molu at 79,115

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 20
A6M5 Zero x 104
B6N2 Jill x 25
D4Y3 Judy x 44

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 2
P-38H Lightning x 1
P-47D2 Thunderbolt x 2
F4U-1 Corsair x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 4 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 11 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Washington, Bomb hits 5, on fire
CA Sussex, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Fletcher, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Duncan, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Abbot, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
23 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 12000 feet
12 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
25 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
4 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
16 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
1 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
17 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 12000 feet
6 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
12 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
19 x A6M5 Zero sweeping at 12000 feet
8 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

Still too aenemic!1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Boela at 78,113

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 16
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 3
Ki-84a Frank x 9

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 18
F6F-3 Hellcat x 58
SBD-5 Dauntless x 26
TBF-1 Avenger x 8
TBM-1C Avenger x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed by flak
SBD-5 Dauntless: 3 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 2 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
DD Hayashimo, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Hamanami, on fire
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage

And then the allied DS pounded my wounded ships...Mutsu has 80 flt and 50 fires... Nagato 70 flt and 30 fires...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Kai-eilanden (81,115)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 22790 troops, 347 guns, 302 vehicles, Assault Value = 732

Defending force 8096 troops, 79 guns, 13 vehicles, Assault Value = 280

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 1078

Japanese adjusted defense: 757

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1018 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 64 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
387 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled

Assaulting units:
754th Tank Battalion
9th Australian/A Division
Americal Infantry Division
II Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
9th Australian/B Division
I Australian Corps

Defending units:
15th Garrison Unit
1st Indpt SNLF Coy
32nd Nav Gsn Unit
20th/C Division

The island is doomed

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 6/5/2013 2:56:17 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 2773

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 2:58:48 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Massive carnage, but my first impression on reading this was that either side can come away feeling good. You related the heavy damage you suffered, but man, Q-Ball took some too.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2774

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 2:59:09 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Sorry for the delay guys. Having some harsh problems at work...cops etc... it's one of those aspects of being a lawyer that i really hate.

It's OK, GreyJoy. You can tell us-your loyal readers-the truth though. Was it Berlusconi?

_____________________________

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2775

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:01:08 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

So, the butcher's bill of the day is:

Japan: 1 BB with 2 more left in sinking conditions
4 CAs with 2 more damaged
3 CLs with 1 more damaged
10 DDs with 3 more heavily damaged
460 planes and 350 pilots lost.

Allies: BB Massachusset (with Alabama in sinking conditions and hopefully Washington needing some repair)
1 CAs
Maybe 1 CL
some 8 DDs...
70 planes

No, sorry...I must say this is a clear allied victory

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2776

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:03:10 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Sorry for the delay guys. Having some harsh problems at work...cops etc... it's one of those aspects of being a lawyer that i really hate.

It's OK, GreyJoy. You can tell us-your loyal readers-the truth though. Was it Berlusconi?

LOL...well, if Silvio was one of my client...you can be sure that, by now, I would have sponsored the publishing of WITP II and given Michealm a farm in Australia big as the Maine

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 2777

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:03:58 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

It's OK, GreyJoy. You can tell us-your loyal readers-the truth though. Was it Berlusconi?

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 2778

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:05:52 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Massive carnage, but my first impression on reading this was that either side can come away feeling good. You related the heavy damage you suffered, but man, Q-Ball took some too.

Sure, but he has more material than me, so my losses weight much more than his.
And, above all, my real goal were his APA/AKAs...and Takana left them slip right under his nose... and they were without any cover!!!

The good news is that 3 of his fast BBs are now out of action for some time... but his modern CLs can easily do that job.

Anyway...stormy weather played a big part in those naval battles I think. I tried to wait for this particular condition in order to avoid the massive allied radar advantage...and I think I was right

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 2779

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:07:58 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

The idea was to bombard Molu, while my sweeping CLs were supposed to drive out the enemy SAGs present there...bombard Molu so to give the KB a free shot to all those APAs or, eventually, to his CVs... but simply there were too many SAGs there...and too powerfull...so we never managed to reach the coast of that damned island.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2780

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:09:48 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

Any thing that looks like a draw at this point in the game is an Allied victory as Japan cannot win the 'war of attrition' at sea.

Your SC TF with 3 BBs, 6 CAs, & 9 DDs is too big IMO. I would have formed two TFs with the BBs in one and the CAS in another. Your steady losses in DDs may have come back to bite you here as you may have been forced go go this large.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 6/5/2013 3:10:55 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2781

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:14:58 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Any thing that looks like a draw at this point in the game is an Allied victory as Japan cannot win the 'war of attrition' at sea.

Your SC TF with 3 BBs, 6 CAs, & 9 DDs is too big IMO. I would have formed two TFs with the BBs in one and the CAS in another. Your steady losses in DDs may have come back to bite you here as you may have been forced go go this large.

That is exactly my problem. I cannot efford many small TFs cause I'm way too short of DDs... Brad did a great work in attriting my DDs pool and now i'm really suffering.
However my TF perfomed quite well imho. Brad really had the best of his surface force there.

I know it's an allied victory and I know I was risking. However, at this point of the game, the more I wait to fight, the more Brad becomes stronger...so, sooner or later, I had to take my chances.

Now the door is really open. My navy is shattered. My air army is shattered. My KB is halved in terms of strength (and performed so badly, lately, that I really don't know if it's worth the investment).

Mindanao is much closer now....

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 2782

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:46:23 PM

kjnoel

Posts: 104
Joined: 3/10/2011
Status: offline

How much of KB's (and indeed your LBA) performance could be due to using the beta? I don't use it and hope it doesn't go gold in its current form because it models stragglers and un-coordinated strikes well but it doesn't balance it against an "out of position CAP", as far as I can see from the peanut gallery anyway.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2783

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 3:51:07 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kjnoel

How much of KB's (and indeed your LBA) performance could be due to using the beta? I don't use it and hope it doesn't go gold in its current form because it models stragglers and un-coordinated strikes well but it doesn't balance it against an "out of position CAP", as far as I can see from the peanut gallery anyway.

Don't know to be honest. I'd probably need to run this turn under the official patch... but I really do not have the time in this particular moment.
However I still think it works well. Surely CAP becomes much more important than before..you simply have to change your way of playing and adapt to this new system. Overall, air battles are imho much better rapresented

(in reply to kjnoel)

Post #: 2784

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 4:09:06 PM

Wuffer

Posts: 402
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline

At least you will save a lot of fuel now.
About the KB pilots... I hope you will unleash the real bad boyz now.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2785

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 4:13:13 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

Agree with NY59Giants and also agree with your assessment. It goes back to the old UV days but one of the devs clearly stated then that the optimum size for a surface force in a night battle is around 6-8 ships. Any more and some of them just do not shoot so you are basically risking ships for no return. And it only makes sense that the larger TFs are going to have an easier time getting spotted. I also never use old BBs in night actions and only like to use modern BBs when the moonlight is very strong. At 3,000 yards range the old BBs frequently do not even shoot and in 1/43 the Americans now have working torpedoes that seem to hunt down slow BBs fairly well. Plus your TF is traveling at the speed of the slowest ship in it, making old BBs more of a liability.

But your lack of DD escort is a problem so I understand your reasoning. Plus, I agree that now is the time to stop the Allies. Your fleet just grows redundant as he grows stronger. To make matters worse, his crew exp for arriving warships jumps dramatically next month. As the Allies, I have not lost many surface fights in the later half of the war.

Oddly, Though I found your TFs were too large but some of Brads were too small. I don't think I would have sent to modern BBs in with only four DDs as escort. But his use of multiple TFs really messed you up. Except for the fact that he really needs to stop losing BBs he seems to be in a very strong position.

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Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2786

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 4:16:03 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

I think this leave you in pretty good shape. The one thing you can trade 1-1 right now is BB's Particularly if you are losing an old one and he is losing a new one. Right now you probably have more BB's & CA's than he does and your CA's are very good. His CL's are very good but it doesn't look like he can reload with more BB's and come back this way again. It will take a long time to fix them and he doesn't have the proper dry-dock anywhere close. BTW, don't count on bomb hits on new BB's doing much damage. They tend to do system damage but they rarely pierce armor.

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 6/5/2013 4:18:14 PM >

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(in reply to Wuffer)

Post #: 2787

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 4:25:01 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

I agree with John. I think there's too much of a tendency for good players to focus on their own ills and problems and perhaps not to see the good they've done and the problems endured by their opponent.

I don't read many AARs. What I do read is nearly all Allied-side stuff. But I've played the game long enough to have developed a feeling that GJ has handled Japan about as well as possible. He started slow. He didn't put himself in a position to shoot for auto vic or to achieve sexy and pleasurable conquests of major land masses. As a consequence, intended or not, he had the time and ability and resources to develop strong defenses. He has since effectively stymied and bloodied and frustrated Q-Ball exceptionally well, IMO.

Okay, Japan is beginning to run low on resources. Big whoop! Would it be better if GJ had all his DDs and CAs and aircraft but only to see Brad right now at Morotai and Davao? Of course not. Brad has to be pulling out his hair and the reason for that is GreyJoy.

Seriously. This isn't GJ's first game as Japan (and second overall), is it? GJ is really a ghost name for one of our most experienced players, right? I mean, isn't it possible that I am actually GJ? Or Poultry Lad? Or perhaps Q-Ball, playing himself in a weird and twisted way?

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 2788

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 4:29:45 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

GreyJoy has to be commended for his resilience. He's a brilliant player, a handsome man, an incredible attorney and, I'm sure, a wonderful dancer*.

*Disclaimer in case his client was really Berlusconi. I could use an annual WiTP:AE retainer.

_____________________________

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 2789

RE: The Clash of Titans...another allied victory? - 6/5/2013 4:53:47 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I think this leave you in pretty good shape. The one thing you can trade 1-1 right now is BB's Particularly if you are losing an old one and he is losing a new one. Right now you probably have more BB's & CA's than he does and your CA's are very good. His CL's are very good but it doesn't look like he can reload with more BB's and come back this way again. It will take a long time to fix them and he doesn't have the proper dry-dock anywhere close. BTW, don't count on bomb hits on new BB's doing much damage. They tend to do system damage but they rarely pierce armor.

His loss of BBs is serious but don't over rate the value to the Allies of these ships. For two reasons.

The Allies actually get a lot more of them. More than they will need So although severe, Brad's losses won't impact him that much.

Second, the flood of high quality DDs and CAs and CLs that the Allies start to get in 44 make BBs redundant. Frankly after 44, I rarely sent Allied BBs into combat anyway. No need to. Modern Fletchers with advanced radar and working torpedoes are all you need to deal with Japanese surface forces. My Allied BBs are there to support landings and soak up air attacks meant for carriers. Those Allied players who make it well into 1944 know how deadly the Allied surface fleet becomes.

Brad has made some tactical mistakes that has cost him in surface ships but he has kept his carrier force intact while killing off a substantial portion of GJs crack pilots. Greyjoy has himself pointed this out. Those carriers are what will matter in 1944.

As for the recent action, in my opinion the loss of BBs on both sides does not matter one bit. However, the loss of four CAs and another ten DDs for GJ is brutal as he has pointed out.

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I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 2790