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Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 5:10:09 AM

KPAX

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Darwin was taken in Jan 1942 and I have held him at Katherine. That is the only spot he has and supplies in OZ are decent.

I cannot get any supplies to run up there. I have stockpiled on, but none move.

What is the deal?

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Thanks !!

KPAX

Post #: 1

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 5:14:22 AM

wdolson

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From: Near Portland, OR
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Supply is moving down a long dirt road from Alice Springs. Only a trickle of supply is capable of moving down that road.

Bill

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RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 8:06:50 AM

JeffroK

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Only way is to fly it in , generally from Alice Springs.

Start chewing at the edges, either Pt Hedland, Broome, Wyndham or Normanton, Groote Eylandt, Gove and make him nervous about his reAR.

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Post #: 3

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 10:08:07 AM

Reg

Posts: 2787
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From: NSW, Australia
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Even in the eighties, you couldn't get a pizza (or anything else for that matter) in Katherine on a Saturday night after 8pm.....

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Reg.

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Post #: 4

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 10:10:16 AM

Reg

Posts: 2787
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From: NSW, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Supply is moving down a long dirt road from Alice Springs. Only a trickle of supply is capable of moving down that road.

Bill

I don't think you could have even called it a road until the US Army ran a grader over it.....

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Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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Post #: 5

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 10:16:48 AM

wdolson

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From: Near Portland, OR
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I know someone who was a cop out there about 6 years ago. He and another cop were the only two in an area the size of Texas. He was based in Balgo. Taking a prisoner to the "local" jail was an over night trip. Even in this century, the roads became impassible by any vehicle in the rainy season and a 4 wheel drive on even the best roads was a necessity.

When he came to the US and drove in snow and ice for the first time he thought it was a piece of cake compared to those roads.

Bill

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Post #: 6

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 1:07:50 PM

KPAX

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From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
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Awesome advise.

Gosh I want to visit OZ some day. We, Yanks love you guys! We are so much a like and consider you a great allie.

Thanks you OZ.

Back to the post .... So, he will have a very hard time supplying his troops as well, right? There are really nothing there which will support him. So, he has to ship it in as well?

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Thanks !!

KPAX

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Post #: 7

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 3:12:01 PM

crsutton

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From: Maryland
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The good news is that he will have just as much trouble pushing supplies past Katherine should it fall. But it is tough to support any more than a couple of divisions over the overland route. If you want to retake Darwin in 43 then you had best plan on going the sea route.

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Post #: 8

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 3:34:18 PM

Schanilec

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From: Grand Forks, ND
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I know someone who was a cop out there about 6 years ago. He and another cop were the only two in an area the size of Texas. He was based in Balgo. Taking a prisoner to the "local" jail was an over night trip. Even in this century, the roads became impassible by any vehicle in the rainy season and a 4 wheel drive on even the best roads was a necessity.

When he came to the US and drove in snow and ice for the first time he thought it was a piece of cake compared to those roads.

Bill

Of course that depends on where in the country the snow and ice is.

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Post #: 9

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 6:18:56 PM

Chris21wen

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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Put the AUS command HQ in Alice. Set supply in Alice to max. This will then get to Katherine and beyond when needed but it is down a dirt track. Katherine should be set to stockpile.

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Post #: 10

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 6:42:12 PM

AW1Steve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Put the AUS command HQ in Alice. Set supply in Alice to max. This will then get to Katherine and beyond when needed but it is down a dirt track. Katherine should be set to stockpile.

I've been able to build up a massive stock pile in Alice Springs doing this. And I have engineers in Alice,Katherine, and in Tenant creek building like mad. I still don't have much in either Tenant creek or Katherine and have been flying supplies like mad into both. Perhaps I should put the head quarters in Katherine or Tenants?

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RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 6:44:05 PM

AW1Steve

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The Australian Army surveyed the route for a railroad in spring 1942. There is one there now. Surely this route can't be worse than the ALCAN highway?

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Post #: 12

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/10/2012 10:59:58 PM

Reg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

The Australian Army surveyed the route for a railroad in spring 1942. There is one there now. Surely this route can't be worse than the ALCAN highway?

Technically it's not that difficult (apart from the huge distances). The issue was resources. There just wasn't the engineers, plant, equipment and materials (& time) in country for such a massive undertaking. 2000km of virgin railway... How long did it take to get a railway across America?

Whilst the additional resources could have been shipped in, it would have diverted resources from elsewhere and obviously wasn't considered a high enough priority. After all Darwin is not on the direct route to Tokyo.

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Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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Post #: 13

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/11/2012 12:25:10 AM

wdolson

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From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I know someone who was a cop out there about 6 years ago. He and another cop were the only two in an area the size of Texas. He was based in Balgo. Taking a prisoner to the "local" jail was an over night trip. Even in this century, the roads became impassible by any vehicle in the rainy season and a 4 wheel drive on even the best roads was a necessity.

When he came to the US and drove in snow and ice for the first time he thought it was a piece of cake compared to those roads.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec
Of course that depends on where in the country the snow and ice is.

Mt Hood, Cascade Range in Oregon. He was going to Timberline Lodge at Christmas time. Timberline is high enough altitude it's the only year round ski area in North America. I've been there in August. The snow line was above the lodge, but it was only a short hike to get to it.

Bill

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Post #: 14

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/11/2012 3:02:35 PM

Chris21wen

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Put the AUS command HQ in Alice. Set supply in Alice to max. This will then get to Katherine and beyond when needed but it is down a dirt track. Katherine should be set to stockpile.

I've been able to build up a massive stock pile in Alice Springs doing this. And I have engineers in Alice,Katherine, and in Tenant creek building like mad. I still don't have much in either Tenant creek or Katherine and have been flying supplies like mad into both. Perhaps I should put the head quarters in Katherine or Tenants?

If you're building you won't get much, whatever gets there by the dirt track is mostly used by the building. In my game, all-be-it against the AI and without an invasion it worked but with some experimentation.

I had a command HQ in Alice and a Corp HQ in Darwin, I increased supply to all the bases in N Aus connected by the track (nine in total) but not by the same amount using percentage/step. Those at the end of the line had the least (Broome, Wyndham, Darwin), those closest to Alice (Tennant) most. I used these setting in supply request steps

Broome, Wyndham, Dawrin 1 (set to stockpile)
Derby 2
Nookanbah 3
Fenton 2
Kathering 3
Daly Waters 4
Tennant 8

I was able to build up supply to all bases in North Aus doing this despite building, it wasn't quick but it did work. I aslo flew stuff in.

(in reply to AW1Steve)

Post #: 15

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/11/2012 4:32:27 PM

Dobey455

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I know someone who was a cop out there about 6 years ago. He and another cop were the only two in an area the size of Texas. He was based in Balgo. Taking a prisoner to the "local" jail was an over night trip. Even in this century, the roads became impassible by any vehicle in the rainy season and a 4 wheel drive on even the best roads was a necessity.

When he came to the US and drove in snow and ice for the first time he thought it was a piece of cake compared to those roads.

Bill

I've supported IT for the Police out at Balgo. Even as little as 18 months ago if a phone line goes down out there they are without comms for a good week, or more. The telco provider (Telstra's) response to our query about why they couldn't meet their SLA to restore service was "Well, what do you expect us to do, send a helicopter out there?"

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 16

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/11/2012 5:11:57 PM

crsutton

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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Put the AUS command HQ in Alice. Set supply in Alice to max. This will then get to Katherine and beyond when needed but it is down a dirt track. Katherine should be set to stockpile.

Yes, this all helps but you still have to be careful of how many troops you plan on supporting. Also if you set Katherine to stockpile, no supply will leave Katherine so you will be less able to supply troops anywhere near Katherine.

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Post #: 17

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/11/2012 6:33:20 PM

Cap Mandrake

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I agree with CR. PRETEND you are going to attack Darwin from the South, induce the defenders to move South and then take it by sea.

Of course, you need to do a little prep work first.

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Post #: 18

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/12/2012 4:11:23 AM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I know someone who was a cop out there about 6 years ago. He and another cop were the only two in an area the size of Texas. He was based in Balgo. Taking a prisoner to the "local" jail was an over night trip. Even in this century, the roads became impassible by any vehicle in the rainy season and a 4 wheel drive on even the best roads was a necessity.

When he came to the US and drove in snow and ice for the first time he thought it was a piece of cake compared to those roads.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dobey
I've supported IT for the Police out at Balgo. Even as little as 18 months ago if a phone line goes down out there they are without comms for a good week, or more. The telco provider (Telstra's) response to our query about why they couldn't meet their SLA to restore service was "Well, what do you expect us to do, send a helicopter out there?"

Small world. Even most Australians haven't heard of Balgo. The guy I knew was named Nigel Butler. He left around 2006 or 2007. He has some funny stories about his time in the middle of the outback.

Bill

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Post #: 19

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/12/2012 5:37:26 AM

jmalter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes, this all helps but you still have to be careful of how many troops you plan on supporting. Also if you set Katherine to stockpile, no supply will leave Katherine so you will be less able to supply troops anywhere near Katherine.

Alfred corrected me on this awhile back - if base is set to stockpile supply, it WILL continue to supply troops in the field in nearby hexes, but it WON'T xfer supply to other bases.

if you click on a base hex and hit hotkey '5', numbers will appear, that'll give you an idea of how much supply a hex can draw from the base. these #s appear to be percentages, but i don't know what they are percentaging!

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 20

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/12/2012 7:48:10 AM

Chris21wen

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Put the AUS command HQ in Alice. Set supply in Alice to max. This will then get to Katherine and beyond when needed but it is down a dirt track. Katherine should be set to stockpile.

Yes, this all helps but you still have to be careful of how many troops you plan on supporting. Also if you set Katherine to stockpile, no supply will leave Katherine so you will be less able to supply troops anywhere near Katherine.

True but I'm assuming Katherine was the end of the chain, if it's Fenton then Fenton should be set to stockpile.

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Post #: 21

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/12/2012 3:34:34 PM

crsutton

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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Yes, this all helps but you still have to be careful of how many troops you plan on supporting. Also if you set Katherine to stockpile, no supply will leave Katherine so you will be less able to supply troops anywhere near Katherine.

Alfred corrected me on this awhile back - if base is set to stockpile supply, it WILL continue to supply troops in the field in nearby hexes, but it WON'T xfer supply to other bases.

if you click on a base hex and hit hotkey '5', numbers will appear, that'll give you an idea of how much supply a hex can draw from the base. these #s appear to be percentages, but i don't know what they are percentaging!

I was not aware of this. But I don't argue with Alfred...

I will try the hotkey next time I fire up my game.

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Post #: 22

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/12/2012 9:19:36 PM

jmalter

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another thing to watch out for is spoilage - a base whose AF+P size is small doesn't have the capacity to store much fuel or supply. check the top right of the base screen for storage limits. if you've used the supply-amnt arrows to increase a base's draw past what it can store, some of that arriving supply is just going straight down the sewer.

in my game, i just found out that Loyang's high troop count and AF=1 was spoiling supply, particularly maddening given the amount of time & transport ops-losses i've put into the Ledo air-bridge. even mighty CONUS is not immune, as i develop the Oregon & NoCal airbases for ASW coverage, i punched up the supply-draw w/o regard for spoilage. oops!

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Post #: 23

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/13/2012 3:18:39 AM

AW1Steve

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From: Mordor Illlinois
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So in short, if I understand correctly. You can't improve the road/railroad/cattle trail. What you got is what you got. You really can't improve the supply situation except by flying it in. Is that right?

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RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/13/2012 4:10:18 AM

JeffroK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

I know someone who was a cop out there about 6 years ago. He and another cop were the only two in an area the size of Texas. He was based in Balgo. Taking a prisoner to the "local" jail was an over night trip. Even in this century, the roads became impassible by any vehicle in the rainy season and a 4 wheel drive on even the best roads was a necessity.

When he came to the US and drove in snow and ice for the first time he thought it was a piece of cake compared to those roads.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dobey
I've supported IT for the Police out at Balgo. Even as little as 18 months ago if a phone line goes down out there they are without comms for a good week, or more. The telco provider (Telstra's) response to our query about why they couldn't meet their SLA to restore service was "Well, what do you expect us to do, send a helicopter out there?"

Small world. Even most Australians haven't heard of Balgo. The guy I knew was named Nigel Butler. He left around 2006 or 2007. He has some funny stories about his time in the middle of the outback.

Bill

And all Yanquis know the location of every location in the USA.

Plus anyone who lives near Wolf Creek must have rocks in their heads.

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Post #: 25

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/13/2012 8:48:20 AM

Chris21wen

Posts: 6249
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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

So in short, if I understand correctly. You can't improve the road/railroad/cattle trail. What you got is what you got. You really can't improve the supply situation except by flying it in. Is that right?

Correct. No Burma Rd either or any of the other road/rail construction that occured.

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Post #: 26

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/13/2012 11:40:44 AM

LargeSlowTarget

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From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
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No help for your current game, but in a mod you could upgrade minor roads to a major road or even a railway with pwhexeditor. Then with the normal editor you could set a supply cap at the bases along the road (even add more bases if necessary) in order to limit the amount of supplies being transported through the hex each day. In the game you could then use Eng units to build-up the bases over time (sort of simulating infrastructure improvements including road / rail construction) which increases the supply cap. Each additional level of airbase, port or fort will increase the supply cap by its value. So a dot base without fortifications could be set with a supply cap of e.g. 100, when building a level 1 airbase the supply cap would be 200, with level 2 airbase = 300 and so on. By defining the maximum potential base sizes you could regulate the maximum supply cap. By using potential bases sizes for port in landlocked hexes instead of or in combination with air base potentials you could avoid an overabundance of airbases resp. overly large airbase sizes in terrain not suited. Some house rules would be necessary, e.g. limiting the use of forts or no strategic movement of units along major road / railway until all bases along the route have reached a certain size. By bombing the bases, the opponent could slow constructions (repairs come first) and interdict supplies (supply hits). I'm experimenting with this in my mod, but it is a slow process due to RL restraints and I can't tell yet whether it works. Perhaps someone else has tried this and can comment?

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Post #: 27

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/13/2012 12:08:49 PM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
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From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

And all Yanquis know the location of every location in the USA.

Plus anyone who lives near Wolf Creek must have rocks in their heads.

No insult or broad generalizations intended. I was trying to say (not very well) that Balgo is a very small place in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see it's picture next to the definition of the middle of nowhere in the dictionary.

I was just a bit surprised to come across someone who had done any work connected with the place.

Bill

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Post #: 28

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/13/2012 3:04:08 PM

Dobey455

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

And all Yanquis know the location of every location in the USA.

Plus anyone who lives near Wolf Creek must have rocks in their heads.

No insult or broad generalizations intended. I was trying to say (not very well) that Balgo is a very small place in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see it's picture next to the definition of the middle of nowhere in the dictionary.

I was just a bit surprised to come across someone who had done any work connected with the place.

Bill

To be honest I think you're assessment is pretty much spot on Bill. The NT and NW Western Australia are full of little "dot towns" that most people here have never heard of, let alone overseas.

Had I not worked in my previous role I would probably never have heard of it either.

To make a game relevant comment - anyone who has been in that part of the country will appreciate the utter impossibility of marching a sizeable army through that area and maintaining it for any length of time.

< Message edited by Dobey -- 7/13/2012 3:05:31 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Katherine, OZ - supplies - 7/13/2012 3:26:42 PM

AW1Steve

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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dobey

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

And all Yanquis know the location of every location in the USA.

Plus anyone who lives near Wolf Creek must have rocks in their heads.

No insult or broad generalizations intended. I was trying to say (not very well) that Balgo is a very small place in the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised to see it's picture next to the definition of the middle of nowhere in the dictionary.

I was just a bit surprised to come across someone who had done any work connected with the place.

Bill

To be honest I think you're assessment is pretty much spot on Bill. The NT and NW Western Australia are full of little "dot towns" that most people here have never heard of, let alone overseas.

Had I not worked in my previous role I would probably never have heard of it either.

To make a game relevant comment - anyone who has been in that part of the country will appreciate the utter impossibility of marching a sizeable army through that area and maintaining it for any length of time.

I'll have to take your word for it guys.They can criss-cross the Sahara , the can fight in New Guinea, go up and down accross Burma, Build the Ledo road,build the Transcontinental and Trans Siberian railroad, the Japanese can build a railroad across most of Thailand with hand tools (and slave labor), and the USA/Canadians can build in two years the ALCAN highway, but apparently the Ozzie outback beats them all. I'll have to see it someday.

Everybody says the road to Japan does NOT go through Darwin, but if you COULD supply it , I see a marvelous place for airfields to cover the leap frog camapign back into the DEI. My thoughts is , since that's why Japan fought the war to begin it , what better place to try to take away from her and make her pay through the nose to defend? I guess I'm thinking too much Sun Tzu and not enough Jomini and Clauzwitz.

What I feel is the limiting factor is not the strategy, the terain or ability, but the limitations of the game engine. THAT I can appreciate and accept. And until I learn to properly mod the editor (and find a PBEM opponent that's willing to let me try out my theory), I'll have to live with it.

Many,many thanks for gold information nuggets!