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About SOP - 8/31/2012 8:37:43 PM

Jafele

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From: Seville (Spain)
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After reading the manual, I cannot see clearly the difference in rules between agressive, cautious and standard in SOP. Can somebody help me?

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: About SOP - 9/1/2012 2:34:35 AM

Mobius

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I don't know all the internal details of the SOP evaluation but it seems to go like this:
Each unit will give a value and tally all the enemy units that is sees that can threaten it. (This is probably reduced by range.) Then the level of SOP will be checked to see if the tally is higher than that. If it is the unit will move (halt then reverse) away. So if you want the highest level put the SOP on aggressive. If you want the lowest where maybe just one or two threatening visible enemy units make your unit skedaddle put it on cautious.

(in reply to Jafele)

Post #: 2

RE: About SOP - 9/1/2012 4:59:31 AM

rickier65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele

After reading the manual, I cannot see clearly the difference in rules between agressive, cautious and standard in SOP. Can somebody help me?

Thanks

Cautious SOP would be good if you wanted one of your units to scout out a position. If your moving forward willing to engage but you don't want to be a super-hero against large odds, then use Standard SOP. If you need to advance (or you can't afford to lose a position), set your SOP to aggressive.

As Mobius said, the SOP setting affects how quickly a unit will withdraw from units it sights. as you change the setting from cautious to standard to aggressive, the unit will be able to hold it's order against an increasing number of enemy units that it sights.

Thanks
rick

(in reply to Jafele)

Post #: 3

RE: About SOP - 9/1/2012 12:10:39 PM

Jafele

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Ok. So an unit with aggresive SOP will usually continue to follow orders when faced contact with enemy; in standard mode will halt and in cautious will tend to withdraw. Is it correct?

(in reply to rickier65)

Post #: 4

RE: About SOP - 9/1/2012 3:44:20 PM

Mobius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele
Ok. So an unit with aggresive SOP will usually continue to follow orders when faced contact with enemy; in standard mode will halt and in cautious will tend to withdraw. Is it correct?

No. The difference is the amount of enemy threat that will affect the unit. If the level is reached the same result always happens. The unit will reverse.
Well, that's the way it seems to me. Only Stridor really knows.

(in reply to Jafele)

Post #: 5

RE: About SOP - 9/2/2012 6:11:29 AM

Mad Russian

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From my own experiences:

Aggressive SOP - the unit does what it is told.

Standard SOP - the unit will do what it's told unless it starts taking a lot of fire that could destroy it.

Cautious SOP - the unit will usually withdraw when it makes contact.

Hope that helps.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 9/2/2012 6:12:26 AM >

_____________________________

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Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
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(in reply to Mobius)

Post #: 6

RE: About SOP - 9/3/2012 9:25:50 PM

Yoozername

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I like the 'SOP' feature but technically, it is not SOP. It really is more akin to orders.

SOP are things that are in effect in the absense of orders. Things such as 'Use HVAP at ranges no more than 500 meters' or 'Fire LMG on bipods in 6-8 round bursts' or 'When on guard duty, and someone does not provide the correct password, shoot them in the face', etc.

I would like to have some feature whereby I could set SOP before the battle. Set ranges for weapons and the method of attacking targets. An example is the range setting for special ammo HVAP given above. Another could be ... Use alternating AP and HE vs. buildings, etc. It would add another dimension to gameplay.

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 7

RE: About SOP - 9/6/2012 10:54:29 AM

Jafele

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While I was playing in campaing mode, a russian infantryman left his foxhole and started to run as my big army was approaching, there was no combat. I suppose it was a morale check caused by fear and influenced by SOP.

< Message edited by Jafele -- 9/6/2012 10:55:04 AM >

(in reply to Yoozername)

Post #: 8

RE: About SOP - 9/6/2012 4:06:47 PM

rickier65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele

While I was playing in campaing mode, a russian infantryman left his foxhole and started to run as my big army was approaching, there was no combat. I suppose it was a morale check caused by fear and influenced by SOP.

Yes, that's right, SOP is the likely reason. Cautious or Standard SOP settings can be useful in setting up observation posts to locate the enemy without leaving the unit exposed and unable to retreat until a following phase.

Thanks
Rick

(in reply to Jafele)

Post #: 9

RE: About SOP - 9/6/2012 8:18:06 PM

Andy Brown

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Do any other tactical computer games feature morale checks BEFORE a unit gets shot at (a good thing, IMO)?

I know that, in CM, units sometimes plot there own moves but I can't remember if that happens only after they've taken fire.

Andy

(in reply to rickier65)

Post #: 10

RE: About SOP - 9/7/2012 1:28:52 AM

Stridor

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It was so long ago that I wrote it and I don't have the source any more so can't confirm 100% but these are (some) of the factors which get taken into account for "SOP" (Yoozer is right it is not technically SOP but the name/idea/menu space constraints kinda stuck)

0.1 Hz decision cycle (ie ~ 4 SOP decisions made in each 40 sec phase)
Which enemies can see me? (infantry hiding in long grass can sneak up on vehicles)
How much fire against me last phase?
Can they hurt me / Can I hurt them ratio? (takes into account range)
How much remaining ammo?
Current damage status?
Current suppression status?
Original leader alive/incapacitated?
A natural hero -- coward spectrum factor (which isn't displayed - how would you know anyway?)
A small random factor (which explains why a unit may not break for 3 SOP cycles but will on the 4th all other conditions being equal)
Obviously the SOP setting.
And probably several other factors I don't recall right now like ?nationality?

So units can SOP withdraw without taking any fire if they feel the threat(s) bad enough depending on the setting.

You can play with SOP off which essentially bypasses all the SOP code and so plays vanilla.

I remember that we balanced SOP quite a bit, but obviously the unit reaction will always come down to interpretation. There was no extensive psychological research done on how different WW2 soldiers react in the face of varying threat levels. But the system does allow a degree of user control, unit heroism (or cowardice) and often little interesting vignettes.

S.

(in reply to Andy Brown)

Post #: 11

RE: About SOP - 9/7/2012 8:32:32 AM

Jafele

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From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline

This is the firt time I play with SOP activated, I�m really loving it

. As far as I know there is no other computer game with this feature. Absolutely original and realistic the variety of factors of this rule. Surely units that flee in panic without a fight were common during the war: Imagine the morale of a soldier alone surrounded by a lot of enemy tanks. I will always play with SOP activated.