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RE: Bomburs GD Mod

 
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RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 10/16/2012 3:45:46 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		The Koreans produce for Japan, but the Chinese do not. There must be some sort of table regarding who might produce for who.

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History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

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Post #: 31
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 10/16/2012 7:54:00 PM   
ghoward

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		There is a question mark button on the top of main map page up where the current player info is. That will take you to the "who loves you" charts.

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Post #: 32
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 10/17/2012 7:23:16 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Ahh got it, thanks.

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History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 33
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 10/19/2012 8:01:01 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		My house remodel has claimed this game as it's newest victim. I had to close up the laptop and get it out of the way of the carpet crew, I'll resume it later, when the carpet crew get finished in my house.


_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 34
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 10/24/2012 8:14:20 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		I was recently able to get the "Infantry III" tech bin for a discounted rate, from 400 to 360. This happened literally while I was watching it from turn to turn. So, the AI is out there plodding through this stuff as much as me. I haven't seen any aircraft yet at all, and nothing beyond "Vehicles I" from the Chinese.

I still hold the Hadrian-esqe line at Pyongyang and in fact I'm whittling the atackers down a bit so they became discouraged and stopped attacking. I hammer the snot out of them with my two navy fleets. I continue to upgrade cities all over the island chain that surround the home islands. They are Japanese native so they will eventually produce stuff.

With the situation in China and Korea more or less stabilized, my thoughts are again turning to the Indonesian holdings of the European Colonials. I do want to avoid a fight with the British, but the French and the Beneluxians and to a lesser extent the Germans are all prime targets for a new rising sun blitz.

I took the Chinese island of Taiwan, or whatever it's called in the game and killed off a huge force of cargoships and about 9 cruisers without firing a single shot from the naval guns. They had an empty HQ sitting there as the only land unit on the island and I swept in with a small force and HQ of my own and captured it all without a fight. Do I feel dirty ? Yes, but after a shower I will feel better, the AI will still be stupid.

On the timeline, it's getting to be around 1939. It's an intersting world map but going into detail might risk turning this into an AAR.



< Message edited by Jeffrey H. -- 10/26/2012 7:34:18 PM >

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 35
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 10/26/2012 7:33:59 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		I just found that you can see the current value of the techs by selecting the tech from within your "researched" pool. The action card comes up and caries what I think is the current value. Pretty neat. As you might imagine, in the late 1930's first tier techs are not highly valued at all.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 36
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/4/2012 12:37:12 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		The engineering seems to be fairly heavy in this mod, what I mean by that is the quantity of engineers required to get a job done is very high relative to other mods. Given the 90 day turns, I'm wondering what sort of typical road crew work rate could be expected in the time frame of the early to mid 1900's. So that's the next thing to look into.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 37
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/9/2012 12:44:50 AM   
ghoward

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		Before I started my current game, I increased the EP accumulation max turns (how many EPs an engineer can "hold") from 5 to 20 turns so fewer engineers taking longer could get some of the more massive projects done. (major city takes 1400 EP for instance). I also improved their ability to entrench mostly to help the AI (who always seems to build scads of engineers). I think this is working ok, but next time I will make Civil Engineering units (next to no combat or movement capability, but long EP accumulation time for resource and city upgrade projects--think targets for your bombers here) and return combat engineers to their former 5 turn limit. I will keep the idea of rapid entrenchment for combat engineers so that a unit with a lots of engineers can build a quick defensive position.

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 38
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/9/2012 6:51:49 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
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From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barerabbit

Before I started my current game, I increased the EP accumulation max turns (how many EPs an engineer can "hold") from 5 to 20 turns so fewer engineers taking longer could get some of the more massive projects done. (major city takes 1400 EP for instance). I also improved their ability to entrench mostly to help the AI (who always seems to build scads of engineers). I think this is working ok, but next time I will make Civil Engineering units (next to no combat or movement capability, but long EP accumulation time for resource and city upgrade projects--think targets for your bombers here) and return combat engineers to their former 5 turn limit. I will keep the idea of rapid entrenchment for combat engineers so that a unit with a lots of engineers can build a quick defensive position.


Yes, exactly what is needed. A separate unit for civil and combat engineering.

There seems to be two factors in the current game, that is accumulation rate and a maximum value per unit. Both of which, I htink, need a review.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 39
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/9/2012 8:19:48 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		To install the mod do I use the install function or manually do it?

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Post #: 40
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/9/2012 11:47:23 PM   
ghoward

 

Posts: 147
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Status: offline 		Hi twotribes. This isn't a posted mod anyplace. What I did was to edit GDATG108.at2 to make the engineering changes along with converting torpedo boats to patrol boats (fast, good recon, VERY short range, and no match for a real warship) and halve the cost and land cap of trains. This last was to make the long range shipment of large units possible by temporarily including trains in their makeup. I haven't implemented the civil engineer idea yet as I am in the middle of a game using what I have so far. I do have this version of the scenario set so you can edit mid-game, but I think there are some issues involved with using that technique. I am happy to email the altered version to anyone who wants to mess with it, but it is by no means a finished effort. All you would do is load it like any other scenario.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 41
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/10/2012 1:59:20 AM   
Twotribes


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From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		I meant the basic mod. do you use manual or will it load properly?

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Post #: 42
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/10/2012 4:04:35 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Hrrm, if it's not in a zip form I guess you have to manually load it like in old AT. I honestly forget how I got it going.


_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 43
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/10/2012 10:02:33 PM   
ghoward

 

Posts: 147
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Status: offline 		I think I did it manually.

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Post #: 44
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/11/2012 6:17:32 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		It's 1944 in my game and Japan has held onto Korea and taken Indonesia from the beneleaux-ians and the British. I have expanded into China to my old watermark. I don't see the huge zerg rush coming this time. I have reconcile planes scouting ahead for trouble. Finally I have troop transports to send all those enginners over to China to build up infrastructure needed to keep a foothold in expand in China.

All Japanese cities are boosted into major status. I am also boosting Korean and Indonesian cities because they produce for me. I've been slaughtering dozens and dozens of English transports because they annoy the HELL out of me and soak up all sorts of time for the ai to fart around with.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 45
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/11/2012 7:08:39 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barerabbit

Hi twotribes. This isn't a posted mod anyplace. What I did was to edit GDATG108.at2 to make the engineering changes along with converting torpedo boats to patrol boats (fast, good recon, VERY short range, and no match for a real warship) and halve the cost and land cap of trains. This last was to make the long range shipment of large units possible by temporarily including trains in their makeup. I haven't implemented the civil engineer idea yet as I am in the middle of a game using what I have so far. I do have this version of the scenario set so you can edit mid-game, but I think there are some issues involved with using that technique. I am happy to email the altered version to anyone who wants to mess with it, but it is by no means a finished effort. All you would do is load it like any other scenario.



Hi, barerabbit, if you want to upgrade this scenario, I could "give" it to you, in the sense that, when you post your improved version, I remove mine, and then you´re "responsible" for the development of this mod. I don´t have time to upgrade it anymore. I´m currently working with ernie in the GD1938 scenario, while my next Bombur mod is about to have an alpha version release. It will feature lots of custom units in random maps.

Bombur

(in reply to ghoward)
Post #: 46
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/12/2012 2:12:04 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Well rats, it's all over as far as I can tell. The game has locked up and can no longer make it through the AI turns. Boo Hoo, it was just getting nice.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 47
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/12/2012 8:27:31 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		I have a feeling it might be related to the overall unit count which was exploding. The British cargoships I was mowing through had unit id tag#s in the 10,000 range. A game on this scale simply shouldn't have so many units. Especially ones that are loaded with 1 cargoship. Again, the scale of things is kind of out of whack.

Maybe a regional version of the scenario could be carved out and still be manageable without blowing up just when things get interesting.

I did get some good enjoyment out of the game, and was looking forward to many more enjoyable turns. There is a gem in the rough here which can possibly be improved into something even better.

Not sure what I'd do specifically to make positive changes, but I think the time scale can be reduced, unit contruction and sft costs increased, movement rates more proportional to the time scale would be where I would aim for. The research rates are not that far off, it's slow and painful and takes shed loads of engineers, (as discussed above) which I guess is also something I'd aim at changing. But in the end, I was maybe a few tics behind the actual world timelines for weapons development. The AI was more behind and as Bombur has pointed out, that could possibly be improved, maybe by AI role scores ?

I wish it wasn't over so "soon"....



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History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 48
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/12/2012 11:01:47 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Doesn't it start in 01? You played till 44 doesn't sound soon to me )

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Post #: 49
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/12/2012 11:53:58 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Hi, Jeffrey, could you send me your last turn, so I could do some playtesting?

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Post #: 50
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/13/2012 1:56:12 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Hi, Jeffrey, could you send me your last turn, so I could do some playtesting?


Can do, although it locks up when the round is turned over to the AI, so you can't really do much, maybe you'll have some luck with it.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 51
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/13/2012 2:03:29 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		OK, file sent.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 52
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/13/2012 8:00:40 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Doesn't it start in 01? You played till 44 doesn't sound soon to me )



Ya, it was just getting interesting. The sft database goes on much farther into post war techs. I just couldn't get to them.


_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 53
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/13/2012 10:09:45 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		How much EP will a single engineer accumulate at level 1. In other words how many engineers do I need to upgrade a city to a major city?

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Post #: 54
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/14/2012 12:47:40 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Running the turn Jeff sent me, it seems to run well, as for now, Brazil is playing. No memory issues, as the game is eating "only" 830MB RAM. I´m keeping my computer on "underclocking" since my i7 has a dangerous propensity for overheating while running this scenario (this is the reason I stopped playing it). With máx 50% clock it keeps core temperature close to 60C, but it also runs slowly....

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 55
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/14/2012 1:50:15 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Well, after almost 2h...the game finally locked up...not a RAM issue, as it was using less than 500MB RAM. Lock up happened after USA turn, I think

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 56
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/14/2012 7:24:12 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		And that would be GB's turn I think. I still suspect it's a unit count exceeding some limit value hardcoded, (intentionally or not) within the game code.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 57
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/14/2012 7:33:37 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

How much EP will a single engineer accumulate at level 1. In other words how many engineers do I need to upgrade a city to a major city?


The cities took variable amounts at each stage, I think it went something like 400 to 800 to 1600 EP's to get to the highest stage of city development. I think it was taking something like 350 engineers to do the job.

Transporting all these engineers via ocean travel was not possible to do all at once. I was using seacap to strat transfer ~20 per turn from Tokyo to the various places around the empire that I wanted to build up. Also I had built up an early fleet of something like 15 troop transports which could only carry around 120 or so engineers at a time. SO, it was very painful and resource consuming to get those engineers into the cities and then they were stuck there in essence because I couldn't move them. This wasn't so bad because I can and did use them as counter invasion cannon fodder, which they were quite good at.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 58
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/15/2012 12:16:43 AM   
ghoward

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		as the game opens in 1900, it takes 1400 EPs to upgrade to a major city (also 80pp and 560 supply). So if engineers can accumulate for 5 turns, it will take (1400/5) engineers to accumulate the 1400 EPs required.

that was 1400 for a major city. metropolis is 2200, city is 800(I think) the smaller places are less.

< Message edited by barerabbit -- 11/15/2012 12:20:24 AM >

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 59
RE: Bomburs GD Mod - 11/18/2012 12:52:21 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		I could, maybe, upgrade this scenario by removing regimes, going back to 14 players. It also could be possible to increase units cost.

(in reply to ghoward)
Post #: 60
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