Some questions about WitE

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Some questions about WitE - 10/18/2012 1:43:05 PM

SwedenJens

Posts: 29
Joined: 10/18/2012
Status: offline

Hi,

I'm a new Forum member but I've been a reader for some time now. There are some questions I have that I can't find answers for
neither in the Forum or in the manual. I'd Appreciate if you could give me some answers on these questions.

1. What factors should be considered when defending/attacking except for the CV? I usually check: terrain, fatigue, experience, morale,
AT elements if armor is present. Is there anything else you'd recommend I check? I understand that the rifle squads are the core element of the division
but when should the Number of sub-machine gun squads, infantry guns, armored cars etc. be considered? There are so many different types of GE and I love that but it would be nice to know more in detail what you should keep an eye on.

2. What do you use the soviet tank brigades for? I've only played scenarios so far and I've used them to rush in behind enemy lines to do some damage to the supply lines and maybe take some enemy units off the line but since their CV value is so low it feels like it's always a loss.

3. Are fortified regions well spent APs? Their CV value is usually very low. I know you can attach 3 SU to it but is it worth it? I thought it could be good for digging in but the construction value is also very low.

I hope someone here can make me become a better player and I really appreciate your help!
Thanks!

/Jens

Post #: 1

RE: Some questions about WitE - 10/18/2012 3:45:01 PM

turtlefang

Posts: 334
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

1. Primary factors that I consider, and I usually play the Soviets, are, in order of importance: fortification level, terrain, can I be surrounded, likelihood of being pocketed, likely odds of attack, shoulder support, and condition of the unit.

2. I use Soviet tank brigands as a 2nd or, better yet, 3rd line of defense. I will then combine them into a Tank Corp as soon as I can given the logistical support that I have. Sometimes, I might attach 1 or 2 to a tank army as support if I have the command pts but this is rare. Overall, my experience is that they are petty worthless except as a basic building block and last ditch defensive unit. In a lot of cases, I just disband the one's that I don't convert to tank corps to save on trucks and equipment.

3. Soviet Fortified regions are worth their weight in gold in the RIGHT place. But they also cost a LOT of supplies once they are build. Why? They keep improving the hex to the next level of fortification zone up to F5 (and supply use goes way up for each level of fortification), they require a garrison to get the most out of them and help dig, they can't be moved, they required adm and a lot of arm pts to build. Most good players (and don't count me in that group) seem to recommend limiting fortification zones to 10-15 in 1941 in front of Moscow to help defend it. After that, use them carefully.

I have no experience with German fortification zones so can help you here.

(in reply to SwedenJens)

Post #: 2

RE: Some questions about WitE - 10/18/2012 5:21:39 PM

Schmart

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline

1. I go by fortification, morale, and terrain. The order of importance varies. When playing the Russians, I go much more by CV and fortification.

2. I use Tank brigades largely in Reserve Mode to bolster defenses (and attacks as well) and exploit gaps during the first blizzard. Eventually, most get built-up into Tank Corps.

3. I don't use Fort Zones/Regions as combat units. I use them for building up fortification levels or garrisoning fort lines (to avoid degradation). Combat units can only build up to level 2 fortifications and you need Fort Zones to get higher. When building them, I immediately set the max TOE to 50% so as not to suck up too much equipment. I send in infantry to do the actual digging, but the forts are there to get the hex up to level 3 or 4.

(in reply to turtlefang)

Post #: 3

RE: Some questions about WitE - 10/18/2012 8:37:42 PM

timmyab

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline

You kind of get a feel for attacking after a while, it's certainly more of an art than a science and there's always going to be those WTF moments.I think a good rule of thumb is to attack with twice defender's CV.For some reason that I'm not clear about this will normally result in a retreat, usually with final odds inflated well beyond the necessary 2:1.I think the game is too generous to the attacking side.If the attack must succeed try to get 3 to 1 odds, if it's less important 1 to 1 will often work.Generally speaking you want to be fairly certain that an attack is going to succeed, failed attacks are expensive and can hurt morale.You want to be up in about the 80%+ success area, and even higher than that for the German player in the early stages of Barbarossa.Another thing, don't just accept the CV on the enemy unit's counter.Either the base CV or the adjusted CV or both could be false.

Soviet tank brigades are actually very useful.Part of their usefulness is that they're expendable.Along with cavalry divisions (less expendable), in the Summer of 41 they can be used to threaten the flanks of the pz groups especially in the South.Even if they can't cut supply completely they can sometimes reduce it significantly.Another good use for them in 41 is behind rivers in the path of the pz groups.Having to attack these things across a river is unbelievably frustrating for the German player especially if they retreat instead of rout because a mobile division will then have to cross that same river (in enemy ZOC) to deal with them.Brigades probably shouldn't have ZOC, but that's another can of worms.
For the same reason they're also a good way to back up your main line.Put them behind the main line behind a river preferably in good terrain.If there's a breakthrough on that front these brigades will soak up the panzers' MPs and can make all the difference and if they're behind a major river they may even stop them in their tracks.
The ZOC of tank brigades, (and other brigades), is what makes them punch above their weight.

As mentioned already, only build FZs behind the front and where you want to fortify beyond level two.

(in reply to SwedenJens)

Post #: 4

RE: Some questions about WitE - 10/19/2012 12:07:07 PM

swkuh

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline

Meant to say a liitle more than 1st remarks.

I use CVs as a general guide to pick spots to attack, and also to defend, i.e., in defense I want to stack up enough and use a fall back position if that's not possible. Game design makes real enemy CV difficult to estimate,. so recon & evaluation is important. How much CV? experience teaches. Few attacks at best odds seems better than many attacks at poor odds.

Most important factor (after CV) is "morale," which cannot be known for the enemy. But you can know your own forces value.

(in reply to timmyab)

Post #: 5

RE: Some questions about WitE - 10/19/2012 9:45:25 PM

SwedenJens

Posts: 29
Joined: 10/18/2012
Status: offline

Thank you, your replies have been very helpful. But it sounds like you don't care so much about the ground elements? The information about each ground element is very detailed and should be an important factor in the game, am I wrong? An example would be if you face an enemy armor division will it not help to attack/defend with a unit that has plenty and experienced AT-elements? In the same case, could it be preferable to replace a division that has a higher CV with one with a lower CV but with stronger AT elements? I understand that you won't check the elements of every division when you play the campaign, that would take ages, but don't you even consider this when you have an important battle ahead of you? Please let me know your comments on this and if there's anything you think is worth knowing about ground elements I'm happy to hear it.

/Jens

< Message edited by SwedenJens -- 10/19/2012 9:46:25 PM >

(in reply to swkuh)

Post #: 6

RE: Some questions about WitE - 10/19/2012 10:50:24 PM

Schmart

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/13/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline

Yes, to some extent you want to maximize Divisional (or other unit) elements/equipment where and when you can, but as the game is on a operational level (not tactical), these considerations have more operational implications. If the enemy is making a large armoured thrust, then you send more of your anti-armour units and Support Units to that area of the front. If you need to blast through heavy fortifications, then you shift more artillery and engineer resources to that area.

In terms of individual combats, divisions will have very similar levels of elements. One Infantry Division is more or less the same from another (in terms of AT Gun numbers, for example), as long as they have a similar % TOE. It is also situational dependent. In your example, are we talking a Russian Tank Division in 1941 or an SS Panzer Division in 1943? Etc. A Russian Tank Division in 1941 is pretty fragile, and a German Infantry Division on deliberate attack should be able to deal a significant blow to it. An SS Panzer Division in 1943 is going to need a large number of Tank and Mech Corps to do much damage, so in that case I'd rather outmanoeuvre or isolate the SS Division, and damage/destroy it that way.

Ultimately though, yes, individual elements and equipment do play a part in combat, as all elements are calculated and fire in such a manner, so an Infantry Division with 36 AT guns will have a better chance at destroying a larger number of tanks than a Division with only 18 AT guns. But tanks get destroyed in other manners, by infantry, artillery, engineers, aircraft, etc. so it's not only the AT guns that will have an effect on tanks.

Personally, I worry less about the tactical abilities of my units (how many AT guns does the Division have) vs terrain, supply, movement, CV, morale, forts, etc. Some consideration is made to position tank/AT units in areas vs enemy tank units, as well as infantry/artillery/engineers need to deal with entrenched positions.

(in reply to SwedenJens)

Post #: 7