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RE: May 1944 - 2/25/2017 9:37:46 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Recommend an immediate counterlanding with those 5xIDs and TK units. Wipe them out. An ideal opportunity to liquidate an entire high quality division.

ETA: John, this is the reason you have reserves-to take advantage of errors that your opponent makes. No, CR won't always be able to blow through your defenses and build an impenetrable wall, etc., etc. Sometimes he will drop the ball, screw the pooch, land a dog's breakfast, FUBAR, SNAFU and so forth. Punish him severely when he does.


John's points against this idea are solid. Why ever counter land this much force on an island to destroy 1 ID in mid-44???

Dig in, move to defend, not attack. At this point defence in good territory with a few forts is the only thing that'll slow the Allies down.


I'd strongly suggest not to dig in now.

I'd rather urge to move thegreatest number possible of LCUs, with the best fighter cover possible, in Luzon and start attacking. The objective should not be winning the battles per se, but rather to engage CR there and attriting his forces and logistics.
Main reason for this: would you all prefer to fight the US and allies in Philippines or in homeland? Because this is the choice right now.

Regarding the suggested operation at Puerto Princesa: the objective is valid, i.e. to wipe out an allied division and deny the use of the island.
The implementation of such an operation is dependant though by the position of Main US carrier Fleet, which could be well far enough from the island in a week or so from now thus allowing a fast landing, if adequately covered.

In my opinion though, Puerto has a secondary importance over Luzon.

The optimal should be to handle both operatoins simultaneously, if possible by number of LCUs available.

Furthermore, the risk of getting the forces landed at Puerto cutted off and isolated at the coming back of Main US Carrier Fleet is present, but could be worked out.

Finally, this landing shall neverthelees be risky because of the strong enemy land based air forces.

John, if you opt and chioce not to fight in Philippines, you should evacuate Mindanao and everything southern of it (New Guinea, Marshalls, Rabaul, southern DEI Islands etc.) immediately.

This is a decision (either fighting or retreating) that you must take now but not procrastinate any further.


Regarding the use of the fleet: I don't understand why do you keep talking about the "final decisive" clash. Fuel concerns? even so, I'd strongly suggest you not to send the fleet in such an egagement, but rather to keep it.

Please note also that your estimation of 1200 planes in CR's Main Carrier Fleet is in clear defect, the number being easily over 2000, not counting the land based (and not all of those on the available CVEs).

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 2/25/2017 9:41:46 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3331
RE: May 1944 - 2/26/2017 1:09:37 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Build fighters both Japan and Germany learned to late to build fighters. Build them early and use massive sweeps to chew up allied fighters and burn through his pools. He will have to contest or save his air frames early, that will leave your vulnerable bombers a freer hand longer.

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Post #: 3332
RE: May 1944 - 2/26/2017 2:11:43 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Such a divergence of thought in how to Japan should react here. Great stuff!


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Post #: 3333
RE: May 1944 - 2/26/2017 6:45:06 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Build fighters both Japan and Germany learned to late to build fighters. Build them early and use massive sweeps to chew up allied fighters and burn through his pools. He will have to contest or save his air frames early, that will leave your vulnerable bombers a freer hand longer.


Adding to the list. Keep in mind that I had Dan's stockpiles at ZERO just a year ago in summer 1943.

I will edit the starting list with each useful suggestion, observation, and/or experience.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/26/2017 6:46:49 AM >

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(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 3334
RE: May 1944 - 2/26/2017 1:15:49 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
I-46 hits CV Lexington with a single TT.

I-186 hits DD Ammen with a single Torp (probably sinks her) and gets away without damage.


Wonderful! Nice shootin' Tex!

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Post #: 3335
RE: May 1944 - 2/26/2017 1:40:11 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Recommend an immediate counterlanding with those 5xIDs and TK units. Wipe them out. An ideal opportunity to liquidate an entire high quality division.

ETA: John, this is the reason you have reserves-to take advantage of errors that your opponent makes. No, CR won't always be able to blow through your defenses and build an impenetrable wall, etc., etc. Sometimes he will drop the ball, screw the pooch, land a dog's breakfast, FUBAR, SNAFU and so forth. Punish him severely when he does.


John's points against this idea are solid. Why ever counter land this much force on an island to destroy 1 ID in mid-44???

Dig in, move to defend, not attack. At this point defence in good territory with a few forts is the only thing that'll slow the Allies down.


As I sometimes do, I leapt at incomplete information provided in the AAR. My assumption was that the 6th ID was dropped off by a sizeable, but not insurmountable enemy landing force. I did not know-because information was not provided until after I made my comment-that an Allied armada (and the 1.0x10^6) sat in the waters off of Puerto Princessa in defense.

So, yes, my calls for immediate counteroffensive are tempered with this expost de facto information provided.

However, my calls for counteroffensive against a high value enemy target are not. It's a question of either:or. Either John provides meaningful ground resistance in the central PI or he gets run out and has the southern DEI / PI entirely cut off. And the SE Asian coastline is also in jeapordy. Doubly so if CR manages to chisel out a 3 hex-wide system of bases running W-E through the mid Philippines.

Getting the Allies off of Palawan ensures that-for the time being-that route is NOT patent. It's also meaningful in that it provides relief for the regiment, engineers and base forces that John said he had there. What will their end be if he doesn't relieve them? They'll be destroyed and pushed out of the base hex to starve / disband in the jungles of Palawan.

On Palawan, exhortations to defend, fall back and delay don't hold water. This isn't the Burmese or Thai jungles we're talking about. With hex-centric / base-centric island battles, it's a win:lose proposition. If IJA forces are pushed out of Puerto Princessa, Dan will not be delayed a whit and will watch them degrade autonomously in the Palawan fen.

The Japanese get so few chances to take out high quality Allied divisions in toto. The astonishing 100% disruption stated by John was a shocking opportunity. It's an opportunity to:

1. Save existing Japanese forces on Palawan
2. Destroy a badly disrupted top-line Allied division
3. Reinforce a defensive bulwark and avoid a truncation of the southern DEI / PI LOS
4. Avoid a patent route for the Allies' reinforcement / resupply / invasion of SE Asia
5. (see number 4) Avoid potential disruption of the Japanese LOS for the Thai and Malaysian theatres by making Allied South China Sea landings less likely.
6. Give John "something to do" with a sizeable army group of reinforcements closer to home, rather than casting them towards the periphery of a collapsing defensive bubble.

obvert: I respectfully suggest that these ideas and contributions are not whimsical or heretical, but part of a sound defensive focus on maintaining a defensive shield in the PI. Your opinions may vary, and that's OK too.

I hope this provides further depth of commentary on my initial (presumptuous? premature?) post. So long as the entire Allied armada is crammed into the restricted shallows off of Palawan (), it's not tenable. But they're got to move-and soon. When they do, hopefully it's to leave a badly damaged / disrupted 6th Aus ID on the beach that can be poached for a song.



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Post #: 3336
RE: May 1944 - 2/26/2017 2:53:53 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		That was an excellent Post CB. Dan does not have any form of CAP flying over Puerto Princesa so I am busy flying in another unit and will try a shock attack against the Aussies. If nothing else it holds the base for a bit longer.

On the May 15th turn he landed at Sandakan and Beaufort. All he does is reach for the low-hanging fruit! I cannot defend everywhere so he--literally--wanders about reconning every base until he finds on that isn't defended or has just a few defenders. EACH of his landing (at Puerto, Sandakan, and Beaufort) has seen total disruption of the landing force. Cannot take advantage due to it being in a before mentioned empty or lightly held base. Damn. This is frustrating.

On the plus side, last turn I watched FOUR Allied Fighter Squadrons get absolutely mauled by Japanese Fighters. A Hellcat, Spitfire, and P-47 squadron were each crushed over Moulmein (6 Frank for 41 Planes) while a P-38 Squadron was destroyed (all 16 planes) over Manila. It doesn't really accomplish much but it is nice to see.


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(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3337
RE: May 1944 - 2/26/2017 3:48:12 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


On the plus side, last turn I watched FOUR Allied Fighter Squadrons get absolutely mauled by Japanese Fighters. A Hellcat, Spitfire, and P-47 squadron were each crushed over Moulmein (6 Frank for 41 Planes) while a P-38 Squadron was destroyed (all 16 planes) over Manila. It doesn't really accomplish much but it is nice to see.



It does accomplish plenty.
It's part the progressive attrite. Just keep it consistently (Edit: even with higher losses from your side)

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Post #: 3338
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 1:20:43 AM   
Alpha77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Build fighters both Japan and Germany learned to late to build fighters. Build them early and use massive sweeps to chew up allied fighters and burn through his pools. He will have to contest or save his air frames early, that will leave your vulnerable bombers a freer hand longer.


I really try to do not much sweeps with IJA....I tried some but the planes seem to be no good sweepers. Also you will lose pilots (if you fly CAP over own base not so many). I doubt the wiseness of sweeping for attrition as IJ. Yes, if you want a base and need to bomb it later anyway sweeps for sure make sense to get CAP down.
Will it matter much if Allies lose some P40, F4 or Hurricans to sweeps in 42 ? No, they get much more and better planes later anyway - pilot losses matter much more (imho)..also I do not like to send top pilots out in Oscar + Zero paper planes. I feel now a bit better with Tojo and M5 Zero (at least faster and better dur)

It does not seem so in this game that the Allies suffer plane problems (as John describes his opponent has massive CAPs and 100000s of fighter in the "deathstar") even if his sub tactics and crews seem to put a dent into them

I also am a bit dissapointed when I see the huge loss of Frank fighters in AAR as this one, seems to be not a game changer. Update I just saw the last post were they were succesful... so it seems to depends..can you post the combat reports of these good air battles, if these were sweeps the results seem to be incouraging. If these were escorts, then still good but escorts are more vulnerable anyway.

Btw, re. the sweep arrive question earlier, I think it is mostly a distance thing, means base fighters 4-5 hexes nearer than the bombers. It seems to work for my opponent at least quite ok / he has many-most fighters at Kira and bombers at Ndeni, sweeps Guadalcanal fields, fighters arrived before his bombers in severall occasions.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 2/27/2017 1:31:41 AM >

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 3339
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 12:27:12 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

As I sometimes do, I leapt at incomplete information provided in the AAR.



Your posts have been great...of course all our inputs are tempered by the amount of of information provided.

But for any JFB you are dropping golden nuggets to bedevil the Allies!

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3340
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 12:49:52 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Fort building - With the issue with full divisions NOT being able to build beyond size 2 in non-base hexes (whether this is a bug or WAD) for Japan, I would look to move brigades to some key x3 terrain to allow them to get to size 3 or 4 forts, if possible.

Formosa to Home Islands - How many ACMs do you have? I would mine some of these bases with less than 150 mines each and base an ACM there to maintain. This is more an annoyance move, but it will require Dan to have minesweepers everywhere he plans to go and maybe keep his subs out of those hexes.

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Post #: 3341
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 12:54:49 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Fort building - With the issue with full divisions NOT being able to build beyond size 2 in non-base hexes (whether this is a bug or WAD) for Japan, I would look to move brigades to some key x3 terrain to allow them to get to size 3 or 4 forts, if possible.

Formosa to Home Islands - How many ACMs do you have? I would mine some of these bases with less than 150 mines each and base an ACM there to maintain. This is more an annoyance move, but it will require Dan to have minesweepers everywhere he plans to go and maybe keep his subs out of those hexes.


Simply break the division down into thirds...it will build forts past 2 just fine. Recombine when the Allies are in the hex.

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 3342
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 12:59:41 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		What is y'alls experience with the relationship between Kamikazes and MSW craft? I know there may be an inherent predilection for CVE and LST types of ships, but MSWs? It is unlikely that there will be LRCAP over these TFs at first also.

Might be a nasty surprise to have some falling cherry blossoms blot out these TFs if they are operating on their own.

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Post #: 3343
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 1:14:36 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I have a horrible track record with kamikaze...I would be better off strafing them with Nicks etc.


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Post #: 3344
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 5:38:01 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Build fighters both Japan and Germany learned to late to build fighters. Build them early and use massive sweeps to chew up allied fighters and burn through his pools. He will have to contest or save his air frames early, that will leave your vulnerable bombers a freer hand longer.


Adding to the list. Keep in mind that I had Dan's stockpiles at ZERO just a year ago in summer 1943.

I will edit the starting list with each useful suggestion, observation, and/or experience.



Not a startling fact. I am rounding 1/44 in my Allied campaign and have virtually nothing in my stockpiles. Perhaps a dozen American medium bombers, another dozen heavies. Army fighters have not more than 25 aircraft in a pool for any type of fighter. Got 100 hellcats but that is not much considering that they need to support 16 carriers and a good dozen CVEs. No corsairs, very few dive bombers and critically short of TBFs. Point is here that empty pools are par for the course for most Allied players until mid 44 at the least. I do have a ****load of whiraways and boomerangs...

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Post #: 3345
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 8:23:47 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		That's the point for the Japanese player if he runs the Allied player out of planes in 42 he doesn't make inroads to building pools back up until much later. One of the few areas where the Japans can win the war of attrition with any hope of success.

< Message edited by Bif1961 -- 2/27/2017 8:26:04 PM >

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 3346
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:00:42 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

One of the few areas where the Japans can win the war of attrition with any hope of success.

What are the others ? Searchlights ?

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Post #: 3347
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:05:20 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

One of the few areas where the Japans can win the war of attrition with any hope of success.

What are the others ? Searchlights ?

Nein nein! Those 'air search' audio directional finders that are big tin horns.

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Post #: 3348
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:06:10 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		There is much merrit in listening to Chickenboy tho.

If it works you get all the glory.
If it fails you can blame him forever.

I can already see
"Chickenboy give me my divisions back"
or
"Remember Puerto Princesa"
becoming new memes.

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Post #: 3349
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:07:18 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

One of the few areas where the Japans can win the war of attrition with any hope of success.

What are the others ? Searchlights ?

Nein nein! Those 'air search' audio directional finders that are big tin horns.

Whatever the Allies throw at us, WE WILL HEAR IT !!!!

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Post #: 3350
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:14:48 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

There is much merrit in listening to Chickenboy tho.

If it works you get all the glory.
If it fails you can blame him forever.

I can already see
"Chickenboy give me my divisions back"
or
"Remember Puerto Princesa"
becoming new memes.


My general purpose meme for these sorts of occasions....






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3351
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:16:47 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		And one for my Trekkie friends...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3352
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:24:24 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		As for Puerto Princessa...




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3353
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:25:35 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
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From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

One of the few areas where the Japans can win the war of attrition with any hope of success.

What are the others ? Searchlights ?

+ 1

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 3354
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:26:24 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		The other area is allied supplies in China. I am speaking what the Japanese can do early in the war that will have mid and long term affects. If he runs China out of supply, by his CBI moves he can take China and when PPs allow he can move well trained veteran formations to impact other theaters.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3355
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 9:29:39 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
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From: Germany
Status: offline

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Post #: 3356
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 10:09:12 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

One of the few areas where the Japans can win the war of attrition with any hope of success.

What are the others ? Searchlights ?

+ 1


Searchlights are a hidden gem in the TOE of Japan!

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 3357
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 10:51:13 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

And one for my Trekkie friends...





Nice and I am...


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(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 3358
RE: May 1944 - 2/27/2017 10:53:37 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

One of the few areas where the Japans can win the war of attrition with any hope of success.

What are the others ? Searchlights ?

+ 1


Searchlights are a hidden gem in the TOE of Japan!



All my gems are actually painted over lumps of coal currently...


Once again, I leave for work from 10am-5pm and come back to this mass of emails fulfilling the job of making Dan NERVOUS about all the activity on the AAR. He has said as much and is 'concerned' about how many Posts a day (as well as views) are taking place.

THERE is a hidden gem! PSYCHE WARFARE!! Let us all wage an unrelenting war against Dan by boosting Posts counts, hits, and comments.

This is how we win. Simple Allied demoralization...



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/27/2017 10:55:29 PM >

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3359
RE: May 1944 - 2/28/2017 12:47:31 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

One of the few areas where the Japans can win the war of attrition with any hope of success.

What are the others ? Searchlights ?

+ 1


Searchlights are a hidden gem in the TOE of Japan!



All my gems are actually painted over lumps of coal currently...


Once again, I leave for work from 10am-5pm and come back to this mass of emails fulfilling the job of making Dan NERVOUS about all the activity on the AAR. He has said as much and is 'concerned' about how many Posts a day (as well as views) are taking place.

THERE is a hidden gem! PSYCHE WARFARE!! Let us all wage an unrelenting war against Dan by boosting Posts counts, hits, and comments.

This is how we win. Simple Allied demoralization...



I'll do you one better. I've recognized an inadvertent OPSEC slip about a concern of Dan's in a totally unrelated thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4058341&mpage=83�

Post #2465

Apparently, Dan has some concerns about inability to rearm. Probably rearming ships at small bases in the absence of sufficient port facilities or AEs. Something to think about.

So my next message to Dan would be to ask him about his rearmament issues. Frame the 'concern' in the form of questions about your particular scenario / mod. Get under his skin about OPSEC being blown and the Allied jig being up.

I've done that in a follow-up on the above thread, but I suspect that Dan won't respond to my query.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 2/28/2017 12:48:37 AM >

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