Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

June 10, 1944
Legaspi

Did a mouse over and got this. I have to believe it is pretty accurate since the base is getting observed every turn.

Need thoughts. Is this appropriate? Should I say something? Am at a loss...

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

AF9:
Unlimited number of planes allowed...checked!
Doubles Aviation Support values...checked!
Ability to repair planes with over 1000 engines present...highly doubtful!

As your screenshot shows, he probably has an increasing number of damaged planes there in various states of repairs. By this time in the war both sides need a few AF9 to allow excessive planes to be based there. Both sides are short Aviation Support.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think John is pointing out that there isn't really that much there...which is worrisome.

That is a pretty normal day for plane losses....you bleed and bleed and bleed in mid 44. Which is why I still think your fighter production is low but might barely suffice once the Frank B comes along.

Nothing to be done but be creative in how you use your fighters selling them dearly.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I did the screenshot simply to demonstrate the massiveness of what is present. When I first saw the numbers I had the 'what the HE**??!!' reaction then immediately shifted gears reminding myself what time the game has moved to. I keep having to remind myself how deep we are into the game. The scale and scope of what the Allies can do continues to simply amaze me. One can read about it and understand from books but to actually SEE it is staggering.

Does that make sense?

He bombed Batangas with everything he had last turn. There were TWENTY-FOUR separate strikes that hit the troops. Let me provide details on the first 10 Raids:

57 DB 110 Cas
31 DB 84 Cas
111 Liberators/36 B-29/28 2EB 440 Cas
25 DB 53 Cas
15 DB 29 cas
60 Liberators 334 Cas
30 Lib/9 B-29/9 2EB 169 Cas
12 B-29 35 Cas
11 Lib/3 B-29/3 A-20 38 Cas
6 Lib/12 2EB 59 Cas
...fourteen more strikes followed.

When I sent the turn to Dan my simple note was "OK. B-29s on close air ground support??!! Makes sense."

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think John is pointing out that there isn't really that much there...which is worrisome.

That is a pretty normal day for plane losses....you bleed and bleed and bleed in mid 44. Which is why I still think your fighter production is low but might barely suffice once the Frank B comes along.

Nothing to be done but be creative in how you use your fighters selling them dearly.

I truly understand your comments on Fighter production. I THOUGHT the numbers were pretty good. Not now. Have to change that and these convoys of TKs getting thru will help some.

As mentioned in the above Post I just made adjusting my head to the reality of scale and scope is difficult. Getting game thru 1942 is easy. Then 1943 becomes pretty interesting. From 1944 forward is just...wow...

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Need thoughts. Is this appropriate? Should I say something? Am at a loss...

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I hear you.

Just had a funny moment. TRIED loading the game and it froze. The fact that it froze and I have to re-start it is worrisome but look at WHERE it froze (considering what we've been talking about):

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Be careful, I don't think that you have the supply to increase your fighter production in any meaningful way and almost certainly in no way that will be safe in three months game time and if memory serves your engine pools are pitiful meaning you would have to increase both.

What are you making at Harbin? I think that might be the safest factory you have but I suspect might be vulnerable from China and is of course worthless without engines.

The Allies can hit a lot of the HI from Luzon. Even worse if they sweep from Okinawa or any of those Japanese Islands.

Find a built up base in the HI, something spoilage proof and with little or no reason to be bombed. Send General HQ there and set it to stockpile your supplies. Keep minimal supplies at bases likely to be bombed. Otherwise your supplies will burn.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Need thoughts. Is this appropriate? Should I say something? Am at a loss...

Expect the Allies to make a bunch of these AF9 bases on Luzon and points closer to the home islands. That's 'what they do'. The fact that he's exploited his foothold on Luzon to produce one of these is no surprise at all. It's expected really.

I'm disappointed in the lack of imagination that many Allied players adopt in the late war. They 'brute force' the game engine and game in general because they can. Rather than create a series of interlocking bases that make sense, they put all their marbles in one basket because it's easier and-oh by the way-exploits the game engine somewhat.

As mentioned previously anything >250 AV support = 1.0x10^6 AV support. So the ground crew can support operations on 1000 mixed engine airframes, including 4EBs with impunity. As NYGiants pointed out, the game allows for an unlimited number of planes and doubled aviation support values with AF9 size expansion.

You'll get apologists saying in "X square miles you can have Y number of airplanes" with no problem, but I think that's a non-sequitor. The Allies did not/could not build hyperfunctional bases for thousands of airplanes on recently captured ground in the war. How long did that take them in the game? 30 days? 45 days?

How long did it take-with truly Herculean engineering effort-to transform Tinian into a "size 7" airfield? Marines invaded 24 July 1944. 15,000 engineers took until February-March 1945 to build the airfield. So that's 7 months. The transformation was remarkable, but it wasn't on a shoestring. And it wasn't overnight.

And it wasn't a singular punctate focus-the Allied war planners were smart enough to similarly transform Saipan and Guam into comparable-sized supporting redundant clusters of airfields. Has there been any effort to so enlarge any of the other myriad bases he's taken throughout the central PI? I doubt it.

I also think it's kind of lazy thinking, but the 'brute force' mechanics of so many Allied players in the mid-late war seems to be the way to go I guess. Why bother maneuvering or making things realistic when the game lets you troll the shallow narrow seas of the Philippines with an Allied carrier death star, hundreds of surface combatants, hundreds of supply ships and thousands of airplanes? All in the same hex. At the same time.

So, to summarize, I think it's unrealistic in engineer ability, game mechanics and geographic focus. It's also unrealistic in terms of air support. It's lazy thinking and lazy gameplay too.

All of this is permissible within the code. Just like it's OK to use B-29s wantonly in a close air support role, all of this is 'OK' by the game engine. But it's not part of the game that's interesting to me. It rubs up against the 'gamey' side of things too much for my taste.

But you got your fun and games in your OOB, John. Now Dan gets to have his fun and games too for the next several months. Suck it up, big guy. Improvise, adapt and overcome. Or at least soldier on and try to counterpunch when you can.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

For those of you who have gone this deep into the game, I am truly thankful for the advice, aid, and comfort (holding me as I want to retreat into the corner of the basement and suck my thumb while in a little fetal ball trying to sing Clementine) during these trying times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I hear you.

Just had a funny moment. TRIED loading the game and it froze. The fact that it froze and I have to re-start it is worrisome but look at WHERE it froze (considering what we've been talking about):

This happens more and more in late game ... right in that spot during replay!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

John,

I know this part of the game kind of sucks as the Japanese player. But all JFBs out there can learn from your experiences. If you help us, you can probably learn quite a bit as well. But it will be humiliating.

There's a natural response to *not* post about those things that are going poorly for you in the war. I get that. In the few limited AARs I've done, it actually hurts to talk about that stuff. I've felt physically nauseous before after a particularly bad set of turns. Getting whupped sucks. I think you probably know of which I speak.

But by not updating your readers on the current state of affairs throughout the Empire, by instead focusing on meaningless moral victory pinpricks, it makes it difficult for your readers. It's difficult for us to know what's going on where and why. It's difficult for us to learn from your late war experiences. It's difficult for us to see what we would do or would have done differently. It's difficult for us to help you too.

As a fellow dyed-in-the-wool JFB, I want to know some of the important aspects of your war too. The moral victories are a great accent, but I will feel much more engaged and informed if you help focus on the big picture more.

I know you're getting hammered in the central and northern PI and Southern DEI. Now Borneo is soon to be enveloped. But other than a rare post about your strategic position, it's difficult to see where you have sufficient reserves versus insufficient strength versus too many troops languishing in a cut-off zone.

My specific questions:

1. Is Puerto Princessa / Palawan still yours? I can't tell.

2. What do you think the significance of Panay's fall will be?

3. Are there other central PI bases that have recently fallen?

4. With the fall of Miri and N. Borneo, what do you think he will do as a follow-up? How are you positioning your forces to support your defensive response? Where will your defensive troops be coming from?

5. What are your defensive capabilities on Hainan, Formosa, CRB, Haiphong and Hong Kong? Where will reinforcement to these places (if needed) come from?

6. Do you have an actionable plan to extricate troops from theaters that are now-by process of events in the game-meaningless? I think (but don't know because of lack of information) that includes the Solomons, Rabaul, Truk, Southern DEI, Java, the Andaman islands, and Southern Borneo.

As always, thank you for your AAR. I really enjoy reading it and contributing.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I did the screenshot simply to demonstrate the massiveness of what is present. When I first saw the numbers I had the 'what the HE**??!!' reaction then immediately shifted gears reminding myself what time the game has moved to. I keep having to remind myself how deep we are into the game. The scale and scope of what the Allies can do continues to simply amaze me. One can read about it and understand from books but to actually SEE it is staggering.

Does that make sense?

He bombed Batangas with everything he had last turn. There were TWENTY-FOUR separate strikes that hit the troops. Let me provide details on the first 10 Raids:

57 DB 110 Cas
31 DB 84 Cas
111 Liberators/36 B-29/28 2EB 440 Cas
25 DB 53 Cas
15 DB 29 cas
60 Liberators 334 Cas
30 Lib/9 B-29/9 2EB 169 Cas
12 B-29 35 Cas
11 Lib/3 B-29/3 A-20 38 Cas
6 Lib/12 2EB 59 Cas
...fourteen more strikes followed.

When I sent the turn to Dan my simple note was "OK. B-29s on close air ground support??!! Makes sense."

I get what you're trying to say, its just that the game is not reality. Just as the Japanese are flying planes in game that never flew this effectively of in these numbers in the war, the Allies can do things the Allies did not do. It all balances out.

Try playing PDU-OFF Scen 1 stock and then check out what the Allies can do!!

The one limitation that leads to 4Es being used so much to support ground troops is the inability of the game to show the effectiveness of F/FB in strafing and close support rocket and bomb strikes. This part of the game just isn't viable on a large scale, as it was in the war, so the 4Es take that role.