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RE: June 1944 - 4/14/2017 1:47:29 PM

John 3rd

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A part of the Kaigun? That is classified...

Could be a group of elite Japanese Boy Scouts!

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 4/14/2017 1:50:41 PM >

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Post #: 3841

RE: June 1944 - 4/14/2017 4:28:24 PM

John 3rd

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June 28, 1944

After feeling pretty good about the 27th, the 28th arrives and the Allies pulverize San Fernando taking it out as an operational base. The Fighters put up decent battle for the air but are overwhelmed and then comes the B-29 and B-24s. Oh, well...good fight there while it lasted. Pull units back to Formosa to refit and rest a little bit.

Dan surprises me and moves the 1.0^6x10 north to a position two hexes NE of Mauban on the east coast of Luzon. His CVs brush aside the small LRCAP protecting the convoy carrying an Air Force HQ and two Eng Reg. All ships are destroyed and lose the three units. Immediately buy them back and we'll use them once they return and rebuild. At least we made three trips before this occurred.

I taunt the enemy come further north and waste the Divine Wind! It is a bluff...

The BBs make it back nearly all the way to Singapore so that is good. No SS!

Kido Butai returns to Saipan without incident.

Off to work.

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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 4/14/2017 4:29:58 PM >

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RE: June 1944 - 4/14/2017 6:21:34 PM

Lowpe

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Once again it seems the Sam did really well for the day.

Not much you can do when the Allies throw the kitchen sink at you. But it does sometimes provide opportunities elsewhere and does of course provide a delay.

Now figure out how to sting him -- cap trap; subs; night attack, etc.

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Post #: 3843

RE: June 1944 - 4/14/2017 8:20:35 PM

BillBrown

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Just so you know, 1.0^6x10 = 10 correction

1.0x10^6 = 1,000,000

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 4/14/2017 9:18:45 PM >

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Post #: 3844

RE: June 1944 - 4/14/2017 8:31:55 PM

Lowpe

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Take away the plane losses on the ground, and it wasn't a horrible day as Japan managed to down 20+ Jugs and some Lightnings. The day of the Lightning is truly over, but Japan really needs to bleed the fighters and anytime you lose 3-1 or less is ok.

I am assuming the Sam was up in the air fighting those Jugs, and truly, if there were 3 Sentai there as before, then they are incredibly good. Is it because they have superior pilots to the George?

At this stage ship losses never bothered me, especially if I had some fighters getting kills over them. I did get bothered when the Allies got free kills.

I am curious about the Nick D NF lost, are the Allies bombing at night?

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RE: June 1944 - 4/14/2017 8:47:36 PM

AcePylut

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1.0^6x10 = 60

Isn't that 1.0 to the 60th power, which is still 1?

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RE: June 1944 - 4/14/2017 9:41:46 PM

BillBrown

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Actually I was not thinking right either. Proper grouping is

(1.0^6)*10 = 10

Order is ^ then * or / and then + or - unless modified by parens.

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Post #: 3847

RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 2:37:39 AM

AcePylut

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Yup, math. LOL.

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Post #: 3848

RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 3:14:12 AM

John 3rd

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Math is evil.

HOWEVER we detail it---1.0x10^6 = Toro PooPoo = A crap ton of shipping in one hex that defies all imagination or conventional wisdom...

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 4/15/2017 3:15:00 AM >

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Post #: 3849

RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 3:16:47 AM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Once again it seems the Sam did really well for the day.

Not much you can do when the Allies throw the kitchen sink at you. But it does sometimes provide opportunities elsewhere and does of course provide a delay.

Now figure out how to sting him -- cap trap; subs; night attack, etc.

Thought I did pretty well with old Musashi taking down five Fletchers. A pinprick--YES, but still something.

A day or two prior to that we had the nice victory at Luganville.

We're working on it. Truly.

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RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 10:54:38 AM

pws1225

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The new math: 1.0x10^6 = a crap ton! Now that's how you do math!

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Post #: 3851

RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 1:34:04 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Once again it seems the Sam did really well for the day.

Not much you can do when the Allies throw the kitchen sink at you. But it does sometimes provide opportunities elsewhere and does of course provide a delay.

Now figure out how to sting him -- cap trap; subs; night attack, etc.

Thought I did pretty well with old Musashi taking down five Fletchers. A pinprick--YES, but still something.

A day or two prior to that we had the nice victory at Luganville.

We're working on it. Truly.

You misunderstood me. I meant figure out how to sting the Deathstar. This is the ultimate problem every Japanese player must face, and boy it is a tough one...but you do have some tools. In fact, one could argue you are in better shape than almost every other Japanese player that gets to this point.

I have come to the conclusion attacking the deathstar head on results in one sunk KB and a thousand planes lost. However, if you can bleed the planes on it...well then that is pretty darn good.

One tactic which has been mentioned is stuffing the KB with 100 percent fighters. Bad news is that there are so many planes in the Deathstar if they coordinate their attack (likely given the target is CV) the bombers will get thru and you will lose carriers.

But if you can predict the DS general movement, you could flood it with destroyer and cruiser squadrons at night looking to engage it in a night fight. You need lots of surface ships to do this...and you use land based fighters to provide LRCAP over the small fleets while the KB would draw any major strike...but why use the KB this way when you risk it. Instead park a battleship with some good AA ships at a base under a very healthy CAP.

You need to destroy 300 planes to make the loss of the battleship worthwhile...but given a lot of targets the DS usually won't coordinate their raids (much greater chance of coordination against CVs).

Another tactic is to use 1 sentai of torpedo bombers, or one squadron of a high flying kamikaze, and escort it with 4 or more of your best fighter squadrons all set to say 30,000 feet. It is the closest you can come to sweeping carriers. When I did this I used a 1/3rd of a Sentai of bombers (helens) with Georges as escorts. You are in a much better position than I ever was.

The above tactic can be tried with say Franks as kamikaze although I am hesitant to recommend moving precious fighter squadrons to kamikaze status.

You are a very creative at attack, perhaps you can come up with some better ideas!

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Post #: 3852

RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 1:50:57 PM

John 3rd

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That does provide some good fodder for ideas. Thanks.

The biggest problem I have with the Fleet is the absolute LACK of surface ships left within the Kaigun. My 2nd Class DDs are now coming in a couple a month but I am soooooooooo short on CAs, CLs, and DDs that it isn't even funny.

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RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 9:05:21 PM

John 3rd

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Running turn and am highly nervous to see what happens...

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Post #: 3854

RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 10:44:25 PM

John 3rd

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Nothing big happened for 6-29 except I landed two Brigades and an ID on Miyako-Jima and Ishigaki. No Allied interference thank goodness.

Changed Miyako-Jima, Ishigaki, and Kume-Jima to General Defense Army. Naha will be next then Nago.

Tony 100 and Frank-B both come in on August 1st so we'll be able to watch how quickly they deployed in July. LOVE the featured that does the percetnage count as the production month approaches.

Judy (D4Y4) moved up to September 1944. Looks like we'll have that plane in August.

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RE: June 1944 - 4/15/2017 10:46:33 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

The biggest problem I have with the Fleet is the absolute LACK of surface ships left within the Kaigun. My 2nd Class DDs are now coming in a couple a month but I am soooooooooo short on CAs, CLs, and DDs that it isn't even funny.

Funny how at the end of the day how important the lowly DD is. What would you give for 2 dozen 1st class Destroyers right now? Allies are spitting out a couple a week right now. Most under rated ship in the war. Love those things

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RE: June 1944 - 4/16/2017 12:58:06 AM

John 3rd

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Damn straight on that Sir! My kingdom for about 12 Fubuki/Kagero-Class...

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RE: June 1944 - 4/16/2017 8:42:54 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Damn straight on that Sir! My kingdom for about 12 Fubuki/Kagero-Class...

As the Allies I would willingly trade an old BB for some Japanese DDs on the bottom. It really is the key to getting the upper hand and my objective is to kill DDs from day one. Once you get them suppressed, you can flood a hex with multiple DD TFs and win just about any surface fight.

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July 1944 - 4/17/2017 4:28:22 PM

John 3rd

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July 1, 1944

New month. Praise be! Take a look at the delightful news shown in my research page:

Attachment (1)

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RE: July 1944 - 4/17/2017 4:38:01 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
July 1, 1944
New month. Praise be! Take a look at the delightful news shown in my research page:

Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Let me beat Lowpe to be the 'daily downer' for you!

When do the Allies get P-51s in number in the game? Is it July 1944?

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RE: July 1944 - 4/17/2017 4:51:37 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
July 1, 1944
New month. Praise be! Take a look at the delightful news shown in my research page:

Ooh! Ooh! Ooh! Let me beat Lowpe to be the 'daily downer' for you!

When do the Allies get P-51s in number in the game? Is it July 1944?

I thought it was October or November for decent Mustangs in qty!

I thought now thru then is the time to really bleed Allied fighters and bombers.

I have no experience with the Frank B, but lots with the Tony.

Both are bomber killer extraordinaire!

If you setup a layered low CAP with Sams, Frank A, Frank B and Tony you will really be able to whittle down the Allies ability maintain offensive aerial operations. The trick is to avoid the inevitable shore bombardments.

I hesitate to think how that kind of CAP would do to a death star strike!

Time to sweep with some Georges...you need to bleed him as much as you possibly can.

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Post #: 3861

RE: July 1944 - 4/17/2017 11:17:36 PM

John 3rd

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Lowpe and Chickenboy:

How would you set the Altitudes of the aircraft? Right now I run the Franks as high as possible. Are you saying that MISTER TONY should be set highest? Dan flies nearly everything at 32K or higher and it SEEMS only fightable if I have some of mine at the same or higher...

Notes:
1. After scaring the BEJESUS out of the Japanese by bringing the 1.0x10^6 to a point of the NE Corner of Luzon, Dan pulls them back on the 30th. Hope my bluster/bluff worked. This pull back allows for troops to continue unloading all along the island chain leading back towards Okinawa. Need about 7-10 days for the last of the troops to get unloaded and continue with Fort digging.

2. Tanker TF #5 departs Singapore. This is the big one that HAS to get thru. It is carrying 154,000+ Fuel and 60,000+ Oil. WE get this one home to Japan and things should be good to 1945.

3. Tanker TF #6 will begin to load in a few days. It will have the ability to carry just about as much as TF #5. Five MUST get there but six would be pure gravy...

4. In a development that just leaves me befuddled, BB Nagato, a CL, and 2 DD decide to upgrade while in Singers. I had turned thing on at Singers PRIOR to the TFs arrival but guess I screwed it up. Need at least 20 days before I can move these wessels. Think GOOD thoughts!

5. He has landed at Ternate. Doesn't look like enough but we'll see...

6. Am now pulling troops out of Bangkok as the Allies take Pisanuloke.

7. Lift the 5th ID (replace with a Brigade) from Guam. It is headed for Nago, OKINAWA.

8. Though watching there has been no action around Luganville. We'll try to provoke a reaction by bringing in a FTF of 3 PG carrying 3,000 supplies for the troops there.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 4/17/2017 11:18:09 PM >

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RE: July 1944 - 4/18/2017 2:19:03 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Lowpe and Chickenboy:

How would you set the Altitudes of the aircraft?

Beats the **** outta me, dude.

Seriously, there are a multitude of opinions on the matter of stacked / layered / high-altitude / low-altitude CAPs. Obvert has done some intriguing testing showing the benefits of low stacked CAP (3,000, 6,000 and 9,000 alt. IIRC) with Franks vs. P-47D2s. It was uniquely effective. He could regularly replicate such success as well, even with a much higher altitude P-47 sweep.

But, like I've said before, I have limited late war experience so I am not a font of first hand knowledge on the matter.

How would *I* proceed? I'd mix it up and experiment to see what worked best for me. I'd try Obvert's low CAP stacked and then I'd try some traditional altitude CAP and high CAP (+/- stacking) to see what worked best for me.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 4/18/2017 2:21:02 AM >

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RE: July 1944 - 4/18/2017 4:03:07 AM

John 3rd

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OK. We'll begin an experiment over the next few turns and I will document the settings. Ain't gonna be any secrecy here gang. Let all know how things do/do not work.

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RE: July 1944 - 4/18/2017 6:00:07 AM

CaptBeefheart

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I mentioned this in the other AAR. A game hex is 1386 square nautical miles. That's a lot of space in which to put the Allied fleet.

Other people are going to have to help with your CAP strategy. The one time I faced sweeps Lowpe cleared the skies (the AI doesn't sweep).

Cheers,
CC

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RE: July 1944 - 4/18/2017 11:17:16 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Lowpe and Chickenboy:

How would you set the Altitudes of the aircraft?

Beats the **** outta me, dude.

Seriously, there are a multitude of opinions on the matter of stacked / layered / high-altitude / low-altitude CAPs. Obvert has done some intriguing testing showing the benefits of low stacked CAP (3,000, 6,000 and 9,000 alt. IIRC) with Franks vs. P-47D2s. It was uniquely effective. He could regularly replicate such success as well, even with a much higher altitude P-47 sweep.

But, like I've said before, I have limited late war experience so I am not a font of first hand knowledge on the matter.

How would *I* proceed? I'd mix it up and experiment to see what worked best for me. I'd try Obvert's low CAP stacked and then I'd try some traditional altitude CAP and high CAP (+/- stacking) to see what worked best for me.

John just sent me a PM and I saw this here.

I tested the higher CAP layers as well. Results are in the low CAP thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4047529

Low CAP still beats higher layered CAP by a good amount. This is the basic info. More detailed results are in the thread. I've also gone to 20+ runs in several tests to see how things stack up and began to post those before my recent game started. They still support the benefit of using low CAP at 9k, 7k, 5k at 0 range.

I've been using this in game, and it does have wrinkles, but certainly works better than anything else I've tried either in tests or game situations.

Numbers are losses below:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/18/2017 11:18:26 AM >

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RE: July 1944 - 4/18/2017 1:03:29 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Notes:
1. After scaring the BEJESUS out of the Japanese by bringing the 1.0x10^6 to a point of the NE Corner of Luzon, Dan pulls them back on the 30th. Hope my bluster/bluff worked. This pull back allows for troops to continue unloading all along the island chain leading back towards Okinawa. Need about 7-10 days for the last of the troops to get unloaded and continue with Fort digging.

Don't be scared of the DS. If it comes out, set up cap traps. In fact, you probably should always have a cap trap up and running every day somewhere...especially where the DS might show up. This is a perfect job for your second tier fighters. 2nd tier fighters against the DS and deep strikes. 1st tier fighters against land based air attacks.

When the DS disappears, that is the time to worry as that means a major invasion might be coming.

Check sigint often as that will give you warning of major ship concentrations...like 1000 ship concentrations.

Credit for low CAP layered defense really goes to Lobarron, Alfred, theElf and others. Don't forget you need radar too!

The accidental upgrade hits every Japanese player at least once. Just make sure you have some planes flying low CAP every day there and hopefully you will be ok.

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Post #: 3867

RE: July 1944 - 4/18/2017 1:53:09 PM

crsutton

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P51D comes in 10/44.

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RE: July 1944 - 4/18/2017 3:03:41 PM

John 3rd

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July 1, 1944

OK. We have the beginnings of a plan.

I just shifted the CAP as detailed above. It will probably be tested immediately at Formosa. I have bunches of Fighters resting, drawing airframes, and preparing for the upcoming fight. There were a pair of P-47 sweeps over the SW corner of Formosa today. The P-47s and Japan had a even exchange. This occurred before changes.

Set a CAP Trap for tomorrow over Clark. That base is about to fall and you can bet your bottom dollar he'll throw everything (DB, TB, 2EB, and 4EB) there tomorrow. It isn't a lot (36 Sams and 49 Frank) but it might provide a rude surprise.

In a stunning development, Dan uses his B-29s as STRATEGIC bombers and they strike at Kochi on Shikoku. I didn't know that Strategic bombers could be used strategically!

There are only 22 of them and destroy just one resource. Strange choice for a first try. Next time he will face opposition as I set all fighters from Osaka down to CAP/LRCAP. Am going with a standard setting of 30/30 for CAP and LRCAP. Should provide movement within the Fighter units if he throws multiple strikes against the same hex.If anyone has a better idea on this, I am all ears.

HI is stockpiling at a FAST rate presently. We're banking 5,000/day.

Here are the B-29s:

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 4/18/2017 3:13:19 PM >

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Post #: 3869

RE: July 1944 - 4/18/2017 3:05:21 PM

John 3rd

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QUERY: That Low CAP Level Setting shouldn't be applied to fighting just his bombers right? I assume a higher altitude setting would work here since there are, as of yet, no Fighters that can escort the B-29s.

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Post #: 3870

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RE: June 1944