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RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 10:47:17 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
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Status: offline 		One of the reasons you are a highly regarded player, there are more, of course.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 4981
RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 1:21:47 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I don't believe in auto-victory. I'll surrender when it is clear that the EMPIRE is done.


I guess I do believe in auto victory for the Allies; and whenever the Allies get it then the game is over.

However, I don't think I like auto victory for Japan. Well, at least not in 1943.

Crsutton makes great points, as always, but I can rationalize the idea behind victory points to feel comfortable with it. It is a game, and the VP situation allows for wild strategies.

That some Japanese players quit early and deny playing the end game is their absolute loss at the most fascinating and fun time period in the game.

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Post #: 4982
RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 2:49:34 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I don't believe in auto-victory. I'll surrender when it is clear that the EMPIRE is done.


I guess I do believe in auto victory for the Allies; and whenever the Allies get it then the game is over.

However, I don't think I like auto victory for Japan. Well, at least not in 1943.

Crsutton makes great points, as always, but I can rationalize the idea behind victory points to feel comfortable with it. It is a game, and the VP situation allows for wild strategies.

That some Japanese players quit early and deny playing the end game is their absolute loss at the most fascinating and fun time period in the game.



Well that is a good point as far as the Allies go. If I am doing that well as the Allies I would not object to my opponent surrendering either. Good Japanese opponents are worth keeping happy.

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Post #: 4983
RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 3:30:54 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I don't believe in auto-victory. I'll surrender when it is clear that the EMPIRE is done.


I guess I do believe in auto victory for the Allies; and whenever the Allies get it then the game is over.

However, I don't think I like auto victory for Japan. Well, at least not in 1943.

Crsutton makes great points, as always, but I can rationalize the idea behind victory points to feel comfortable with it. It is a game, and the VP situation allows for wild strategies.

That some Japanese players quit early and deny playing the end game is their absolute loss at the most fascinating and fun time period in the game.



You are correct here. This period is pretty crazy with totally different challenges then any other phase of the game.


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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4984
RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 3:34:59 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		October 25, 1944

I've got my Night-Fighters well set-up at this point. Any strike on an important base is encountering anywhere from 35-60 Fighters. They don't do a lot of damage but do serve to distract those bombardiers!

Have a lot of Army Fighter coming in right now. Seem to be getting a 49 Plane Sentai of Franks about every 3-4 days. NICE! We even got a monster 81 plane Sentai of them about 10 days ago. VERY NICE!


Am facing the same decision the Brits faced when France was falling. Do I commit MOST of my Fighters to fighting over Southern China OR save them for the inevitable attack upon Kyushu and/or Honshu? Tough decision here...





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Post #: 4985
RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 7:05:13 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I usually watch the replay and then take a break before doing the turn...will look at a few things and place a few critical orders so I don't forget, but then I try not to work on the turn for a while and let things percolate.

There is a method for disabling combat reports at the end of the combat animations...but the Allies usually complain when you turn it off...even though AFBs don't have to watch the replay. But of course you lose a lot of intel that way...

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Post #: 4986
RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 7:43:54 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Far better to watch it and see things happen. Sometimes answers some questions not otherwise provided in the Summary.


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Post #: 4987
RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 10:58:07 PM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I don't believe in auto-victory. I'll surrender when it is clear that the EMPIRE is done.


I guess I do believe in auto victory for the Allies; and whenever the Allies get it then the game is over.

However, I don't think I like auto victory for Japan. Well, at least not in 1943.

Crsutton makes great points, as always, but I can rationalize the idea behind victory points to feel comfortable with it. It is a game, and the VP situation allows for wild strategies.

That some Japanese players quit early and deny playing the end game is their absolute loss at the most fascinating and fun time period in the game.




Surrendering is your prerogative. No one cries foul when a chess player tips over his king to end a match before mate. In chess, however, there is a "check-mate." One can claim that this is a poor rule, because a chess player can still have an asset advantage over his opponent when mate occurs and if the game were to continue without his king, that player would certainly win by destroying all of his opponents pieces. But without the ability to win via "mate," the game of chess would be completely different, especially if the black player could win via mate, but the white player could not.

The point therefore is that there cannot be "check-mate" for the allied player and not "check-mate" for the Japanese player if we are playing the same game. One would not sit down to a chessgame in which his opponent can win via checkmate, but he cannot because that would be "no fun" for his opponent.

I have no idea what "wild or unorthodox" strategy Japan would pursue to achieve auto-victory. The DEI must still be taken. The Phillipines and Malaysia must be taken at some point. Units must still be purchased from Manchuria. Factories must still be upgraded and brought online. There is no magic formula for Japanese auto-victory. A Japanese player going for auto-victory is simply more aggressive in the early going. And a Japanese strategy for auto-victory need not focus in 1 January 1943. In fact, it is not likely that Japan will achieve a 4x VP ratio by 1 January 1943. Why not 1 January 1944 or at any point in 1943?

I have seen many games end when the allied player simply gives up during the Japanese expansion period. Because most of my allied opponents have given up during the first 6 months of the war, I have not decided to change my tactics so as to ensure that my opponent does not give up. I guess that makes me a bad player then, since I am not "committed to the seeing the whole war through," even if that means that I ignore 1942 and 1943 while focusing every effort on trying to trying to accelerate end-war "wonder weapons" and hoarding every ounce of supply until May 1944.

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Post #: 4988
RE: October 1944 - 8/7/2017 11:39:16 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		That would fall under the already providing lend-leash agreements with the Dutch, who were already receiving B-10s, Buffaloes, CW22 Demons and PBYs. Those European buying commissions were busy in 1939-1940. I wouldn't confuse Washington rhetoric with the isolationist mood of the populace in general, some things never change. The shoot if shot at declaration was still in international waters and came after 1 US DD was torpedoed and damaged and another had been sunk and still we did not declare war because the US populace wasn't for it, even though the Nazi's had defeated all but Britain in the west and was invading successfully Russian in the east. Remember one of the greatest living American heroes, Lindbergh, was a leading isolationist and many Americans would not be in favor of going to war over some far-flung Dutch possession that they couldn't pronounce. Even Roosevelt felt he had to let the Japanese make the first overt action and a small incident would probably not be sufficent for a quick Declaration of War, more like a longer debated one as incidents, accidental of course, accumulated. That's why history is so interesting you never know what might have happened if one or two things had happened differently, but fun to play it out here.

< Message edited by Bif1961 -- 8/7/2017 11:43:10 PM >

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Post #: 4989
RE: October 1944 - 8/8/2017 7:41:39 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		October 26, 1944

Took a nice swipe at Dan's B-24s this day.



Five Tonan Maru whalers drop anchor at Tokyo and over 72,000 Oil and 12,000 resources start to unload.





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Post #: 4990
RE: October 1944 - 8/8/2017 7:43:27 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

October 26, 1944

Took a nice swipe at Dan's B-24s this day.



Since we're left to guess what sort of outcome this suggests, I'll posit that you damaged 14 B-24s and lost 8 of yours to A2A?

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RE: October 1944 - 8/8/2017 8:16:42 PM   
Lecivius


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From: Denver
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

October 26, 1944

Took a nice swipe at Dan's B-24s this day.



Since we're left to guess what sort of outcome this suggests, I'll posit that you damaged 14 B-24s and lost 8 of yours to A2A?


It's a GREAT day for Japan!!






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Post #: 4992
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 12:56:45 AM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Fine. I see how you guys are. Gonna have to condition you readers as I have Dan.

Tuesday is INVENTORY and paperwork day for Subway. This translates to a very long day and a FAR LONGER night. Got to wait for detailed stuff once this day is done.


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Post #: 4993
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 1:23:43 AM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus



I have no idea what "wild or unorthodox" strategy Japan would pursue to achieve auto-victory. The DEI must still be taken. The Phillipines and Malaysia must be taken at some point. Units must still be purchased from Manchuria. Factories must still be upgraded and brought online. There is no magic formula for Japanese auto-victory. A Japanese player going for auto-victory is simply more aggressive in the early going. And a Japanese strategy for auto-victory need not focus in 1 January 1943. In fact, it is not likely that Japan will achieve a 4x VP ratio by 1 January 1943. Why not 1 January 1944 or at any point in 1943?




Well, I am talking about fairly matched players. I think most will agree in that case that the best chance for AV is 1/43. Unless you are playing a player out of your class AV in 1/44 is just not possible. AV attempts can go for different routes, including taking OZ out, taking India out, taking out Hawaii, or even a stab at the West Coast. However, it usually calls for a maximum burn in supplies, fuel and aircraft in an attempt to overwhelm. What can't be done in this case is a to construct defensive positions where needed, stockpiling of supplies, or the ability to block Allied moves into vulnerable neglected theaters. If the AV stab does not work and the Allied player has not totally screwed up, then I can assure you the Japanese economy's chance for lasting into 1945 is nil. As said before, I have seen enough to know that most AV runs fail and the game usually ends shortly after that point. One of my favorite AARs is the Rader vs Greyjoy one from a few years back. Rader took on an inexperienced Greyjoy and ran the table in India. I think Karachi was Greyjoy's last important city left. Greyjoy held on by a thread, and countered by invading Hokkaido in 1943. Rader failed to get his AV and Greyjoy was entrenched in the Home Islands with two years of fighting left to go.

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Post #: 4994
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 3:30:47 AM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

The shoot if shot at declaration was still in international waters and came after 1 US DD was torpedoed and damaged and another had been sunk


It wasn't "shoot if shot at", it was "shoot on sight". Rossevelt issued his order in September 1941. The two DD's (USS Kearny and USS Reuben James) were torpedoed in October.

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Post #: 4995
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 4:21:55 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		What does your Fighter Bomber air force look like...I can't recall ever seeing them in use.

Also, to bombard you with questions on a busy day...have you ever night bombed an Allied port? How about night bombing Chungking for a little payback? Karma, you know.


(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 4996
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 8:38:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		October 27, 1944

Japan is constantly seeking opening in which to get in a punch or blow upon the Allied Forces. Most have ended in failure but this day sees a nice addition to the 'Allied Sunk' line.

With the Allied landing to the east, the Japanese advance two ID into Chaochow. As expected, the Allies respond by bringing a Bombardment Force and large APD Fast Transport TF. As the sun rises, Japanese air crews sortie from Canton and Hong Kong. Due to the supply shortage in western China, these bases have not been active. Last week, several convoys from the DEI arrived and deposited more troops from back water areas as well as 15,000 supply.

Quietly, air units have moved into these bases and today they strike. Two raids come in on the Allied Forces. A few Japanese Fighters escort 53 Torpedo Bombers. They easily fight past half a dozen Allied Fighters and hits are scored on seven of nine American APDs. A second strike containing 23 high experience Judy pilots follows (versus just 1 Fighter) and plant those big, beautiful 800 Kg bombs on numerous targets: DD Satterlee takes 2 B, 3 more APD take 2 B, and yet three more APDs get smacked by single bombs. That would make a total of 11 hits out of 23 dropped.

Nice shootin' TEX!

Numerous sinking sounds are heard during the wrap-up of the turn.

A weak, plaintive BANZAI rings out...





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Post #: 4997
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 8:43:02 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Having gotten the attention of the Allies on the west side of the China lodgemant, several large Daitai of DB and TB arrive at Shanghai that base two hexes SW of Shanghai. Ranges are set to only 1 or 2. Guarantee that we'll see action tomorrow over here in the east. Two Fighter Sentai reinforce the boys in Canton and Hong Kong to continue operations over there. Pretty certain at least one of the sides will get an opportunity for another solid punch on the 28th.

At Nagoya, a LARGE Tanker TF carrying 127,000 Oil drops anchor and begins to unload. This TF takes it to over 450,000 Fuel and Oil delivered--without opposition--in the last 10 days of time. GREAT!


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Post #: 4998
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 8:44:40 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Nice shootin' TEX!


Excuse me?!? That's *my* line!










ETA: Nice shootin', Tex.

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Post #: 4999
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 8:45:10 PM   
Lovejoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

October 27, 1944

DD Satterlee takes 2 B,




I hope Henry Fonda survived!

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Post #: 5000
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 8:45:42 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
This TF takes it to over 450,000 Fuel and Oil delivered--without opposition--in the last 10 days of time. GREAT!




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Post #: 5001
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 8:49:41 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
This TF takes it to over 450,000 Fuel and Oil delivered--without opposition--in the last 10 days of time. GREAT!





Thank You.

I am now running the Tankers back-and-forth as fast as possible. There are now 6-8 smaller TK TFs moving between Japan and the DEI. No opposition? FINE! We'll grab and haul as much as possible.

One thing is certain, I now have enough fuel/oil to go to the end of 1944. Anything now getting through builds on 1945. Pretty crazy to say 1945...


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Post #: 5002
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 8:50:23 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

October 27, 1944

DD Satterlee takes 2 B,




I hope Henry Fonda survived!


Did he serve on the Satterlee?

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Post #: 5003
RE: October 1944 - 8/9/2017 10:47:26 PM   
Lovejoy


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

October 27, 1944

DD Satterlee takes 2 B,




I hope Henry Fonda survived!


Did he serve on the Satterlee?

Yup! He was a Quartermaster 3rd Class.

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Post #: 5004
RE: October 1944 - 8/10/2017 3:21:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		October 28, 1944

Well..we got action in China. Not the kind I wanted. A strike of 43 Fighters escorting 56 TB run into a CAP of 191 Allied Fighters over Ningpo. You can imagine. Two TB survive to drop TTs at an APA but miss.

Oh, well...





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Post #: 5005
RE: October 1944 - 8/10/2017 3:27:04 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		October 28, 1944

The Fleet is concentrating at Soerabaja and doing some serious upkeep.

We are going to try two things:

1. The remaining Battle Fleet (3 BB and 4 BC and 12 DD) shall return to the Home Islands for attempted use against the Allied Forces.

2. Have an idea with the Carriers. Dan has methodically moved his transport TFs through every two months. His last one was a month ago. It came from the Marshalls and then went to the Philippines. OK. Am going to count on that. The entire Carrier Force will move to Saipan or Pagan and wait for an opportunity to strike with their full strength. I have AOs full with nearly 100,000 Fuel. Should be enough to allow for some maneuvering...


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Post #: 5006
RE: October 1944 - 8/10/2017 4:20:36 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Are you doing any sweeps?

How could you think that there would be a small CAP...in fact over a major forward base 200 plane CAP by the Allies is light and something you need to figure out how to penetrate.

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Post #: 5007
RE: October 1944 - 8/10/2017 5:08:37 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I set three Sentai (49 Plane Franks) to Sweep and then the Strike go in during the afternoon. No Sweeps and, of course, the strike went in...


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Post #: 5008
RE: October 1944 - 8/10/2017 6:30:26 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I set three Sentai (49 Plane Franks) to Sweep and then the Strike go in during the afternoon. No Sweeps and, of course, the strike went in...



Seems to happen a fair bit that the sweepers don't fly, especially true when flying from different bases in poor weather areas. Also, if I transfer a squadron to a base and then try for a mission the day of the transfer it often doesn't fly depending upon who knows what...plane stacking, runway size, HQa, leadership, morale or supply needs.

Can make hit and run raids hard.

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Post #: 5009
RE: October 1944 - 8/10/2017 6:45:43 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		You speak good GOSPEL there! Have experienced the same thing many times.

On the bright side, I heard two more sinking sounds during the turn. My smacking of that DD and APDs at least yielded some decent sinkings.


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Post #: 5010
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