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RE: November 1944 - 9/18/2017 11:52:39 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I guess that gives CR a black eye and gives you a bunch of points but you are sinking empty ships while a convoy of supplies goes forward to support the fighting. Could you ambush the incoming stuff before the protection shows up?


I'd prefer sinking laden ships to empty ones, of course. Who wouldn't? But I'd also prefer sinking empty ships to laden ones that are heavily escorted. You dance with who you brought, not who you wish you would have brought.

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RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 12:04:37 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Notice we stage one heck of a nice ambush over Ternate this day.


Vitamin A-20 for your fighters! Delightful!

Nice shootin' Tex.

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Post #: 5192
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 12:17:48 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		It was pleasant to watch. Doesn't happen nearly as often as time passes.

My goal is to seriously load up on some VP and crap all over his re-supply planning.


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Post #: 5193
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 3:00:39 AM   
palioboy2

 

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Status: offline 		Plus those ships are empty now but sinking a fleet of xAKs will throw a serious wrench into the timing of his logistics even if they are empty.

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Post #: 5194
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 4:52:59 AM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

Plus those ships are empty now but sinking a fleet of xAKs will throw a serious wrench into the timing of his logistics even if they are empty.


Honestly, at this point it wont have any significant effect full or empty.

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Post #: 5195
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 10:26:41 AM   
JohnDillworth


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Status: offline 		If the Chinese are attacking in numbers and winning they have upgraded to their 1943 squads. If so that means China is flush with supply and it is not coming from Australian convoys. You might be able to pinch distribution but the supply war is over for the Allies. Speaking of supply in China what does your situation look like for the empire in China?



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Post #: 5196
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 11:42:56 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

It was pleasant to watch. Doesn't happen nearly as often as time passes.

My goal is to seriously load up on some VP and crap all over his re-supply planning.



If you can make the VP math work out this is really useful in the late war. The Allies are trying to get to 2:1 so if you're sinking ships and gaining VPs for that activity (assuming there is no opportunity cost loss for having your ships/planes there to sink them) then it makes it harder for the Allies to gain.

If though these forays are taking vital forces away from defence of strategic concerns at home, then you're gains might be offset by massive bombing, landings and other VP gains that these forces could help offset back there.

All depends on what he's giving you and what he's taking.

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Post #: 5197
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 12:46:31 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

If the Chinese are attacking in numbers and winning they have upgraded to their 1943 squads. If so that means China is flush with supply and it is not coming from Australian convoys. You might be able to pinch distribution but the supply war is over for the Allies. Speaking of supply in China what does your situation look like for the empire in China?



quote:


If though these forays are taking vital forces away from defence of str


Supply was fairly good to start with but now is getting scarce. Only gonna get worse there...

November 30, 1944

Twelve Tankers drop anchor at Tokyo and nearly 150,000 Fuel and Oil begin to be delivered.


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Post #: 5198
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 12:48:47 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

It was pleasant to watch. Doesn't happen nearly as often as time passes.

My goal is to seriously load up on some VP and crap all over his re-supply planning.



If you can make the VP math work out this is really useful in the late war. The Allies are trying to get to 2:1 so if you're sinking ships and gaining VPs for that activity (assuming there is no opportunity cost loss for having your ships/planes there to sink them) then it makes it harder for the Allies to gain.

If though these forays are taking vital forces away from defence of strategic concerns at home, then you're gains might be offset by massive bombing, landings and other VP gains that these forces could help offset back there.

All depends on what he's giving you and what he's taking.



Does it truly matter at this point? I cannot stop/fight his forces in a toe-to-toe match. I'm trying to set my sights on some sort of attack that might see some benefit for the loss potential. The fate of my Kongo's show what lies in front of Japan if the remains of the Kaigun are committed to a head-on assault.


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Post #: 5199
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 12:50:20 PM   
John 3rd


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This day, a squadron of Ventura's gets jumped by a detached Daitai of Sams over Dobadura. The squadron doesn't have many survivors.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/19/2017 12:51:10 PM >

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RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 12:52:52 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		In a lot of ways, this is really a strange end game.

It seems that everything west of Shanghai will fall relatively quickly, except for maybe a few holdout cities.

Of course that isn't enough for the Allies to get 2-1. How many strategic vp thru bombing/air campaign will the Allies need to hit that magical number?

I can remember sinking 10 CVE and thereby gaining something like 1500 victory points in one turn. It took the Allies three days of bombing to recover 3000 vp.

It is not apparent to me that the Allies are really trying to win the air war over Honshu which allows them to achieve such stellar bombing results. After Formosa, I thought Japan's fighter force would never recover...wrong again.

So, whatever Japan has done (thinking here force & factory preservation)
, it has worked for now at least. Never, have I seen the deathstar being used so timidly in late 1944.

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Post #: 5201
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 12:55:46 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Concise and well said.

I will say one thing about my Fighters. Tomorrow--December 1, 1944--will see the beginning of production of the A7M3-J Sam. I shifted ALL my Sam factories to research and brought it forward two months. Here is a 400MPH Fighter with SIX 30mm guns...

I'm gonna kill some bombers...


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Post #: 5202
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 2:52:38 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Concise and well said.

I will say one thing about my Fighters. Tomorrow--December 1, 1944--will see the beginning of production of the A7M3-J Sam. I shifted ALL my Sam factories to research and brought it forward two months. Here is a 400MPH Fighter with SIX 30mm guns...

I'm gonna kill some bombers...



I have often thought that the Sam J might very well be the best night fighter in the game. I have nothing to back that up, but I think its heavy guns might overcome the penalty.

Anyways, Dec 1, 1944 is a great date to get the SamJ. Can't wait to see it in action.

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Post #: 5203
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 4:09:56 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
I'm gonna kill some bombers...


Pictures or it didn't happen.

How's the rest of your fighter pool right now-both day and night?

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Post #: 5204
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 4:16:03 PM   
John 3rd


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Ahhhhhh...MISTER Poultry Man...here is your evidence. They are all going into the Home Islands.

Am bringing back 8-9 Naval Fighter Groups from China and elsewhere so they can re-equip.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5205
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 5:04:51 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

December 1, 1944

Ahhhhhh...MISTER Poultry Man...here is your evidence. They are all going into the Home Islands.

Am bringing back 8-9 Naval Fighter Groups from China and elsewhere so they can re-equip.



No no no...I meant when you start shooting down bombers with your newest toys, please provide the details. It will warm the cockles of my heart when a big unescorted B-29 night strike gets cut to ribbons by your fighters.

I was also referring to your general fighter pools that you have available (Sam, Frank, Tony, etc.) as well as dedicated night fighters. Whatcha got?

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RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 5:51:53 PM   
zuluhour


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Status: offline 		I experienced no great loss to night fighters, unescorted at night. I remember raids of over 500 planes, which break down into packets, against
100+ fighters with far more OP and Flak losses. The smaller 8-10 plane "packets" often stoking the fires by the initial wave unopposed and coming home spic and span. I do recall that no CAP is a HUGE mistake. This where fires can get to 700,ooo+ in one night.
2 cents

* One of my regrets was being unable, in '46 to get one massive 750-1000 plane raid up in daylight over a well swept target. I hope Dan can do it, and I hope John doesn't have to see it.

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 9/19/2017 5:55:02 PM >

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Post #: 5207
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 8:53:49 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

It will warm the cockles of my heart when a big unescorted B-29 night strike gets cut to ribbons by your fighters.


What, you have a heart?





Now darnit, quit pulling out that shotgun!!

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Post #: 5208
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 9:44:32 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		OK. Here are the current production numbers as well as pools. Add to this the just under 400 a month of the new Sam:





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 5209
RE: November 1944 - 9/19/2017 11:38:27 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

It will warm the cockles of my heart when a big unescorted B-29 night strike gets cut to ribbons by your fighters.


What, you have a heart?





Now darnit, quit pulling out that shotgun!!


Well, admittedly, it's a black one. And two sizes too small.

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Post #: 5210
RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 12:56:59 AM   
palioboy2

 

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Status: offline 		To somebody playing the Allied side those fighter numbers are extremely demoralizing. Is that normally achievable or an effect of this Mod?

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RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 12:50:01 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

To somebody playing the Allied side those fighter numbers are extremely demoralizing. Is that normally achievable or an effect of this Mod?


The Japanese player has full control over his plane production.

The balance is the supply required to build factories and fighter planes. The Japanese can go way overboard on this but it will destroy the economy. You cannot fly planes without supply.

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Post #: 5212
RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 1:11:41 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Wargmr is correct. My supply situation is pretty shaky in the Home Islands. It is not horrible but it certainly is not good. Course one also has to realize it is December 1944.

Biggest saving grace is that I've been allowed to bring home all this fuel and oil. If I didn't get another drop home, I am good through March-April 1945.

Don't know how this can be so demoralizing though. Dan certainly does not have any want for aircraft presently. Biggest difference vs RL is my pilots are still pretty good. Quality has gone done with the continuous fighting since he moved on Luzon at the beginning of the year but it is still pretty fair.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/20/2017 1:12:48 PM >

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RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 2:05:11 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Don't know how this can be so demoralizing though. Dan certainly does not have any want for aircraft presently. Biggest difference vs RL is my pilots are still pretty good. Quality has gone done with the continuous fighting since he moved on Luzon at the beginning of the year but it is still pretty fair.


You are wrong here John. The Allies have lots of planes, yes, but they need to get air superiority and for that they need Jugs, Corsairs, better Mustangs, and their British counterparts. Those numbers don't really start arriving till 1945...in big enough numbers to offset what you have achieved.

So, that leaves night bombing, and bombing where the Japanese air force isn't.

Those pool numbers are outstanding, and definitely highlight how the Allies are fighting an uncoordinated war. If instead of bombing manpower, all the night bombing to date was focused on plane and engine production and vehicle production, well it would be a greatly different war.

And where the Allies can't reach Honshu, they should have bombed the light industry back to the stone age everywhere else.

That the Allies showed no desire to stop tanker shipments to Honshu, from about June of 1944 is an incredible oversight.

Those three Allied strategic mistakes have allowed John to really run a Japanese endgame to be proud off. Now, to what degree did John's force preservation tactic cause the above three mistakes? Not to mention John was astute enough to accelerate the fighters that mattered...Sam, Frank, and now Sam J.

Fascinating questions.

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Post #: 5214
RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 2:18:57 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Thank You Lowpe.

No issues with your above statement whatsoever.

I have been ALLOWED to progress this far. Why? Don't know but really don't care. It is what it is.

If I can have all of December 1944 to run full-scale production of everything then this will be fascinating. The units being destroyed in China are re-spawning in Tokyo. I presently have seven ID and nine Brigades/Regiments rebuilding in Tokyo presently with more on the way. Given more time, my goal is to have at least 3-4 ID at every LIKELY invasion beach with Forts already at 6. The landings will come and they will be BLOODY. We'll lose but it will be interesting.

Remember that once this all-out assault on China became known, I stated that it should allow me to get to 1945 intact. Looks pretty probable that that will be the case...


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RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 2:25:05 PM   
Lecivius


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Status: offline 		Strategic question here, from an AFB point of view. I always thought it was a good idea to firebomb manpower, and let the fires cook various industries. Lowpe above suggests in certain conditions that may not be true. So my question. Does it hurt Japan to focus on plane/engine production more than manpower, and accept the smaller damage numbers delivered?

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RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 2:47:39 PM   
BillBrown


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Status: offline 		What I understand, bombing specific engine and/or airframe factories will damage them. They would have to be repaired at 1000 supply per point to be able to produce again.
Bombing manpower causes fires/firestorms and that will destroy all types of factories/HI/LI, etc. They have to be completely rebuilt.
Damaged factories provide 2 VPs per point, destroyed factories provide 20 VPs per point.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 9/20/2017 7:13:51 PM >

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Post #: 5217
RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 2:48:42 PM   
AcePylut


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Status: offline 		If an allied player bombed out all the air factories and the IJ couldn’t build anymore, would the IJ player have thrown in the towel? If the Allied player had shut off all that fuel and oil, and caused Japans economy to crash 1 month ago, would the IJ player soldier on? There is some merit to giving Japan “just enough” to keep fighting.
Not to many IJ players will do so once it’s apparent the game is “over”. Not only is there SLCS, but there’s Sudden Loss Crashed Economy Syndrome. Sudden Loss Factories Destroyed Syndrome. Sudden Quit Expansion Phase Over….which is sad, imho, because this is inevitable and every IJ player should be aware of it on December 7th 1941 and not start a game unless they accept it.

I’ll commend John for sticking with the game! Gratzie!


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Post #: 5218
RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 4:43:31 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		It ain't easy bein' Japaneasy...


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Post #: 5219
RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 5:35:02 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		I agree with Professor Lowpe, but would add in the targeting of Refineries. No matter how much oil is in Japan, you still need fuel for ships and HI.

I think Dan really needs to play Japan just once to truly understand what needs to be preserved as '45 approaches.

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Post #: 5220
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