Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Well, that's not what he said. And this is a super-powered-Japan mod that he himself wrote.

But sure, Scenario 1 is hard for Japan, especially if they try to invade Oz or India, which the devs never intended be done in Scenario 1. If they expand and then hunker down, don't abuse the economy, and play the island game well, they can win the game.

Ok, I am reading between the lines and giving the benefit of doubt.

This mod, as I understand it super jacked up the ships Japan has, but left the economy and ground forces at scenario 1 levels.

And I think that makes this game a little tougher for Japan as the economy is more likely to crash and burn. Which it should have by now if the Allies were on their game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Well, that's not what he said. And this is a super-powered-Japan mod that he himself wrote.

But sure, Scenario 1 is hard for Japan, especially if they try to invade Oz or India, which the devs never intended be done in Scenario 1. If they expand and then hunker down, don't abuse the economy, and play the island game well, they can win the game.

Ok, I am reading between the lines and giving the benefit of doubt.

This mod, as I understand it super jacked up the ships Japan has, but left the economy and ground forces at scenario 1 levels.

And I think that makes this game a little tougher for Japan as the economy is more likely to crash and burn. Which it should have by now if the Allies were on their game.

John has said a bunch of times that what you say about the economy is true. But right now his economy isn't crashing, or the problem really. He used his expanded IJN aggressively, which CR has seen before, and it bit him. He let China lag, undefeated, and it's biting him now. He hasn't really focused much on ASW. He played on the fringes even as CR drove for his heartlands in the PI, then Formosa, and now mainland Asia. Those were all decisions, not mod givens.

I don't mean to criticize in someone's own AAR, and lordy I have made my share of whoopsies in my games. My only point was that Japan losing is not inevitable in any scenario. If the game design is respected. Over the past near-decade, Japan players have optimized the hell out of the design. Much less innovation for the Allies, since so little can be changed and a lot of it is in the EXE. I suspect the devs would do some things differently if they had known how much smart Japan players would wring out of the design.

If you want to play AE aggressively, best to play the Allies. Some Japan players can do it and get away with it, but most can't. They suffer a loss that can't be recovered. Many walk at that point. Alfred used to make the point that the pleasure in playing Japan is in the optimization and defensive game, the playing not to lose. Few people can do that over a period of real-time years. I think John should play the Allies in a Scenario 1 game. It might fit him better.

quote:

I think John should play the Allies in a Scenario 1 game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

What sets me off here is the fundamental difference between an Allied player and a Japanese player. In 1942 and/or 1943 the Allied player KNOWS that no matter what he loses or what defeats are inflicted on him and his units, he will still win. Look at this match for perfect example. You might be beaten up for a while but no how you play--good or bad--you will still win. The Japanese player gets the heady days of 1942 and know no mater what he does--no matter how perfectly he plays--he will still lose. Put simply the Allied player always has hope and the Japanese player never has it. We--Japanese players--play for the excited of the start and hoped for standing tall at the end. That is the difference from my perspective.

Might be wrong but that is my opinion.

You are wrong. I lost a PBEM as the Allies to a great Japan player. Auto-vic 1/1/43. Humbling. It can be done.

I am playing a great Japan player in Lokasenna in late October 1944. I'm at about 1.5:1 against in VPs, struggling to eke out a draw--maybe--in 1946. It can be done.

You lost an epic carrier battle through miscalculation and aggressive hubris. It was the turning point in this game, far more than anything that happened at Sumatra. I'm sure you learned from it, as I have learned many times in the two games I named. But this lament "Japan can't win" is simply untrue.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


Auto-vic was DBB with stacking limits, my first DBB and first stacking limits. Not his.

The Loka game is Stock Scenario 2 with PDU ON, and ahistoric R&D. My own brand of hubris.

I think your sentiments are dead on, but I will add a caveat. Scenario 1 style games, which this is not, is exceptionally difficult for Japan to make June of 45. Japanese AV is almost never a threat.

Scenario 2 style games the threat of Japanese AV is high, and the possibility of making 1946 is high.

The number of actual JFBs that have made it to the end game in a pbem is very low, and the mistake rate of JFBs in the end game is super high and absolutely unforgiving.

I think that is what John is trying to express.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


The difference here is that I don't believe in auto-victory. When I start I plan to go to the end...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


Auto-vic was DBB with stacking limits, my first DBB and first stacking limits. Not his.

The Loka game is Stock Scenario 2 with PDU ON, and ahistoric R&D. My own brand of hubris.

I think your sentiments are dead on, but I will add a caveat. Scenario 1 style games, which this is not, is exceptionally difficult for Japan to make June of 45. Japanese AV is almost never a threat.

Scenario 2 style games the threat of Japanese AV is high, and the possibility of making 1946 is high.

The number of actual JFBs that have made it to the end game in a pbem is very low, and the mistake rate of JFBs in the end game is super high and absolutely unforgiving.

I think that is what John is trying to express.

Well, that's not what he said. And this is a super-powered-Japan mod that he himself wrote.

But sure, Scenario 1 is hard for Japan, especially if they try to invade Oz or India, which the devs never intended be done in Scenario 1. If they expand and then hunker down, don't abuse the economy, and play the island game well, they can win the game.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

ORIGINAL: MBF

Who is Ad Cochrane ?

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

THIS VERSION of RA is too strong for any form of balance. As I must continually state, Treaty--RA--Between the Storms are all AltNav Hist. Few changes/additions to the IJA. It is all IJN. This version was started over five years ago and RA has been massively re-tooled off of lessons learned here and elsewhere.

Just ask my able partner-in-crime--Michael--about this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

THIS VERSION of RA is too strong for any form of balance. As I must continually state, Treaty--RA--Between the Storms are all AltNav Hist. Few changes/additions to the IJA. It is all IJN. This version was started over five years ago and RA has been massively re-tooled off of lessons learned here and elsewhere.

Just ask my able partner-in-crime--Michael--about this.

This version of RA had Japan get stock CVs plus those John added to the mod. The newest versions have had some play testing done (I'm in Feb 43 as Japan vs Gen Patton in BTSL) and had played John as Allies in 1 of 3 games that was overloading him. I've offered up my insights for both sides and allowed John to focus mainly on the different ship classes. The Allies have some bigger teeth at start as 1EyedJack found out in Java Sea in Feb '42. John is the historian for the period between the two World Wars, not me.

I would strongly recommend the new versions that are getting their finishes touches done now. However, I would say that your take a close look at what 'toys' your opponent gets at start and through the war before doing orders for turn 1. Enough shuffling of warships have occurred that if you go 'bump in the night' your TF may make a nice coral reef.

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Moose's Post at the top of the page has few things I would contradict in it.

Comments:
1. I went for a quiet China. Won't happen in the next game.
2. Totally wrong on ASW. I have crushed CR's subs whenever they have appeared. In fact, I believe some people earlier cried fould when I stated how many IJA Bomber Sentai I fighting just Allied SS. This is something all JFB need to do. Take 4-6 of those bombers units, train them up in Low Nav, ASW, and Search (takes over a year) and then USE THEM! My Surface ASW has been pretty successful as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Moose's Post at the top of the page has few things I would contradict in it.

Comments:
1. I went for a quiet China. Won't happen in the next game.
2. Totally wrong on ASW. I have crushed CR's subs whenever they have appeared. In fact, I believe some people earlier cried fould when I stated how many IJA Bomber Sentai I fighting just Allied SS. This is something all JFB need to do. Take 4-6 of those bombers units, train them up in Low Nav, ASW, and Search (takes over a year) and then USE THEM! My Surface ASW has been pretty successful as well.
3. Don't disagree with much else in the top paragraph. Pretty fair synopsis.
4. Everyone loses the 'big one' at some point in the game. Mine occurred in mid-1943. Numerous mistakes were made on my side and they were compounded by the reality of trying to play three matches at the same time with only limited time availability. STUPID on my part. I could/should have fought that battle in the Central Pacific far differently.

As Lowpe and Chickenboy has stated, it is learning this end game side that is most important.

Cannot wait to use the knowledge gained for the next match.

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
30 Kamikaze Judy hitting ships at nearby Camaguin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhon the III

Up north, the forgotten base of Batan roars back into life as 31 Sam escort 30 Kamikaze Judy hitting ships at nearby Camaguin. This strike brushes aside 7 Beaufighters and smacks an LST with 2 Hits, a LSI(L) with two hits and another LCI (L) with a single smack. Five hits from 30 planes. Not bad there either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: John the III
His SS have been a non-factor in this match. That should be declared victory unto itself.

I would be truly curious as to how many he has lost.