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RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 10:16:15 AM   
kjnoel

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 3/10/2011
Status: offline 		The SCTF composition is an interesting point, there are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. I wish I knew the answer as well!

One thing I would say though; if you know there are cruisers there why would you send in a bombardment group? You are putting them at a disadvantage right off the bat; even if they get good rolls what's the purpose in a bombardment at this stage... damaged facilities... destroyed airframes? Is that really worth fighting a sea battle at a disadvantage you don't have to accept? Surely it's better to devote today into clearing out the enemy covering forces and then using bombardment when you think you might meet ships, not when you know you will meet them...

The main value of Akyab is to bring in supplies. Even if you damage the facilities he can still bring in ships, they just unload slower; and if he has the normal number of Allied engineers there any damage will be repaired quickly anyway.

I would phase it so that I drove off the covering forces, then bombardment to cripple the airfield, and then airpower to keep it closed with bombardments thrown in to help. I'm assuming you have at least 1 AKE at PB to keep the big boys rolling.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 781
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 12:52:08 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kjnoel


One thing I would say though; if you know there are cruisers there why would you send in a bombardment group? You are putting them at a disadvantage right off the bat; even if they get good rolls what's the purpose in a bombardment at this stage... damaged facilities... destroyed airframes? Is that really worth fighting a sea battle at a disadvantage you don't have to accept? Surely it's better to devote today into clearing out the enemy covering forces and then using bombardment when you think you might meet ships, not when you know you will meet them...

The main value of Akyab is to bring in supplies. Even if you damage the facilities he can still bring in ships, they just unload slower; and if he has the normal number of Allied engineers there any damage will be repaired quickly anyway.

I would phase it so that I drove off the covering forces, then bombardment to cripple the airfield, and then airpower to keep it closed with bombardments thrown in to help. I'm assuming you have at least 1 AKE at PB to keep the big boys rolling.


+1. Especially the bit about not bombarding when there are enemy combatants sitting in the hex. If they are cruisers, you stand the chance of encountering them either on the way in (die rolls against you because you're in a bombardment TF) or on the way out (your ships likely "winchester" on main batteries). The former would be disadvantageous, the latter disastrous.

If you want to kill enemy ships then kill enemy ships. You won't get a risk-free bombardment option / opportunity until they've been dealt with.

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Post #: 782
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 2:24:25 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		What I am saying is that I think the first time should be to KILL ships. When we did this about 6 weeks ago in game time a cruiser TF held off my BBs due to it being a bombardment mission. I'd like to SMASH the ships protecting the base and then bombard on the next run. The question is more specifically addressed to whether or not the BBs should be grouped in one big TF or two.


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Post #: 783
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 2:31:07 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Hi John,

What guarantee do you have that he won't have ships there after your first "go" at Akyab? Couldn't he have some SCTF rotation there? You damage Allied CA "X", he withdraws it. Next turn, he replaces it with another capable defense.

Your assumption that you will clear opposition and keep it cleared until your bombardment group goes in is flawed. Consider what you're doing with the Tojos-sweep, sweep and sweep some more. SCTF, SCTF and SCTF some more if you want to clear Akyab.

As far as the secondary question of TF construction, I have no issues with a mixed (same speed-ish) TF consisting of 1-2 BB, 1-2 CA, a CL and 4-5 DDs. Others have professions of faith for keeping similar caliber (and engagement envelope) guns together-hence ONLY BBs and DDs or ONLY CAs and DDs to avoid the disparate engagements that can result from having multiple engagement envelopes.

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Post #: 784
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 3:45:55 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Hey Chickenman.

I cannot keep it cleared but I can darned well sink some cruisers. Think I'll do a combination. How about sending in Nagato--Mutsu and escorts as a STF followed by the other BBs as a Bombardment Group. The Bigger Boys blast away at shipping present while others bombard. The CVEs will provide LRCAP for the TFs as they approach and pull back. Will not fool around. It will be a HIGH Speed attack run. Get them in and get them out AT NIGHT!

My opponent is seriously fixated on the 21st ID. Another Deliberate Attack on the 23rd with the same 1-2 result. Disruption in that fine ID goes DOWN from the previous day and inflicts 2-1 in casualties upon the Allies. Four units will enter the hex tomorrow and greatly aid the ID.

He has managed to BLAST the 33rd and 2nd TK into a lot of disruption. A total of 122 bombers hit those units today. Not inflicting a lot of casualties but disruption is moving up into the 70s. Am two days from the Aussies and I may have to abort this and pull back to Magwe if things don't improve next turn.

Flew a set of excellent Sweeps against Akyab today. Three Tojo Sentai went in and CRUSHED Allied fighters (4 Tj for 26 Allied). Will he EVER run out of fighters in those pools?!!!

Headed to work. Won't be back for another turn for 5-6 hours. Any more commentary regarding the BBs or anything else shall be appreciated.

BIG PS: He is really reconning the HELL out of the bases around Port Moresby. Merauke, Milne, Terapo, etc... I think the hammer is about to be thrown and I TRULY hope I have guessed right. I know it shall be MASSIVE, he will not retreat, he will take HUGE losses and he will not care.



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/4/2013 3:49:54 PM >

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Post #: 785
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 3:51:16 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

He has managed to BLAST the 33rd and 2nd TK into a lot of disruption. Not inflicting a lot of casualties but disruption is moving up into the 70s. Am two days from the Aussies and I may have to abort this and pull back to Magwe if things don't improve next turn.


What does blast refer to? Is this air strikes? Are you moving in move mode or combat mode?

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Post #: 786
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 4:04:50 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
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From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Love a good nail biter!

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Post #: 787
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 4:15:06 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

He has managed to BLAST the 33rd and 2nd TK into a lot of disruption. Not inflicting a lot of casualties but disruption is moving up into the 70s. Am two days from the Aussies and I may have to abort this and pull back to Magwe if things don't improve next turn.


What does blast refer to? Is this air strikes? Are you moving in move mode or combat mode?


Combat Mode.


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Post #: 788
Proposal - 6/4/2013 4:16:42 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Dan doesn't want to talk about ANYTHING in our email exchanges so I made a proposal:

Those boys are eating their wheaties after being hit 5 days in a row! Tough guys and DID NOT Mean the last turn it means over the last week of time. Maybe we should open a joint thread where things CAN be said to each without crisis? I want to be able to have back-and-forth for fun but I feel like NOTHING can EVER be said. I’ve been pretty good about but sometimes things brought up that are in the past still, evidently, fit the don’t talk about mold. Not angry—just frustrated--here and proposing an idea.

Here is a resend of the files.

Headed to work.

Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: 10-23

You only sent the combat replay.

We leave on Saturday.

Please don't comment about events that just took place (like 21 Div. "eating their wheaties.")


Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 10:33 am
Subject: 10-23


Here you are. I’ll be back sometime later.

You said you leave for a week on Friday: right?

I think the 21st ID does not deserve all the attention it is getting. WARNING: They eat their wheaties!

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/4/2013 4:17:28 PM >

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Post #: 789
RE: Proposal - 6/4/2013 4:39:05 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
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From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline 		My $0.02 worth, if I asked you to not make comments about events in the current turn and you continued to do so, I would terminate the game.

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Post #: 790
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 4:39:12 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Hey Chickenman.

I cannot keep it cleared but I can darned well sink some cruisers. Think I'll do a combination. How about sending in Nagato--Mutsu and escorts as a STF followed by the other BBs as a Bombardment Group. The Bigger Boys blast away at shipping present while others bombard.


John, I'm sorry, but I must be clear here...

NO NO NO! BAD! BAD! BAD!

This setup MAY (or may not) have you engage enemy ships with your SCTF (yay!). It also MAY (or may not) have you engage enemy ships with your bombardment TF (oops!). Or your bombardment TF may be disrupted by the presence of enemy shipping (oops!).

Better to sweep with both SCTFs for a day. DO NOT SET THEM TO FOLLOW ONE ANOTHER, as that formula can lead to unintented consequences should one of the TFs withdraw post-engagement.

Certainly DO NOT have the CVEs follow this lot, as they may cycle through the target hex, just in time to be found by an enemy SCTF. They'll gut a CVE TF at night, I can guarantee you.

Can you arrange for some LRCAP from LBA? It's better than nothing and may be sufficient to break up Allied naval strikes.

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Post #: 791
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 4:42:21 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Flew a set of excellent Sweeps against Akyab today. Three Tojo Sentai went in and CRUSHED Allied fighters (4 Tj for 26 Allied).


This is certainly a positive trend. Very nice. Keep up the good work. I'll take a 4:26 exchange any day of the week.

Can you post a war-to-date list of airframes lost?

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Post #: 792
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 5:02:59 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Seems to me his request to have you not reveal things in the turn by mentioning them in the email before he's run it is a fair thing to ask, and that you're having trouble respecting his request. It would certainly bother me if I didn't want that kind of info and wanted to experience the running of the turn with no extra idea of what happened, yet you kept giving it out.

I know you guys have been through a lot together but something in that dialogue above seems odd, like it's gotten antagonistic in a bad way. In such a long process that would be hugely detrimental to my enjoyment of the game. Of course this is all between you guys, and you've been through it before, but I'd have a sit down and get it cleared up before it gets worse.

< Message edited by obvert -- 6/4/2013 5:03:53 PM >

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Post #: 793
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/4/2013 7:50:19 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		This is all fine, but how is the caboose looking. A few photos?

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Post #: 794
RE: Proposal - 6/4/2013 10:19:21 PM   
DTurtle

 

Posts: 443
Joined: 4/26/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Dan doesn't want to talk about ANYTHING in our email exchanges so I made a proposal:

Those boys are eating their wheaties after being hit 5 days in a row! Tough guys and DID NOT Mean the last turn it means over the last week of time. Maybe we should open a joint thread where things CAN be said to each without crisis? I want to be able to have back-and-forth for fun but I feel like NOTHING can EVER be said. I’ve been pretty good about but sometimes things brought up that are in the past still, evidently, fit the don’t talk about mold. Not angry—just frustrated--here and proposing an idea.

My suggestion would be not to send any comments about the current turn (that you are just sending and he hasn't read yet, but instead feel free to send comments about the last turn (that he has already run and sent back to you. That way you can make comments, without ruining his pleasure of running the turn blind.

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Post #: 795
RE: Proposal - 6/5/2013 1:31:41 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DTurtle

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Dan doesn't want to talk about ANYTHING in our email exchanges so I made a proposal:

Those boys are eating their wheaties after being hit 5 days in a row! Tough guys and DID NOT Mean the last turn it means over the last week of time. Maybe we should open a joint thread where things CAN be said to each without crisis? I want to be able to have back-and-forth for fun but I feel like NOTHING can EVER be said. I’ve been pretty good about but sometimes things brought up that are in the past still, evidently, fit the don’t talk about mold. Not angry—just frustrated--here and proposing an idea.

My suggestion would be not to send any comments about the current turn (that you are just sending and he hasn't read yet, but instead feel free to send comments about the last turn (that he has already run and sent back to you. That way you can make comments, without ruining his pleasure of running the turn blind.


He doesn't want to do that either. It is just frustrating. I LOVE going back-and-forth with my opponent. We had that fun reparte in our first game but something changed in those years that followed. For those who follow Dan's excellent AARs, did he get burned badly by an opponent? This really is different for him compared to before.

He also said no to the joint AAR idea.

Feel like I am going through the motions and simply talking about the weather...



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/5/2013 8:31:13 AM >

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Post #: 796
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/5/2013 1:33:48 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Hey Chickenman.

I cannot keep it cleared but I can darned well sink some cruisers. Think I'll do a combination. How about sending in Nagato--Mutsu and escorts as a STF followed by the other BBs as a Bombardment Group. The Bigger Boys blast away at shipping present while others bombard.


John, I'm sorry, but I must be clear here...

NO NO NO! BAD! BAD! BAD!

This setup MAY (or may not) have you engage enemy ships with your SCTF (yay!). It also MAY (or may not) have you engage enemy ships with your bombardment TF (oops!). Or your bombardment TF may be disrupted by the presence of enemy shipping (oops!).

Better to sweep with both SCTFs for a day. DO NOT SET THEM TO FOLLOW ONE ANOTHER, as that formula can lead to unintented consequences should one of the TFs withdraw post-engagement.

Certainly DO NOT have the CVEs follow this lot, as they may cycle through the target hex, just in time to be found by an enemy SCTF. They'll gut a CVE TF at night, I can guarantee you.

Can you arrange for some LRCAP from LBA? It's better than nothing and may be sufficient to break up Allied naval strikes.



Goodness, I would NEVER bring my CVEs anywhere near Akyab. VERY BAD! DISTANT COVER and, perhaps, a quick dart into the Bay of Bengal for a little hunting...

OK. Concur with the thinking over the last 20-25 entries. I will form two BB TF and send them in together to kill shipping. It shall, hopefully, be bloodily FUN to watch.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/5/2013 1:34:26 AM >

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Post #: 797
RE: October 22, 1942 - 6/5/2013 2:50:35 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		You still have us.

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Post #: 798
RE: Proposal - 6/5/2013 3:30:31 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Feel like I am going through the motions and simply talking about the weather...


Well make it rain blood then, damnit! We'll be happy to talk with you all about that!

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Post #: 799
October 24, 1942 - 6/5/2013 8:23:06 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		You want it Clucking Boy? You got it!

October 24, 1942

From Port Blair:

Rear Admiral Tanaka Raizo
BB Nagato--Mutsu, CL Natori, and 8 DD

Rear Admiral Kono
BB Yamashiro--Hyuga, CA Furutaka, and 8 DD

DESTINATION: Akyab

Rear Admiral Matsumoto
6 CVE (Saiyen, Kuzuryu, Hosho, Taiyo, Unyo, Chuyo: 62 Zero, 51 Val, 33 Kate) and 6 DD move towards the center of the Bay of Bengal for a 2-3 day raid.

Let us see what the BIG BOYS can sink while not being fettered with the need to do a bombardment as well.





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Post #: 800
RE: October 24, 1942 - 6/5/2013 10:24:54 AM   
kjnoel

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 3/10/2011
Status: offline 		Might as well play the AI if you can't talk about the game. It would drive me crazy!

I have both an Allied and Japanese opponent and the only rule is that the Japanese player doesn't talk about the replay that hasn't been seen yet. I would get bored without the posturing and insults in the emails

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Post #: 801
RE: October 24, 1942 - 6/5/2013 11:42:14 AM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Behind you, I have probably played more turns against Dan than anyone else. Sometimes we could go a couple of months of gametime without making any comments on the game......it is just his way and you will have to live with it. He will be happy to discuss this intense period of the game in time, but probably not until long after it has resolved itself one way or the other. Also there is nothing worse when playing as the Allied when the Jap player tells you everything that has happened during the turn....fair enough if there has been a big CV battle I would say something like "Big CV battle this turn" with the file....but something like "OMG I sank four of your CVs this turn whilst I only lost a CVL" is not on.

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Post #: 802
So it begins... - 6/5/2013 3:21:00 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks Miller. Appreciate the sentiment.

OK. It has started. Everyone to YELLOW ALERT.

Dan launched bombing attacks at Tennant Creek, Horn Island, and Port Hedlund. Nothing spectacular. He may have been surprised to find nearly 30 Tojo and Zero flying CAP over Horn. They chewed into his B-17s and Liberators pretty good.

Three TF have been spotted 'apparently' moving south of the Aleutians. I shall not take the bait. Vals attack the USS Hatfield SSE of Umnak. These are single DD TF meant to distract me and move/hold assets in place. Not gonna do it. Already have 150+ aircraft headed to Truk for the real fight. Order out my Northern Fleet assets and form a pair of hunter-killers. I have a CA and 4 DD and a CL and 3 DD out to get some easy red meat...

The CVEs move into the Bay of Bengal without being spotted. Should attack anything in the Bay next turn. The BBs move out slowly (due to fueling last turn). They are set to FULL SPEED and will hit Akyab into two turns.

I was asked for the air losses screen. Here it is. NASTY! Other then the Tojos, a great number of my losses resulted during the early phases of his Ramree Landings and early Burma fight when I had countless Daitai and Sentai impale themselves on CAP without escort.






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Post #: 803
RE: So it begins... - 6/5/2013 3:33:18 PM   
kjnoel

 

Posts: 104
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Status: offline 		Wow. I don't know how much (if anything) the Allied airframes were changed in RA but if this were stock then the RAF is pretty much done for hurricanes of all types and the USAAF is down to ~150 P40Es, 130 P40Ks and 250~ P39s (+ all the lesser number types of course)....

My numbers are probably out but they can't be out by that much; it screams to me that his fighter pools are close to running on empty.

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Post #: 804
RE: So it begins... - 6/5/2013 4:09:42 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		So are MINE! I cannot produce enough Tojos to keep everyone at full strength...

Turn in and Running it then off to work.


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Post #: 805
RE: So it begins... - 6/5/2013 4:17:03 PM   
Wuffer

 

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Status: offline 		Hi,

an alternative could be including any commentary in a seperate *.txt attachment, so CR is free when to read it...
Try a harmless header of course, like 'hello.txt' or 'info.txt' - than it's his problem if he reads it before watching the turn. :-)))


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Post #: 806
So it begins... - 6/5/2013 4:54:19 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks Wuffer

October 26, 1942

The CVEs put in an excellent attention getting performance as they claim the central Bay of Bengal for a day. Vals sink DD Arrow while Kates may have sunk DD Isis. These Dan's nuisance picket DDs. Nice work.

BBs spotted and shall hit Akyab tomorrow. KNOW thinks that they'll bombard! Only question is how many mines do we hit BEFORE the shells fly? CAPped these BBs with about 40 Zero for some protection tomorrow during retirement.

Just BLASTED the BFF Brig and 2/11 Field Art out of their blocking position between Katha and Mandalay. Supplies should flow for a bit.

Up NORTH my CL Isuzu and 3 DDs tangle with DD Bagley (one of the sacrificial lambs up there) and hit it pretty hard during two night engagements.

He--once again--attacks the 21st ID at 55,47 after hitting it with over 125 bombers. The Rain Forrest protects the troops only allowing 31 Casaulties. His assault is a Shock Attack and nets a 1-2 result. Have another ID moving up to help because the 21st is getting rather threadbare. Looks like he is giving up on the plains and moving into the jungle to try and open up Ramree. Order a TK Reg and Inf Reg to move from Prome north. Will add another ID once it rebuilds a bit.






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Post #: 807
RE: So it begins... - 6/5/2013 5:26:09 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Dan's attrition slugfests in Burma would alarm me as an Allied player. Squads are a problem but the loss of devices is critical for Commonwealth forces. The replacement rate is pitiful and will effect all Commonwealth units til the end of the war. I have been very careful and still have a few Indian divisions using 18 pounders and other obsolete equipment in 1945. Every tank is critical as you never get enough shermans to fill out all your units. You have to use Grants and Lees up to the very end. Best not to fritter them away.

I would call the British and Indian army a "glass cannon" It can grow amazingly powerful, but take a lot of losses and it is very brittle.
Australian divisions undergo radical upgrades and expansion late in the war that create a demand for key weapons that you just don't have. Six pound AT guns and 3 inch mortars come to mind but there are other things as well.

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Post #: 808
RE: So it begins... - 6/5/2013 5:33:44 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Very true CR, I am stock piling Aus '42 Inf squads in March '42 because even these guys are rare and I'm not sure where I'll really need them.

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Post #: 809
RE: So it begins... - 6/6/2013 11:30:22 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		This is the turn for excitement. Am starting it now after a LONG-A**ed day!

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(in reply to zuluhour)
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: October 22, 1942 Page: <<   < prev  25 26 [27] 28 29   next >   >>
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