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RE: So it begins... - 6/6/2013 11:39:13 PM

zuluhour

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I know I could'ent wait till you got home.

...love this part of the game.

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 6/6/2013 11:40:23 PM >

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Post #: 811

Uh--huh... - 6/7/2013 12:45:52 AM

John 3rd

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What happened on October 28, 1942 at Akyab?

NOTHING!

My BBs are set for a full speed run into Akyab and have hung-up TWO days in a row. Luckily nothing terrible has occurred and I must say that they have drawn away most of Mr. Roper's bombers who have accomplished little to nothing for two days of attacks upon them. Am finding Japanese heavy FLAK from the BBs is somewhat effective against his 4EB.

Will Post a screenshot in a moment.

ELSEWHERE:
North Pacific
Interesting. My STF sinks DD Bagley and recon picks up 4-5 TF operating just at the edge of Kate Range. My Umnak boys go in with 16 Zero and 19 Kate to find 24 Wildkittens flying CAP. Looks like we have at least 1-2 CVE. Shoot down 4-6 F4F for 4 Kates. The Kates easily break through and plant 3 bombs on an AK.

Why do I not take this seriously? It is October 28th. Anyone playing the game knows what happens up north on November 1st.

Move a Daitai of Nells, Kates, and a Chutai of Zeros to Umnak for another crack on the innocent shipping. We shall KILL them...

Central Pacific
Spot a TF or two moving past Kure threatening (apparently) Wake or Marcus. TRY IT!

South Pacific
My STF of CL Sendai and 3 DD sink an AKL and DD Phelps. Am LIKING sinking these sacrificial lambs in the IO, South Pacific, and North Pacific.

Begin congregating my airpower to the region. He is COMING. I feel it in my bones...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/7/2013 12:47:07 AM >

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Post #: 812

Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 12:53:35 AM

John 3rd

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Here is the screen shot for show the BB's movement. Any ideas?

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 813

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 3:31:38 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Here is the screen shot for show the BB's movement. Any ideas?

Gotta be a movement (full speed) setting mismatch. Screenie including any waypoints please.

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Post #: 814

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 4:24:19 AM

JuanG

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What threat tolerance do you have them set to? Could it be that the mines in the hex are somehow being considered 'to be avoided' at the current setting?

Does anyone know if TFs set to something other than 'absolute' will avoid mines? I have no personal experience in the matter since I always use 'absolute' for threat tolerance.

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Post #: 815

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 4:46:32 AM

John 3rd

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Lordy knows that there are ZILLIONS of mines present in the hex...

I've never had something like this take place over two turns. Sometimes one sees it for a single day as if the TF has to 'think' for a day and then go in. Beyond that...

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Post #: 816

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 4:52:25 AM

Chickenboy

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I'd start by taking them off of 'full' speed, John. Mission speed should be their profile just in case.

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Post #: 817

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 5:01:49 AM

erstad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I'd start by taking them off of 'full' speed, John. Mission speed should be their profile just in case.

I've had problems even with mission speed. Supposedly they should make the final run under night but sometimes the TFs decide to stop in close air range of their target.

I've had problems a number of times but have not firmly made my mind up as to whether I think there's an algorithmic issue or if the engine correct represents the vagaries of war.

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Post #: 818

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 5:20:15 AM

zuluhour

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The big question... are they spotted? If not......Chittagong? Multiple TFs shown.....or vanish, give him the wonder factor......

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 6/7/2013 5:21:03 AM >

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Post #: 819

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 7:43:07 AM

JocMeister

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I have had this happen on occasion and I know my opponent have had it happen many, many times. I�m always very nervous when doing bombardments like that. Something in the routine just seem to go bonkers from time to time.

EDIT: Did you check the fuel on the escorts? If they were lowish the TF might have refueled on route?

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 6/7/2013 7:45:13 AM >

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Post #: 820

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 1:06:53 PM

John 3rd

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Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions. Sent the turn to Dan last night and did the following:

1. Added more CAP to be safer.
2. Reduced to Mission Speed.
3. Made sure the 'do not refuel' is set.

Zulu: They are SO spotted it isn't even funny. Had nearly 125 bombers (2EB--4EB) hit them last turn. Proved pretty good as I damaged a bunch of planes and even shot down 6 of them. Considering none of those ships have upgraded to the better 3.9" AA that is pretty darned good shooting. If they don't go in then I shall withdraw them like what Zulu thinks.

Work a short shift this morning, will run the turn, and then Post results here.

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Post #: 821

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 1:14:18 PM

JohnDillworth

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Don't the Allies have any planes with torpedoes at this stage of the war? BB's pretty much shrug off bomb damage unless a ton of hits are scored. I know you have a few glitches here but I really like what you are doing. Keep sending those BB's until he gives you a reason not to.

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Post #: 822

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 2:02:36 PM

zuluhour

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Unless he saved some from Sumatra-Malaya, the few he has are on Hermes, and not many.

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Post #: 823

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 2:20:12 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Unless he saved some from Sumatra-Malaya, the few he has are on Hermes, and not many.

I'm not sure that is completely true, Albacore-wise.

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Post #: 824

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 5:07:36 PM

janh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
Don't the Allies have any planes with torpedoes at this stage of the war? BB's pretty much shrug off bomb damage unless a ton of hits are scored. I know you have a few glitches here but I really like what you are doing. Keep sending those BB's until he gives you a reason not to.

There are also other "British" frames besides the Albacores that carry torpedoes, like the Beaufort that ought to be in service for 2 months by now. But all these British airframes are very "brittle", just like all their level bombers at this point. Not to mention the desolate replacement rates. With Zeros and Tojos around, I am convinced Dan can only sustain this extended air war between II/42-III/43 in Burma with the support of the US air.

If there'd be some TBF or SBD squadrons between Calcutta and Akyab, things could be hairy. But there apparently are none, and the Brits are no match for Zeros. That's why I suggested earlier John should at least keep MiniKB here and should have attempted to gain naval control over the bay, i.e. the routes to Akyab. If nothing came from it, it would at least have allowed to some TFs as baits to CAP trap the British bombers... Like the BBs, I've also found them to be excellent baits that can wear down the 4EB and 2EB slowly but steadily, and they are hardly hit or even less likely to be damaged significantly. Unfortunately, rarely but occasionally a stray pilot goes for the escorting destroyers... Yet still, I think this would be worth it. The only requirement is knowledge of the US and British CV, or corresponding support measures...

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Post #: 825

RE: Bombardment Garbage - 6/7/2013 8:11:41 PM

zuluhour

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Moose and Janh are correct. What would you expect from TWIT? I was not paying attention to the timeline, being in late March myself. My humble appologies to the Emporer. Kudos for the save fellows!

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Post #: 826

Night of the Long Lances: NOT! - 6/7/2013 11:43:03 PM

John 3rd

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Ran the turn with Dan a couple of hours ago and am mad enough to spit nails. The next time I take on the Allied Fleet I think I shall bring stone knives and bear skins to the battle.. They shall be just as effective.

Will detail the 'fight' when I am not going to have every other word censored by the Moderators...

Sorry for not providing details but I am truly stunned and furious over the turn. Wouldn't mind walking away for a few days.

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Post #: 827

RE: Night of the Long Lances: NOT! - 6/8/2013 12:30:02 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Wouldn't mind walking away for a few days.

Well, based upon your opponent's statements, he'll be away from his computer (and the game) for a week. Good time to take stock of the situation and think things out, IMO.

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Post #: 828

RE: Night of the Long Lances: NOT! - 6/9/2013 1:01:20 AM

zuluhour

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Regroup!!

I should have guessed Dan has half the US Army and Navy in Asia. Have a few drinks at the O club. It's not over til the fat lady sings.

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Post #: 829

RE: Night of the Long Lances: NOT! - 6/9/2013 2:34:16 PM

John 3rd

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Thanks Guys.

Am feeling a wee bit better. Am headed to church and then will run the last turn sent by Dan (where I expect to be even more depressed) and will then Post the results, search for the meaning of life, lean on you guys, and try to figure out which of the God's of War I have offended.

Appreciate the Thoughts and patience from the Forum.

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Post #: 830

RE: Night of the Long Lances: NOT! - 6/9/2013 4:27:16 PM

zuluhour

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The not unanticipated SH&T storm naturally flew in the opposing AAR, much was laid bare. I would not despair nor dwell on it much as alot has been revealed. It's obvious the Allies have spent much time and effort, not to mention logistics and political points in southeast asia. Large land formations as well as USN assets in a theater you only need to spar.

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Post #: 831

These are the voyages... - 6/10/2013 11:01:02 PM

John 3rd

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OK.

Before I get into the meat of the fighting over the last two days I want to say thank you for the several PMs and Emails I have gotten from players concerned about 'the tone' of my opponent's AAR. Let be clear with readers of both that nothing untoward was said and no OPSEC was broken. I simply got 3 notes of support and concern. I would prefer to NOT see this because it only added to the sense of shock and near depression I had over the course of the recent battle. We need to be careful with comments in our AARs and I expect everyone KNOWS the level of great esteem I hold for Dan and the fantastic level of improvement within his play skills. There are several members of this fine group that I don't apply that complement for and everyone is pretty much in the know with that so nothing more shall be said on the topic.

As stated before Dan was there for advice and support during a horrific time in my life five years ago and I shall never forget that. 'Nough said.

Let us return tot he fight. Personal morale is climbing and it is time to jump on and describe the debacle that occurred October 29-30, 1942.

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/10/2013 11:02:47 PM >

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Post #: 832

The luck of the dice... - 6/10/2013 11:43:34 PM

John 3rd

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October 29, 1942
The Seas Around Akyab

This turn SUCKED from beginning to end. We shall cover it clearly and then talk about lessons/observations:

REMINDER: TF Rr-Adm Kono (a GOOD Adm) commanding BBs Hyuga and Yamashiro, CL Natori, and 8 DDs that is then followed by Rr-Adm Tanaka on board BBs Nagato and Mautsu, CA Furutaka, and 8 DDs.

As the BBs close in it is STORMY night.

Surface Action:
The first TF is met a hex away from Akyab by 4 PTs. These pests do no damage and one is sunk for trying to get close.

Hyuga and Yamashiro then find game. A TF of 2 CA (Canberra and Cornwall), 2 CL (Dauntless and an American), 2 CLAA American, and 4 DDs. I think this is RED MEAT for my BBs but am then stunned when Adm Kono is surprised and the combat opens at 2,000 Yds. HOLY CATS! CL Dauntless slams a pair of TTs into Huyga and then adds another to Yamashiro. CRAP. Dauntless pays for this temerity by being smothered under heavy shells and sinks. CA Cornwall also takes 4 heavy Shells and is heavily damaged.

This is the first fight of the night and it sets the tone for the remainder of the turn's surface combat.

This BB TF is not heard from again as it attempts to pull out of the fight.

In comes Tanaka and the 16" BBs! They get spanked by a TF of CA Quincy, CL Adelaide, and 6 DDs. Fighting begins at spitball range and completely degenerates from that moment. Try to imagine the 2nd Naval Battle of Guadalcanal repeated roughly 5 times in one night. Frightfully close ranges, easy Torpedo shots with BBs crushing a cruiser each battle. The Quincy--Adelaide TF puts 24 Shells and 2 TTs into Mutsu at the cost of DDs Vendetta and Hotspur.

Later fights see all sorts of exchanges where CLs Adelaide and Hobart are sunk, BB Resolution takes 2 16" Shells and a Torp, and several Allied DDs seriously hit. The Japanese lose CL Natori and 4 DDs.

Total Losses during the night:
Japan: CL Natori and 4 DDs with BBs Mutsu, Yamashiro, and Hyuga each having taken 2 TTs.
Allies: SUNK: CA Canberra (possible), CL's Dauntless, Adelaide, and Hobart, and DD's Vendetta and Hotspur. Damage inflicted on BB Resolution, several cruisers, and 3-5 DDs.

If the fight STOPPED HERE life would have been disappointing but OK.

Morning Air Action
I knew that there would be cripples from any fight no matter what the outcome would be so I thought I took reasonable precautions. Over each BB TF I placed roughly 30-35 Zeros and added two Sentai of Tojo (40-45 planes) on LRCAP. The 6 CVEs were SW of Akyab 9 hexes. This was a mistake on my part they were supposed to be TEN hexes away. Will get to that later.

Sweep and bomb Ramree to keep that base's heads down and those attacks meet reasonable success.

Allied bombers swarm in and the 4EB, 2EB all score NOTHING for their efforts. Several of the big bombers are shot down but it is the arrival of 18 Avengers that tip the battle from defeat to absolute disaster. NO CAP flies over the damaged Yamashiro and Hyuga. The Avegers blast 2 TT into both BBs and Hyuga goes down. Several bombing attacks later Yamashiro rolls over despite not being hit.

My STUPID Kates decide that a max range series of launches with no Zeros for escort and nearly 150 enemy fighters flying over Akyab is a GOOD idea. They go in and die. Hmmm....

Afternoon Air Action
A B-25 scores a bomb hit on Fururtaka and the Avenger Squadron demonstrates its skill by sinking 3 DDs.

Sun Sets: THANK GAWD.

Total Japanese Losses: BBs Yamashiro and Hyuga, CL Natori, and 8 DDs. This ends up being almost exactly 50% of the force committed.

What a nightmare!

BB Mutsu is crippled at SYS 23, FLOT 58, and ENG 30. She crawls towards Port Blair at 12 knots (cruise speed) and 4 DDs for escort.

Observations--Lessons Learned:
1. These were all old ships and I SHOULD have had at least a single Radar-Equipped vessel with each TF. I have sent all my new vessels to the KB. HUGE MISTAKE!
2. My over confidence at Japanese Night-Fighting was a terrible mistake. KNEW there would be lots of DDs and Allied CAs/CLs with TTs present and foolishly thought 8 DDs were enough escort to deal with that.
3. The fact that the AI wouldn't allow the TFs to go in for two turns should have been a profound warning to me that I missed.
4. Storms and Moonlight are not the Japanese's friends in a scenario like this. SEE Point #2.

Dan knew what was coming and did not shrink from it. He welcomed it and hazarded his ships for the fight. Well Done Mr. ROPER! Very tough and excellent intestinal fortitude to hazard the fight.

ORDERS:
1. Survivors to Port Blair.
2. CVEs to Singapore to repair and replenish. They shall then head for Koepang with any other escorts available (and RADAR Ships) and await Dan's real offensive move that is coming quite soon.

Comments?

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/10/2013 11:45:46 PM >

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RE: The luck of the dice... - 6/10/2013 11:54:13 PM

Schlemiel

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Yeah, BBs at that range makes me shiver (for either side). I've not had too many bb on bb engagements at night in 1942, but the Brits seem about equal to the Japanese in the few I have seen. Those knife fights with dds though :(.

All in all, that's a very disappointing day for you, but Dan still has a lot of ground to cover, and his increase in skill since you last played him has made him more aggressive in his timing (at least so far). You will, undoubtedly, get some nice chances as time goes on. At very least, playing Dan as an opponent has been giving you some hard won lessons to take into your next game. Hopefully you can return him the favor :)

At least SOBS (sudden old battleship sinkings) aren't as bad as SCLS :)

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Post #: 834

The luck of the dice... - 6/11/2013 12:02:09 AM

John 3rd

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October 30, 1942
Bay of Bengal

It took two full days for me to run the next turn. In truth, I was sooooo stunned over the previous result I absolutely dreaded seeing it. This impact my other games as I did nothing for those days whatsoever. First time a defeat has hit me so hard in the game. Don't really know why but the it truly did. Think some of my apprehension had to do with knowing this is such a high-profile match between Dan and I and that there are lots of readers on both sides. The additional comments mentioned two Posts above didn't help either.

We've tried to shrug it off now. Just got a turn done for Lew and am getting ready to send Viperpol's after this entry.

As I imagined he would, Dan lunges out from Akyab hoping to bag more cripples from the previous day. CA Quincy and 4 US DDs sink a DD but don't catch-up to BB Mutsu. Get a little lucky here.

The morning features bad weather and no strikes are flown by the Allies while hex 57,46 is nailed by 173 Japanese Sally and Helen plastering the Aussie 6th and 7th IDs as well as the 254th TK Reg and 23rd Brit Brigade.

Afternoon sees that DREADED Avenger Squadron attempt to finish off Mutsu. Unlike the previous day, LR CAP is here and the ENTIRE 18 plane SQUADRON is destroyed by 35 Fighters. It ain't much but NICE! Mutsu is not touched.

Two Burma Land Attacks occur:
1. 57,46 sees the Japanese make one attempt at hitting the Allied troops there. It was a good bomber turn hitting Allied units so I had a bit of hope. Doesn't happen. The attack scores 1-2 (609--1276) with the Japanese losing 2,796 Cas, 25 Guns, and 43 Vehicles. Allie casualties are 796 Cas, 27 Guns, and 10 Vehicles.

Well...it had to be attempted at least. Begin pulling back to the east side of the Irrawaddy.

2. 55,47 sees the 2nd Shock Attack in a row and my 21st ID hangs on by a thread. The assault scores a 1-1 (376--331) with 824 Jap Cas and 33 uns for 515 Allied Cas and 18 Guns. If the 21st can hang on for two more days then a fresh ID shall take its place and hold the line.

Developments:
1. Have two TF unloading delivering 2 large Garrison Units, and 9 Engineer units.
2. Have got one more TF coming with 4 Base Forces and 4 more Engineer units.

They will all move to the appropriate locations to help dig-in.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 835

RE: The luck of the dice... - 6/11/2013 12:03:22 AM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schlemiel

Yeah, BBs at that range makes me shiver (for either side). I've not had too many bb on bb engagements at night in 1942, but the Brits seem about equal to the Japanese in the few I have seen. Those knife fights with dds though :(.

All in all, that's a very disappointing day for you, but Dan still has a lot of ground to cover, and his increase in skill since you last played him has made him more aggressive in his timing (at least so far). You will, undoubtedly, get some nice chances as time goes on. At very least, playing Dan as an opponent has been giving you some hard won lessons to take into your next game. Hopefully you can return him the favor :)

At least SOBS (sudden old battleship sinkings) aren't as bad as SCLS :)

THANKS! Made me laugh. Don't want to suffer from SCLS anytime SOON!

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Post #: 836

Notes - 6/11/2013 12:09:19 AM

John 3rd

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Notes from the two days:

1. Dan has a sizeable American naval presence here. If my count is accurate there are at least 2-3 CA, 4-6 CL/CLAA, and anywhere from 12-18 modern US DDs. Better here then elsewhere I suppose.
2. The same can be said for American Ground Units. Just look above and then add the 41st ID as well as other units seen recently.
3. If I can hold 55,47 with the new ID arriving then it should slow down his assault flowing down the western side of Burma. New reinforcements shall help with this. Have nearly enough PP to buy out another full-strength Manchurian ID and the APs are already gathered to pick it up and move it here.

This Japanese Player is going to total EMCON and the all I will say is that the KB is shifting location. Not that I think anyone would spill the beans but I think it is time to button up on the Fleet's movements for a little while.

OK. Need to do Viperpol's turn...

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Post #: 837

RE: Notes - 6/11/2013 12:30:59 AM

viberpol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
OK. Need to do Viperpol's turn...

Yes. You do need to do my turn.
Take a look at the bright side.
You have 3 PBEMs going. Losses (even a defeat) here is not the end of the world.

You can always compensate a lost battle in one PBEM with a victory in the other...

Well, I know the sour taste of defeat, getting punches and being at the receiving end of the "night unpredictability magic stick".

I posted my latest combat report in CR's thread, so I'll repost it here.
It's 2000 combat, just as yours...

I still believe I must been doing something wrong...
But for those of JFB who believe in the Japanese night engagement supremacy,
the truth is that the surface action in 4'45 looks more or less like this:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Ningpo at 92,56, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Natsuzuki, Shell hits 28, and is sunk
DD Akishimo, Shell hits 1
DD Wakaba, Shell hits 24, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Maki, Shell hits 29, and is sunk
DD Kashi, Shell hits 24, and is sunk
DD Kaede, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Sakura, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Minekaze, Shell hits 3, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Taussig, Shell hits 1
DD Bearss, Shell hits 1
DD Conway, Shell hits 9, on fire
DD Haggard, Shell hits 5
DD Norman Scott, Shell hits 12

Poor visibility due to Thunderstorms with 3% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Thunderstorms and 3% moonlight: 2,000 yards

It's like Japanese ships and their captains lost their ability to fight at night...
and forgot how to use the long lances. Quite depressing I must say...

Well... sh** happens. [Shrug] Show must go on!

_____________________________

Przy lackim orle, przy koniu Kiejstuta Archanioł Rusi na proporcach błysł

(in reply to John 3rd)

Post #: 838

RE: Notes - 6/11/2013 12:48:51 AM

John 3rd

Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline

THAT depresses me even more. THANKS Sir!

Turn sent by the way...

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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to viberpol)

Post #: 839

RE: Notes - 6/11/2013 2:19:06 AM

John 3rd

Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline

Beyond getting commentary, I want to spend the rest of the week Posting on economic and research thoughts/questions. For those who don't know, Dan is off for a week with his family on vacation. Hope they have a GREAT time!

_____________________________

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to John 3rd)

Post #: 840

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RE: So it begins...