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Sibolga - 6/27/2013 2:54:01 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		This is what he has at Sibolga. Begin flying in elements of the 4th to try and hold it longer. Once those Inf Reg regain their strength he will be able to take the base but I need time to get troops into Tand???.






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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/27/2013 3:16:02 PM >

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Post #: 1051
Prepping - 6/27/2013 2:56:29 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Order the 2nd, 14th, 4th, and 48th to begin prepping for the first two islands on the west coast moving up from Enggano as well as Phuket and Langkari. Figure this might be a surprise and it would serve to clear the flanks for the main objectives in Sumatra.


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Post #: 1052
Nov 15th Sumatra - 6/27/2013 3:05:54 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Here is the current position of things in northern Sumatra:





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Post #: 1053
Nov 15th Sumatra - 6/27/2013 3:14:41 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Southern Sumatra

Order air strikes to fly from Benkoelen and Oosthaven to hit anything from Sibolga SOUTH.

Reinforcements appear to have made Benkoelen 'safe' for the moment. Am going to bring some help along with supplies up to Padang. He is focused up in NE Sumatra and near Victoria Point so we'll try to take advantage of that.

The Air Division at Oosthaven will move north by 4 AP to Benkoelen. BRING THOSE Torps CLOSER Baby!

Just off the screenshot is BB Fuso, a CL, and 7 DD. They will take shot at the shipping off Sibolga. A detachment of 4 DDs will hit the island just west of Sibolga.

He sends 3 DDs into Singapore again and they are suprised when they encounter BIG BOYS Nagato and Hyuga! Sink one DD and, perhaps, another. I think Singapore is now clear for reinforcements to come in! Order AMC and two pairs of CM to mine Pt Hedderland and Bengkalis. This will keep the incursions down...





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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/27/2013 3:16:24 PM >

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Post #: 1054
RE: Nov 15th Sumatra - 6/27/2013 5:27:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Status: offline 		Singapore is not mined?

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Post #: 1055
RE: Nov 15th Sumatra - 6/27/2013 5:31:02 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Status: offline 		Padang is the threat to Pbang. Three marching routes on decent roads. Offshore air support from a base he already holds (Siberoet.) Easy 90-degree supply inbound route from deep water hard to air search all the way to the off-map edge.

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Post #: 1056
RE: Armistice Day 1942 - 6/27/2013 6:24:13 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

Not piling on you, but all this talk about "must react", poke here, build there, fiddle, fiddle.


Moose, I don't think you are getting my point. The small amount of effort to get Nicobar up and running would (nor should it) not take away from the main effort to eject CR from Sumatra, but the (potential) airbases strategic location to see and strike behind Sabang is something CR will not ignore. It lays closer to his supply line and closes some of the the blind spots between Sumatra and Ceylon. Anything that narrows the Allied maneuver area for the KB is a good thing. I agree that the decision will be made on the ground here but the KB will play a part in the decision.

This battle is going to take a long time and anything that increases the LBA envelope will prove to be beneficial. If CR wins at Sumatra then Nicobar is a side show, if John wins then it will prove to be a huge asset while the contest hangs in the balance.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a worthy discussion because it bears on overall attitude by any Japanese player who finds himself with a bolt-from-the-blue existential threat attack like this.

"The small amount of effort . . . would not take away from the main effort . . ."

This statement is factually incorrect. I understand you imply "not much", but the point is it WOULD take away from the main effort. It's the sort of frittering away force allocation which Japan simply can't afford. The decision horizon for Japan in Sumatra/Malaysia today is no more than 60 days, and most of it is 14 or so. Setting up a small, island AF to the north of the threat is chrome. It has to be taken, secured, engineers allocated, and most significantly has to have 20k+ supply to be functional as an AF. Is all of that better used on Sumatra? Of course.

And if built does it have a lot of functionality? Not really. I does straddle the routes from Madras, Colombo, and Calcutta if the Allies straight-shot supply TFs. But why would they do that? They have literally infinite fuel at Abadan, and it can't be touched. They have hundreds, soon thousands, of xAKs which can reach the theater off-map and safe. And they can supply western Sumatra directly from CT by many, many routes that come nowhere near Nicobar.

Japan here must cordon Sumatra from re-supply. But air won't do it. The IJN has to patrol deep into the IO in many zones, carefully building surface TFs by type, speed, and endurance, layering defense and detection zones all the way to the map edge. Only in the terminal zone is LBA a factor. The heavy lifting has to be done by DDs and CLs building a steel wall against XAKs which the Allies can afford to use as one-shot supply haulers. (The Liberty ships were built and budgeted to do exactly that in the ETO. One load to GB or the USSR and they had done their design duty. Anything more was gravy.)

On land, Japan has to focus on the oil bases. Any supply and engineers have to support that primary focus. Building island AFs is a nice-to-do right now.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/27/2013 6:28:00 PM >

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Post #: 1057
RE: ...down to Singapore - 6/27/2013 6:28:03 PM   
viberpol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Second shot looking down from Langsha to Singapore. Look at all the TF landing on the OUTER Islands. Those are total undeveloped. I understand taking them but don't see the value when everything else is, more or less, ripe for the picking...





Speaking from my perspective and a PBEM which I lost against Crsutton landing exactly the same place at Sabang (but in '44)
I think that those small islands (which now appear not important) are more important than the main land bases NW of Sumatra.
I think CR thinks he might lose the land bases sooner or later. That's why he took the islands.

The Allies, after a month or so, if fortified on an WR island will be very very hard to get rid off without the landing bonus of the first five months for Japan.
My opinion is you should asap take the islands back.

On the other hand, Sumatra is open for a prolonged land campaign which is not necessarily a bad option. For God's sake, its November '42. Japan has some good LCUs! I'd rather have a major land campaign on Sumatra in '42 (certain that the oil fields are secure, because are not to be bombed) than have it on a wide front in Burma where you can achieve nothing, and where the Allies are unlimited in supplies. This game is all about supplies! You're closer to your main supply centers. He has to transport supplies a long dangerous way. You've got a HR that prohibits bombing the oil fields for some time, right? You still have naval superiority. Great Akizuki-class destroyers that enter the war early and with radars. Damn, it's a naval mod isn't it?

Today (and I mean in a short term) Sibolga, even Padang are not that important IMHO.
You can easily neutralise them by bombing day and/or night (naval bombardments) from your major bases not so far away. But when supported by a chain of island based bases.. well this is a different case...
You've got a little bit more time to bring you farther placed divisions there to reinforce Sumatra's mainland.
Fortify at the crucial (picking good defensive terrain) hexes (say NE of Sibolga with river crossing etc.) and let him come closer burning supplies (yes, moving troops burn supplies; they burn whole piles of supplies!). Appear weak...

Then counter-attack with all forces available.

< Message edited by viberpol -- 6/27/2013 7:26:24 PM >

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Post #: 1058
RE: ...down to Singapore - 6/28/2013 1:38:14 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Thanks Viperpol.

It 'appears' that Langsha and Medan are safe for the moment. Key word is moment.

Want to hold Sibolga as long as possible. Those two Naval Guard will not last long. The Sz-4 Forts are key. If I can make sure there is not real threat to Alor Star then I shall mass my IJA bombers and hit the LCU at Sibolga. The Fuso TF will attempt to wreak some shipping and cause issues that way. If he brings ANY of those eight BBs identified so far then life will be dicey for the BB TF.

Ordered 4 CM and 3 AM to mine to twin bases above Singapore. Once those MF are in place (about 80 mines each--not much but something) I shall commence serious mining of Singers.

As mentioned above, I agree with the threat of the islands on the west side of Sumatra as well as Phuket and Langkari. My ID will take them back FIRST and then roll into Sumatra. This is the TENTATIVE plan.

Worked a nice short 10 hour day. Going out to eat cheap Chinese food and will tackle turn at that point. Mentioned last page is a short family trip up in the mountains Fri--Sat--Sun. I'll have the laptop but am not allowed to have AE on it. Will Post during those days but no turns.


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Post #: 1059
Target Rich... - 6/29/2013 9:34:43 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		With the exception of a single small development we shall call November 17, 1942 a GOOD turn and the beginning of Japan getting its feet underneath it. Things are still scary but troops are getting closer to where they desperately need to be AND airpower/SS strikes are beginning to really be felt with the enemy. Cocos is going to be a PAIN!






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Post #: 1060
WHERE to Strike??? - 6/29/2013 9:38:58 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		So many targets to chose from...





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Post #: 1061
Finally HERE! - 6/29/2013 9:46:05 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		To the south, the Japanese Navy FINALLY begins to deploy and start a careful interdiction of Allied shipping.

1. The 6 CVE divide into two groups and move towards the edge of the map. This will be a short deployment of 5-6 days while KB refuels and rests a day or two at Soerabaja. The Kido Butai will arrive at Soerabaja in two days.

2. BB Fuso and her escorts will make their presence known at Sibolga tomorrow.

3. Several small DD TF move to hit shipping at sea as well on those eastern islands...

4. CMs work as fast as I can pick-up Mines.

5. LCU Developments: An Air Division unloads at Benkoelen today and tomorrow giving enough of a TT threat to seal-up that side of Sumatra. Three BF unload at Singapore to move by RR north. A Garrison unit arrives at Singers as well. It immediately begins to load on RR to go north as well.






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Post #: 1062
RE: Finally HERE! - 6/29/2013 10:43:31 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Status: offline 		Yes, it appears CR's "Rumpspringa" is coming to an end. The free buffet has closed. I think you did well to put your aircraft on a leash until you could bring some numbers in. Aircraft first, IJN second and troops to follow. A vexing problem you have here but but for now your navy is better and you have more planes. Troops......this is where the Allies will get better and better. It's not just numbers, the 43 upgrades will make his AV better than your AV. Keep em flying!

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Post #: 1063
RE: Finally HERE! - 6/29/2013 10:47:06 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Yes, however, to get those 43 troop upgrades he'll need supplies and command HQ right? I know SW Pacific is present at Sumatra. Does that qualify?


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Post #: 1064
RE: Finally HERE! - 6/29/2013 10:55:05 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Yes, however, to get those 43 troop upgrades he'll need supplies and command HQ right? I know SW Pacific is present at Sumatra. Does that qualify?


Supplies, yes. Command HQ, no. You must be thinking of TOE upgrades. Device upgrades (such as squads) do not require any sort of HQ presence.

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Post #: 1065
RE: Sibolga - 6/29/2013 10:56:31 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		Cool fight.

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Post #: 1066
RE: Finally HERE! - 6/29/2013 11:11:37 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Yes, however, to get those 43 troop upgrades he'll need supplies and command HQ right? I know SW Pacific is present at Sumatra. Does that qualify?


Supplies, yes. Command HQ, no. You must be thinking of TOE upgrades. Device upgrades (such as squads) do not require any sort of HQ presence.


THAT is NOT the answer I wanted!


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Post #: 1067
RE: Sibolga - 6/29/2013 11:12:53 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Cool fight.


Thanks My GOOD Former Opponent!

It is nuts. Need about 4-5 more days to get things approaching some sense of stability. This is a relative term but it shall be far BETTER then what it has been the last 7-10 days.


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Post #: 1068
RE: Finally HERE! - 6/29/2013 11:23:42 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Yes, however, to get those 43 troop upgrades he'll need supplies and command HQ right? I know SW Pacific is present at Sumatra. Does that qualify?


Supplies, yes. Command HQ, no. You must be thinking of TOE upgrades. Device upgrades (such as squads) do not require any sort of HQ presence.



THAT is NOT the answer I wanted!


More a long term comment. You and CR are playing your Reluctant Admiral mod. Problem is only you are playing it. CR has chosen to play the Princess Bride mod (Land War in Asia). Most of the advantages of RA have been nicely sidestepped so far. I think that will change soon, but and land war slugfest do not play into your strengths. But such is the hand you were dealt. Everyone has their eye on the prize and the prize is fuel.

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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Post #: 1069
RE: Finally HERE! - 6/30/2013 12:07:26 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		The PRIZE is TOTAL VICTORY over the evil YANKEE and BRITISH IMPERIALIST swine who seek total subjugation over the poor helpless people of Asia!

"NEVER get involved in a LAND WAR in Asia!"

John: You hit the nail nicely on the head. He is avoiding Japan's strengths in RA and is playing against mine (Land Warfare). Well this is about to change my dear readers.

I want to do a thorough update if possible. Once the boys crash and the wife is sleeping I will slink over to the WiFi source and get a serious update done.


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Post #: 1070
RE: Sibolga - 6/30/2013 1:21:05 AM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		Perhaps you thought of this but the thread header "Finally HERE" might tip your hand.

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Post #: 1071
RE: Sibolga - 6/30/2013 2:06:43 AM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Perhaps you thought of this but the thread header "Finally HERE" might tip your hand.


Shhhhhh...we're not REALLY HERE yet...PSYOPs my friend...


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Post #: 1072
SS Ops 11-10 to 11-17 - 6/30/2013 3:32:29 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		After getting caught with our pants down (what did Adm Kirk say "Mister Saavik--You go right on quoting regulations!") with Dan's Landings, we have scrambled to form some sort of credible defense. The first line of that to score well and repeatedly has been the Japanese Sub Arm. At the time of the Invasion (11-10) there were six boats working the Bay of Bengal and another on the west coast of India. Orders went out almost immediately to congregate around Sabang and/or Ceylon to begin interdiction missions. As a last ditch effort I had enough supply at Sabang to pull out 6 Midget Subs to contest the landings. I know that they don't do much but this is what Japan had at the start of the Allied Offensive.

That the Subs have done well is an understatement. Here are the result from initial landing to today:

11-11
I-30 hits AK Indira with 1 TT at Sabang

11-12
I-11 damages CA New Orleans with 1 TT near Langsa
I-164 SINKS AK Silversides near Sibolga
I-20 SINKS AK Paul Luchenbach (lose 37 Vehicles) at Sabang

11-13
Ha-40 SINKS AR Vestal with 2 TT at Sabang
Ha-41 hits AE Pyro at Sabang
Ha-36 hits AV Wright with a Torp at Sbang
I-11 SINKS AK Barassa at Sibolga
Ro-34 SINKS DD Buchanon with a Torp at Sabang

11-14
Nada

11-15
Nada

11-16
I-20 SINKS AK Steel Exploer with 2 SH Hits and 2 TT off Sinabang
I-29 SINKS AK Red Jacket with 2 TT at Sibolga
Ro-63 SINKS AK Lihue off Langkawi

11-17
Ro-67 SINKS AO Ramapo off Koggala with 3 TT
I-20 SINKS AK Empire Greenfell with 2 TT at Sinabang and then itself SUNK at that location


In a total of seven days of Operations, Japanese SS have sunk a DD, AR, AO, and 7 AK while damaging CA New Orleans, an AKE, AV, and 1 AK. This is not too bad whatsoever.

The Japanese have lost I-20 and have had three more damaged by ASW where they have been recalled to either Singapore or Soerabaja.

Presently there are three SS working around northern Sumatra and three more taking up position to nail that mass of retiring shipping headed for Ceylon.

REINFORCEMENTS
That wall of SS I had at Cooktown is now reforming and headed into the Theatre of Operations. Five I-Boats have already refueled at Soerabaja and are moving up the west coast of Sumatra. Twelve more are on the way.



Not bad for a start. How about those Midgets nailing three ships in ONE DAY??!! Nice!


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/30/2013 3:33:23 PM >

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Post #: 1073
RE: SS Ops 11-10 to 11-17 - 6/30/2013 3:55:56 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
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Status: offline 		every little bit helps. An AR, AKE and AO this far from home has got to hurt

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Post #: 1074
Events 11/10---11/17 - 6/30/2013 4:10:25 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Combat Report
Nov 10-17, 1942

Thought I might cover Dan's shipping losses and then do a detailed Combat Report of the 17th.

11-10
CVE Long Island and Copahee take one bomb each.
AVP and AK SUNK
3 AK Damaged

11-11
5 AK SUNK

11-12
CA New Orleans Damaged
1 APD and 4 AK SUNK
2 DD, 1 AP, and 2 AK Damaged

11-13
DD Buchanon, AR, AO, KV, AP, 5 AK SUNK
DD, AE, AV, and 4 AK Damaged

11-14
1 AK SUNK
DD, 4 AK and 1 AP Damaged

11-15
BB South Dakota hit by 2 bombs from Vals
1 DD and 3 AK SUNK
2 DD and 6 AK Damaged

11-16
1 AP and 5 AK SUNK
1 AP and 3 AK Damaged

11-17
1 AP and 5 AK SUNK
3 AP, 1 TK, and 1 AK Damaged

November 17, 1942
The situation in Northern Sumatra is precarious but not TERRIBLE. Dan has Sabang and all the western islands down to but not including Enggano

Sibolga is under attack and won't hold for much longer. Two Naval Guard have held off 5 Regiments worth of Inf for nearly a week. Give them credit for delaying him this long. Theyw ill get support in the form of BB Bomb this turn coming up. Would love to land reinforcements here but doubt if I'll get the chance.

He has landed at Padang but won't get it. I now have reinforcements landed/landing there and will soon attack to drive him out and away.

Western Sumatra
THINK we have stopped the western side of this disaster at this present point. He will get Sibolga and that is it for the moment. Have counterlanding forces headed to Nias, Sinabang, and Batoe. They will get there within a week and take back the islands. Not much is currently on any of these islands as Dan is totally focused on other bases currently. Any landing will land with Prep very low so I expect total disorganization but will cover using LBA to bomb the troops and, as said, there do not appear to be any real combat units present.

Eastern Sumatra
Elements of the Imperial Guards (50 AV) hold Langsa with Fort-3. They will hold for a while. Dan began landing troops there this turn from 3 Invasion TF.

Elements of 4th ID and an Engineer Unit hold Medan (AV--75) behind Sz-2 Forts

Tand??? has four Army HQ units in it and Forts-2. AV is roughly 100 and there is a CD unit present.

PLAN: 10th ID is just two days from Singapore. Will offload it and then reload the ID onto smaller AKL for a quick run-in to Tand???. If I can get that ID there then Eastern Sumatra shall stabilize for the moment. Figure on losing everything north of Tand???

Malaya
Phuket and Langkari have fallen but have 4th ID and another ID getting ready to take them back.

Alor Star continues to hold but just barely. He has elements of 18th ID, 99th Indian Brigade, and 762nd TK Bn. Elements of Imp Guards and a Garrison unit are present. A BF just arrived as well. He nailed Alor Star with a CA and 2 CL, then BBs North Carolina and South Dakota, and finally BB Washington, 2 CA, and 1 CLAA without getting ANYTHING! More troops fly-in by TR and a Thai Brigades should arrive in two days.

BIG NEWS is that he took Singora with a 7-1 assault using Paras. Have two THAI Brigades that should be there ASAP. Missed arriving to PREVENT this exact scenario by one lousy day. Order SWEEPS by two Tojo Sentai to knock down the fighters that shall certainly come next turn to this base. Also order damaged BBs Mutsu and Hyuga to bombard it from the eastern side.


Comment: WHY do this? He should focus all he's got on Sumatra and expand that bridgehead as much as possible before my massed reinforcements arrive. All I see is anything brought here as being sent to die. They are a distraction but not a fatal attack. Maybe he thinks Burma and Pt Blair need supplies or something. They don't. Rangoon and bases up there have nearly 150,000 and Pt Blair has nearly 50,000.

OK. Time to pack and get ready to go home. Will check back in from home in about 5-6 hours.

Thoughts???


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 6/30/2013 4:11:33 PM >

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Post #: 1075
RE: Events 11/10---11/17 - 6/30/2013 4:39:06 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		I think you are back on your feet and have a plan. I don't really see how you can cut off supply though. The KB is big and nasty but you can't loiter that far from home and blockade forever. CR has a history of protecting his carriers so you might be able to split the KB, but that is chancy. CR brought a lot and I suppose he brought a ton of supply too.

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(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1076
RE: Events 11/10---11/17 - 7/1/2013 12:57:30 AM   
Saros

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 12/18/2010
Status: offline 		Seems Sabang is full of his fleet train. Have you tried Betty/Nell night raids on the port? They often carry 800Kg bombs and one of those is enough to sink or put out of action any merchant ship. If you can destroy his support ships he will be forced to go back to Colombo to rearm. Keep it up with the minisubs as well.

Otherwise where are you tank divisions? You should have three by now, all upgraded to type 1 medium tanks and they will be invaluble for any land campaign to retake Sumatra.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 1077
RE: Events 11/10---11/17 - 7/1/2013 1:00:56 AM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Ah, the war resumes.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1078
RE: Events 11/10---11/17 - 7/1/2013 7:22:02 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

Ah, the war resumes.


Back on. Turn sent to Dan.

Did some industrial work and thought I might cover that for a moment:

Airframes
1. JUDY has begun a month early. Converted Vals over to it and will soon have over 100 a month being produced. Got the recon version in September and are producing 24 of those planes. Plan to place them on my heavy CVs for extra air search starting in 1943.

2. Expanded M5 production by about 80 planes taking that toal to close to 200 per month.

3. Expanded Tojo to nearly 400 per month. Tony comes in in January and will build some of them for CAP Defense.

4. Doubled Nick production to about 30.

5. JILL advanced a month forward also and it shall begin in January 43.

I've plateau'd with my HI surplus. Am holding at about 550,000. Are watching to see what this does.

Fuel is a little low but Dan moving the fight to the DEI is GREAT! Don't have to haul any out of the Home Islands and can stockpile. Supply--Resources are rock solid right now. Still have bunches of it at sea prior to the Sumatra situation.

CRIPPLES:
Junyo: SYS 06, FLOT 52, ENG 13--Just about ready to head for repairs. Still would like to make that Soerabaja instead of Home Islands. Got to think on that one.

Mutsu: SYS 29, FLOT 59, ENG 37--Sitting in Port Blair. NOT GOOD! He knows it. Doubt if this ship shall survive without big changes.

NOTEs
1. I liked that Betty--Nell Port Attack option at night. Move a Daitai to Port Blair and order them to try it. Will report when we see any results.
2. Mines laid at Batu Pat a few hexes above Singapore. More to be dropped tomorrow as well as Benkalis on the other side. We're closing this route to the Allies for quick forays against Singers.
3. Three CVL conversions are within a few weeks of being completed. Would love another 100 planes...

We'll get in at least two turns tomorrow.

Everyone got their seatbelts on??!!

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 7/1/2013 7:23:02 AM >

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(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 1079
RE: Events 11/10---11/17 - 7/1/2013 7:59:02 AM   
BigBadWolf


Posts: 584
Joined: 8/8/2007
From: Serbia
Status: offline 		John, can you elaborate on your CV groups composition a bit? Did you go through with CVLs as fighter farms?

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