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RE: D4Y1 - 3/19/2016 5:21:22 PM   
DanSez


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I think I have an older DaBabes game save and the D4Y1 Judy matches stock in the database.
Was there a design decision to add fuel tanks from the D4Y1-C recon model to the bomber version?

/////
Ok, this game is at an interesting point.
I will be looking at the Japanese air units this weekend and will send NYGiants59 any other differences I see.
////


< Message edited by DanSez -- 3/19/2016 5:23:27 PM >

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Post #: 1771
Air Guide - 3/20/2016 12:33:18 AM   
John 3rd


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I went back thorugh and looked in the RA Website. Here is the official air description written by FatR in 2013:

This is FatR's Commentary on Japanese Air Development:

This scenario assumes, that with Yamamoto assuming the position of the Aeronautics
Department's head in 1936 and becoming the Naval Minister later, he intensifies Japanese
naval aviation development a bit, and attempts to optimize the utilization of limited
engineering and production resources. Chief engineers of aircraft design teams are given
slightly greater input in formulating development directions and cooperation between various
aircraft manufacturers is assumed to be somewhat improved.

In particular, the concept of dedicated land­based interceptor (the Jack) is abandoned and the
Mitsubishi fighter design team under Jiro Horikoshi remains free to concentrate all of its efforts
on modifying A6M and creating its successor A7M. Horikoshi's proposal to install the more
powerful Mitsubishi Kinsei engine on Zero is approved in 1942, instead of late 1944, and A7M
is developed to use Mitsubishi Ha­43 engine, as he desired, from the beginning. A6M3 is
developed into a whole line of Zeros that sacrifice range in favor of superior armament and
pilot protection, and eventually are officially designated as pure land­based models. IJN
maintains the policy of sticking to just one single­engine fighter airframe, until Kawasaki team
develops N1K1­J Shiden as a private initiative (this happens slighltly earlier than in RL,
because alternate projects of land­based interceptors, that tied Kawanishi resourses, do not
exist). It is adopted as a stopgap measure until availability of A7M.
As a side effect of greater effort put into development and production of Mitsubishi Kinsei (Ha­
33) and Mitsubishi Ha­43 engines, several planes that historically used these engines are
added to the mod (if they existed only as prototypes by the war's end), or accelerated.

Aircraft weapon development is streamlined, with a push for unification with IJAAF in this area
(historically, IJN and IJA did cooperate in aircraft weapon production, in this scenario their
cooperation becomes much broader). Instead of attempts to produce licensed German
machine guns, that ultimately failed to provide the fleet with sufficient numbers of them, IJN
switches to the more powerful Army 7.7 cartridge and eventually adopts 12.7 Ho­103, the first
aircraft HMG developed in Japan. This allows for improved armament on some planes, mostly
2E bombers.

This scenario also assumes mild overall boost to Japanese aircraft industry (at the cost of
reduction in starting resources). As a result, several planes that historically faced severe
problems with transition from prototypes to mass production, such as B6N, D4Y and G4M2,
become available a bit earlier. G8N1, the Japanese 4E bomber that was successfully tested but
not mass­produced in real life, becomes available in 1945.

In addition, there are many minor tweaks to various aircraft, intended to make their statblocks
and performance closer to historical. The changes that can affect gameplay most noticeably
include:
­
Early Japanese fighters (Ha­35 Zeros and Ki­43) have their high­altitude MVR reduced.
­G4M has slightly better durability, G3M slightly worse, to give G4M an edge over the older
plane it historically had.
­E16A1 Paul no longer has artificially reduced normal range.
­Ki­44 uses Nakakima Ha­34 engine, instead of Ha­35, for historical accuracy.
­Late Ki­61 versions are slightly improved. Ki­100s are significantly improved. In RL they were
supposed to be good, particularly Ki­100, but in AE they are very underwhelming.
­Ki­67­Ib does not lose the ability to carry torpedoes.
­Old Russian fighters no longer have unparalleled MVR. Their clear superiority to Nate has to
go.

Following aircraft were added to this scenario (all but new Zeros and G3M4­Q existed in RL as
prototypes or even production models):
­A6M3b Zero. Replaces A6M3a and emphasized armor and weapons instead of range.
­A6M4, A6M4­J, A6M8­J. Successors to A6M3b that follow the same design philosopshy but
use Mitshubishi Ha­33 engine and serve as IJN Ground­Based Interceptors.
­A7M3. The historical successor to A7M2. Carrier­capable and features 6x20mm armament.
A7M2 factory upgrades to it, instead of A7M3­J.
­B7A3. The historical armored successor to B7M2. Uses Mitsubishi Ha­43 engine.
­D4Y5. Mitshubishi Ha­43, armor. D4Y3 upgrades to it. (D4Y4 was a kamikaze plane in RL.)
­G3M4­Q. ASW patrol version of Nell.
­G8N1. Fast, tough, long­ranged 4E bomber.
­J6M1. IJN version of Ki­83.
­N1K4­A. Carrier­capable Shiden.
­N1K5­J. High­altitude interceptor Shiden. Uses Mitsubishi Ha­43 engine.
­Yasukuni. IJN version of Ki­67. "Yasukuni" might actually be the name of the naval unit, that
employed these bombers in RL, but I can't find any other designation for them.

SPECIAL THANKS to the Air Design Team of RA: FatR, BKlooste, NYGiants59, and
JWE/Symon. Air Artwork Thanks go to Red Lancer.

Another important note is that these changes are split about 90% for the IJN and 10% for the
IJA. The Army's OOB doesn't hardly change whatsoever.

Other Air Notes:
All forward IJN air units start with modern aircraft and are at full strength
A Training and Cadre Program is instituted in 1940 by Yamamoto which causes nearly all
IJNAF units to see a net reduction of 10­15 points in experience on December 7th. The benefit
to this change is later IJN pilots start with higher experience in 1942 and 1943.
The air complement to the ground units of the 9th Air Fleet also starts at cadre strength with
minimal experience and older aircraft (Claudes, Nells, Mavis) in Kyushu on Dec 7th. When fully
trained and filled out this powerful unit provides 3 Daitai of Fighters, 2 Daitai of Level
Bombers, 1 Daitai of Dive­Bombers, 1 Daitai of Torpedo Bombers, 3 Chutai of Short­Range Air
Search and 3 Chutai of Long­Range Air Search.

The need for improved Carrier Air Search is recognized at the start of the war and a later sees
the addition of five Chutai­-Sized Judy units.

Several Air Units start in different locations for the beginning of the war.

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Post #: 1772
RE: Air Guide - 3/20/2016 12:34:16 AM   
John 3rd


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The stupid Forum Page re-ordered everything above and so I went through as best I could to fix the paragraphs...


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Post #: 1773
Scanning - 3/20/2016 3:02:12 PM   
John 3rd


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May 29,1943
The Aleutians


A whole host of shipping suddenly appears up north near the Aleutians. Looks like we've got a show going on in the WHITE NORTH. This move by Dan is sort of a head scratcher to me.

I was convinced back in the summer of 42 that Dan would come up here and repeat his earlier moves from our epic WITP Game from years ago. The bases here were reinforced, engineers began digging, midget subs, and mines were sown/sent. Nothing happened. Those forces have remained ever since then. The western Aleutians are small fortresses presently. Am a little short on supply but nothing too bad.

Don't--currently--have a lot of airpower up here but that will change within two days. Right now I have just a Daitai of Betty, Daitai of Vals, and two Daitai of Zeros. Lots of recon/air search in place.

Put orders to the following air movement: 100 M4 Zeros, 125 Betty/Nell, and about 100 other aircraft.

Why here?

Makes sense that it is at the opposite end of the map from Sumatra but that is about it. Don't get this move. Dan usually goes for the economic throat. Doesn't--for the moment--appear to be.

What he doesn't know is that Kido Butai is already positioned to strike his southern flank. KB just passed Marcus and is NOW heading NE.

If Dan doesn't move decisively with this Invasion Force (say 2-3 days) then I will crush it at sea.

Tune in kiddos. This is about to get bloody...





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/20/2016 3:03:28 PM >


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RE: Scanning - 3/20/2016 3:18:19 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Makes sense that it is at the opposite end of the map from Sumatra but that is about it.





Allies love doing this. Sometimes you feel like a ping pong ball.

It is interesting to see a scattered Allied fleet. When the Allies have done this to me, it was concentrated in one hex and my search planes died in droves.

Did you lose any search planes?

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Post #: 1775
RE: Scanning - 3/20/2016 3:20:58 PM   
pws1225

 

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This should be fun to watch! Go get him!

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RE: Scanning - 3/20/2016 3:32:01 PM   
John 3rd


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Don't see any CVs yet but that doesn't mean much. Their lack of appearance COULD portend very bad things elsewhere but here is a legitimate target that--I am nearly certain--he has no idea how CLOSE MY CVs are...


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Post #: 1777
RE: Scanning - 3/20/2016 3:33:38 PM   
John 3rd


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From Conan: "What is BEST in Life?"



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Post #: 1778
RE: D4Y1 - 3/20/2016 3:40:15 PM   
Lowpe


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John,

Can you give us a picture or two on how you have your carriers organized and the settings you plan to use?

Many thanks.

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Marvelous! - 3/20/2016 9:52:48 PM   
John 3rd


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I just wrote Dan the following note with the next turn:

"ANZAC troops are invading the Aleutians." The total absurdity of this statement is MARVELOUS. I LOVE IT! Well done.

Ready to have some FUN?


The ANZAC Army is coming to a party in the Aleutians. Landings at at Atka and Ulak plus this landing at Adak. Adak was bombarded by BB Massachusetts, South Dakota, and Washington. Americans CVs are present. A strike that included 60+ Hellkittens sank an AKE.

As said earlier, the western Aleutians are built up and ready. I am flying in 54 Tina and 50+ Topsy to transport troops back and forth along the chain of bases. If you notice the state of the troops that landed at Adak, you can probably guess that they are not well prepped. Should provide for a day or two of time...





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/20/2016 9:53:56 PM >


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RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 12:08:53 AM   
Bif1961


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Looks like the big battle at sea is to be joined, either the Japanese will swat the Allied player on the nose for being so adventerous or he will switch strategic axis from Western DEI to North Pacific take back the operational momentum.

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Post #: 1781
Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 5:25:42 PM   
John 3rd


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May 31, 1943

Looks like we're going to lose everything east of Adak BEFORE the Fleet can arrive. DRAT! Figure the Kido Butai is three days away from action. There shall be a very strong probability that I'll have to deal with LBA as well as the CVs. Will watch closely as things develop.

Have all sorts of movement going on. Need to make sure the three bases centered on Attu are fully stocked and reinforced. There is no direct threat to anything vital with these landings so I trying to NOT over-react. Move three Daiati of Betty/Nell into Attu. Two Daitai of Tina move into Shemya to pick-up elements of the Air Flotilla at Adak. Now have 60+ Zeros at Attu. Not much but better then nothing.

In an boneheaded move reflecting playing three matches AND keeping up an AAR, I forgot to lift the NE Area Fleet HQ from Umnak. It was on my 'to do' list back in March of 43 and I missed it. Losing it will SUCK but I have to be honest about it so there is that.

Have got two ID and a Brigade moving to reinforce the western Aleutians. The Kuriles are in good shape so that is nice. I always keep Forts building there from Day ONE of the war starting. Paramushiro Jima is in excellent shape so it shall serve as the backstop to this.

Still am flumoxxed over WHY Dan is landing here. Nothing vital and Strategic Air doesn't truly become any form of threat for quite a while.

Any thoughts on this?





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/21/2016 5:26:42 PM >


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Post #: 1782
RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 6:01:57 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Any thoughts on this?


Don't hold your breath for a response. Along with the Sheep/Wolf AARs, you have the most active two-sided AAR's running, and it's well-nigh irresistible to read both sides. And that, of course, means that OPSEC must be preserved.

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RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 6:12:38 PM   
Anachro


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Ah yes here are my thoughts on this:

quote:

While certainly he might try to REDACTED, but you need to be aware that he could instead REDACTED. Therefore, you should definitely REDACTED in order to make sure that REDACTED. Good luck!

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Post #: 1784
RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 6:23:21 PM   
BillBrown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Any thoughts on this?


Don't hold your breath for a response. Along with the Sheep/Wolf AARs, you have the most active two-sided AAR's running, and it's well-nigh irresistible to read both sides. And that, of course, means that OPSEC must be preserved.


This, that is why no comment.

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RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 6:24:54 PM   
John 3rd


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You guys just made me laugh!

Thanks for the non-help help...


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RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 6:58:31 PM   
BillBrown


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This is much too much fun to watch both sides and I will not break OPSEC and ruin it for anyone.

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RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 7:23:01 PM   
kjnoel

 

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Are you tracking his LCUs? A number in Sumatra, now more in Norpac. It's 2 fronts for you now but also for the Allies. They don't have that many to throw around this early, although Aussies are cheap to buy they will struggle with replacements if they take losses.

Is it possible you can reduce Sabang with what you have there and isolate the Aleutians? Dangerous if he has plenty of LCUs left free but possibly tempting is he has committed the majority of his divisions across Sabang and the Aleutians. Would force a major CV clash which you may or may not want if he felt pinned.

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Post #: 1788
RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 7:38:40 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kjnoel

Are you tracking his LCUs? A number in Sumatra, now more in Norpac. It's 2 fronts for you now but also for the Allies. They don't have that many to throw around this early, although Aussies are cheap to buy they will struggle with replacements if they take losses.

Is it possible you can reduce Sabang with what you have there and isolate the Aleutians? Dangerous if he has plenty of LCUs left free but possibly tempting is he has committed the majority of his divisions across Sabang and the Aleutians. Would force a major CV clash which you may or may not want if he felt pinned.


Funny you mention that. I have begun to entertain just such a notion.

SABANG is the true place for victory and punishment for Allied ineptitude. There are 150,000 troops left to simply wither and die here. The landings up north, while attention grabbing, pose NO THREAT to the Empire. Sabang does. I have decided to keep Junyo (Hiyo repaired in 45 days) and my 8 CVEs near Sabang. There is lots of air support present and he'll not be able to stage any form of Dunkirk or reinforcing operation without severe losses.

Why not use those troops up north to stage a supporting landing in the DEI? This is what I would have done. Sure he comes from the opposite side of the map but--really--who cares? As long as I hold the western five bases in the Aleutians he can be watched and checked.

The REAL fight is occurring at Sabang. June 1st finds the arrival of four full strength Japanese ID and 4 Engineering Regiments. A fifth ID is on the way. Once it arrives we'll launch a deliberate attack directly after all three BBs and 4 BCs smack the target. We bombard this turn and see this result:





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/21/2016 7:47:15 PM >


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Post #: 1789
RE: Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 7:48:37 PM   
John 3rd


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Units seen up North: 9th Aussie ID and 2nd Marines. LOTS of APs still SE of Adak. I'd bet on several more Aussie ID.


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Post #: 1790
Marvelous! - 3/21/2016 7:50:43 PM   
John 3rd


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Here is a screenshot of the North:





We lose Adak but manage to lift 1,000 members of the 3rd Air Flotilla out before it falls. The units you see listed and based here are the entire 9th Air Fleet.

Tinas and Topsys shift over to Umnak for NE Fleet and the Air Floitlla.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/21/2016 7:53:51 PM >


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Post #: 1791
The Flat Land - 3/21/2016 8:26:39 PM   
John 3rd


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June 1, 1943

I've vented before but it truly IRRITATES me how Dan uses MERCHANT ships as pickets and to sniff out positions. Today I-16 sinks an AKL with guns NW of Midway and the KB comes close to revealing itself near another. If they were DDs then I would have no issue. Be just like Okinawa...

Was asked about the KB Organization:

KB-1 Vc-Adm Yamaguchi
CV Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu
CVL Chitose, Chiyoda
3 CA, 2 CL, 9 DD AA Value: 6524

KB-2 Vc-Adm Nagumo
CV Shokaku, Zuikaku, Ryukaku, Taikaku, Renkaku
CB Kawachi
2 CA, 3 CL, 9 DD AA Value: 9093

KB-3 Rr-Adm Okano
CVL Shoho, Ryujo, Ryuho, Nisshin, Mizuho
2 CA, 3 CL, 10 DD AA Value: 6379

Total Aircraft is about 850.

The Kido Butai is on total EMCON. NOTHING is flying.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/21/2016 8:28:29 PM >


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Post #: 1792
Kido Butai Revealed - 3/22/2016 12:54:49 AM   
John 3rd


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Even while trying to avoid that YMS, I still ran into it or another. KB is now known and I am pissed. Sent this note to Dan after mailing the last turn back to him:

Dan,

I am writing this separate of the just sent turn.

When we stopped our match several years ago one of the things that truly drove me mad was your use of small, insignificant merchant shipping as pickets, recon units, etc... It was brought up then and there was much comment in your AAR as well as mine. It is an issue again. I have semi-playfully addressed it over the last month of turns but it drives me mad. These YMS and other ships are merchant vessels and should not be used in this manner. Warships I have no issue with but merchants I do.

I’ve now had tipped off a HUGE part of this game due to a merchant—purposefully—placed out a projected path of movement to soak up sorties from my CVs or as sacrificial lambs to tip you of the movement. This YMS was spotted last turn and my CVs tried to avoid it but still ran over the stupid bugger. I’d wager you had little direct knowledge of my entire CV Fleet being this close to your TFs. I’ve purposefully waited for the opportunity to come after you by steadily pulling my CVs back from Sabang and putting them in a central location for fairly ‘quick’ movement and attack. Well...I am COMING and now you know. Wanna play?

The issue is real and needs to be addressed presently.

John


Is this an over-reaction on my part?

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Post #: 1793
RE: Kido Butai Revealed - 3/22/2016 1:14:49 AM   
obvert


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If you have no HR against using any single ship TF as a picket then I don't think it matter what kind is being used. The US could have done this in the same manner Japan did do it with fishing vessels etc, which is basically what a YMS is. In fact a lot of them were converted from deep sea fishing vessels. Like some Japanese PBs.

You had the power to take out al of those ships earlier than your fleet got there. Why not just send an AV in there with a few escorts and 9 Jakes flying?

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RE: Kido Butai Revealed - 3/22/2016 1:25:39 AM   
obvert


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wrong AAR for this post, sorry!

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/22/2016 12:00:44 PM >


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RE: Kido Butai Revealed - 3/22/2016 1:25:55 AM   
MBF

 

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My OPINION: its pretty ahistorical for the Allies to use small semi-combatants for such - even if they could - especially far from their homelands. By the same token, how come Allies can't use kamikazes then ? Seems like someone is again gaming the system in a "win at any costs" style. </rant off>

< Message edited by MBF -- 3/22/2016 1:27:08 AM >

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Post #: 1796
RE: Kido Butai Revealed - 3/22/2016 1:36:44 AM   
BillBrown


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The YMS is a naval vessel, it is an Auxiliary Minesweeper. These were built for the Navy.

The Yippies ( YPs ) were a collection of miscellaneous ships. Some were made up of Tuna Clippers
and were capable of long range travel and carried radios. Others were transferred from the Coast Guard
and also had long range radios. These small ships did do patrol work all over the war areas.


< Message edited by BillBrown -- 3/22/2016 1:49:03 AM >

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Post #: 1797
RE: Kido Butai Revealed - 3/22/2016 1:39:27 AM   
Anachro


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I think its a little of an overreaction given no HR in place for it. I say just accept the discovery for now, but maybe try to create a new HR from this turn onward.

The Japanese used fisherman as picket ships; and as bill points out it is a purpose-built naval vessel, although I have no knowledge o them used as anything other than mine sweepers. I certainly don't think allies doing the same is nearly as much of a stretch as allies being able to do kamikaze attacks... However, I would agree that it seems if picket ships were used by the USN, they tended to be DEs are DDs, particularly as radar pickets for air attacks during amphibious invasions.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 3/22/2016 1:42:28 AM >

(in reply to MBF)
Post #: 1798
RE: Kido Butai Revealed - 3/22/2016 2:00:45 AM   
MBF

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 3/25/2008
Status: offline
My opinion - I sort of want my WITP games to have a historical feel and flavor - and not just be a skin for Starcraft ... ymmv

In any case this is between John and the gentleman from Georgia - and I need to butt out

:-)

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 1799
RE: Kido Butai Revealed - 3/22/2016 2:06:44 AM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Even while trying to avoid that YMS, I still ran into it or another. KB is now known and I am pissed. Sent this note to Dan after mailing the last turn back to him:

Dan,

I am writing this separate of the just sent turn.

When we stopped our match several years ago one of the things that truly drove me mad was your use of small, insignificant merchant shipping as pickets, recon units, etc... It was brought up then and there was much comment in your AAR as well as mine. It is an issue again. I have semi-playfully addressed it over the last month of turns but it drives me mad. These YMS and other ships are merchant vessels and should not be used in this manner. Warships I have no issue with but merchants I do.

I’ve now had tipped off a HUGE part of this game due to a merchant—purposefully—placed out a projected path of movement to soak up sorties from my CVs or as sacrificial lambs to tip you of the movement. This YMS was spotted last turn and my CVs tried to avoid it but still ran over the stupid bugger. I’d wager you had little direct knowledge of my entire CV Fleet being this close to your TFs. I’ve purposefully waited for the opportunity to come after you by steadily pulling my CVs back from Sabang and putting them in a central location for fairly ‘quick’ movement and attack. Well...I am COMING and now you know. Wanna play?

The issue is real and needs to be addressed presently.

John


Is this an over-reaction on my part?


Yes

_____________________________


(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 1800
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