RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2015 6:34:37 PM

Canoerebel

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Battle of Sumatra

To reinforce or not to reinforce...to fight forward or not...are the questions I'm debating.

I am aware that players of a certain caliber could take the situation the Allies have in Sumatra and use it to good advantage, feeding in reinforcements (land and air) and manage to keep John at bay. Doing so successfully would preserve the dagger in John's side that an Allied Sumatra represents. Doing so successfully would also mean that I wouldn't have any real concerns about Ceylon, NE India and Burma.

The problem is that I am a player of a different and somewhat lesser caliber. I have a hard time envisioning a scenario in which such a campaign would offer reasonable odds of success.

If I abandon caution and choose the aggressive defense, hoping that through hard work and application of thought, I could win, there is a prospect that I'll actually be reinforcing defeat at catastrophic cost. Most of the Allied Army in this theater is now committed forward in Sumatra and Burma. If I bring in additional reinforcements (which will mainly come from Ceylon, which has roughly 350 AV available), I leave the cupboard bare. That's bad for defense, but it also means going forward the Allies will have little to fight with for a long, long time.

The same thing applies to combat ships and some merchant ships. I've lost quite a bit in this campaign to date and losses could become prohibitive, affecting operations well into the future.

These are things I'm mulling over. Fight aggressively or fight defensively are the two options.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 12/21/2015 7:37:08 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2015 7:12:01 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
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Ground reinforcement would be a bad idea, as you outlined. Advancing in Sumatra would require that, and so should wait. Merely keeping the lodgment viable is a success because of what it ties down and the position it holds for later use.

Air reinforcement is called for to the point of holding. Obviously at this point the Allies are hard pressed for aerial resources, at least fighters, which are what matter there.

Is this game new enough that it has the AA re-calibration that JWE did? Some of that applied to land, also, IIRC. And Michael did make some changes or a change a couple of years back that improved the performance of land AA (don't recall the nature of it). Depending on what is already there, some ground reinforcement of AA units might be in order.

I understand the time of game and that nothing spectacular is imminent in far off fronts. In Patton's "Grab them by the nose and kick them in the ass!" this is the nose you've grabbed, and holding it is an objective in itself. In this case, holding it is doing something.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 12/21/2015 11:58:23 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/21/2015 8:56:06 PM

HansBolter

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I agree completely.

Cutting and running would likely entail huge losses in ground troops and ships.

Continuing aggressive expansion is beyond your pool depths in men, planes and ships at this juncture.

Holding tenaciously is the order of the day.

Make him commit resources in the effort to dislodge you.

Feed in only enough to hold on ala...Stalingrad.

Time is on your side. Use it well.

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Post #: 3813

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/22/2015 2:48:55 PM

Canoerebel

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01/09/43

No turn from John since yesterday morning. But I didn't post an update on yesterday's activity, so here goes:

KB: Retired strong SSW to a point NW of Sabang. It's almost as if John is aggressively pursuing the chicks that fled Sabang to the west. If he continues, he can catch up to some of the slower vessels, and his search picked up some of them. The major ships - fast BBs South Dakota and Something-Or-Other-I-Forget-Which-State are in the clear, as is slow BB Resolution. The APDs and DMs are also clear. But an AE and AS or two plus a few xAP are in harm's way. None of my suface combat TFs, including CL Helena, succeeded in intercepting.

Mini KB: Retired from Port Blair to a point NNW of Sabang, separated considerably from KB. Mini-KB flew a strike against Sabang's CAP. The strike got chewed up.

IJN Carrier Dispersal: John has his three carrier TFs separated, which is risky behavior in enemy waters. Had I forseen how he would do this, I would've moved to fight KB in detail. But from my viewpoint, the rational action was for him to mas his carriers together, so I acted on the assumption he would act rationally. I was willing to give battle when so many intangibles were in my favor (as when I offered it near Ceylon a few turns back), but not further south where several of those intangibles are considerably reduced.

On the Ground: A big stack of IJ divisions defeated the Allied army south of Medan, gaining a 3:1. This surprised me. I thought Verndergrift's Marines plus supporting units would hold in jungle terrain. This means the Allies will lose Medan and that the ground campaign will shift over the next week or so towards Langsa.

In the Air: Big Tojo sweeps versus mostly Army Air Cap at Sabang. The Army does pretty well. John is having a hard time winning this battle, which comes as a bit of a surprise too. When we restarted the game with the 1/3/43 turn, I figured Sabang air defense would be shut down by now.

Burma: The Allies will put up meaningful LRCAP over two stacks of ground units near Magwe. This is their first appearance in weeks (and years, real time, given our hiatus from the game). John's been sending in scores of naked Helens, Salleys, etc., so I hope to pick some off.

Pacific and Elsewhere: I'm looking hard at longterm plans here. I have very long range objectives that begin with tiny steps ongoing now. But this is so far off into the future that there's no need to go into detail. Suffice to say, the Allies will eventually kick Japan's booty out of Sumatra or Java or New Guinea or the Aleutians or the Marshalls or some exotic place.

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Post #: 3814

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/23/2015 7:03:42 PM

Canoerebel

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1/10/43

Battle of Sumatra: Massed Tojo sweeps at Sabang result in roughly 1:1 losses, a result that isn't sustainable for the Allies if Japan can keep up the pressure. The Allied forward armies are trying to consolidate at Medan, the first step towards withdrawing into the jungle near Langsa.

Battle of Burma: Allied LRCAP trap works to perfection, downing a bunch of Helens, etc. over the Allied stack near Magwe. John will react strongly, so I'll have to cross him up tomorrow.

Air Losses: The Allies continue to win the air battles while somehow losing the air war. In the last week, Japan has lost 529 aircraft; the Allies have lost 247. For the game, Japan has lost 8,523 and the Allies 5,662. Despite P-39s facing Tojos, the Allies are even winning the a-2-a combats overall.

KB: Retires "into the shades," as the legendary Greyjoy would say. Lots of Allied subs concentrating at the Sunda Straits, but John may send his carriers around the long way. All the chicks fleeing west from Sabang look safe. Some will exit the map and make for Capetown. Others are heading to Colombo.

Death Star: Wasp will retire to Capetown. The other carriers are going to Bombay to upgrade, where available.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/23/2015 7:11:00 PM

Canoerebel

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The Tortured Tale of HMS Ramilles

Ramilles continues her odd ways. Each turn, I issue orders setting Capetown as her "home port" and give orders for her to return. Each turn, the computer resets the home port to Colombo and sends her back into harm's way. I think this is a glitch in the game. If so, its the second to affect Ramilles. After she was torpedoed in the autumn of '42 during the Battle of Assam, she retired to Male Island to pump out water. A glitch occurred where I couldn't get her out of "pierside." That glitch was resolved when John and I upgraded last week. So Ramilles should've been in Capetown months ago but instead is stuck in the Twilight Zone.

This time I've set her destination and home port to Socatra in hopes of shaking free of whatever retracting beam has hold on Ramilles.

These aren't the only glitches that have bedeviled me in this theater. The biggest thus far was when the game manged to reset some of my Sumatra invasion TFs from "combat mode" to "strat mode." As a result, 27th USA Division came ashore in strat mode! This slowed down the opening moves of the invasion.

Another puzzling and harmful bug was that none of the Allied BBs would bombard the coastal hexes near Ramree Island. The Kaigun had to retire after losing several battles, which left the way clear for many bombardment runs against several vulnerable and key hexes held by Japan. I never did get that resolved. It's possible that those hexes are intentionally immune from bombardment by sea, but I never got confirmation.

The vagaries of chance in warfare!

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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 12/23/2015 8:13:30 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/23/2015 8:15:33 PM

zuluhour

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There are non base coastal hexes which never receive the bombardment allowed in the orders. I do not believe this was ever changed. Those air losses look a bit "skewed".

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/23/2015 8:55:46 PM

HansBolter

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Try disbanding Ramillies and reforming a new TF.

That ought to shake whatever hold was on the prior TF.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/23/2015 9:24:20 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Try disbanding Ramillies and reforming a new TF.

That ought to shake whatever hold was on the prior TF.

Ships with high floatation damage will seek the nearest port. This can be overcome by specifying routing Direct-Absolute and by ensuring the captain has high aggression stats 60+. Provision of an adequate escort (that can help with damage control) also helps convince the AI that it should take the risk. For a BB, another BB or at least a cruiser (preferably two) will offer better damage control support than a couple of DDs.
Aim for the border at the map edge and then if you want to return some of the escorts to Colombo you can, while Ramilles continues on to CT.

I doubt the AI will be impressed with Socotra as a port for repair of floatation damage!

Hans' idea is also worth doing in case it is a bug of some kind.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/23/2015 9:31:59 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

There are non base coastal hexes which never receive the bombardment allowed in the orders. I do not believe this was ever changed. Those air losses look a bit "skewed".

Remember when you were trying to bombard Moulmein and could not get the bombardment to happen? One of the newer players (Mundy, I think) figured out the problem was the sea hex edge for Moulmein had a red border, meaning cliffs or something that prevents passage/landings. He found a way to get at Moulmein by having the bombardment TF pass through the base between Rangoon and Moulmein to bombard from a green hexside.

The coast around Ramree Island also has some dead spots, but use the F6 key to see the hex side details and see if there is a way to go around the dead spots, using waypoints if necessary.

Edit: Some corrections to my original (fuzzy memory) response:

jmalter was the poster who found a way to bombard a hex that turned out to be the one NE of Moulmein, not the base itself. Here is his PM to me:

hi BBf,

After some experimentin', I've solved by BombTF prob - bombarding the coastal hex (56,54) between Pegu & Moulmein.

CAs based at Rangoon (port 9(6), 36 NavSupp) must waypoint through Pegu. Threat Tolerance is Normal.

R-class BBs based at Pegu (port 3(0), 0 NavSupp) must waypoint 1 hex SW of Pegu, then through Pegu. Threat Tolerance is Absolute. They re-arm from 3 x 4200-cap AKEs disbanded at Pegu.

These 2 TFs are (finally!) consistently bombarding their Target during the 2nd Night phase of each 2-day turn. The Pegu beebs attract a lot of attention from IJ air, but it's a CAP-trap for my fighters based at Rangoon, Pegu & Moulmein.

Also, I had a look at the map and it does NOT show the red (impassable) hex side in areas that are resisting bombardment attempts. It must be hidden in the coding rather than something you can suss out.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 12/24/2015 2:07:00 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/23/2015 11:33:02 PM

Crackaces

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The behavior I have observed is:

Float damage occurs
Program checks for a threshold
Flt > Threshold -- > change homeport to nearest port start in that direction

A lot of consquental things are happening and I could be way off .. for example, I see float damange increasing therefore I am assuming this is the trigger for the code to change my home port status .. if somebody could comment that they have seen this behavior without float damage increasing it would blw my assumptions out of the water so to speak

What is interesting is my observation is that threat of the move is not checked that I could see when I encoutered this problem. That is in the case I encoutered this behavior (purposely not calling it a problem as I do not know the expected behavior..) my BB turned toward the nearest port and was slaughtered by land based air rather than keep away ...

So in summary I am assuming is that increasing float damage is reentering loop to redirect toward a close port? Only somebody like Micheal M can look at this for sure ..

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/24/2015 12:59:00 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

The behavior I have observed is:

Float damage occurs
Program checks for a threshold
Flt > Threshold -- > change homeport to nearest port start in that direction

A lot of consquental things are happening and I could be way off .. for example, I see float damange increasing therefore I am assuming this is the trigger for the code to change my home port status .. if somebody could comment that they have seen this behavior without float damage increasing it would blw my assumptions out of the water so to speak What is interesting is my observation is that threat of the move is not checked that I could see when I encoutered this problem. That is in the case I encoutered this behavior (purposely not calling it a problem as I do not know the expected behavior..) my BB turned toward the nearest port and was slaughtered by land based air rather than keep away ...

So in summary I am assuming is that increasing float damage is reentering loop to redirect toward a close port? Only somebody like Micheal M can look at this for sure ..

My impression is that it is not an increase in flood, but an absolute threshold like 40% or 50%. System damage may be factored into it too, so that 40% with little system damage does not trigger the run for port whereas 40% floatation damage plus 30% system damage would trigger such a change in routing.
I have not written down my observations but I am quite certain I have seen ships run for port with float damage just above 40%. Since I started putting most TFs on Direct/Absolute routing I have only seen the behaviour when the AI forms an Escort TF with routing changed to normal and damage quite high - in the 70s or so for either system or float. I guess even risk-taking skippers have their limits.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/25/2015 9:23:03 PM

JeffroK

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I see in The War Room that JIII doesnt like his beloved CV being given a smack.

In his next mod KB will get armoured decks and 15" guns.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/25/2015 10:22:18 PM

zuluhour

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surprised there are no catapult launched cherry blossoms hanging in up on the third deck.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/26/2015 12:00:25 AM

JeffroK

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They appear in 1944.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/26/2015 4:21:27 PM

Canoerebel

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1/11/43

Battle of Sumatra: More waves of Tojos result in a standoff, 1:1 losses (roughly 20 each, with most of the Allied casualties in the form of Navy F4Fs). The forward Allied army has consolidated at Medan in preparation for retiring a hex into the jungle. I'm moving forward about 50 F4Fs to cover Langa tomorrow, hoping to bushwhack unescorted bombers. More F4Fs moved from Ramree to Sabang. I'm still trying to gauge whether there's a chance the Allies can continue to contest the air. I won't know for certain until I see if John can maintain almost daily massed sweeps of the base. If he can do so, the Battle will end by the end of the month. If he can't sustain the losses he's taking, then I can drag things out.

Battle of Burma: The Allies will try a probing attack near Magwe tomorrow. John stood down his airforce after the big losses he took yesterday.

Flight of the Chicks: Nearly all ships ordered to retire from Sabang to Capetown have now exited the map.

Saga of the HMS Ramilles: The computer deems Socatra a worthy target and thus allows Ramilles to limp that way. Eventually I'll give another shot to moving her to Capetown.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/28/2015 1:56:37 PM

Canoerebel

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1/12/43

Battle of Sumatra: Another fine day in the air for the Allies, who hold their own against Tojo sweeps over Sabang and knock down quite a few bombers over Langsa. The Allied Army at Medan is retiring in decent order. Some units (tanks mainly) will make the jungle tomorrow. The bigger infantry units might take three or four days - enough for John's army to arrive and attack. Not sure what shape my army will be in when it all gets into the jungle, but I think the Allies will be strong enough to fight this battle for quite some time. Two AA units are inbound from India - don't know yet if I'll be able to get them in with so much going on.

Fleeing Chicks: Part (all?) of the KB is nearing Diego Garcia - John hoping to pick off fleeing chicks. Nearly all have exited the map edge now with just one or two laggards in harm's way.

Ramilles and Waps: Ramillies is still making steam for Socatra. Wasp should exit the map tomorrow or next day in preparation for repairs at Capetown.

Battle of Burma: The Allies really mess up Japanese air attacks on Ramree Island.

Air War: On the day, the Allies knock down Japanese aircraft at 4:1 or better, downing 100+ and losing about 25. I don't think I lost any P-39s or P-38s at Sabang and just a handful of P-40Ks. But I did lose roughly 20 F4Fs, which is worrisome. The Chinese even have a squadron of P-40Es at Sabang and they're doing a decent job.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/28/2015 7:32:22 PM

Canoerebel

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An interesting email from John III today that I want to share with you. As always, please don't warn John not to disclose things in emails (not that anybody would do so intentionally; but without a warning a forumite might do so accidentally).

John wrote an email that I think says alot when interpreted in conjunction with some current circumstances and the familiarity we have with each other. Here's what he wrote:

"This war is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lost for Japan. You can see it and I can see it.

"Your assault was a stroke of brilliance. It has been costly and I had a bunch of momentum going on prior to the ending of the match but the re-start has been horrific. Four days of your shipping escaping (I had hoped for about 100 sunk ships and instead I got about 30) and my carriers wouldn�t fly a sortie. Just defied the imagination. Add to that Escort Fighters who don�t bother fighting opposing Allied fighters and one sees all sorts of trouble. Prediction: I will drive you back to Padang [he means Sabang] and then Stacking Limits will wreak havoc with you. In the meantime you will take Burma and life will look pretty bleak for Japan. Kudos for your future achievement."

First this is just a temporary state of mind induced by frustration. John will recover his equilibrium soon and procced to thrash the Allies in Sumatra in all likelihood.

But he does reveal quite a few things...assuming that his sentiments are genuine and not part of a maskirvoka. So which is it? I'm certain that he's being genuine. The most telling thing is that John's suddenly become very slow in flipping turns. Part of this is attributable to the holidays and his other games, but there's a definite pattern suggesting that he's tempoarily flummoxed and uncertain and probably ticked off by recent air battles. From my prior experience with John, I (and probably most of the forum) knows that when he's got something in the works, he flips turns fast and posts to his AAR frequently.

With that in mind, here's how his AAR helps me and what it tells me:

1. The Air War must be stumping him and he probably doesn't have present plans to try an end-round invasion of Sabang. Rather he intends to plod forward on the ground. The fact that the Air War is hurting tells me to keep fighting as long as I can possibly afford to do so. Right now I think I can for some time to come. (Eventually I expect him to employ the KB along with all land-based air in an effort to overwhelm in one single powerful thrust.)

2. Things may be more challenging for him in Burma than I realized. I've already upped the tempo of the Air War, but I'll really concentrate on using LBA to hit airfields and ground troops hoping to increase the places where John needs CAP.

3. I hadn't even thought about stacking limits at Sabang until John mentioned it. I'll have to give it some thought, but my initial reaction would be to disperse unneeded units to adjacent jungle hexes when the enemy nears the base.

I don't know how long the Allies can hold out or even if it's possible to stand long enough to eventually go back over to the offensive, thus keeping Sabang permanently. But right now I think the Allies can hold for a minimum of another month, maybe two.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/28/2015 7:36:51 PM

witpqs

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When you say:

quote:

With that in mind, here's how his AAR helps me and what it tells me:

I take it you mean his "email"?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/28/2015 7:42:10 PM

Canoerebel

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Yeah, I meant his email. :)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/28/2015 9:40:24 PM

jwolf

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Very cool to read the Psy War along with the actual Combat War. I'm not in position to offer game advice, but keep up the great writing!

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/29/2015 1:55:32 AM

ny59giants

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Since your game resumed, the rate of turns between John and I have decreased to one a day and occasional two per day. I told him doing three PBEMs, two AARs, running Subway, and having a family is a lot to deal with. I'm glad his wife is understanding. We had three phone calls today while I was driving from family to family and then home. I know in our game (late Nov 42) he is frustrated with the lack of success in the Air War. The P-38s in sweep are devastating him.

In Burma, he is in hit and run mode with his fighters. Mr Tojo is not the uber-fighter like it is in stock which doesn't help his morale. Right now he is winning the naval war and while he is over at Diego Garcia with you, he is headed to SE corner map edge chasing my warships and transports off the map to Port Stanley. Putting my counselor's hat on here, he does take the naval side of AE to heart more than land or air part of the game. KB didn't do what he expected, so he is a little depressed right now.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/29/2015 6:12:50 AM

JocMeister

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I think you are right about keeping the pressure on. Obviously you have him frustrated!

As Micheal says he is probably disappointed KB didn�t smash everything in the IO to pieces. His usual response to any allied threat is usually to send the KB in guns blazing and now that didn�t work. I�m not so sure Sumatra is doomed. You have terrain and SLs working for you. If you can get 2-3 IDs into Sumatra together with a lot of AA I think you have a decent chance at holding. John has never had much interest in ground combat and I think he lacks patience for the process of grinding the allies down. China is good proof of this as John always do very badly there.

I think if you can beat off 3-4 big attacks here John will lose interest and probably stop trying.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/29/2015 4:33:45 PM

Canoerebel

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1/13/43

Battle of Sumatra: No air attacks on Sabang today. I think the Allies can stand here under the current model (a day or two of IJ attacks followed by a day or two of rest). John will have to do something different, like massing LBA and naval air or first trying to bombard the base from sea. The latter is problematic for him due to the number of mines (960) plus subs. So he's leary of that for the moment.

On the ground, the Allies are retiring in fairly good order to Langsa. I think I'll have 1300 to 1500 AV in the jungle. That should be a tough nut for John to crack. He has at least seven divisions present, but quite a few of them have been chewed up in previous attacks on the island.

KB remains well to the west of Sabang. All fleeing chicks have exited the map edge, so he has no potential victims out there. CV Wasp is 14 days out of Capetown now.

John should reclaim Medan in a day or two or three. That will retore his oil flow from the base. The oil production is pretty stout and has been flowing to Sabang, keeping my ships in good shape. I wish I could hold Medan, but it's clear terrain and too remote to allow even creative air defense. Better to err on the side of trying to maintain a strong lodgement in northern Sumatra, which I think is possible though not probable. John can probably win this campaign though it's not as hopeless as I thought a week or two ago.

The key things in the Battle of Sumatra thus far have been two: the ability and willingness to employ carrier fighters (they've made a huge difference) and the quality of the Allied fighter pilot corps. Nearly all Allied fighter pilots have reached elite status, meaning even P-39s, P-40Es, and even Chinese P-40Es are effective. The F4Fs are good. The P-40Ks and P-38Gs are flat robust. I just wish I had more of the latter.

A troop convoy carrying two AA units will arrive at Sabang in two days or so. It's in harm's way, but the window seems most available now, with KB just having departed. We'll see.

Battle of Burma: Japanese massed air attacks on the Allied army just south of Magwe don't do much. Allied 4EB hit the airfield at Magwe. 2EB, mostly B-25s, hit a Royal Thai regiment (1 Division/A) north of Magwe. I'm ramping up things in this theater in hopes that it might be possible to stretch John between Sumatra and Burma. I'm certainly stretched between the two, but perhaps I can work the same on him.

Elsewhere: As stated previously, lots of small steps underway. The Allies won't undertake any major operations for a long time to come but preparations and small steps have already started.

Game Pace: John is stretched having three games underway, as NYGiants noted above. I've just sent him an email encouraging him to make this game his lowest priority since it just resumed and shouldn't unfairly take his attention from the other two. Games have ebbs and flows - sometimes they hit lulls in activity, sometimes players go on vacation, etc. - I'm fine if John concentrates on the other two and uses this to fill in gaps in availability. But I'm also convinced that he's at a temporary loss about how to handle Sumatra. Once he comes up with a plan - might be 10 minutes, 10 days or a month - he'll be back at it.

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 3834

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/29/2015 4:41:03 PM

jwolf

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About your pilots and the air war: could this be your payoff for the 8 to 5 kill ratio during the first year? That is, many (??) of his better pilots have been lost in the brutal attrition while more of yours have survived, and that with good experience?

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 3835

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/29/2015 5:05:41 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Yes, I think that's what's going on.

It's a razor-edge balancing act for the Allied player (at least in this Mod). By fighting hard, often, and effectively, Allied pilots have become elite. But aircraft pools are non-existent making it hard to fight. Is it worth it to have no plane pools in order to create elite pilots? Debatable. Is it possible to achieve elite status without draining plane pools? Maybe, but the results this far - 8.6K IJ planes downed to 5.7k Allied planes - are pretty impressive. I could do better, but probably not that much better.

If I played a game with similar dynamics in the future, I'd be hard pressed between whether to safeguard the pools or fight hard to bleed Japan and develop the fighter pilot corps.

In this game, John employs massed raids of bombers every turn in Sumatra and in Burma. Nearly all raids are heavily escorted by fighters. And he still has hundreds of fighters to employ in sweeps (and probably others to use for CAP, though I'm not as knowledgeable about that for reasons I'll describe in a moment).

In contrast, the Allies have to employ all fighters on CAP duty. I don't have many bombers to fly missions. When bombing missions are flown there are no fighters available for escort.

It's an imbalance that doesn't make sense to me from a competition standpoint. Of course, it's probably a byproduct of PDU on? Allied players want Japan to be much stronger than in the real war so that the competition is sharp and enjoyable deep into the war. So we willingly choose scenarios or mods that give the Japanese player alot of boosts. But the unintended consequence is that the air war is wildly skewed in '42 and '43. At least that's my impression. By late '42 I can take on Japan at sea and on the ground. But not in the air.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 12/29/2015 6:07:06 PM >

(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 3836

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/29/2015 7:39:39 PM

Panther Bait

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I think one of the important points of the air war is for the Allies to fight where it's in their best interest and not just everywhere. Fighting defensively protects your pilots, increasing their skills, and attrites the Japanese fighter skills (even if you can't really dent their pools). As time moves on, that effect hopefully snowballs and increases your skills and decreases his.

Then when you start to get the really good Allied aircraft, you can hopefully expand further and further on that imbalance.

In any way, you seem to be doing it right in this game at least. Nice job.

Mike

_____________________________

When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.

Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 3837

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/29/2015 10:56:27 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It's an imbalance that doesn't make sense to me from a competition standpoint. Of course, it's probably a byproduct of PDU on? Allied players want Japan to be much stronger than in the real war so that the competition is sharp and enjoyable deep into the war. So we willingly choose scenarios or mods that give the Japanese player alot of boosts. But the unintended consequence is that the air war is wildly skewed in '42 and '43. At least that's my impression. By late '42 I can take on Japan at sea and on the ground. But not in the air.

Pax Mondo and others have insisted that Japan is not helping itself by overproducing fighters in PDU on. The argument is that Japan's reserves of supply must be used to support the troops in the field because there is simply not enough supply production to keep up with demand. In consequence, the Japanese economy can run out of supply reserves in 1944, perhaps earlier in your game.

I guess that means you should keep him fighting hard for a few more months if possible. Besides, it's good entertainment for the masses!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 3838

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/30/2015 12:10:30 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Yeah, I know that pilot training/pools can be an "enjoy now, pay later" conundrum for Japan.

But the problem is that the air war is so one-sided in '42 and '43 that the Allies have a tough time competing. Or, I should say, the Allies have historical numbers that are dwarfed by Japan's. Japan can do so vastly much more than the Allies. I'd prefer to have it more competitive in '42 and '43 in the air so that the Allies are somewhat competitive, while also giving Japan more from '43 to '45 to keep them more competitive then.

This imbalance may be an artifact only of this mod (which is based on a DaBabes IIRC) and PDU On, so it may be easily addressed by picking a better mix of scenario and PDU Off. I just went into this game rather blind, accepting both Mod and house rules without much thought. That's on me.

I think the Allies invasion of Sumatra was a smashing success in terms of both surprise and planning - the Allies brought gracious plenty of everything. With any kind of balance in the air war, the invasion would be a dagger in John's heart. He should pay for failing to adequately garrison such a critical area and for failing to keep up appropriate naval search. But the air war imbalance may allow him to largely escape a fate he deserves. :)

This is just a general analysis on my part as I contemplate what I'd look for in a game in the future. But, for now, I'm having an absolute blast with this game, warts, surprises, failures to understand what I was doing, and all. There's a glimmer of hope that the Allies will be able to hold Sumatra and make John pay for his mistakes. That's my objective: Make Him Pay! Make Him Pay! Make Him Pay!

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 3839

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 12/30/2015 12:51:03 AM

desicat

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He has already paid. It is Jan 43 and he is reacting to your invasion of Sumatra and is no longer expanding nor threatening the deep sea lanes with his offensive assets. He has lost the initiative and you know the approximate location of his most threatening forces.

His air losses are huge, Burma appears to be under-garrisoned, and he is burning fuel and supplies at a furious pace.

You are already in the beginning stages of planning your next leap forward while furiously holding on in Sumatra while he continues to react and tries to dig you out. He is going to have to scramble to sort things out over the next 3-4 months while you only get stronger. The whole thing is going to collapse upon him in early 44, he won't have the normal strategic depth to trade space for time.

You are going to continue to have a lot of fun with this.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 3840

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