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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 4:28:19 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Yeah... if the game made us take the ground units to one of the same ports as ships are required to use for being withdrawn from the game they would have to give us a lot more PP due to all the units we would be overlooking on a regular basis.


And I commend you on your appreciation for all that hard training your men have been doing.

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 1/19/2017 4:29:33 AM >

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8671
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 6:54:45 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirtnap86

I'm recalling something that I read about in an earlier AAR, Greyjoy against someone. In that he had an issue at the end of the AAR: A big enough strike will always get through. I think he lost something like the majority of his CVs and CVEs because the air combat algorithm just couldn't handle all the planes that were in combat (If I recall correctly it was something like 600-800 planes, per side).

I don't know if this ever got fixed or not, but I'd be cautious.

It was fixed. Investigation showed that the AI was only allowing 30 interceptions per air combat which was far too little for the huge strikes and CAP that were fighting. The programmers upped the interception count considerably but I don't know the number.
Canoerebel's DS CAP did well during the DEI landings so I expect it will do even better now with the CV upgrades and more experienced pilots.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Dirtnap86)
Post #: 8672
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 10:58:37 AM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		It has been fixed. Late Allied CAP is like a buzz-saw....I doubt that John will tempt fate by trying to take on the entire Allied Death Star.

It makes more sense for him, at this point, to nibble around the edges or try to get Canoe to split his forces to try for a more even fight. But we all know that "an even fight" is exactly the opposite of what we want to see.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8673
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 12:17:09 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirtnap86

I'm recalling something that I read about in an earlier AAR, Greyjoy against someone. In that he had an issue at the end of the AAR: A big enough strike will always get through. I think he lost something like the majority of his CVs and CVEs because the air combat algorithm just couldn't handle all the planes that were in combat (If I recall correctly it was something like 600-800 planes, per side).

I don't know if this ever got fixed or not, but I'd be cautious.

It was fixed. Investigation showed that the AI was only allowing 30 interceptions per air combat which was far too little for the huge strikes and CAP that were fighting. The programmers upped the interception count considerably but I don't know the number.
Canoerebel's DS CAP did well during the DEI landings so I expect it will do even better now with the CV upgrades and more experienced pilots.



I thought it was originally limited to 200 interceptor passes which was woefully inadequate in battles with over 300 bombers.

Anything over 200 bombers automatically got through unscathed.

Not sure what the limit is now, but I'm sure some players will find a way to exceed it.

Hopefully, three is no longer any limit at all.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8674
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 12:29:47 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		You guys 'r makin' me nervous with all this glitch talk. I'd forgotten all about Greyjoy's situation, and didn't understand most of it back then.

I'll keep doing what seems right - keeping DS and the Herd close together while trying to avoid close proximity to big airfields and KB at the same time.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 8675
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 12:37:38 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		John cannot afford to lose (or tie, I think) a big carrier battle. If he does, nothing stands between Death Star and the Home Islands, and DS can impose a tight blockade between the South China Sea and the Home Islands.

I cannot afford to lose a big carrier battle. If I do, I'll probably lose a 200,000 man army.

But time is on my side. John will be reinforcing his Luzon army quickly. And he'll make trouble in the middle islands and channels. But if he doesn't act decisively in the short term, things may erode for him in the medium term. I bet Legaspi will be a level two or three airfield inside ten days, giving me two good airfields...with a likelihood of further progress. And I have 30 carriers (mostly, but not all, CVEs) in the Pacific. They can, if necessary, join Fun House. I'd have to make sure the LOC was open though. If KB is confirmed in the South China Sea, the LOC would be open. If KB is roaming in the Pacific, then the LOC isn't open (though I could bring them in through the DEI, if necessary).

No matter how I look at this it seems to me that, short term, I have to be extremely cautious with DS while concentrating on building Legaspi and Naga very strong. There won't be any blitzkrieg charge to Manila nor any rapid expansion west, island-hopping towards the South China Sea. Until KB is neutralized or my bases built large, I'll be playing defense (mostly).



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/19/2017 12:38:09 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8676
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 1:04:50 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		I just finished a game against the AI with all the latest patches and Death Star type task forces fared well against waves and waves of attacks including kamikazes whilst sailing near the Home Islands. CAP got most and AAA got most of the rest. Maybe if a single strike package had 300 or more planes but strikes are usually not that coordinated. Think I had 1 Essex eat a torp and 1 kamikaze hit in 4 days of strikes. Strikes got through and then the flak would chew then up. What was left was to disorganized to hit anything. Accept the fact that some planes are going to get through, just as in real life. Look CVL Princeton get taken out by a single Judy

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8677
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 1:06:22 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

John cannot afford to lose (or tie, I think) a big carrier battle. If he does, nothing stands between Death Star and the Home Islands, and DS can impose a tight blockade between the South China Sea and the Home Islands.

Neither one of you can afford to lose. Difference is you can afford not to have such a battle. Not so sure the same is true for your opponent

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 1/19/2017 10:54:59 PM >

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8678
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 1:11:57 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

And I have 30 carriers (mostly, but not all, CVEs) in the Pacific. They can, if necessary, join Fun House. I'd have to make sure the LOC was open though. If KB is confirmed in the South China Sea, the LOC would be open. If KB is roaming in the Pacific, then the LOC isn't open (though I could bring them in through the DEI, if necessary).


I've been wondering (worrying, really) about this issue for some time. Eventually you have to clear this LOC so you have secure transit, say between Hawaii and Luzon. Right?

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 8679
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 1:24:20 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I don't have to clear a CenPac LOC, at least anytime soon. Australia/DEI is a viable route (btw, that's how Fun House - all of it - got here!). But eventually I'll want to clear that LOC - once KB is neutralized or confirmed out of position.

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 8680
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 3:48:54 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'm at work, working industriously and efficiently...with both eyes on the inbox.

I sent the turn to John late last night. He posted a few times then. He's posted a few times this morning. But the pace doesn't suggest that anything major happened this turn.

For you, the reader, "nothing major" isn't the stuff of a Grisham novel. For me, the tired player hanging on every turn, peace and tranquility are gold.

Of course, I could be misreading John's habits. I bet I'll know soon.

In the meantime, I'll continue working industriously and efficiently.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8681
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 4:22:59 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Mental health counselor to former legal counselor - Since we both know John better than anybody else here, I do get a chuckle or two reading your attempts to be a mental health counselor. I get to talk with John usually weekly more or less, so I do have an advantage of getting more clues to what his mindset is than you.

So, please keep reading the 'tea leaves' or tossing the bones on the table to see what they say. I do need my breaks each day from dealing with dysfunctional families.

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8682
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 4:48:58 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirtnap86

I'm recalling something that I read about in an earlier AAR, Greyjoy against someone. In that he had an issue at the end of the AAR: A big enough strike will always get through. I think he lost something like the majority of his CVs and CVEs because the air combat algorithm just couldn't handle all the planes that were in combat (If I recall correctly it was something like 600-800 planes, per side).

I don't know if this ever got fixed or not, but I'd be cautious.


Yes, this was addressed - apparently there was an oversight in the original code causing air coordination to be too easy.

The observable result is that there are more strikes, but each is smaller, instead of a few mega-strikes.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 1/19/2017 4:50:26 PM >

(in reply to Dirtnap86)
Post #: 8683
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 6:24:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		4/7/44

Fun House: It was a (mostly) quiet day with plenty of good news.

1. Legaspi airfield jumped from 1.12 to 2.05 in a single day. It might reach level three in three more days. The base has plenty of supply. John sent two DDs to raid the port. They tangled with BB North Carolina TF, damaging one USN DD, darn it.
2. Catanduanes auto flipped to the Allies.
3. USN strike aircraft sortied in small numbers against those two DDs, scoring no hits. That small fry stuff is frustrating but inevitable, especially in the confusion early on.
4. Allied subs sank a PB, TK and xAK, the latter carrying troops.
5. It still seems like the weight of enemy naval power is to the south, but I have no tangible information about KB.
6. Death Star and the Herd will move just a bit closer to Samar to cover LST supply deliver to Guiuan.
7. 6th US Div. arrived at Naga and will join 43rd US Div. in attacking tomorrow, supported by some tanks (with others kept in reserve to pursue). Unless an enemy division shows up tonight, this base will fall, giving me 3(3) and 3(7) facilities to complement Legaspi.

There's no doubt that this isn't going to be a blitzkrieg campaign, barring an unlikely decisive carrier victory soon. John will reinforce Luzon strongly. That's good, as long as I buy the time needed to build bases strongly. In a week or two, Allied bases - primarily Naga and Legaspi - should be strong enough to allow my ships to dock pretty securely while DS and combat ships take a more offensive role. I have some good ideas but they have to wait - say ten days - until my two main bases are much stronger.

What will John do? Like John Dillworth, I think he has to attack. But he may not. He may be content to bring a massive army to Luzon while avoiding a risky naval battle. I'll be on the defensive for a long time, but if he doesn't control the seas, eventually the initiative will swing my way.

So, once again, I am reminded to avoid giving John a shot at a major carrier battle in close proximity to his big airfields.

The Pacific: A second small amphibious op will take place tomorrow or the day after. These are small steps towards straightening various LOCs.

Burma: The Allies are working into position to flank John's MLR. Heavy bombing of his troops continues.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 8684
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 6:43:33 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		P-47D25, P-38s, and P-51s can make the leap from Burma to Legaspi. F4U1-As can make the leap from Burma to Naga. That's a lot of good reserves that will start flying in tomorrow. I have more squadrons than I can use in Burma, so the short-legs will stay behind to fight the enemy while the long-legs head to the Philippines.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8685
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 7:37:03 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		This is certainly going to get interesting....John better get his act together quick, otherwise you're going to bury him.

I'm sure he has no idea exactly how much you've brought - You think in terms of armies, he thinks in terms of brigades.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8686
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 7:38:04 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		As far as Kamis go, he can only convert one unit per day. So it will be a few days before he has enough to make a try.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8687
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 7:44:05 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I think you need more engineers at Legaspi in order to be building both port and airfield...although the numbers get funky.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2885601

If you turn off the port building, it will go to level 3 AF in a single day from 2+5%. With the port building, it won't. A maximum of 794 engineer points can be had for an SPS 8/built to level 3 and the cost of level 2 to level 3 is 800. You're at about 40 out of 800, so you need another 760 engineer points... I'm not sure, but I think it splits in half? So half of your maximum 794


For the record, I don't really use this for planning - I just dump engineers and click build. I do it by feel. But given that Legaspi is only an SPS 1 for port, it will build that second level of port really slowly. I'd rather pump the airfield up to 4 or 5 first. You have plenty of naval support there, so don't worry about the port yet.

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 8688
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 8:03:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I shut off port building two turns back in order to concentrate on the airfield, for the reasons you point out (though your reasons are backed by information, mine by hunches).

Did you see my post yesterday about your Fun House guesses? You hit it right on the nose, including Aparri.

Aparri is lightly held at the moment, but I'm not going there until I win a carrier battle.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 8689
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 8:17:06 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		For the past five turns or so, CVE Manila Bay has been squared away in an ARD of proper tonnage.

Zero progress has been made on the three types of damage.

Why isn't my ARD doing anything?






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/19/2017 8:23:30 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8690
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 8:35:49 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I shut off port building two turns back in order to concentrate on the airfield, for the reasons you point out (though your reasons are backed by information, mine by hunches).

Did you see my post yesterday about your Fun House guesses? You hit it right on the nose, including Aparri.

Aparri is lightly held at the moment, but I'm not going there until I win a carrier battle.


I did, but I wasn't gonna toot this time.

Your later hints just confused me - I thought you were still heading for Luzon-ish, but perhaps for the Panay/Palawan area instead of Luzon itself.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8691
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 8:37:19 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

For the past five turns or so, CVE Manila Bay has been squared away in an ARD of proper tonnage.

Zero progress has been made on the three types of damage.

Why isn't my ARD doing anything?







At that level of damage, it takes longer to accrue the points to repair the damage. For some reason. I'm not sure of the details behind it, it's just what I've observed.

However, you should look at the "manage ships under repair" button like you would manage a shipyard full of ships. Looking in there, you should see the progress that is made each turn in terms of repair points and percentage to next point repaired.


I forget if you had just moved the ARD there. If so, was it still repairing 1-2 points of Sys damage first?

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 1/19/2017 8:38:04 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8692
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 8:47:42 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		ARD had 1% SYS when she arrived in port, but that was "fixed" before she loaded Manila Bay.

You've been generous with your time. Thanks.

Here's a screenshot of "Manage Shipyard." This is new territory for me. I don't believe I've ever clicked that button before.

Is the United Nations investigating the human rights implications in the amount of micromanagement this game requires?

I mean: good grief! There's way too much. It would be possible to spend eight hours on an Allied turn in 1944. Easily.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 8693
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 9:58:22 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		Yes, it has repaired 89% of a flotation damage point so far. It sometimes takes a few days to reduce the damage.
Notice that has an estimate of 120 days to repair the flotation damage, that is about 2 days per damage point.
You will still need to find a shipyard to repair the Sys and Engine damage after the ARD does its work.
An ARD will only repair flotation damage.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8694
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 10:07:17 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Isn't there something about ARs adding repair point to assist the ARD too? I know you have to be careful the ship is assigned to the ARD and not the AR, but if an AR can help it would be good to get one there.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 8695
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 10:48:16 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
Joined: 6/15/2002
Status: offline 		I think there was a bug where you had have to have an AR with the AVD to work, but that got fixed in a patch.
I wonder if there is a short delay before the ARD actually starts working? I have never really looked at
that.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8696
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 10:58:02 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Is the United Nations investigating the human rights implications in the amount of micromanagement this game requires?
Game requires????? Do you really want to know who is repairing your ship and the underlying working conditions? OSHA would have a stroke. just don't ask........

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8697
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/19/2017 11:57:48 PM   
Dirtnap86


Posts: 95
Joined: 10/3/2016
Status: offline 		I think there's a 1 day delay to simulate the ship being 'prepped and loaded' into an ARD. Things like the ARD being pumped out and the ship being shored up.

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 8698
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/20/2017 1:11:25 AM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		What aerial recon tactics are you conducting?

(in reply to Dirtnap86)
Post #: 8699
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/20/2017 1:30:21 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I think there was a bug where you had have to have an AR with the AVD to work, but that got fixed in a patch.
I wonder if there is a short delay before the ARD actually starts working? I have never really looked at
that.


There was a bug that was fixed in a more recent version (leading to the message CR quoted in the ops report about ARDs) that involved ARDs not really being used at all.


ARs do assist in repairs, but they can't repair all that much. They're extremely useful but limited in scope. They can repair up to 5 points of major damage, similar to a size 7 port, via the Repair Ship function. Or you can forgo assigning any ships to Repair Ship and they will instead add repair points to the port they're based at. I usually do the latter.

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 8700
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