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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 1:34:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		He might stand in the jungle hexes between Moulmein and Bangkok.

Once he's pushed back into clear terrain, he's at the mercy of the Allied airforce, if I can manage supply.

He may be focusing on stopping the flow of supply to Rangoon/Moulmein in hopes of limiting my air power. That's a good plan, and he can do it if he keeps carriers stationed nearby. But that's a trade I'll take.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 9421
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 2:33:12 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks for the feedback on the ops in the Burma area. Is it worth it to invade Port Blair, in order to protect the shipping route to Rangoon?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 9422
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 2:35:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		It would be worth it if I had six ships* available for duty.

*An exaggeration. I actually have more than six. But I don't have enough to carry invasion troops nor enough to provide CAP against the big airfield there. The Indian Ocean navy is exeedingly small, which is why drawing a Mini KB and several BBs has been a notable "accounting" achievement.

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 9423
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 2:44:50 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

which is why drawing a Mini KB and several BBs has been a notable "accounting" achievement.
Any of those short legged British subs available to cause mischief?

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

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Post #: 9424
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 2:50:30 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Perhaps 10, but most of the British subs are now based out of the DEI. The long, skinny nature of the Allied territory means there are lots of good sea lanes within range of even the short-legged subs.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 9425
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 3:38:05 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yes, of course! Why didn't I think of that? That's a possibliity, and not longterm either. I'll be moving up the Luzon peninsula pretty soon, and it makes sense to keep some damaged ships nearby rather than risking a long trip home through sub-patrolled waters.

I have four ARDs on map now - three pretty far forward and the fourth just leaving San Francisco. One of the ARDs has repaired damage on CVE Manila Bay from 66 down to 52. Once the ship's speed is up to about 7 or 8 knots, I'll remove her from the ARD and send her to a shipyard.


If all you're fixing on that ship is floatation, leave her in the ARD on critical. She'll repair faster than any shipyard but Seattle or Eastern USA. Unless you have other ships to fix, of course.

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Post #: 9426
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 3:53:05 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yes, of course! Why didn't I think of that? That's a possibliity, and not longterm either. I'll be moving up the Luzon peninsula pretty soon, and it makes sense to keep some damaged ships nearby rather than risking a long trip home through sub-patrolled waters.

I have four ARDs on map now - three pretty far forward and the fourth just leaving San Francisco. One of the ARDs has repaired damage on CVE Manila Bay from 66 down to 52. Once the ship's speed is up to about 7 or 8 knots, I'll remove her from the ARD and send her to a shipyard.


If all you're fixing on that ship is floatation, leave her in the ARD on critical. She'll repair faster than any shipyard but Seattle or Eastern USA. Unless you have other ships to fix, of course.


Seriously, all but 20 major engine damage could be repaired if you have the nec. ships close to the front lines assuming she has higher priority over other ships.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 9427
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 3:59:20 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Absent a grave emergency, I wouldn't think of using a seriously damaged capital ship - especially a fleet carrier - in hostile waters. I work pretty hard at getting them out of harm's way and, whenever possible, to an appropriate shipyard.

I know different players see this aspect of the game differently. Nearly every time my ships or subs encounter an enemy combat TF, there are multiple ships blowing smoke. So John is willing to, or forced to, use ships that have been rode hard. I see that early in the game, even.

I try not to ride my ships to hard, though sometimes it's necessary.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 9428
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 5:24:50 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Absent a grave emergency, I wouldn't think of using a seriously damaged capital ship - especially a fleet carrier - in hostile waters. I work pretty hard at getting them out of harm's way and, whenever possible, to an appropriate shipyard.

I know different players see this aspect of the game differently. Nearly every time my ships or subs encounter an enemy combat TF, there are multiple ships blowing smoke. So John is willing to, or forced to, use ships that have been rode hard. I see that early in the game, even.

I try not to ride my ships to hard, though sometimes it's necessary.


I think Tiemanj ran his ships really hard against me, and probably would have kept using her after basic repairs could be done....not 100% sure, but pretty sure.

As the Allies you operate a little on the loss avoidance mindset, whereas most JFB's that get late just want to get their VP back out of their ships before they go down.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 9429
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 5:58:15 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		While I try to avoid using ships blowing smoke, I am willing to lose PPs to withdrawal delays when I think it's worth it.

Different strokes for different folks.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 9430
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 6:00:27 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/22/44

Burma: The Allies may well take Moulmein tomorrow, as John is clearly pulling out.

Fun House: Loading of 11th East African Division is taking a bit of time, so the invasion of Panay is probably about five days away.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 9431
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 9:31:04 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Here's an oddity. I'm not looking for answers, just pointing it out.

Two TFs with ships due to withdraw departed Death Star and the Herd three days ago. One TF is fast xAP (slowest ship is 21 knots) and an SC. The second TF is CA Sussex and four DD (slowest ship is 32 knots). Both TFs started at the same place, both set to mission speed, and the xAP TF has traveled one hex farther.

That's weird.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 9432
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 10:23:03 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Here's an oddity. I'm not looking for answers, just pointing it out.

Two TFs with ships due to withdraw departed Death Star and the Herd three days ago. One TF is fast xAP (slowest ship is 21 knots) and an SC. The second TF is CA Sussex and four DD (slowest ship is 32 knots). Both TFs started at the same place, both set to mission speed, and the xAP TF has traveled one hex farther.

That's weird.


Maybe the DD's had to refuel?

_____________________________


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Post #: 9433
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 10:30:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		No, fuel levels were good in both TFs.

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 9434
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/6/2017 11:21:29 PM   
BillBrown


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Status: offline 		Do not look at maximum speed, look at cruise speed, that is what they are using when at mission speed and just moving.

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Post #: 9435
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/7/2017 3:47:39 AM   
crsutton


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Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		For most merchant ships and liners mission speed is actually full speed or very close to it. That is not the case with warships. Commercial ships are are not designed for slow cruising speed but to operate at the top speed that they are capable of. Any merchant ship that I worked on ran at 90 to 95% boiler capacity at all times. Time is money. So, a fast liner might cruise at 24 knots while warships will cruise at around 18 knots or so. This may be what happened here. After all, the trans-Atlantic crossing record for a big ship is held by the SS United States-not a warship.

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Post #: 9436
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/7/2017 8:40:08 AM   
JohnDillworth


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Joined: 3/19/2009
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quote:

SS United States
she was given engines and HP equivalent to a Forrestal-class aircraft carrier and was built for quick conversion to a fast troop carrier. She was a warship underneath

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 9437
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/7/2017 2:31:39 PM   
Panther Bait


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Status: offline 		Regardless of how the SS United States was intended to be used, crsutton is 100% correct that the economics of merchant ships (certainly xAP or xAK, and probably even AP/AK/APA/AKA) don't support the concept of the cruise speed/full speed dynamic. Warships only have it because much of the time they don't need to be moving at full speed and full speed for a warship is very inefficient. On the opposite side of things, a merchant ship basically never has a need to go 1/2 speed. You're cruising or you're stopped, anything else is a waste of fuel and money.

Mike


_____________________________

When you shoot at a destroyer and miss, it's like hit'in a wildcat in the ass with a banjo.

Nathan Dogan, USS Gurnard

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 9438
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/7/2017 2:36:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I never thought about it that way. I'm learning new things.

On the issue of the speed of those two TFs, it is the difference between mission speed and cruise speed that resulted in the merchants outpacing the cruiser. The CA/DD TF with the 32-knot mission speed has 15-knot cruise speed. The xAP TF with the 22-knot mission speed has 22-knot cruise speed.

CA Sussex is due for withdrawal in two days. By then she'll be clearing the Torres Strait. Soon thereafter I'll set her to full speed for the run to Sydney.



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/7/2017 2:37:24 PM >

(in reply to Panther Bait)
Post #: 9439
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/7/2017 3:17:26 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

For most merchant ships and liners mission speed is actually full speed or very close to it. That is not the case with warships. Commercial ships are are not designed for slow cruising speed but to operate at the top speed that they are capable of. Any merchant ship that I worked on ran at 90 to 95% boiler capacity at all times. Time is money. So, a fast liner might cruise at 24 knots while warships will cruise at around 18 knots or so. This may be what happened here. After all, the trans-Atlantic crossing record for a big ship is held by the SS United States-not a warship.


Except for the SC that was with her, which should have had a cruise speed of 15 still.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 9440
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/7/2017 3:48:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		She did. [Some people know way to much about the engine that drives every aspect of this game, drat them!]

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 9441
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/7/2017 5:06:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/23/44

Fun House: The Roxas (Panay) invasion TF departs Talaud tonight to join Death Star and the Herd. I'll hold my breath a bit because the journey north holds the prospect of enemy subs (it's where John struck the last time DS moved this way). And there's a chance he might spring KB. I don't think he will, but there's a chance.

Burma: The Allies take Moulmein and will advance in strength east.

John is reinforcing Hainan Island heavily - 2nd Div. plus a mixed brigade bound for Kiungshan. I would've taken Hainan if I could've gotten it on the cheap...but I might also target it later simply to go after vulnerable enemy units. Hainan is too "bite-sized" for John to effectively defend. He may regret defending it in strength, but for now every unit he sends there is a unit not present for a Peep Show target.

John is giving a lot of attention to the Bay of Bengal and Indochina now. He can see how close his position is to collapse and how close the Allies are to joining forces, east and west. He's right about this...but I'd like him to remain focused just so for the time being.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/7/2017 5:07:25 PM >

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Post #: 9442
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/8/2017 8:21:34 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/24/44

Fun House: Puerto Princesa fell to 6th Australian Div. today. That's a pretty big deal since it "closes the deal" on a botched invasion (I used the wrong unit). That unit will extinguish the remnant IJA units and soon, when ships and Death Star are available, invade Miri.

Death Star will be back in the Legaspi vicinity in two days. D-Day at Roxas in three turns.

Burma: Allied stack advancing east from Moulmein, chasing retreating IJA stack. Enemy combat TF is still out here. Mini KB may or may not be.




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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 9443
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/8/2017 8:39:06 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Can you bomb those tanks at Vinh with some 4E from Rangoon or Mandalay? Looks like it's in P-38 range and the B-24s could get there.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 9444
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/8/2017 8:48:28 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I have minimal supply at my snazzy new forward bases Rangoon, Moulmein, Pegu, Toungoo, etc. - not enough to support 4EB attacks. I did set one long-range RAF Liberator squadron to hit the tanks from Akyab. We'll see if they fly.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 9445
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/8/2017 8:53:52 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I have minimal supply at my snazzy new forward bases Rangoon, Moulmein, Pegu, Toungoo, etc. - not enough to support 4EB attacks. I did set one long-range RAF Liberator squadron to hit the tanks from Akyab. We'll see if they fly.

I love those LR Coastal Command Libs. In my Allied game they were great for harassment well behind the lines.

Your other option could be a surprise Fletcher incursion here. It's deep but Sqz just sent some well into Indian country in my game and in spite of DBs on strike, the Allied flak was so good none were even scratched.

Also, Coronados were flown as bombers on serval missions in the war. One notable night raid took place on Wake with Tang on lifeguard duty and Dick O'Kane watching proceedings. He writes a great description of the 4E beast flying boats roaring out of the night and setting what looked like the whole island on fire.

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/8/2017 8:57:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 9446
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/8/2017 9:03:09 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		A recent Fletcher raid sank a bunch of tankers at Tarakan over two days and triggered enemy dive bombers. As with your experience, flank was heavy and none of the Japanese strike aircraft scored a hit.

Ultimately I have little say in whether I hold Vinh. It's too far out with too little supply to draw from (my Dakotas are flying from new bases that have little supply). So John will retake the base unless he's woefully negligent.

I'm okay with that because he'll then have to turn his attention to a Chinese occupied hex on the Vietnam border that interdicts the road. He'll also have to deal with the Chindits at Luangprabang, which control another fuel line. This gives him useful things to occupy his units and attention for awhile, which is the secret behind-the-scenes objective.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 9447
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/8/2017 10:59:04 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

A recent Fletcher raid sank a bunch of tankers at Tarakan over two days and triggered enemy dive bombers. As with your experience, flank was heavy and none of the Japanese strike aircraft scored a hit.

Ultimately I have little say in whether I hold Vinh. It's too far out with too little supply to draw from (my Dakotas are flying from new bases that have little supply). So John will retake the base unless he's woefully negligent.

I'm okay with that because he'll then have to turn his attention to a Chinese occupied hex on the Vietnam border that interdicts the road. He'll also have to deal with the Chindits at Luangprabang, which control another fuel line. This gives him useful things to occupy his units and attention for awhile, which is the secret behind-the-scenes objective.


And he won't have any forts built up .

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 9448
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/9/2017 12:51:34 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		5/25/44

Busy day in Burma and the Philippines AAO. See map for details.




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Post #: 9449
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 3/9/2017 1:40:01 AM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
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Status: offline 		On average does DS and the Herd run a high DL?

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Post #: 9450
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