RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 3:14:49 AM

Lovejoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy
Would the game even be able to handle the sheer number of planes involved in such a massive raid? IIRC Greyjoy's AAR against Radar had some problems with that, but its been a while since I read it (great stuff for a person who wants to learn the game)

Air model has been fixed since then.

Much obliged to you!

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 10171

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 4:10:22 AM

Canoerebel

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7/13/44

Indochina: The Allies are pushing forward hard against an enemy mostly giving ground. It's like Patton in France in August '44. He's scooting forward, but fuel is running low.

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(in reply to Lovejoy)

Post #: 10172

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 4:24:57 AM

Canoerebel

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7/13/44

DEI and the Pacific: My staff, consisting partly of a Lowpe-authored thread about Japanese late-game strategies, tells me that I had better watch out for more raiding efforts.

Accordingly, I'm posting more pickets and patrols in likely areas.

John is bound to raid into the Ceram Sea one of these days. He sees all this shipping; he's tried to stop it by plane and by sub, with minimal success. He sent Mini KB this way a month back, without luck. He's wanted this forever and he'll work an angle.

Meanwhile, SoPac KB is moving just west of the Marshalls and Gilberts.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10173

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 4:35:49 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

7/13/44

Indochina: The Allies are pushing forward hard against an enemy mostly giving ground. It's like Patton in France in August '44. He's scooting forward, but fuel is running low.

Just put a red ball on each side of your tankers and warn everyone to get out of the way!

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10174

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 4:39:48 AM

Canoerebel

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7/13/44

Fun House: Allied attack at Vigan tomorrow should squeeze tighter Japanese pocket in northern Luzon.

A key attack to take place at Bataan tomorrow. It'll determine how and when Peep Show gets underway. Details on map.

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(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 10175

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 9:59:26 AM

Encircled

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Part of me wants you to launch a 1000 bomber night raid just to see the other AAR thread count explode through the stratosphere.

_____________________________

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Post #: 10176

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 2:11:49 PM

Smoky Stoker

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Meanwhile, in history...

1 May 1888 - Confederate Brigadier General William Wirt Adams and newspaper editor John H. Martin shoot each other dead in a street encounter in Jackson, Mississippi.

_____________________________

"Leveling large cities has a tendency to alienate the affections of the inhabitants and does not create an atmosphere of international good will after the war." -Rear Admiral Daniel V. Gallery

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 10177

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 3:07:35 PM

Canoerebel

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That's interesting. Here's a few other random notes about Civil War soldiers or their offspring long after the war:

1. CSA Brigadier General Archibald Gracie, the scion of the New York City Macy family, led his brigade at Chickamauga. Nearly 50 years later, his son wrote a book The Truth About Chickamauga. While celebrating the publication of that book by taking a trip to Europe, he returned aboard the Titanic. He survived the sinking in proximity to his NYC friends, Isidor and Ida Strauss, who didn't survive. Gracie died just a few months later.

2. CSA cavalry general John Imboden settled in southwestern Virginia, where he developing mining and railroad interests in the mountains on the Tennessee line.

3. In my game with John III, Lt. General Simon Bolivar Buckner just arrived in game in command of 10th Army. He was probably the highest ranking American general killed by enemy fire in combat during the war (there is some question about this, due to date of rank and how a couple of other officers were killed). I noted that his ratings aren't particularly impressive. His dad was a brigadier (major?) general in the CSA army.

4. US brigadier general John Wilder served with distinction at Chickamauga in command of his "Lightning Brigade" of mounted infantry. After the war, he became the mayor of Chattanooga.

5. Ohio colonel Moses Walker was removed from command just before the Battle of Chickamauga due to a relatively minor infraction. Command of the brigade fell to John Connell. The brigade was routed on the morning of the second day of the battle, Connell leading fragments from the battlefield in disarray. Moses Walker, under no duty to be in harm's way due to his arrest, rallied elements of the brigade at Snodgrass Hill, where they fought tenacious in the final grim events of that battle. Walker was wounded three times while on horseback, exposed to enemy fire. All the monuments on Snodgrass Hill refer to the command as "Connell's Brigade," even though Connell wasn't there and even though the brigade was actually Walker's. His name was cleared after the battle. After the war he became a justice of the Texas Supreme Court.

(in reply to Smoky Stoker)

Post #: 10178

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 3:39:47 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smoky Stoker

Meanwhile, in history...

1 May 1888 - Confederate Brigadier General William Wirt Adams and newspaper editor John H. Martin shoot each other dead in a street encounter in Jackson, Mississippi.

More of the story:

Upon conclusion of the Civil War, Adams resided in Vicksburg and Jackson, Mississippi. In 1880, he was appointed as a Mississippi state revenue agent.[4] He resigned in 1885 and took the position of postmaster in Jackson by appointment of President Grover Cleveland.[4]

In 1888, Adams was made the target of a number of attacks by the editor of the New Mississippian, John H. Martin, a staunch prohibitionist and reform advocate. Adams was rebuked by Martin for, among other things, his role as a character witness in the murder trial of Colonel Jones S. Hamilton, who was ultimately acquitted for killing Roderick D. Gambrell, another newspaper editor and ally of Martin's, in a street duel.[5] On May 1, 1888, Adams, walking on President Street in Jackson with another man, encountered Martin coming from the opposite direction near the corner of Amite Street. After a brief verbal altercation, both men pulled pistols on each other, Adams firing three times and Martin six. Both died almost immediately with Adams shot through the heart and Martin in the chest, leg, and hand.[6][7] He was buried in Greenwood Cemetery in Jackson.[8]

(in reply to Smoky Stoker)

Post #: 10179

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 5:51:18 PM

Bearcat2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's interesting. Here's a few other random notes about Civil War soldiers or their offspring long after the war:

3. In my game with John III, Lt. General Simon Bolivar Buckner just arrived in game in command of 10th Army. He was probably the highest ranking American general killed by enemy fire in combat during the war (there is some question about this, due to date of rank and how a couple of other officers were killed). I noted that his ratings aren't particularly impressive. His dad was a brigadier (major?) general in the CSA army.

.

Simon Bolivar Buckner[Sr] ended up a Lt General in the Confederacy, he had the dubious distinction of being the first Condeferate General to surrender an army to the Union[Ft Donelson], and also the last [June 2, 1865 -Dist of Arkansas& West Louisiana] at New Orleans

_____________________________

"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10180

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 5:59:02 PM

MakeeLearn

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"Hello, boneheads. This is your favorite enemy, Orphan Annie. How are all you orphans of the Pacific? Are you enjoying yourselves while your wives and sweethearts are running around with the 4Fs in the States? How do you feel now when all your ships have been sunk by the Japanese Navy? How will you get home? Missing any B29s? Maybe Imperial Japanese Army Air Service help you look for them."

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< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 5/1/2017 6:02:15 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 10181

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 6:02:05 PM

Canoerebel

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[Avoiding the topic of the Superfort slaughter of recent days...]

Here's a Civil War trivia question that nobody should know the answer to: Who was the commanding officer for the surrender of the last Confederate troops in Georgia.

Hints: the surrender took place at Kingston, in NW Georgia, not far from this general's home; and he at one point succeeded Hood as commanding officer of Hood's Texas Brigade (which wasn't entirely Texan, I should add).

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 10182

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 6:10:24 PM

MakeeLearn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

[Avoiding the topic of the Superfort slaughter of recent days...]

Here's a Civil War trivia question that nobody should know the answer to: Who was the commanding officer for the surrender of the last Confederate troops in Georgia.

Hints: the surrender took place at Kingston, in NW Georgia, not far from this general's home; and he at one point succeeded Hood as commanding officer of Hood's Texas Brigade (which wasn't entirely Texan, I should add).

quote:

surrender took place at Kingston, in NW Georgia, not far from this general's hom

Wofford, was he the peach farmer before the war that was one of the first to sell Georgia peaches in New York City ( Lee's Lieutenants)

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10183

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 6:15:36 PM

Canoerebel

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Dang, how'd you know that?

William Tatum Wofford was a lawyer or judge before the war, but many professionals also were planters, so the peach thing could well be true. He also dabbled in education and politics. I think he was a pretty stout man, from what I've been able to gather. His regiment was the 18th Georgia, which for a time was part of Hood's Texas Brigade. He stepped in for Hood at Antietam, after Hood was giving divisional command.

Wofford is buried in the Cassville Cemetery near Cartersville, Georgia. Federal troops burned Cassville during the war and it was never really rebuilt.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 10184

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 6:40:16 PM

MakeeLearn

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Ive been reading at night - Lee's Lieutenants II Cedar Mountain to Chancellorsville - for the umpteen time.

He had Hood's Brigade at Sharpsburg, I believe.

I had a grandmother born in 1900 and lived till 1989. She fueled my desire for Confederate history. She often referred to the 4th of July as "That Yankee holiday."

She actually talked with Confederate veterans.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 5/1/2017 6:45:22 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10185

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/1/2017 10:34:18 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

1. CSA Brigadier General Archibald Gracie, the scion of the New York City Macy family, led his brigade at Chickamauga. Nearly 50 years later, his son wrote a book The Truth About Chickamauga. While celebrating the publication of that book by taking a trip to Europe, he returned aboard the Titanic. He survived the sinking in proximity to his NYC friends, Isidor and Ida Strauss, who didn't survive. Gracie died just a few months later.

Well it took a bit but Brigadier General Archibald Gracie didn't ring a bell but Isidor and Ida Strauss did. I can't find the photos right now but I have visited the Generals grave on a couple of occasions. He, his son and Isidor and Ida Strauss are all buried in Woodlawn cemetery in the Bronx. I occasionally take walks through the cemetery when I am in the area. The Isidor and Ida Strauss tomb is one of the most impressive in a cemetery that hosts names like Macy, Gould, Woolworth, PULITZER, Berlin , Melville (yeah, that one), FARRAGUT and at least a half dozen medal of honer recipients. Heck, Gracie is only the 2nd highest ranking CSA general buried there, GENERAL MANSFIELD LOVELL, holds that honor. General Gracies grave is a modest affair, the limestone much worn by acid rain to the point where it is almost unreadable. The first time I saw it was after Hurricanes Irene and Sandy had knocked over many trees and older tomb stones. The stone has since been uprighted. I am up that way a few days this month. If I happen to visit I will pay your solemn respects and send a photo

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10186

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 12:26:43 AM

Canoerebel

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That sounds like a John Dillworth kind of day. Thoughtful, interesting, inquisitive.

Your post prompted me to look up General Lovell and read about him. I didn't realize he was blamed for losing New Orleans. Interesting and accomplished man. Loses his rice plantation at Savannah to a tidal wave? Wow!

His Civil War travails reminded me of Pemberton after Vicksburg.

_____________________________

"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper�s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 10187

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 3:47:43 AM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

That's interesting. Here's a few other random notes about Civil War soldiers or their offspring long after the war:

James Longstreet was Lee's right-hand man after Stonewall Jackson's death, and arguably the best Southern corps commander of the war. (Though he generally did poorly in independent commands.) Afterwards, however, he set up in business in New Orleans, and was successful foir a while until he publicly advocated cooperation in Reconstruction, joing the Republican Party. He was with the pro-Northern police forces when thousands of armed white-supremecist vigilantes attacked the police, taking him captive for several days while they attempted to install their candidate for Governor. This affair, known as the "Battle of Liberty Place", was memorialized by a monument in New Orleans, which has just been taken down. (The workmen wore bullet-proof vests and masks because of death threats.)

I know of no statues to Longstreet in the South.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10188

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 4:04:09 AM

Canoerebel

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Longstreet is highly regarded in the South today.

He was related to General Grant by marriage. Quite a few southerners joined the Republican party for various reasons and for various lengths of time. That number included Georgia's Civil War governor, Joseph E. Brown. The politics of the time was confusing (isn't it always) and is poorly understood today, except a few academics and a handful of really smart people who love historic esoterica.

Longstreet grew up in Georgia and returned to Gainesville at some point after the war. He operated a hotel there.

My two favorite Longstreet stories: (1) After the war, despondent over the lives lost in a futile effort, he climbed Mount Yonah to voice his grief loudly (I read this many years ago and have never again been able to find the source, a fact which I've mentioned in here before, leading kind Forumites to search for it too); (2) disliked by some for his Republican Party affiliation after the war, and for his seeming criticisms of Lee's decisions at Gettysburg, Longstreet wasn't particularly welcome at veteran's events; but one day in the late 1880s ('90s?), he walked into a hall crowded with Veterans meeting in reunion; there was quiet...and then they rose as one and broke into applause and cheers for Lee's Old Warhorse.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)

Post #: 10189

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 4:22:28 AM

Canoerebel

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A Google search turned up this little tidbit in the Goree Papers at LSU, referring to Longstreet and some of his officers traveling home after Appomattox:

"The party detoured sixteen miles off their course in Georgia in order to visit William Longstreet, brother of the general, and to permit their horses to rest. They were entertained at the home of the general�s brother where they remained for more than two weeks before resuming their journey. During their stay in Georgia, they enjoyed excursions to the top of Mt. Yonah and to Tellula [sic] Falls. While visiting his brother, General Longstreet received a message that General Toombs wished to see him. Goree relates that Toombs and his friends �became afraid to venture out, and we did not see them.�

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 5/2/2017 4:23:04 AM >

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Post #: 10190

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 4:43:24 AM

Canoerebel

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No turn from John today, as he's fallen into one of his occasional forget-to-communicate lapses. He requested a turn for last evening, but I didn't hear from him til this morning, when he implied a turn would come this afternoon...and that was the last I've heard from him.

To close out the day, here's a screenshot I'd offer as an exhibit in a presentation about why AE (and, more specifically, this Mod) is a game, not a simulation.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 10191

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 12:42:28 PM

MakeeLearn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

A Google search turned up this little tidbit in the Goree Papers at LSU, referring to Longstreet and some of his officers traveling home after Appomattox:

"The party detoured sixteen miles off their course in Georgia in order to visit William Longstreet, brother of the general, and to permit their horses to rest. They were entertained at the home of the general�s brother where they remained for more than two weeks before resuming their journey. During their stay in Georgia, they enjoyed excursions to the top of Mt. Yonah and to Tellula [sic] Falls. While visiting his brother, General Longstreet received a message that General Toombs wished to see him. Goree relates that Toombs and his friends �became afraid to venture out, and we did not see them.�

After having arrested Toombs and then having him released Longstreet wrote : "I had no more trouble with Toombs. We were ever afterwards warm personal friends." In 1862 Toombs had withdrew troops and left a road open in which Federal Calvary passed through.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 5/2/2017 12:51:02 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10192

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 12:52:08 PM

Canoerebel

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All this prompted me to read Goree's diary entries for the entire trip from western North Carolina through eastern Alabama.

I know almost exactly the route they traveled through Georgia: Clarkesville, Gainesville, Cumming, Marietta, Van Wert. Some of the landmarks mentioned are still prominent today. He writes of crossing the Chattahoochee at Brown's Ferry. I crossed the Chattahoochee a few weeks ago at the same place, now known as Brown's Bridge.

In the diary excerpt quoted above, Goree writes of Toombs being "afraid of venturing out." That was because Toombs was a fugitive from arrest. He ended up in France, always proclaiming himself "an unreconstructed rebel." While there, he said he spent about "an acre a day" of his Georgia lands to exist. He eventually returned to Georgia.

Toombs was a frothing secessionist, hard drinker, and slave owner. It was from the perspective of people like him that Gone With the Wind was told.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 10193

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 1:07:18 PM

MakeeLearn

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During the war Toombs often wrote his wife about "his enemies" trying to drive him from the army.

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Post #: 10194

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 2:18:51 PM

paullus99

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John appears to be satisfied with "nibbling around the edges." I am developing the feeling that he won't commit the KB or any significant surface assets anywhere we he can't at least coordinate with Kamikazes.

Expect a fight for Formosa, but I can't seen anywhere else where he's going to stand outside of the HIs.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 10195

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 2:36:05 PM

Canoerebel

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I agree, paullus.

From a momentum and positioning standpoint, the Allies are in very good position for July 1944. When you consider the mod, the aircraft production disparities, and the House Rule that prohibited strategic bombing until 1944, even more so.

From a Victory Point standpoint, which is the bedrock underlying the game, it's a closer thing. With such little experience to build on, I'm not sure if I'm ahead, behind, or about even with where I should be. How soon can I reach that 2:1 threshold? Despite the uncertainty arising from my inexperience with measuring the contest from a VP-standpoint, I'm optimistic. The Allied position is so strong that it should get easier and easier to "harvest" points from enemy ships, planes, men and industry. We'll see.

From reading a Lowpe-generated thread in the War Room (good stuff there), I better understand the Japanese viewpoint on conserving forces and efficiently raiding for VPs.

That makes perfect sense from a gaming standpoint at a cost of separating the game from it's simulation aspects. In 1944, the Japanese would've banzaiid a dozen times by this point. But this is me versus him, and John III is hanging back like Joe Johnston in North Georgia in '64. That's probably the right play for the game but bears no resemblance to the Bushido Code.

(in reply to paullus99)

Post #: 10196

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 3:04:30 PM

paullus99

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I'm sure, if John had maintained at least something close to carrier-parity, that he would have counter-attacked at this point.

One thing this game has taught me, from the Japanese perspective, is that you have to look at 1944 - 1945 as not "winning" but instead, how to lose in the most efficient manner.

This means husbanding your resources, defending only where you need to & keeping the allies from Strategic Bombing range as long as possible.

John likes to win, win, win. I don't believe he's ever considered himself in a position where he "has" to lose. I can't necessarily say that the Battle of Wake lost John the game, but based on the fact that he continued to defend so far forward, it certainly didn't help.

From a VP-perspective, you're not in the best position, but then again, you have plenty of time, whereas John does not.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 10197

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 4:25:28 PM

Simonsez

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Regarding VP levels.

Based upon these assumptions, is there a way to augment your current trajectory with side actions aimed at increasing your VP haul on the cheap? If he is pulling out of areas or no longer reinforcing, should efforts be made to wedge John out of certain bases? You've mentioned that you might back fill bases along your SLOC as time permits, perhaps after Formosa or in conjunction with Formosa, those efforts should be expedited? John is now massing in front of you and vacating locations in your rear areas. Is there any capacity to force the issue in the DEI or New Guinea without using a major slice of the Death Star? Do you have deep LB air pools that can support any island hopping in these back areas?

_____________________________

Simonsez

It's a trap!

(in reply to paullus99)

Post #: 10198

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 4:48:14 PM

Canoerebel

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There is danger in trying to "pick off" enemy bases in the interior or on the margins, as John still has Mini KB and airfields. He likes waiting for opportunities just like that. If I try to slip up on a major base with a big TF or two, he can hammer it and pick up easy VPs.

In a way, I did just that with Ternate. It's close to a major Allied airfield, so I relied on LRCAP for security. I got in without difficulty, had to pull out when enemy carriers approached, and later suffered the loss of a handful of low-value ships (mostly xAK with an xAP or two). No big deal, but he picks up some cheap VPs at no real cost to him.

There will come a time when I can advance in this region in strength, with carriers to provide cover. My troops are prepping or are fully prepped. They'll be ready to hit the sexy bases when the time comes, and the jobs shouldn't be real hard, since the Allies will dominate the skies and the seas. And I don't think it matters from a VP standpoint whether that happens now, in October or in December. So I'll bide my time and focus mostly on Formosa until the formula is right to look elsewhere.

The exception is in SEAC, where Allied armies are advancing in good order, threatening high-value enemy bases, and will eventually move on Singers or up towards China. At the moment, enemy resistance seems to be modest. I'm trying to figure out if John ultimately plans to defend mainly in Malaya and in northern Indochina and China.

(in reply to Simonsez)

Post #: 10199

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 5/2/2017 4:51:19 PM

Canoerebel

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7/14/44

Indochina: A promising day, as a small Allied army brushes aside resistance NW of Bangkok. Now the Allies will advance on that city from the NW and NE. Also, Chindits take another vacant interior base. It's looking a bit like John won't concentrate his armies to defend here, but rather is buying time to retire to Malaya or northern Indochina or both.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)

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